Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Do you think SWTOR will attract a lot of non MMORPG players?
ArcaSpiff
Member UncommonPosts: 99
Seems like I hear a lot about people who typically don't play MMOs are really interested in SWTOR. How do you think this will effect the mmo community? I saw where someone released a short FAQ for newcomers to the genre http://www.roboawesome.com/?p=20727
It worked for me in helping me adjust.
I do have a feeling there will be a lot of hating on them.
Comments
In the past, I have not seen a lot of non-mmo players crossing over to play a P2P game, regardless of the IP or developer.
TOR could be different, or it could simply follow the pattern I have seen. I am not seeing a whole lot that would motivate me to start paying a monthly sub to play a game, when you can get good non-mmo games without a monthly - just my opinion.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Yes. It obviously will attract lots of Star Wars and Bioware fans.
I think people will adjust to the game mechanics well. Bioware seems to be very conscious of this in their game design. The game provides lots of training on gameplay mechanics for those that aren't familiar with MMO group content. Right off the bat it starts introducting mechanics to players that most games of this nature wait until endgame to throw at you. Early heroic quests and even soloable content gives them an introduction to group mechanics and they are slowly eased into more complicated stuff.
If you look at the first flashpoint, you can see that it is very forgiving in terms of different roles. Nothing is too complicated yet, but they still provide mechanics in the fights to get people used to their roles.
I think that newcomers will find a very easy time getting used to mmo group mechanics in this game. TOR does a great job of training them. Also, we were all noobs at one time or another. The most seasoned veterans of the mmo genre had to learn the basics at some time, and most games we learned on weren't as noob friendly early on as this one.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
I talked my wife into trying a few classes during beta and she got bored withen a few minutes, shes more of the scrabble, text twist and facebook games than a mmo player.
Really? I can think of a P2P game that brought in several million non-MMO fans. From an IP with a much smaller fanbase than Star Wars, and a company with about the same size fanbase (at the time) as BioWare has now.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Most MMO's attract a very large percentage of non MMO players. Most players simply do not play MMOs they just pretend to. Unlike the veran players most of these players are box sale players only and will only last a few months in a MMO. They dominate the boards, help dumb down games and are a big part of the revenue but they are not real players and are impossible to keep happy.
SWTOR is pulling strong from this type of casual player. Given the type of gameplay, action combat, super fast leveling and untested endgame content I doubt many MMO veteran players will be attracted to SWTOR. I am amazed but out of hundreds of MMO friends from amy different guilds I know no one playing SWTOR at release.
Well I don't think anyone thinks that this game will attract farmville players to suddenly pick up mmos just because they like star wars. Point is though that there are a lot of gamers out there that love star wars, but aren't necissarily MMO gamers. KoTOR fans, for example.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Well before WoW came along the MMO community was a very small bunch, I think the largest game at the time was EQ with about 400k to 500k subs. WoW brought in a lot of non MMO players that were familiar with their games and the Warcraft franchise. So yes I can see SWTOR bringing in more non MMO players, due to fact that most will be Bioware fans, KOTOR fans, and some Star Wars fans.
Well, let's see...before WoW, total customer base of ~5 million gamers (possibly less). Seven years later, minimum of 15 million in the market. They had to come from somewhere.
I met more housewives and their kids with no previous "gamer cred" in WoW than you would believe. Not even counting the former console players, WoW introduced a huge number of people into the market.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Untested endgame? Not true.
Super fast leveling? not true. Rift was super fast leveling, this is significantly longer than that.
Dominate the boards? Ha! The people that dominate the boards are not the casual box sale players, it's the jaded veteran's that have played every mmo. Most people don't use forums at all, especially the casual crowd.
"Not real players?" What the hell is a real player? I think anyone playing the game, who is also a real person, is a "real player."
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
And I can think of 4 that came from pretty popular IPs that did not bring in the millions that everyone claimed they would - 3 of which came out post WoW, and was unable to grab addition subs from the WoW players (ie they did not get people playing wow to additionally subscribe to their game, even though they could very well have been wow gamers and fans of the new games IP).
