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Seems like the game has peaked on XFire

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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Simply to get an honest response to a question. And yes i know the answer as well as you and the others here:)

    I am simply wiling to admit it. 

    You have something to confess?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Simply to get an honest response to a question. And yes i know the answer as well as you and the others here:)

    I am simply wiling to admit it. 

    You have something to confess?

    Already did:) can you?

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    She diserved it? He had the moral right in the self-defense of his sanity?

    Heh

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Already did:) can you?

    I'm sorry DarLorkar, I'm unaware of any nefarious secret you're trying to pin on me.

    Go on, construct the straw man, tell me what I think.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Already did:) can you?

    I'm sorry DarLorkar, I'm unaware of any nefarious secret you're trying to pin on me.

    Go on, construct the straw man, tell me what I think.

    Really do not have to do i?

    In the end it is what it is:)

    Call it what you like, but not answering can be an answer, yes?

     

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    I'm sorry DarLorkar, I'm unaware of any nefarious secret you're trying to pin on me.

    Go on, construct the straw man, tell me what I think.

    Really do not have to do i?

    In the end it is what it is:)

    Call it what you like, but not answering can be an answer, yes?

    Well, not in this case, since the only sensible answer to Begging the Question is to point out that it's a desperation move.

    But you can make up whatever you want to.  Have fun with that.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    I'm sorry DarLorkar, I'm unaware of any nefarious secret you're trying to pin on me.

    Go on, construct the straw man, tell me what I think.

    Really do not have to do i?

    In the end it is what it is:)

    Call it what you like, but not answering can be an answer, yes?

    Well, not in this case, since the only sensible answer to Begging the Question is to point out that it's a desperation move.

    But you can make up whatever you want to.  Have fun with that.

    Lol and if it is a "desperation move:?

    Could it be that behind it all, that at the end, people would rather argue about Begging questions or straw men or scientific un biased polls, than answer a question?

    Naw could not be that. But, but it is a trick question:)

    Yup, kind of like all the arguments about it being unscientific. biased. and not representing the whole population that may play a game.

    Talking about 2 different things:)

     

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    I see you left off the last part there:P

     

    SO here you go:

    But how about if your life depended on seeing trends in games, and all you have is exactly what we have? X-fire and a few other sites like it? Can you honestly say that you would ignore it completely?



    You would rather not have any info at all? even if it was unscientific and biased? You would prefer a coin flip? 

     

    Care to answer that honsetly? Anyone?

    Because the last part is nothing but extreme sensationalism that serves no actual purpose, adds nothing to the discussion, and refutes nothing.  You are engaging in obfuscation tactics rather than arguing with facts.

    I would like to note that you didn't even attempt to refute any of my statements.



    Umm becaue i do not like to make huge quote posts. I do not like to re-write others words nor post inside their posts:)but if you insist i will soon as you honestly answer that last question:P

    It is just a small question after all:) It even represents the facts we have. It IS all the info we have. And yes it serves a perfect purpose:)

    We will see if this is all just an intellectual  exercise or if people will be honest.

    Sorry, your baiting attempt fails.  Again, I don't deal in sensationalism, unlike you.

    I also won't be holding my breath that you actually do try to refute any of my prior statements.  Because I know you can't.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    O



    I am baaack:P

    Do not care what people use it. Not looking for anything other than that SOME people thast MUSt own and PLAY the game use it.

    That you can see over a given time period how many hours are logged.

    You can see if that stays the same, goes up, or goes down.

    If those swings are big enough, then you can and will see a trend towards that game there on x-fire.  That is true.  The trend can only be seen WITHIN X-fire using community.

    And are x-fire member not playing games? So as well as being members of x-fire, they are members of the overall population that are playing the game.  So are you saying that you will never see the same trends on x-fire AND the overall population of a game?

    Dismissing it, because you can not prove it to a certainty is foolish:) Depending on it absolutely is foolsih. 

