Oh, and I just want to take a moment to reflect on the irony of accusing TOR of being less "alive" than other MMO worlds. Because when I think of what creates an immersive world, I totally get more immersed in a world where NPCs wander around randomly while crickets which you never see chirp in the background, but characters haven't yet discovered the concept of verbal communication, instead having all of their interaction through the passing of written notes which seldom actually get read, than I do in a world which is lacking in invisible crickets, where most of the NPCs are less mobile but communicate like actual people.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Awesome, another who gives a shit play it if you like it, don t if you don t like it thread. In game, almost everyone loves the game. I think that speaks volumes. No ones right or wrong if they like it or don t.
Of course, because they just opened the floodgates, so it's brand new to a lot of players. People who don't like it are a lot less likely to be playing it. And right now, the climate of rabid enthusiasm is such that even fans of the game are reluctant to publicly state anything negative. Moreso than past games, because if nothing else, the hype level of this game has skyrocketed above anything we've seen for years in this genre, creating a lot of crazy mob mentality.
I don't really know how it got so big, but think it might have something to do with timing. WoW's finally declining, its been a weak year for gaming, lot of people desperate for a new MMO.. but I don't see this one doing well in the long run. It's just not at all good enough, on a number of levels, and between the upcoming competition and even WoW managing to draw people back, I'd bet on half the game's population leaving within the first month, and half of what's left leaving within the second.
Despite how I feel about the game, its looking like with its lack of current competition and all, even I'm probably going to give it another shot. It's become such a major phenomenon, I wouldn't want to miss out on the early days of an MMO this big, if it turns out that I'm wrong..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
My problem is merely if you're supposed to be the focus of the story then it shouldn't be a mmo. So what you're saying is a strawman because lets look at the inquisitor storyline for a minute... you're the new recruit who is watched by your new eventual lord. Now every sith inquisitor has the same lord, every sith inquisitor with a few minor changes has the same beginning story. The narrative rpesents me as the hero but it also presented everyone else as the hero so we're all the same. It doesn't work logically. If there is going to be a story then you need to have a narrative that allows for that. For examples look at tabletop role playing.
They do the same thing in Mass Effect, or Dragon Age. You don't see other Inquisitors while you are in the *private instances* for your class quests any more than you see other Shepards while playing Mass Effect, but there are still millions of other people playing the exact same character. It takes no more suspension of disbelief than two people doing the same quest in any other MMO, or two people killing the same named NPC.
Essentially what you are saying here is that you don't want characters to have their own stories in MMOs. There are lots of MMOs that provide that experience. TOR won't be one of them.
mass effect is a single player game and it should be. Command Shepard is the focus of the story the narrative does not allow for anything different. Your example depends on how the quest is... in wow there is an quest where you kill spider eggs and then eventually the mother spider. That works that can pretty much happen over and over. In the inquisitor storyline you are a marvel outwitting and out beating all your peers. So if you look at eve instead there is a story which allows for the openess of the world. In TOR its presenting you as the hero and then presenting everyone after you as the same hero. It takes massive suspension of disbelief because again the narrative is not suited to an open world.
In order to put it in perspective lets look at two tv series. In Highlander the series: the focus is duncan macloud yes there is other cast but hes the focus. The narrative is intentionally closed so that the focus is understood. In the tv series the 4400 the story is about people taken throughout history who all get put back at the same spot and start developing abilities. This is an open world the narrative is kept open so it can explore many different issues and characters. So what TOR is trying to do is make every character duncan macloud from highlander in a world the scope of the 4400.
2. It has skills that can be clicked or one could spaz out on the number keys..
3. It has an "MP" mechanic, renamed for each class..
4. It has collection quests, it has activate object quests, it has waypoint quests...
5. It has an xp and level system..
6. It has skill trees..
7. It has LOS but also an auto target system..
8. It has instances..
9. It has raids..
And back to number 1, its an MMORPG..
If you prefer action games, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer first person shooters, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a sandbox, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a space flight simulator, you should look elsewhere..
If you dislike any of the features listed above to the point you'd frequent a forum to tell us so, then you should probably look elsewhere..
MMORPG can have action mechanics, first person mechanics, sandbox mechanics, or any or all of those other things. Nor does an MMORPG imply that it must use Holy Trinity mechanics.
Awesome, another who gives a shit play it if you like it, don t if you don t like it thread. In game, almost everyone loves the game. I think that speaks volumes. No ones right or wrong if they like it or don t.
