Just kidding, but can't have you derailing our interesting and totally unique conversation about why Rift is just like WOW. (wait, isn't there a thread for that?)
Back to the OP, which was flamebait if I ever saw some, it just seemed to me that article was written by fans, for fans, w/o any real concession to the elements that make it feel like so many games that came before it.
I'll save the arguments for another thread about how I feel a fantasy MMORPG can be built that plays considerably different from the current crop of MMORPGs though...that would be totally off topic in this case.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you have been paying attention to MMO releases in the past few years, most of the "blockbuster" releases shouldn't have left beta. For once we have a game that is actually ready to leave beta, where there are no gamebreaking bugs in it and it doesn't feel like the companies just want to get the damn thing out the door to see some profit.
For once instead of people playing the game post-release and saying they feel like they are playing a beta, people in the actual beta are saying they feel like they are playing a game ready for release.
It actually has some polish on it and people feel like the devs give a damn.
Is it more of the same?
Yes.
Is your whining about it being more of the same going to change anything in regards to this game?
it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.
and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.
I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.
Let's be fair, in general the MMORPG theme that seems to be running is that people appear to prefer polish over almost any other quality in a game.
It's not one or the other, both are achievable in the same game at the same time.
Trion's trick has been to convince their fans that it has to be one or the other.
In so doing they are promoting a game on the basis of 'it works', and that just isnt enough on it's own to make we want to buy it. I just think we should be asking for more then boring derivative cut'n'paste thinking in games that feel that they have been designed by accountants.
I have to agree with this. If the best thing a game can say about itself is that "it works" then the devs really need to try harder next time they decide to make a game. Having a game "that works" should be a given. If developers made a game and it doesn't work then they need to try again. If, for some reason the can't make a game that works no matter what, then they should go back to school and learn how. It is better to try and be different and fail than to succeed by just making a game "that works".
yes, exactly.
I believe in this too but have you seen whats been coming out of the MMO market as of late? Buggy, crappy, unfinished games...Sometimes to take 1 step forward you gotta take 2 steps back. Is RIFT a clone...yeah probably, but unlike most of the games coming out now a days, what it clones it does right and is mostly playable...I mean even if you hate the game you got to give it credit in that, unlike most of whats come out, it atleast is a finished product. Plus it improves on items it clones...isn't that how WoW became the juggernaut it is today? If it was up to me all games would have followed the Ultima Online model instead of the EQ model but with every freakin IP in exsitence becoming an MMO now, finding a game that actually comes out finished is more rare than a game with "new and improved ideas".
I have to agree that, at this stage of MMORPGs, it's pretty hard to release either a truly innovative MMO or at least an MMO with truly innovative features. At least in the fantasy genre.
I can think of handfuls of Scifi MMOs released in the past few years that were highly innovative, they are just highly risky. EVE comes to mind, as does Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. NCSoft can go to hell, btw.
it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.
and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.
I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.
you might find this hard to believe, but some of us actually like the 'high fantasy' setting.
if Rift and Xyson were both novels, i would read Rift. It's all about preference. Xyson might be awesome, but it will appeal to people who want that post-apocolyptic setting. I only play video games for my 'fantasy fix'. if all fantasy rpgs just disappeared, i would be finished with games, and move on to more productive hobbies that i have.
it's funny how you have to insult gamers 'taste' for what kind of worlds we enjoy. i DO appreciate a company that does new innovating things, but i also don't get very interested in non-magic based games. maybe i'm wrong, and there is an option to practice black magic in Xyson. it just didn't seem to offer that, or fit into the theme.
i wish an amazing sci-fi MMO would come out, so all these poor gamers suffering in the fantasy setting can quit complaining about it, and get out of a world they don't even like. so many mmoer's play fantasy setting games (WoW) but hate the elements of fantasy. so please, if fantasy is not for you, don't play a fantasy game. it sounds like common sense to me. but it's ok. i have seen many of your post in the past, and do not expect common sense in return. what i do expect, is for you to hypocritically claim that i am being insulting, as if the tones of everything you say does not drip with contempt.