    All we as gamers have are places like x-fire and others that we have to watch and add together to see trends of the people that use progams like x-fire on games.  I fixed that for you to make it truthful.

    No you changed ti to match your own beliefs, that is all.

    Anyone that says you can not see trends from these sites are not being honest.  Trends WITHIN the user base of those sites... yes.  Trends OUTSIDE the user base of those sites... completely false.

    Competely fasle umm, really? Again, you would never see them match the x-fire trends and those outside in the whole population of a game? OK..

    Instead they attack it through the math or bias or whatever:P

    No it is not and never can be 100% accurate, but how about 75%? or even just 55%? Can they say with 100% accuracy that it is NOT showing trends? No.  It's called non-existant sampling procedures.  That makes it useless for trying to apply it on anything outside of it's own userbase.  Really, if you had taken any sort of statistics course you would've learned that.  You would also learn that sampling proceedures are never 100% accurate.  But, they are used to try to make the sample population as close to the total population in characteristics and composition as possible.  Thus, reducing one more extraneous variable that would taint the measured data.  There are none of those when trying to compare X-fire user trends with the non-X-fire using population.

    Whew lots of big words there.. lets see.. can you say that  x-fire trends do not match trends in the games overall population? ever?

    So trying to compare it to a 100% unbiased scientific poll of the whole gaming population of the world is just as wrong as saying that x-fire alone can predict anything 100% accurately.

    We have what we have, and we have to use that. And we have to take the fact that we will NEVER have it perfect either way. Just use what we have in the best and most honest way we can.  Using crap data to make a decision makes the decision crap.

    Or maybe using the data we have is better than not having any data and guessing?

    To those that want to dismiss it, fine:)  I think you are wrong.   And not being honest if you say that you can learn nothing from it at all  Which would make you wrong.  There is plenty to learn from the data.  But, only if applied WITHIN the X-fire using population.

    And again you say we learn something but it means nothing:) ok.

     

     

    I see you left off the last part there:P

     

    SO here you go:

    But how about if your life depended on seeing trends in games, and all you have is exactly what we have? X-fire and a few other sites like it? Can you honestly say that you would ignore it completely?



    You would rather not have any info at all? even if it was unscientific and biased? You would prefer a coin flip? 

     

    Care to answer that honsetly? Anyone?

     

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Kaocan

    So if that is true, and we use it ALL the time (just check your local media outlet for proof), then why shouldn't we use X-Fire to track and prove trends on selective MMORPG games? Its about as un-biased.

    Because XFire isn't a polling metric. It's just a tracker.

    Also, polling companies use verifiable metrics. XFire doesn't. The pollsters also have certain demographics they aim for (registered  voters, age ranges, incomes, ZIP codes and precincts, etc.) and can effectively create trends of the same demographics in the same area over months, or even years. 

    XFire doesn't offer any of that. It's just a gameplay tracker with no regard for where a player is, who they are, the demographic they belong to,  or anything else. Furthermore, unlike a political poll, which is entirely random since anyone living in a particular area can be polled, XFire is self-selected. The only people who are tracked are the people who install and use the software in the background as they play.

    Using XFire as proof of anything is pretty much the same as using an online survey on LiveJournal to make an argument. It might have some emotional weight, but as an actual statistical poll? Not so much.

  • dubyahitedubyahite Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    400 posts later and we are still arguing basic statistics. I feel like some of you should be getting college credits for this....

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  • Zlayer77Zlayer77 Member Posts: 826

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by onthestick

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    A few days isn't a trend.  I know, we're all dying to say "I told you so!" but really need to wait a month at least, to see any real indication of the game popularity increasing, decreasing, or even leveling off.  Three months to be sure it won't turn around, and six months before it'll really be indisputable.

    Really people actually wait for that? makes me just sad thinking about the mentality some people have.

    Why? The game is a shallow Themepark and there are a lot of us who are tired of lack of innovation in the genre. A failure on SW:TOR would give a signal to the industry that they cannot copy paste game mechanics and need to start thinking outside of the box.