Of course, because they just opened the floodgates, so it's brand new to a lot of players. People who don't like it are a lot less likely to be playing it. And right now, the climate of rabid enthusiasm is such that even fans of the game are reluctant to publicly state anything negative. Moreso than past games, because if nothing else, the hype level of this game has skyrocketed above anything we've seen for years in this genre, creating a lot of crazy mob mentality.
I don't really know how it got so big, but think it might have something to do with timing. WoW's finally declining, its been a weak year for gaming, lot of people desperate for a new MMO.. but I don't see this one doing well in the long run. It's just not at all good enough, on a number of levels, and between the upcoming competition and even WoW managing to draw people back, I'd bet on half the game's population leaving within the first month, and half of what's left leaving within the second.
Despite how I feel about the game, its looking like with its lack of current competition and all, even I'm probably going to give it another shot. It's become such a major phenomenon, I wouldn't want to miss out on the early days of an MMO this big, if it turns out that I'm wrong..
This is the attitude that bothes me the most. that people who like tor dont see any flaws There is not a tor fan out there who hasnt said the character creater sucks ass.
There isnt a tor fan out there who has denied tor has some bugs and other issues like space game. So they do admit there are faults with tor.
The thing we all agree on but get flamed for is we had fun in tor and that none of those issues are gamebreaking or will make the game any less fun for us.
god im so tired of having to defend the fact i had fun playng a game just because some people cant handle that the majority of players loved tor and had fun playing it.
its ridiculous the amount of hate some people have for a game. tor is a very fun game to play and to me thats all that matters. i dont care if it innovates or not.
I never thought the mmorpg genre was broke. Why would i want a genre i love to change when it wasnt broken to began with. Why do we have to fix a genre i still enjoy playing i dont see it.
Innovate all u want but you better make sure the game is fun to play or no matter how much innovation gw 2 has if it isnt fun no one will play that.
The one thing all the haters forget is that all that really matters when u play a game is if u had fun and in tor i did.
mass effect is a single player game and it should be. Command Shepard is the focus of the story the narrative does not allow for anything different. Your example depends on how the quest is... in wow there is an quest where you kill spider eggs and then eventually the mother spider. That works that can pretty much happen over and over. In the inquisitor storyline you are a marvel outwitting and out beating all your peers. So if you look at eve instead there is a story which allows for the openess of the world. In TOR its presenting you as the hero and then presenting everyone after you as the same hero. It takes massive suspension of disbelief because again the narrative is not suited to an open world.
In order to put it in perspective lets look at two tv series. In Highlander the series: the focus is duncan macloud yes there is other cast but hes the focus. The narrative is intentionally closed so that the focus is understood. In the tv series the 4400 the story is about people taken throughout history who all get put back at the same spot and start developing abilities. This is an open world the narrative is kept open so it can explore many different issues and characters. So what TOR is trying to do is make every character duncan macloud from highlander in a world the scope of the 4400.
Your analogy doesn't work. Look at most of the quests in every themepark MMO. They are specific quests, that narratively speaking only need to get completed once. Only one group takes down Deathwing. Only one group kills Arthas. Only one supervillain is Lex Luthor's special assistant in DCUO, only one warrior type character wakes up on the beach outside Tortage. In an MMO, to the extent a scripted narrative exists, the game's narrative and the non-narrative elements of that game occupy two separate realities. In the narrative reality of TOR, there are only eight playable characters. Total. Only in the non-narrative reality are there hundreds or thousands on a server.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Oh, and I just want to take a moment to reflect on the irony of accusing TOR of being less "alive" than other MMO worlds. Because when I think of what creates an immersive world, I totally get more immersed in a world where NPCs wander around randomly while crickets which you never see chirp in the background, but characters haven't yet discovered the concept of verbal communication, instead having all of their interaction through the passing of written notes which seldom actually get read, than I do in a world which is lacking in invisible crickets, where most of the NPCs are less mobile but communicate like actual people.
TOR is better when you talk to people and far, far more immersive there. I agree that for many that's probably more important. However, it IS worse in the world in general from what I saw. Bad guys typically just stand still, NPCs stand still, etc. There's some of that in WoW and such, but there's also a lot more movement and NPCs having activities, conversations with each other, etc. It is something about TOR that should get fixed.
mass effect is a single player game and it should be. Command Shepard is the focus of the story the narrative does not allow for anything different. Your example depends on how the quest is... in wow there is an quest where you kill spider eggs and then eventually the mother spider. That works that can pretty much happen over and over. In the inquisitor storyline you are a marvel outwitting and out beating all your peers. So if you look at eve instead there is a story which allows for the openess of the world. In TOR its presenting you as the hero and then presenting everyone after you as the same hero. It takes massive suspension of disbelief because again the narrative is not suited to an open world.