So right there thats 1 out of 5, which doesn't support that people will cross over to this game just because it is Star Wars, or just because it is BW.
Again, I am not saying it wont happen, but rather stating that in my experience it usually does not happen, added that P2P MMORPGs do not seem to be a resounding success in the over all gamming mark.
Of course market saturation explains the results just as handily, but doesn't fit your hypothesis. If, on the other hand, a half decade later the market's ready for another boom again, your estimation could be off considerably.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think the mmo gamer population is shrinking , casual gamers dont want to be bogged down in front a screen for a commited amount of time. they like fast easy games playable from any portable device or use gaming sites that off card games, poping balloons, or facebook games.
I think some might cross over, but i just think there two different type of gamers.
Most of the complaints I see and hear come from the jaded veteran they are the ones that are harder to keep happy. A lot of the causuals seem to the play the games for the enjoyment factor, while vets spent their time number crunching and trying to beat the game, and get mad when things do not go their way. When I first started playing AC back in 2000 I had no idea what a raid was, what a dps, tank, or healer was but I had fun non the less.
It wasn't until I tried games like EQ and WoW when I realized the true horror of the MMO genre. Gone was the play the way you want to play, you had to conform to the way others though you should play. The number crunchers and spreadsheet readers, and it continues on until this day. Instead of the vets trying to teach and show new players how to play, they spend their time belittling them and trying to run them off.
I think people still use the pay to play argument too much. They always talk about why they should pay after buying the game. They fail to realize how much upkeep the companies really do to keep the game running well, as well as constant new conent. MMOs are more of a hobby itself than typical games, what with the time sink and such. Think of it like Magic: The Gathering. You always have to buy new cards.
Surely. The WoW boom is actually pretty unlikely to occur again (imo), for a variety of reasons.
On the other hand, if Lucas sents the six films around for yet another tour, some surprise business could take place.
Prognosticating is an inherently dangerous business, with some pretty unreliable results.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Just from my own personal exprience I'd have to say yes more than a handful of my friends (Xbox Live/ PSN guys) are going to be picking the game up eventually. I kinda scratched my head and asked them if they understood that it was an MMO and they are all fully aware of it. Many just want to exprience the story so they'll probably quit after they do all, I could see a few of them getting hooked however.
you sir, are correct.^^^
those of us who complain on general gaming sites are by far the minority. right now theres millions of people having fun with whatever mmo they choose to play, heck, theres still people playing eq1 and loving it. we are the d-bags who are jaded and expect everything to be the way we want it to be,
we are just the annoying minority with the loudest mouths calling everyone a noob and giving no answer, smart ass answers, or nothing at all to any new player and making everyone feel unwelcome or pushing them to play a set way.
Imo, I think the difference between LoTRo P2P and their LoTRo F2P, supports the argument.
The large increase when the P2P, suggests that P2P was a negative factor.
You really underestimate some of the Bioware fans that will pickup anything Bioware, and than you overlook the KOTOR fans that are diehard fans of that series. KOTOR is what got me truely interested in Star Wars, I seen the movies when I was a kid, but it wasn't anything to get me to go out and buy all things Star Wars. I am picking up TOR because it continues the KOTOR series and I am pretty sure others are going to do the same thing as well.
And lastly the truely diehard Star Wars fan, that will buy anything that has the label Star Wars stamped across the label. They may get mad and pitch a fit over canon clashes but you best believe that they won't pass up the lastest in Star Wars installments. I can bet you any kind of money that althought LA changed a lot of stuff in the original movies those fans still went out and bought them. You can down play it all you want, but all of that combined not just the SW IP is going to bring in a big influx of new players.
It is not underestimating, but rather being realistic about the what has happened in the past.
SWG did not attract and retain millions of Star Wars fans, despite the release of the Prequel films.
AoC did not attract and retain millions of Conan fans.
LoTRO did not attract and retain millions of Tolkien fans, when it was a P2P.