    Yes the fail of this game is very very Important, Because if it fails we might Finaly see some innovation on the genre, and it has been a long time coming.. The last time was back in 2004.. its been 7 years of stagnation and boardom.... for anyone with a brain (and not a rabid fanboy)

    My guess though is that Blizzard will do it. in 2-3 years they will launch a new MMO, and it will have all the shit we want, It will send all the other developers heads spinning and then we have another 10 years of copy cat land before Blizzard makes a third MMO. It really is fucking sad that the Industry are lacking so badly in talent and brains...

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

     Are you really saying that you could not see some info?

    The only thing you're going to see is self-selected information about XFire users. You're not going to get anywhere close to an accurate picture one way or the other.

    As a statistical tool, that makes it useless.

    How do you then explain that XFire trends has accurately shown every major change for every major MMORPG being played?

    If it is useless then how come it is showing WoW as heads and shoulders above all other MMORPGS?

    If it is useless then how come it shown the 10% drop in WoW subs around the same time when Blizzard said they lost 1 million subs?

    If it is useless then how come it showed Rift peaking and then going steeply down? Something seen in the server population of that game?

    If it is useless then how come it has shown the boom of users when several dying MMORPGs went F2P?

    If it is useless then how come it has shown the immense popularity of arena based PvP games like LoL?

    If it is useless then how come it has shown the stability and steady growing of subs in EvE?

    I could go on and on but the fact is that XFire has accurately predicted alot of trends. Now if that qualifies as a statisticial tool I dont care, it is giving me interesting information about the popularity of games and how they are changing.

    But hey, you are perfectly welcome and ignore it since you have alot more accurate tools at your disposal right?

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  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

     Are you really saying that you could not see some info?

    The only thing you're going to see is self-selected information about XFire users. You're not going to get anywhere close to an accurate picture one way or the other.

    As a statistical tool, that makes it useless.

    How do you then explain that XFire trends has accurately shown every major change for every major MMORPG being played?

    If it is useless then how come it is showing WoW as heads and shoulders above all other MMORPGS?

    If it is useless then how come it shown the 10% drop in WoW subs around the same time when Blizzard said they lost 1 million subs?

    If it is useless then how come it showed Rift peaking and then going steeply down? Something seen in the server population of that game?

    If it is useless then how come it has shown the boom of users when several dying MMORPGs went F2P?

    If it is useless then how come it has shown the immense popularity of arena based PvP games like LoL?

    If it is useless then how come it has shown the stability and steady growing of subs in EvE?

    I could go on and on but the fact is that XFire has accurately predicted alot of trends. Now if that qualifies as a statisticial tool I dont care, it is giving me interesting information about the popularity of games and how they are changing.

    But hey, you are perfectly welcome and ignore it since you have alot more accurate tools at your disposal right?

    Provide links as your stories mean nothing for proof.  Especialy since you are EXTREMELY biased towards X-fire.

  • EliandalEliandal Member Posts: 796

    Originally posted by Zeblade

    Wow I dont know anyone that uses Xfire anymore so I sure would never go by that.

     

      Well, apparently 10 843 people were using it yesterday, and tracking 4 366 650 minutes of play.  Not too bad for a game that has 'peaked' :D

  • DOGMA1138DOGMA1138 Member UncommonPosts: 476

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Yamota

    How do you then explain that XFire trends has accurately shown every major change for every major MMORPG being played?

    Wow.

    I'm sorry that the fact that XFire wouldn't be considered a legitimate statistical tool bothers you so much. Still, the fact remains that it's not. It might be useful for tracking its user base, but as a reflection of the MMO industry as a whole, it's lacking. Why? Because it lacks the rigor and verifiability of a proper statistical sample. All the rants in the world won't change that. Talk to a statistics professor sometime. They'll help explain it.

    Further, as I've said repeatedly, saying ANYTHING definitive about the state of TOR  just days after its official launch and before the first free month ends is stupid. It's simply far too soon for anyone to know the real state of the game. We need to let the initial novelty of the launch die down. We need to let things play out and let people actually start getting charged subscription fees before any real trends in TOR start to emerge. There is simply no way to know what the staying power of the game is before then.