In order to put it in perspective lets look at two tv series. In Highlander the series: the focus is duncan macloud yes there is other cast but hes the focus. The narrative is intentionally closed so that the focus is understood. In the tv series the 4400 the story is about people taken throughout history who all get put back at the same spot and start developing abilities. This is an open world the narrative is kept open so it can explore many different issues and characters. So what TOR is trying to do is make every character duncan macloud from highlander in a world the scope of the 4400.
Your analogy doesn't work. Look at most of the quests in every themepark MMO. They are specific quests, that narratively speaking only need to get completed once. Only one group takes down Deathwing. Only one group kills Arthas. Only one supervillain is Lex Luthor's special assistant in DCUO, only one warrior type character wakes up on the beach outside Tortage. In an MMO, to the extent a scripted narrative exists, the game's narrative and the non-narrative elements of that game occupy two separate realities. In the narrative reality of TOR, there are only eight playable characters. Total. Only in the non-narrative reality are there hundreds or thousands on a server.
The point is that it is the inevitable result of combining a scripted narrative with an online game. You can't have both together and not have this problem. If somebody isn't ok with that, that is probably someone who shouldn't bother with any themepark MMO.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
2. It has skills that can be clicked or one could spaz out on the number keys..
3. It has an "MP" mechanic, renamed for each class..
4. It has collection quests, it has activate object quests, it has waypoint quests...
5. It has an xp and level system..
6. It has skill trees..
7. It has LOS but also an auto target system..
8. It has instances..
9. It has raids..
And back to number 1, its an MMORPG..
If you prefer action games, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer first person shooters, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a sandbox, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a space flight simulator, you should look elsewhere..
If you dislike any of the features listed above to the point you'd frequent a forum to tell us so, then you should probably look elsewhere..
MMORPG can have action mechanics, first person mechanics, sandbox mechanics, or any or all of those other things. Nor does an MMORPG imply that it must use Holy Trinity mechanics.
Yeah but to EXPECT every MMORPG to be a blend of those other genres is not really fair.. And its the sole reason why this genre is losing its identity.. because everyone wants it blended.. And now we have MMO Golf..
When Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out, you didnt hear people screaming how much they wanted to be able to click skills on a hotbar.. nor in a Call of Duty forum have I ever heard someone cry about not being able to throw down their guns and execute combos and get ring outs..
There are certain mechanics that make a genre, a genre.. Fighting games will always be fighting games and shooters will be shooters.. CAN they blend? Sure they could, but should their fans expect them to ALWAYS blend? I wouldn't think so..
When Nintendo came out with the "NEW" super Mario bro's on handheld, they could have made it a shooter, or even a role playing game.. but then it wouldn't have truly been a platformer..
I mean it's fine to want something different, but some of us enjoy what we have in our genre, thats why I play them.. Either wait for something that is more your cup of tea, or simple play something thats worth while to you..
The point is that it is the inevitable result of combining a scripted narrative with an online game. You can't have both together and not have this problem. If somebody isn't ok with that, that is probably someone who shouldn't bother with any themepark MMO.
Well, that's not true. You could avoid having all players be a chosen one or having to kill a unique boss over and over and over again in instances (and only do it once in an open world).
2. It has skills that can be clicked or one could spaz out on the number keys..
3. It has an "MP" mechanic, renamed for each class..
4. It has collection quests, it has activate object quests, it has waypoint quests...
5. It has an xp and level system..
6. It has skill trees..
7. It has LOS but also an auto target system..
8. It has instances..
9. It has raids..
And back to number 1, its an MMORPG..
If you prefer action games, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer first person shooters, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a sandbox, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a space flight simulator, you should look elsewhere..
If you dislike any of the features listed above to the point you'd frequent a forum to tell us so, then you should probably look elsewhere..
MMORPG can have action mechanics, first person mechanics, sandbox mechanics, or any or all of those other things. Nor does an MMORPG imply that it must use Holy Trinity mechanics.
Yeah but to EXPECT every MMORPG to be a blend of those other genres is not really fair.. And its the sole reason why this genre is losing its identity.. because everyone wants it blended.. And now we have MMO Golf..
When Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out, you didnt hear people screaming how much they wanted to be able to click skills on a hotbar.. nor in a Call of Duty forum have I ever heard someone cry about not being able to throw down their guns and execute combos and get ring outs..
There are certain mechanics that make a genre, a genre.. Fighting games will always be fighting games and shooters will be shooters.. CAN they blend? Sure they could, but should their fans expect them to ALWAYS blend? I wouldn't think so..
When Nintendo came out with the "NEW" super Mario bro's on handheld, they could have made it a shooter, or even a role playing game.. but then it wouldn't have truly been a platformer..
I mean it's fine to want something different, but some of us enjoy what we have in our genre, thats why I play them.. Either wait for something that is more your cup of tea, or simple play something thats worth while to you..
And you can overspecify what is necessary to be a game of a particular genre. You could require a platformer must have jumping on people's heads as an attack, or an FPS must have regenerating health, or an MMORPG must be a themepark/use HT mechanics/can't have action elements/etc.
You have overspecified what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. I merely pointed that out. I was pointing out there are a large number of paths one can take in making an MMORPG. There's no reason for one to resemble another all that much...certainly no more than say Dragon Age: Origins resembles Skyrim or a Final Fantasy title.
Btw, if people want to play a golf MMO, then there's no reason they shouldn't play it. It might sound odd to you or me, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It certainly doesn't hurt people who like other kinds MMOs.
Well, that's not true. You could avoid having all players be a chosen one or having to kill a unique boss over and over and over again in instances (and only do it once in an open world).
It's non-functional. You could have a "kill ten soldiers" quest, but you could literally never have a "kill Captain Bob" quest. In order to have a scripted narrative that didn't clash with the number of players, it would have to be a completely generic, vague, lifeless narrative, with no characterization of any of the PCs or NPCs. At that point, why bother including one at all, because all you do by having it in the game is call attention to how poorly implemented it is. And if you no longer have scripted quests, you no longer have a themepark, because there are no rides. At that point, you have to go sandbox in order to have any kind of content at all. Themeparks don't work without scripted narratives, the ones before TOR are just easier to ignore because they are less well written, not focused on your character, and not fully voiced.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
2. It has skills that can be clicked or one could spaz out on the number keys..
3. It has an "MP" mechanic, renamed for each class..
4. It has collection quests, it has activate object quests, it has waypoint quests...
5. It has an xp and level system..
6. It has skill trees..
7. It has LOS but also an auto target system..
8. It has instances..
9. It has raids..
And back to number 1, its an MMORPG..
If you prefer action games, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer first person shooters, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a sandbox, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a space flight simulator, you should look elsewhere..
If you dislike any of the features listed above to the point you'd frequent a forum to tell us so, then you should probably look elsewhere..
MMORPG can have action mechanics, first person mechanics, sandbox mechanics, or any or all of those other things. Nor does an MMORPG imply that it must use Holy Trinity mechanics.
Yeah but to EXPECT every MMORPG to be a blend of those other genres is not really fair.. And its the sole reason why this genre is losing its identity.. because everyone wants it blended.. And now we have MMO Golf..
When Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out, you didnt hear people screaming how much they wanted to be able to click skills on a hotbar.. nor in a Call of Duty forum have I ever heard someone cry about not being able to throw down their guns and execute combos and get ring outs..
There are certain mechanics that make a genre, a genre.. Fighting games will always be fighting games and shooters will be shooters.. CAN they blend? Sure they could, but should their fans expect them to ALWAYS blend? I wouldn't think so..
When Nintendo came out with the "NEW" super Mario bro's on handheld, they could have made it a shooter, or even a role playing game.. but then it wouldn't have truly been a platformer..
I mean it's fine to want something different, but some of us enjoy what we have in our genre, thats why I play them.. Either wait for something that is more your cup of tea, or simple play something thats worth while to you..
And you can overspecify what is necessary to be a game of a particular genre. You could require a platformer must have jumping on people's heads as an attack, or an FPS must have regenerating health, or an MMORPG must be a themepark/use HT mechanics/can't have action elements/etc.
You have overspecified what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. I merely pointed that out. I was pointing out there are a large number of paths one can take in making an MMORPG. There's no reason for one to resemble another all that much...certainly no more than say Dragon Age: Origins resembles Skyrim or a Final Fantasy title.
Btw, if people want to play a golf MMO, then there's no reason they shouldn't play it. It might sound odd to you or me, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It certainly doesn't hurt people who like other kinds MMOs.
Now Bob, I never said no one should enjoy a golf MMO, i was just stating that it is outside of the genre's norm and if WE (the traditionals) don't want to play it we shouldn't have to either..