I have to agree that, at this stage of MMORPGs, it's pretty hard to release either a truly innovative MMO or at least an MMO with truly innovative features. At least in the fantasy genre.
I can think of handfuls of Scifi MMOs released in the past few years that were highly innovative, they are just highly risky. EVE comes to mind, as does Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. NCSoft can go to hell, btw.
it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.
and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.
I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.
While that may well be true(jarring most people out of their comfort zones usually does not make business sense), thats simply the reality that exists. Since that IS the reality, and given that these projects take millions and millions(of other peoples money) to create, they tend to be rather conservative in dealing with unproven dynamics, and unconventional approaches.
There is also the point that the established dynamics have a rather long track record of what works, and what doesn't. That makes polishing them MUCH easier. Its a known fact that surface attracts people, but that polish and depth keep them. The history of MMO's(what there is of it at this point) is filled with examples of what happens to games that lack polish.
Calling Rift WoWHammer --> Rift is not worth trying, 'cause you've played it before; Rifts = PQs so nothing to see here
A lot of people tried Rift and were pleasantly surprised. Hell, they are having FUN. So they feel that the WoWHammer label doesn't give Rift credit where credit is due, but more "annoyingly" discorages people from trying the game.
I agree with the article, while you have a chance to trial via the beta, ignore the clone comments and you may find an MMO you enjoy, even love. And it will cost you nothing to find out.
The endless arguments about originality - apart from making my eyes bleed - are absolutely pointless.
As I said....before MASSIVELY deleted my post on their web site....that "article" looked like it was written by the TRION WORLDS marketing department.If you're going to post an opinon...then the reader has a right to know that is just that...an opinion.Pieces should clearly state that you are about to read one writers OPINION.To do anything less is dishonest and a diservice to those who expected something other than what the piece perported to be.
Originally posted by ShadanwolfAs I said....before MASSIVELY deleted my post on their web site....that "article" looked like it was written by the TRION WORLDS marketing department.If you're going to post an opinon...then the reader has a right to know that is just that...an opinion.Pieces should clearly state that you are about to read one writers OPINION.To do anything less is dishonest and a diservice to those who expected something other than what the piece perported to be.
.. because it's typically understood by the readers of the articles that this is the opinion of the writer.
That's why at the top it says "by Karen Bryan."
Originally posted by Treekodar
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick They're also much more varied than public quests
Really? I guess I've been playing an entirely different game then.
I believe that statement is saying that, unlike WAR's PQs, it isn't the same exact scripted event in the same exact location, repeating over and over ad infinitum.
The game is good, but it's very status-quo. There's really no denying that. The only reason people are so impressed is because we haven't gotten a good game that's actually polished in a long time.
As I said....before MASSIVELY deleted my post on their web site....that "article" looked like it was written by the TRION WORLDS marketing department.If you're going to post an opinon...then the reader has a right to know that is just that...an opinion.Pieces should clearly state that you are about to read one writers OPINION.To do anything less is dishonest and a diservice to those who expected something other than what the piece perported to be.
Why should it need to be labled as an opinion? That should be the natural assumption one makes in the first place. Opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone has one, and they all collect lint. ^^ From what I've seen Rift does look like its going to be fun. (This *Opinion* has been brought to you by Wraithone). ^^
It's not the end of the world to admit that Rift is an almost wholesale rip-off of Warhammer Online. It's a good game, but just accept that it does nothing new, and admit that you just want to play another rehashed game with new scenery. There's nothing wrong with that. If you like it, then that's all that matters. Trying to deny the obvious though... well, it makes you look silly.
Ok, Rift is just Warhammer Online with New Scenery. There, now are you happy?
Seriously Guys and Gals, I don't want, or need, a totally new game, with all new features from top to bottom. I want a game that works. And I want to be able to play and enjoy it wihout being nerfed every time I turn around. Past that I'd like a reasonable level of customer support, for when issues do crop up.
This has nothing to do with "not being able to get my head around something new...". I can accept new ideas. But not just from any company. I don't trust most companies enough not to screw it up. I've been there and done that... And it didn't work for the other guys. So I have no expectation Trion Worlds, a company I had never heard of until recently, is going to be able to do more than "take a proven formula", add a couple of new ideas, and get it to work.