     

     

  • PelaajaPelaaja Member Posts: 697

    Looks like it is closing the highest hours (74088h) done on Dec 21st.

    Dec 30th number is 72777h.

    The short term graph is steady as ever, but still too early to draw conclusions whether it has ultimately peaked or hasn't.

    image

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.



    Ok, just point us into the direction of this mythical beast you folks keep talking about.

    You know the un-biased scientific poll of the whole gaming population .. oh wait, it is mythical because there is no such animal.

    But x-fire is not a poll in the first place.. yet, it keeps getting compared to this mythical beast that is, well mythical.

    But it does not take ME into account becuase i do not use x-fire..

    Well does the Mythical.. well no since it does not exist.

    Heh all this time telling us what we need, but can never have. To prove we CAN NOT use what we have because it is not this perect thing.

    But we are the ones that need to go take a class:)

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.



    Ok, just point us into the direction of this mythical beast you folks keep talking about.

    You know the un-biased scientific poll of the whole gaming population .. oh wait, it is mythical because there is no such animal.  Because there is currently no such "animal" does not refute our position.  It's just another extraneous variable that needs to be squashed before X-fire data can be used outside of the X-fire userbase.

    But x-fire is not a poll in the first place.. yet, it keeps getting compared to this mythical beast that is, well mythical.  This sensational crap is getting out of hand.  Seriously, "mythical beast"?  Go learn about statistical analysis rules before you reply again.

    But it does not take ME into account becuase i do not use x-fire..

    Well does the Mythical.. well no since it does not exist.

    Heh all this time telling us what we need, but can never have. To prove we CAN NOT use what we have because it is not this perect thing.

    But we are the ones that need to go take a class:)  That is true.  The people who are defending X-fire as a statistical tool to be used outside of the the X-fire userbase do need to take a class in statistics.  Because, you are all spouting stuff that goes against every statistical analysis rule.

     

  • DOGMA1138DOGMA1138 Member UncommonPosts: 476

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.



    Ok, just point us into the direction of this mythical beast you folks keep talking about.

    You know the un-biased scientific poll of the whole gaming population .. oh wait, it is mythical because there is no such animal.

    But x-fire is not a poll in the first place.. yet, it keeps getting compared to this mythical beast that is, well mythical.

    But it does not take ME into account becuase i do not use x-fire..

    Well does the Mythical.. well no since it does not exist.

    Heh all this time telling us what we need, but can never have. To prove we CAN NOT use what we have because it is not this perect thing.

    But we are the ones that need to go take a class:)

    The fact that there isnt a better dataset for analysis than xfire doesnt make it any more relevant, the same way is that if my only information about gun conrol comes from the NRA website doesnt not mean i can use it if i am going to write an essay on gun control laws.

    Xfire data shows how many Xfire users play ToR, Xfire is not popular in many contries, it is not popular with many players, infact it's demographic is very skewed towards the early to mid teens while MMO demographics are much more ballanced age wise. Yes it has predicted that WoW was one of the most played games in the world, wow Xfire has 20mil registred users, 80-100K concurent online users on average, and WoW had around 7M players in NA,EU and OC at the time, so what?

    Lets look at the top games on Xfire

    League of Legends

    Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

    World of Warcraft

    Star Wars: The Old Republic

    Call of Duty 2

    Battlefield 3

    Minecraft

    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

    Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

    Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Multiplayer

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

     

    Now do you see how wrong wrong worng you are? You have games like CoD2, and GTA:SA on the top 10 list... now according to your tought proccess you wold say that they have allmost as many subs/player as WoW or use your brain and figure that the current comminities that support old games like GTA:SA and old games that never even sold well like CoD:2 are very xfire centric.... and thats why they are on that list, and yes if you are still thinking you can use xfire data which has games like CoD:2 allmost logging the same amount of hours as ToR and WoW and say ToR is not doing well or WoW is sinking based on that info you are either not very bright to say the least or a fanboy of i realy dont know what...