I am not taking away your entitlement to do whatever you want guy, I am just saying that you guys attempt to make every game seem so "bad" because it wants to be traditional.. Some people like traditional. We heard all the same complaints during Rift launch, how it was the "same ol' same ol".. It's okay, we get your point, but you guys make it a point to say the same thing every single time a new game is launched.. I should have ignored the comment but I simply must understand what drives you guys on your political campaign against the fact that some of us find this and other games like it to be highly enjoyable?
But do not get me wrong, any developer can make whatever they want to make and slap any genre label on it.. But they and people like yourself should not get so angry when folks prefer it the traditional way..
Bottom line is that there is enough information about TOR to come up with your own opinion.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
You don't need to be a tester to figure out the "bottom line" on this bad boy.
Stay away, stay far far away.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
2. It has skills that can be clicked or one could spaz out on the number keys..
3. It has an "MP" mechanic, renamed for each class..
4. It has collection quests, it has activate object quests, it has waypoint quests...
5. It has an xp and level system..
6. It has skill trees..
7. It has LOS but also an auto target system..
8. It has instances..
9. It has raids..
And back to number 1, its an MMORPG..
If you prefer action games, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer first person shooters, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a sandbox, you should look elsewhere..
If you prefer a space flight simulator, you should look elsewhere..
If you dislike any of the features listed above to the point you'd frequent a forum to tell us so, then you should probably look elsewhere..
MMORPG can have action mechanics, first person mechanics, sandbox mechanics, or any or all of those other things. Nor does an MMORPG imply that it must use Holy Trinity mechanics.
Yeah but to EXPECT every MMORPG to be a blend of those other genres is not really fair.. And its the sole reason why this genre is losing its identity.. because everyone wants it blended.. And now we have MMO Golf..
When Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out, you didnt hear people screaming how much they wanted to be able to click skills on a hotbar.. nor in a Call of Duty forum have I ever heard someone cry about not being able to throw down their guns and execute combos and get ring outs..
There are certain mechanics that make a genre, a genre.. Fighting games will always be fighting games and shooters will be shooters.. CAN they blend? Sure they could, but should their fans expect them to ALWAYS blend? I wouldn't think so..
When Nintendo came out with the "NEW" super Mario bro's on handheld, they could have made it a shooter, or even a role playing game.. but then it wouldn't have truly been a platformer..
I mean it's fine to want something different, but some of us enjoy what we have in our genre, thats why I play them.. Either wait for something that is more your cup of tea, or simple play something thats worth while to you..
Expecting MMORPG to = hotbar is short sighted.
There's too much variety in the "RPG" genre to have such a limited scope.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
You don't need to be a tester to figure out the "bottom line" on this bad boy.
Stay away, stay far far away.
Why? The way you present it, it sounds like you think *everyone* should avoid the game, regardless of their personal tastes. And how would someone form an educated opinion without trying the game?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
From what I've seen, here, on the TOR forums, and elsewhere across the internet, it seems pretty clear how things are shaping up. Almost all of the negative opinions about the game focus on things which are either true of almost all themeparks, or of almost all BioWare games. When you remove those elements from the list, and look at what negative feedback is still present, there just isn't very much left.
So what is the logical conclusion? I would say it is that if you enjoy themepark MMOs, enjoy BioWare games, and aren't emotionally invested in any MMO that isn't WoW failing, you are probably going to enjoy TOR. If you don't enjoy themeparks or don't enjoy BioWare games, you're probably not going to like it, but I don't think you are going to find many rational arguments for TOR not being a very high quality example of both of those types of game.
Not being a type of game you like =/= being a bad specimen of that type of game.
i dont hate themeparks, in fact, if its fun, i might even enjoy a theme park, depends on the rides and games.
i love bioware, i worship the ass they sit on, cant help it, they make good shit.
im a star wars fan............atic, again, even though lucas beats a dead horse with a stick, i still enjoy the original trilogy, and the fun star wars games of the past.
so what did i think of swtor beta weekend? i think i just found a cocktail of heroic coke meth and speed, im hooked, im jonesing for more, im willing to kill you to get my fix.....
Originally posted by CazNeerg Originally posted by stayontarget You don't need to be a tester to figure out the "bottom line" on this bad boy. Stay away, stay far far away.
Why? The way you present it, it sounds like you think *everyone* should avoid the game, regardless of their personal tastes. And how would someone form an educated opinion without trying the game? Stay's compass has been a bit broken since he was advocating to everyone how good FFXIV was going to be before it launched. It hasn't righted itself since.