Its ok with me that don't like Rift. But its disfunctional to try and convince everyone else to hate it as well. You aren't going to force Trion to do what you want. And you cannot control what other players do either. So give it a rest, and go find something else to do.
People say: WoW Clone, WAR Clone, LotRO Clone, Tibia Clone...etc, etc.
But Soul System in Rift is a totally new thing, hard to balance but with infinite possibilities.
Sry for my english, I'm Eth.
No, there are not infinite possibilities.
Well... almost.
Comes out to like 336, give or take a few combinations, per soul. This isn't including the PVP souls.
This is also just combinations of 3 different souls, and not the allocations of the points.
Take an Assassin/Nightblade/Riftstalker for instance. A 51/10/5 would perform vastly different from a 31/31/4, the first being a melee dps specialist with good stealth capabilities; the second being solid at melee dps but having more ranged alternatives. Then go 5/10/51 and you're a tank :P
So for every combination of three souls out of those 336, there are multiple builds, easily.
It's not the end of the world to admit that Rift is an almost wholesale rip-off of Warhammer Online. It's a good game, but just accept that it does nothing new, and admit that you just want to play another rehashed game with new scenery. There's nothing wrong with that. If you like it, then that's all that matters. Trying to deny the obvious though... well, it makes you look silly.
Ok, Rift is just Warhammer Online with New Scenery. There, now are you happy?
Seriously Guys and Gals, I don't want, or need, a totally new game, with all new features from top to bottom. I want a game that works. And I want to be able to play and enjoy it wihout being nerfed every time I turn around. Past that I'd like a reasonable level of customer support, for when issues do crop up.
This has nothing to do with "not being able to get my head around something new...". I can accept new ideas. But not just from any company. I don't trust most companies enough not to screw it up. I've been there and done that... And it didn't work for the other guys. So I have no expectation Trion Worlds, a company I had never heard of until recently, is going to be able to do more than "take a proven formula", add a couple of new ideas, and get it to work.
Its ok with me that don't like Rift. But its disfunctional to try and convince everyone else to hate it as well. You aren't going to force Trion to do what you want. And you cannot control what other players do either. So give it a rest, and go find something else to do.
Excellent points. I stated myself, that all I'm looking for is a good game, that I enjoy. Rift fits that bill. Its polished, I like the soul system, there is no forced PvP on the PvE servers, I like the lore that I've seen. The graphics are nice(not over the top bleeding edge, that would bog down my system when 40-50 people are on screen at once). I really do not care in the least if they have "ripped off" WoW or Warhammer or Hello Kittys Island Adventure, for that matter ^^ This is a hobby to me, not an obsession. But that old saying is obviously true. "Haters gotta hate. "
It's not the end of the world to admit that Rift is an almost wholesale rip-off of Warhammer Online. It's a good game, but just accept that it does nothing new, and admit that you just want to play another rehashed game with new scenery. There's nothing wrong with that. If you like it, then that's all that matters. Trying to deny the obvious though... well, it makes you look silly.
Ok, Rift is just Warhammer Online with New Scenery. There, now are you happy?
Seriously Guys and Gals, I don't want, or need, a totally new game, with all new features from top to bottom. I want a game that works. And I want to be able to play and enjoy it wihout being nerfed every time I turn around. Past that I'd like a reasonable level of customer support, for when issues do crop up.
This has nothing to do with "not being able to get my head around something new...". I can accept new ideas. But not just from any company. I don't trust most companies enough not to screw it up. I've been there and done that... And it didn't work for the other guys. So I have no expectation Trion Worlds, a company I had never heard of until recently, is going to be able to do more than "take a proven formula", add a couple of new ideas, and get it to work.
Its ok with me that don't like Rift. But its disfunctional to try and convince everyone else to hate it as well. You aren't going to force Trion to do what you want. And you cannot control what other players do either. So give it a rest, and go find something else to do.