     

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Vato26

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.



    Ok, just point us into the direction of this mythical beast you folks keep talking about.

    You know the un-biased scientific poll of the whole gaming population .. oh wait, it is mythical because there is no such animal.  Because there is currently no such "animal" does not refute our position.  It's just another extraneous variable that needs to be squashed before X-fire data can be used outside of the X-fire userbase.

    But x-fire is not a poll in the first place.. yet, it keeps getting compared to this mythical beast that is, well mythical.  This sensational crap is getting out of hand.  Seriously, "mythical beast"?  Go learn about statistical analysis rules before you reply again.

    But it does not take ME into account becuase i do not use x-fire..

    Well does the Mythical.. well no since it does not exist.

    Heh all this time telling us what we need, but can never have. To prove we CAN NOT use what we have because it is not this perect thing.

    But we are the ones that need to go take a class:)  That is true.  The people who are defending X-fire as a statistical tool to be used outside of the the X-fire userbase do need to take a class in statistics.  Because, you are all spouting stuff that goes against every statistical analysis rule.

     



    You really do not give up do you?:)

    Why would i bother to go take a class about statistical analysis ? Would that produce what you keep harping about?

    No.

    We do not have it.

    Not gonna get it.

    X-fire can and does show trends. How accurate it is is a guess. But it is a whole lot more accurate than the "Mythical" ( hey i like that word) un-biased scientifice poll of the whole gaming world.. that we do not have nor will likely ever have.

    So from my stand point. It seems something real you can look at and see, kinda beats what you have..

     

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.



    Ok, just point us into the direction of this mythical beast you folks keep talking about.

    You know the un-biased scientific poll of the whole gaming population .. oh wait, it is mythical because there is no such animal.

    But x-fire is not a poll in the first place.. yet, it keeps getting compared to this mythical beast that is, well mythical.

    But it does not take ME into account becuase i do not use x-fire..

    Well does the Mythical.. well no since it does not exist.

    Heh all this time telling us what we need, but can never have. To prove we CAN NOT use what we have because it is not this perect thing.

    But we are the ones that need to go take a class:)

    The fact that there isnt a better dataset for analysis than xfire doesnt make it any more relevant, the same way is that if my only information about gun conrol comes from the NRA website doesnt not mean i can use it if i am going to write an essay on gun control laws.

    Xfire data shows how many Xfire users play ToR, Xfire is not popular in many contries, it is not popular with many players, infact it's demographic is very skewed towards the early to mid teens while MMO demographics are much more ballanced age wise. Yes it has predicted that WoW was one of the most played games in the world, wow Xfire has 20mil registred users, 80-100K concurent online users on average, and WoW had around 7M players in NA,EU and OC at the time, so what?

    Lets look at the top games on Xfire

    League of Legends

    Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

    World of Warcraft

    Star Wars: The Old Republic

    Call of Duty 2

    Battlefield 3

    Minecraft

    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

    Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

    Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Multiplayer

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

     

    Now do you see how wrong wrong worng you are? You have games like CoD2, and GTA:SA on the top 10 list... now according to your tought proccess you wold say that they have allmost as many subs/player as WoW or use your brain and figure that the current comminities that support old games like GTA:SA and old games that never even sold well like CoD:2 are very xfire centric.... and thats why they are on that list, and yes if you are still thinking you can use xfire data which has games like CoD:2 allmost logging the same amount of hours as ToR and WoW and say ToR is not doing well or WoW is sinking based on that info you are either not very bright to say the least or a fanboy of i realy dont know what...

     



    OMG, who said we were using it to say how many sub players there are? I never did.

    I said then and now, that it can show TRENDS.. You know how many players are playing and how long that goes on over time?

    If it trends up or down or stays flat says nothing of the amount of subs. It will just show trends on how many people on x-fire are playing a game during that time frame.