As a fellow Final Fantasy fan and player, I'll counter and say he's exaggerating a tad here.
This is the attitude that bothes me the most. that people who like tor dont see any flaws There is not a tor fan out there who hasnt said the character creater sucks ass.
There isnt a tor fan out there who has denied tor has some bugs and other issues like space game. So they do admit there are faults with tor.
The thing we all agree on but get flamed for is we had fun in tor and that none of those issues are gamebreaking or will make the game any less fun for us.
god im so tired of having to defend the fact i had fun playng a game just because some people cant handle that the majority of players loved tor and had fun playing it.
its ridiculous the amount of hate some people have for a game. tor is a very fun game to play and to me thats all that matters. i dont care if it innovates or not.
I never thought the mmorpg genre was broke. Why would i want a genre i love to change when it wasnt broken to began with. Why do we have to fix a genre i still enjoy playing i dont see it.
Innovate all u want but you better make sure the game is fun to play or no matter how much innovation gw 2 has if it isnt fun no one will play that.
The one thing all the haters forget is that all that really matters when u play a game is if u had fun and in tor i did.
Thank you. If a game isn't fun to play then I could give a damn about how "innovative" it is. Right now the haters heads are exploding because they want TOR to fail and it isn't going to happen. Hence the explosion of hate threads and hate posts posted from multiple accounts.
This is the attitude that bothes me the most. that people who like tor dont see any flaws There is not a tor fan out there who hasnt said the character creater sucks ass.
There isnt a tor fan out there who has denied tor has some bugs and other issues like space game. So they do admit there are faults with tor.
The thing we all agree on but get flamed for is we had fun in tor and that none of those issues are gamebreaking or will make the game any less fun for us.
god im so tired of having to defend the fact i had fun playng a game just because some people cant handle that the majority of players loved tor and had fun playing it.
its ridiculous the amount of hate some people have for a game. tor is a very fun game to play and to me thats all that matters. i dont care if it innovates or not.
I never thought the mmorpg genre was broke. Why would i want a genre i love to change when it wasnt broken to began with. Why do we have to fix a genre i still enjoy playing i dont see it.
Innovate all u want but you better make sure the game is fun to play or no matter how much innovation gw 2 has if it isnt fun no one will play that.
The one thing all the haters forget is that all that really matters when u play a game is if u had fun and in tor i did.
Thank you. If a game isn't fun to play then I could give a damn about how "innovative" it is. Right now the haters heads are exploding because they want TOR to fail and it isn't going to happen. Hence the explosion of hate threads and hate posts posted from multiple accounts.
funny thing is, if you ip trace the accounts, they are all the same troll.....
The point is that it is the inevitable result of combining a scripted narrative with an online game. You can't have both together and not have this problem. If somebody isn't ok with that, that is probably someone who shouldn't bother with any themepark MMO.
They could make scripts that mix and match variables, creating quests for the player dynamically. When a player starts a quest, for example, the game might spawn the target NPC in some semi-randomized location. The game could even randomize attributes of the NPC and the NPC's name, or select from a pool of presets. The NPC could appear to be a non-combat friendly NPC to all other players, until attacked by the player with the quest, at which point they'd be attackable, but tagged by the player who needs to kill them.
Just one example of how they could mix things up so that it would be a better fit for an open world. I'm sure its not a perfect solution, but the point is, there are other ways of doing it than the way it keeps getting done.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
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Oh, and I just want to take a moment to reflect on the irony of accusing TOR of being less "alive" than other MMO worlds. Because when I think of what creates an immersive world, I totally get more immersed in a world where NPCs wander around randomly while crickets which you never see chirp in the background, but characters haven't yet discovered the concept of verbal communication, instead having all of their interaction through the passing of written notes which seldom actually get read, than I do in a world which is lacking in invisible crickets, where most of the NPCs are less mobile but communicate like actual people.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Of course, because they just opened the floodgates, so it's brand new to a lot of players. People who don't like it are a lot less likely to be playing it. And right now, the climate of rabid enthusiasm is such that even fans of the game are reluctant to publicly state anything negative. Moreso than past games, because if nothing else, the hype level of this game has skyrocketed above anything we've seen for years in this genre, creating a lot of crazy mob mentality.