Excellent points. I stated myself, that all I'm looking for is a good game, that I enjoy. Rift fits that bill. Its polished, I like the soul system, there is no forced PvP on the PvE servers, I like the lore that I've seen. The graphics are nice(not over the top bleeding edge, that would bog down my system when 40-50 people are on screen at once). I really do not care in the least if they have "ripped off" WoW or Warhammer or Hello Kittys Island Adventure, for that matter ^^ This is a hobby to me, not an obsession. But that old saying is obviously true. "Haters gotta hate. "
Me and my wife are in the same boat as you guys lol. I play games to have fun and to blow an hour or 2, not to admire its innovativeness. They did the right features for me in the right combination, and thats all i need.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
Comments
Haha, I know that we're all gamers, however what you're suggesting is unreasonable. I hope you realise why.
Reported for being off topic.
Just kidding, but can't have you derailing our interesting and totally unique conversation about why Rift is just like WOW. (wait, isn't there a thread for that?)
Back to the OP, which was flamebait if I ever saw some, it just seemed to me that article was written by fans, for fans, w/o any real concession to the elements that make it feel like so many games that came before it.
I'll save the arguments for another thread about how I feel a fantasy MMORPG can be built that plays considerably different from the current crop of MMORPGs though...that would be totally off topic in this case.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
{Mod edit}
If you have been paying attention to MMO releases in the past few years, most of the "blockbuster" releases shouldn't have left beta. For once we have a game that is actually ready to leave beta, where there are no gamebreaking bugs in it and it doesn't feel like the companies just want to get the damn thing out the door to see some profit.
For once instead of people playing the game post-release and saying they feel like they are playing a beta, people in the actual beta are saying they feel like they are playing a game ready for release.
It actually has some polish on it and people feel like the devs give a damn.
Is it more of the same?
Yes.
Is your whining about it being more of the same going to change anything in regards to this game?
No.
{Mod edit}
.. But in a good way.
I believe in this too but have you seen whats been coming out of the MMO market as of late? Buggy, crappy, unfinished games...Sometimes to take 1 step forward you gotta take 2 steps back. Is RIFT a clone...yeah probably, but unlike most of the games coming out now a days, what it clones it does right and is mostly playable...I mean even if you hate the game you got to give it credit in that, unlike most of whats come out, it atleast is a finished product. Plus it improves on items it clones...isn't that how WoW became the juggernaut it is today? If it was up to me all games would have followed the Ultima Online model instead of the EQ model but with every freakin IP in exsitence becoming an MMO now, finding a game that actually comes out finished is more rare than a game with "new and improved ideas".
you might find this hard to believe, but some of us actually like the 'high fantasy' setting.
if Rift and Xyson were both novels, i would read Rift. It's all about preference. Xyson might be awesome, but it will appeal to people who want that post-apocolyptic setting. I only play video games for my 'fantasy fix'. if all fantasy rpgs just disappeared, i would be finished with games, and move on to more productive hobbies that i have.
it's funny how you have to insult gamers 'taste' for what kind of worlds we enjoy. i DO appreciate a company that does new innovating things, but i also don't get very interested in non-magic based games. maybe i'm wrong, and there is an option to practice black magic in Xyson. it just didn't seem to offer that, or fit into the theme.
i wish an amazing sci-fi MMO would come out, so all these poor gamers suffering in the fantasy setting can quit complaining about it, and get out of a world they don't even like. so many mmoer's play fantasy setting games (WoW) but hate the elements of fantasy. so please, if fantasy is not for you, don't play a fantasy game. it sounds like common sense to me. but it's ok. i have seen many of your post in the past, and do not expect common sense in return. what i do expect, is for you to hypocritically claim that i am being insulting, as if the tones of everything you say does not drip with contempt.
While that may well be true(jarring most people out of their comfort zones usually does not make business sense), thats simply the reality that exists. Since that IS the reality, and given that these projects take millions and millions(of other peoples money) to create, they tend to be rather conservative in dealing with unproven dynamics, and unconventional approaches.
There is also the point that the established dynamics have a rather long track record of what works, and what doesn't. That makes polishing them MUCH easier. Its a known fact that surface attracts people, but that polish and depth keep them. The history of MMO's(what there is of it at this point) is filled with examples of what happens to games that lack polish.