     

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by Vato26

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by DOGMA1138

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

    By that logic no polling mechanism would be relevant because "not everyone was answering the poll".

    No it's not, your "poll" is not how many people are playing ToR but how many xfire users are playing it, if you want to provide rellevant information analysis you need to select a relevant dataset, im pretty sure you highschool math class should've covered atleast basic group and graph theory.

    Xfire is far from being popular, and its user base is usually a niche to some extent mostly people who play allot of cross genere games frequently and or users who like to share with other people what they are doing ala twitter.

    I can make a poll displaying the popularity of the war in iraq, i can do a propper poll by asking people from diffrent demographic and social economic and political ragnes equal to their respective ration with in a said population. Or i can go to an NRA meeting or an "Occupy WallStreet" meeting and get my polling data from there... Which one of the polls do you think will be not only more accurate but actually relevant?

    I play allot of games and i've never been asked if i have a xfire account, when asked for any IRL contact info it used to be MSN/Skype/ICQ what ever and now it's mostly facebook. So no xfire is not a tool to measure any thing but what an xfire user is playing.... and considering that Xfire now has less than 100k online users during peak hours i would say it is irrelevant as it ever was.



    Ok, just point us into the direction of this mythical beast you folks keep talking about.

    You know the un-biased scientific poll of the whole gaming population .. oh wait, it is mythical because there is no such animal.  Because there is currently no such "animal" does not refute our position.  It's just another extraneous variable that needs to be squashed before X-fire data can be used outside of the X-fire userbase.

    But x-fire is not a poll in the first place.. yet, it keeps getting compared to this mythical beast that is, well mythical.  This sensational crap is getting out of hand.  Seriously, "mythical beast"?  Go learn about statistical analysis rules before you reply again.

    But it does not take ME into account becuase i do not use x-fire..

    Well does the Mythical.. well no since it does not exist.

    Heh all this time telling us what we need, but can never have. To prove we CAN NOT use what we have because it is not this perect thing.

    But we are the ones that need to go take a class:)  That is true.  The people who are defending X-fire as a statistical tool to be used outside of the the X-fire userbase do need to take a class in statistics.  Because, you are all spouting stuff that goes against every statistical analysis rule.

     



    You really do not give up do you?:)  Not when the facts are completely on my side.

    Why would i bother to go take a class about statistical analysis ?  So you would learn something about statistical analysis instead of you keeping on supporting non-existant statistical procedures.  Would that produce what you keep harping about?

    No.

    We do not have it.  Irrelevant.

    Not gonna get it.  Irrelevant.

    X-fire can and does show trends within the X-fire using community. How accurate it is is a guess. But it is a whole lot more accurate than the "Mythical" ( hey i like that word) un-biased scientifice poll of the whole gaming world.. that we do not have nor will likely ever have.  Even more sensational nonsense.

    So from my stand point. It seems something real you can look at and see, kinda beats what you have..  Nope.  All you are doing is proving me right on the statement that the only people who try to use X-fire to link to non-X-fire using community are only doing for their self-serving biases.

     

     

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082



    You really do not give up do you?:)  Not when the facts are completely on my side.

    Why would i bother to go take a class about statistical analysis ?  So you would learn something about statistical analysis instead of you keeping on supporting non-existant statistical procedures.  Would that produce what you keep harping about?

    No.

    We do not have it.  Irrelevant.

    Not gonna get it.  Irrelevant.

    X-fire can and does show trends within the X-fire using community. How accurate it is is a guess. But it is a whole lot more accurate than the "Mythical" ( hey i like that word) un-biased scientifice poll of the whole gaming world.. that we do not have nor will likely ever have.  Even more sensational nonsense.

    So from my stand point. It seems something real you can look at and see, kinda beats what you have..  Nope.  All you are doing is proving me right on the statement that the only people who try to use X-fire to link to non-X-fire using community are only doing for their self-serving biases.

     

    Heh only thing i am proving is that x-fire shows trends:)

     

This discussion has been closed.