I don't really know how it got so big, but think it might have something to do with timing. WoW's finally declining, its been a weak year for gaming, lot of people desperate for a new MMO.. but I don't see this one doing well in the long run. It's just not at all good enough, on a number of levels, and between the upcoming competition and even WoW managing to draw people back, I'd bet on half the game's population leaving within the first month, and half of what's left leaving within the second.
Despite how I feel about the game, its looking like with its lack of current competition and all, even I'm probably going to give it another shot. It's become such a major phenomenon, I wouldn't want to miss out on the early days of an MMO this big, if it turns out that I'm wrong..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
mass effect is a single player game and it should be. Command Shepard is the focus of the story the narrative does not allow for anything different. Your example depends on how the quest is... in wow there is an quest where you kill spider eggs and then eventually the mother spider. That works that can pretty much happen over and over. In the inquisitor storyline you are a marvel outwitting and out beating all your peers. So if you look at eve instead there is a story which allows for the openess of the world. In TOR its presenting you as the hero and then presenting everyone after you as the same hero. It takes massive suspension of disbelief because again the narrative is not suited to an open world.
In order to put it in perspective lets look at two tv series. In Highlander the series: the focus is duncan macloud yes there is other cast but hes the focus. The narrative is intentionally closed so that the focus is understood. In the tv series the 4400 the story is about people taken throughout history who all get put back at the same spot and start developing abilities. This is an open world the narrative is kept open so it can explore many different issues and characters. So what TOR is trying to do is make every character duncan macloud from highlander in a world the scope of the 4400.
MMORPG can have action mechanics, first person mechanics, sandbox mechanics, or any or all of those other things. Nor does an MMORPG imply that it must use Holy Trinity mechanics.
This is the attitude that bothes me the most. that people who like tor dont see any flaws There is not a tor fan out there who hasnt said the character creater sucks ass.
There isnt a tor fan out there who has denied tor has some bugs and other issues like space game. So they do admit there are faults with tor.
The thing we all agree on but get flamed for is we had fun in tor and that none of those issues are gamebreaking or will make the game any less fun for us.
god im so tired of having to defend the fact i had fun playng a game just because some people cant handle that the majority of players loved tor and had fun playing it.
its ridiculous the amount of hate some people have for a game. tor is a very fun game to play and to me thats all that matters. i dont care if it innovates or not.
I never thought the mmorpg genre was broke. Why would i want a genre i love to change when it wasnt broken to began with. Why do we have to fix a genre i still enjoy playing i dont see it.
Innovate all u want but you better make sure the game is fun to play or no matter how much innovation gw 2 has if it isnt fun no one will play that.
The one thing all the haters forget is that all that really matters when u play a game is if u had fun and in tor i did.
Your analogy doesn't work. Look at most of the quests in every themepark MMO. They are specific quests, that narratively speaking only need to get completed once. Only one group takes down Deathwing. Only one group kills Arthas. Only one supervillain is Lex Luthor's special assistant in DCUO, only one warrior type character wakes up on the beach outside Tortage. In an MMO, to the extent a scripted narrative exists, the game's narrative and the non-narrative elements of that game occupy two separate realities. In the narrative reality of TOR, there are only eight playable characters. Total. Only in the non-narrative reality are there hundreds or thousands on a server.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
TOR is better when you talk to people and far, far more immersive there. I agree that for many that's probably more important. However, it IS worse in the world in general from what I saw. Bad guys typically just stand still, NPCs stand still, etc. There's some of that in WoW and such, but there's also a lot more movement and NPCs having activities, conversations with each other, etc. It is something about TOR that should get fixed.
True, most themeparks have this problem.
The point is that it is the inevitable result of combining a scripted narrative with an online game. You can't have both together and not have this problem. If somebody isn't ok with that, that is probably someone who shouldn't bother with any themepark MMO.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Yeah but to EXPECT every MMORPG to be a blend of those other genres is not really fair.. And its the sole reason why this genre is losing its identity.. because everyone wants it blended.. And now we have MMO Golf..
When Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out, you didnt hear people screaming how much they wanted to be able to click skills on a hotbar.. nor in a Call of Duty forum have I ever heard someone cry about not being able to throw down their guns and execute combos and get ring outs..
There are certain mechanics that make a genre, a genre.. Fighting games will always be fighting games and shooters will be shooters.. CAN they blend? Sure they could, but should their fans expect them to ALWAYS blend? I wouldn't think so..
When Nintendo came out with the "NEW" super Mario bro's on handheld, they could have made it a shooter, or even a role playing game.. but then it wouldn't have truly been a platformer..