This article defends Rift BECAUSE...
Calling Rift WoWHammer --> Rift is not worth trying, 'cause you've played it before; Rifts = PQs so nothing to see here
A lot of people tried Rift and were pleasantly surprised. Hell, they are having FUN. So they feel that the WoWHammer label doesn't give Rift credit where credit is due, but more "annoyingly" discorages people from trying the game.
I agree with the article, while you have a chance to trial via the beta, ignore the clone comments and you may find an MMO you enjoy, even love. And it will cost you nothing to find out.
The endless arguments about originality - apart from making my eyes bleed - are absolutely pointless.
Really? I guess I've been playing an entirely different game then.
Eleanor Rigby.
As I said....before MASSIVELY deleted my post on their web site....that "article" looked like it was written by the TRION WORLDS marketing department.If you're going to post an opinon...then the reader has a right to know that is just that...an opinion.Pieces should clearly state that you are about to read one writers OPINION.To do anything less is dishonest and a diservice to those who expected something other than what the piece perported to be.
.. because it's typically understood by the readers of the articles that this is the opinion of the writer.
That's why at the top it says "by Karen Bryan."
I believe that statement is saying that, unlike WAR's PQs, it isn't the same exact scripted event in the same exact location, repeating over and over ad infinitum.
.. But in a good way.
The game is good, but it's very status-quo. There's really no denying that. The only reason people are so impressed is because we haven't gotten a good game that's actually polished in a long time.
Why should it need to be labled as an opinion? That should be the natural assumption one makes in the first place. Opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone has one, and they all collect lint. ^^ From what I've seen Rift does look like its going to be fun. (This *Opinion* has been brought to you by Wraithone). ^^
Ok, Rift is just Warhammer Online with New Scenery. There, now are you happy?
Seriously Guys and Gals, I don't want, or need, a totally new game, with all new features from top to bottom. I want a game that works. And I want to be able to play and enjoy it wihout being nerfed every time I turn around. Past that I'd like a reasonable level of customer support, for when issues do crop up.
This has nothing to do with "not being able to get my head around something new...". I can accept new ideas. But not just from any company. I don't trust most companies enough not to screw it up. I've been there and done that... And it didn't work for the other guys. So I have no expectation Trion Worlds, a company I had never heard of until recently, is going to be able to do more than "take a proven formula", add a couple of new ideas, and get it to work.
Its ok with me that don't like Rift. But its disfunctional to try and convince everyone else to hate it as well. You aren't going to force Trion to do what you want. And you cannot control what other players do either. So give it a rest, and go find something else to do.
People say: WoW Clone, WAR Clone, LotRO Clone, Tibia Clone...etc, etc.
But Soul System in Rift is a totally new thing, hard to balance but with infinite possibilities.
Sry for my english, I'm Eth.
No, there are not infinite possibilities.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Well... almost.
Note even close.
Comes out to like 336, give or take a few combinations, per soul. This isn't including the PVP souls.
This is also just combinations of 3 different souls, and not the allocations of the points.
Take an Assassin/Nightblade/Riftstalker for instance. A 51/10/5 would perform vastly different from a 31/31/4, the first being a melee dps specialist with good stealth capabilities; the second being solid at melee dps but having more ranged alternatives. Then go 5/10/51 and you're a tank :P
So for every combination of three souls out of those 336, there are multiple builds, easily.
.. But in a good way.
Excellent points. I stated myself, that all I'm looking for is a good game, that I enjoy. Rift fits that bill. Its polished, I like the soul system, there is no forced PvP on the PvE servers, I like the lore that I've seen. The graphics are nice(not over the top bleeding edge, that would bog down my system when 40-50 people are on screen at once). I really do not care in the least if they have "ripped off" WoW or Warhammer or Hello Kittys Island Adventure, for that matter ^^ This is a hobby to me, not an obsession. But that old saying is obviously true. "Haters gotta hate. "
Me and my wife are in the same boat as you guys lol. I play games to have fun and to blow an hour or 2, not to admire its innovativeness. They did the right features for me in the right combination, and thats all i need.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.