STO did not attract and retain millions of Trekkies.
These past examples indicates that just being a fan of something doesn't mean a person is willing to spend $60 and then $15/mo on a game just because they are a fan of the IP.
Again, I am not saying it wont or cannot happen, but rather acknowledging that based on other MMO+IP mixes performance, it doesn't seem as definate as you seem to proport.
Edit: Guess i forgot the main point to the rest of my post:) I do not think that the current PC on-line gaming market is big enough to draw in big numbers of non MMO players.
Not sure if SWTOR will, but gaming is changing. So more and more people are coming to see that on-line and gaming go together pretty well. Problem is, i think that more than half the on-line market is stuck in pure console on-line gaming.
10 years ago consoles on-line gaming was not like it is today. Today, it is almost the norm to have games be part of on-line play and be easier to patch and have DLC, and so on. So it is a whole lot more familiar to people to have games be on-line.
Problem right now is, console-PC combined gaming is still a bit off. Been a few games heading that way, but no big hits to make the Dev's head that way yet.
But for now, console on-line gaming and PC on-line gaming are like 2 seperate countries. You do not get a lot of crossover, where people have both and play both on-line. And where you do, it is mostly PC users that do the cross overs the most in the console direction.
Guess a long way of saying no. I do not think we will see another big boom like wow until the 2 on-lines are merged with a big new game with a big name. When that happens and they can merge both the console on-line gamers with PC gamers, then we will have a new big gorrila in gaming, hell it may even be Blizzard again that makes it happen:)
Yes, I do expect a large amount of non-MMO players to take interest in SW:TOR.
In a way the scenerio is not unlike that when Blizzard started WoW. The potential of a large influx is something I think EA/Bioware is betting on happening. I think it will be pivotal to the success of the game.
Also, we are seeing a growing rise in the F2P system, which also is a factor in the MMO Market share.
Most likely not, ToR as a game is much more niche and has a much higher "entry" requirments than WoW, it is not a game that any one could pickup and relate too, not because its SW but becasue of the whole store and char development mechanics that WoW lacked. WoW was and still is a very good game but it's entry bar especially after WOTLK is set so low that litterly any one can pick it up - it is the farmvile of MMO's simple mechanics and instant and constant gratification via dings and shiny new loot.
ToR is quite diffrent allot of the gratification is designed to come from the story, and the story is a much more complex mechanic than most people who never played an RPG(Not an MMO) or another havy story title like some niche advanture games will be able to relate.
BioWare alltough it has it's own huge fan base is far from being Blizzard, not a single game company on the planet today even comes close to having the same fan base as Blizzard both in size and devotion, BioWare could never be able to pull an event the size of Blizzcon for example even with all the latest fans they got via the Dragon Age and Mass Effect Series, allot of people who play those games are not the sharpest fan in the shed, and many of them just got into the game due to marketing. And lets face it even tho both Mass Effect and Dragon Age are very good games, Mass Effect especialy is pretty much the most epic story driven game made so far due to its cinematic quality and tight game play they are far from being RPG masterpieces and both of them have a much lower entry bar than say NWN not to mention older games like BG or PST. So from the fan base POV the most they will be able to pull is people from the DA camp which like RPG's and never tried an MMO alltough i belive that since WoW there isn't that many people around that didn't tried an MMO and are still on the fence in that regard. WoW caused the MMO market to explode, it litterly increased the meaning of a successfull game ten fold, prior to WoW an MMO was considered a huge hit if it broke the 250K players mark, these days the bar is set in millions, WoW was an anomally which will never be repeated again for a long long time, i dont think a single MMO atleast as we know them today since eventually i think most if not all games will become an MMO of some sort will ever break a 12M mark again, probably wont break even the 6M mark. The whole market needs a reboot badly in order to withdraw from the WoW effect it has been under for some years now, and set back into the reallty in which 500K sub MMO's can be considered a succesfull game, and hopefully even give 200K~ MMO's a spot too.