I mean it's fine to want something different, but some of us enjoy what we have in our genre, thats why I play them.. Either wait for something that is more your cup of tea, or simple play something thats worth while to you..
Well, that's not true. You could avoid having all players be a chosen one or having to kill a unique boss over and over and over again in instances (and only do it once in an open world).
And you can overspecify what is necessary to be a game of a particular genre. You could require a platformer must have jumping on people's heads as an attack, or an FPS must have regenerating health, or an MMORPG must be a themepark/use HT mechanics/can't have action elements/etc.
You have overspecified what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. I merely pointed that out. I was pointing out there are a large number of paths one can take in making an MMORPG. There's no reason for one to resemble another all that much...certainly no more than say Dragon Age: Origins resembles Skyrim or a Final Fantasy title.
Btw, if people want to play a golf MMO, then there's no reason they shouldn't play it. It might sound odd to you or me, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It certainly doesn't hurt people who like other kinds MMOs.
It's non-functional. You could have a "kill ten soldiers" quest, but you could literally never have a "kill Captain Bob" quest. In order to have a scripted narrative that didn't clash with the number of players, it would have to be a completely generic, vague, lifeless narrative, with no characterization of any of the PCs or NPCs. At that point, why bother including one at all, because all you do by having it in the game is call attention to how poorly implemented it is. And if you no longer have scripted quests, you no longer have a themepark, because there are no rides. At that point, you have to go sandbox in order to have any kind of content at all. Themeparks don't work without scripted narratives, the ones before TOR are just easier to ignore because they are less well written, not focused on your character, and not fully voiced.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Now Bob, I never said no one should enjoy a golf MMO, i was just stating that it is outside of the genre's norm and if WE (the traditionals) don't want to play it we shouldn't have to either..
I am not taking away your entitlement to do whatever you want guy, I am just saying that you guys attempt to make every game seem so "bad" because it wants to be traditional.. Some people like traditional. We heard all the same complaints during Rift launch, how it was the "same ol' same ol".. It's okay, we get your point, but you guys make it a point to say the same thing every single time a new game is launched.. I should have ignored the comment but I simply must understand what drives you guys on your political campaign against the fact that some of us find this and other games like it to be highly enjoyable?
But do not get me wrong, any developer can make whatever they want to make and slap any genre label on it.. But they and people like yourself should not get so angry when folks prefer it the traditional way..
Bottom line is that there is enough information about TOR to come up with your own opinion.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
You don't need to be a tester to figure out the "bottom line" on this bad boy.
Stay away, stay far far away.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Expecting MMORPG to = hotbar is short sighted.
There's too much variety in the "RPG" genre to have such a limited scope.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Why? The way you present it, it sounds like you think *everyone* should avoid the game, regardless of their personal tastes. And how would someone form an educated opinion without trying the game?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
i dont hate themeparks, in fact, if its fun, i might even enjoy a theme park, depends on the rides and games.
i love bioware, i worship the ass they sit on, cant help it, they make good shit.
im a star wars fan............atic, again, even though lucas beats a dead horse with a stick, i still enjoy the original trilogy, and the fun star wars games of the past.
so what did i think of swtor beta weekend? i think i just found a cocktail of heroic coke meth and speed, im hooked, im jonesing for more, im willing to kill you to get my fix.....
Stay's compass has been a bit broken since he was advocating to everyone how good FFXIV was going to be before it launched. It hasn't righted itself since.
As a fellow Final Fantasy fan and player, I'll counter and say he's exaggerating a tad here.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Thank you. If a game isn't fun to play then I could give a damn about how "innovative" it is. Right now the haters heads are exploding because they want TOR to fail and it isn't going to happen. Hence the explosion of hate threads and hate posts posted from multiple accounts.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdPHPt3Yey4
funny thing is, if you ip trace the accounts, they are all the same troll.....
i guess it wasn't my cup of tea. it wasn't that fun for me.
i did enjoy the voice and choices and the smuggler.
They could make scripts that mix and match variables, creating quests for the player dynamically. When a player starts a quest, for example, the game might spawn the target NPC in some semi-randomized location. The game could even randomize attributes of the NPC and the NPC's name, or select from a pool of presets. The NPC could appear to be a non-combat friendly NPC to all other players, until attacked by the player with the quest, at which point they'd be attackable, but tagged by the player who needs to kill them.
Just one example of how they could mix things up so that it would be a better fit for an open world. I'm sure its not a perfect solution, but the point is, there are other ways of doing it than the way it keeps getting done.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.