Seems like the game has peaked on XFire

Doomedfox

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by smh_alot

@Teala: See? Told you. That was exactly the way I expected you to react, squirming away from the examples given -_-

 

So, let me ask you once again and let's pinpoint: if we can give examples where the Xfire figures are not representative for a game's health, like subs are going up but Xfire isn't showing it, or subs and player activity is the same but Xfire doesn't show it instead Xfire numbers are going up or down, then that's the example you're looking for?

 

For the record, I don't believe one inch that you'll honor this so called promise of yours, my bet is that you'll squirm away from the promise and keep adding exclusions, like you're doing now, saying that 'oh, but if Xfire isn't showing the STO figures properly bc of various clients, then that doesn't count'. Thing is, he didn't say the figures weren't shown AT ALL, like that Farmville example you gave, he said that the figure wasn't accurate anymore because it showed a drop off, not a complete disappearance, of player numbers and hours. A drop off that wasn't happening in reality.

You take a game that cannot be measured on xfire and use it as a means to argue your point.  Right.  No I will not honor this.   I am not squirming my way out of anything.  If anything you are trying to take a game that cannot be measured on xfire and pointing to it and going see!  LMAO!

 

Just lame....

 

Teala

Originally posted by Doomedfox

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by smh_alot

@Teala: See? Told you. That was exactly the way I expected you to react, squirming away from the examples given -_-

 

So, let me ask you once again and let's pinpoint: if we can give examples where the Xfire figures are not representative for a game's health, like subs are going up but Xfire isn't showing it, or subs and player activity is the same but Xfire doesn't show it instead Xfire numbers are going up or down, then that's the example you're looking for?

 

For the record, I don't believe one inch that you'll honor this so called promise of yours, my bet is that you'll squirm away from the promise and keep adding exclusions, like you're doing now, saying that 'oh, but if Xfire isn't showing the STO figures properly bc of various clients, then that doesn't count'. Thing is, he didn't say the figures weren't shown AT ALL, like that Farmville example you gave, he said that the figure wasn't accurate anymore because it showed a drop off, not a complete disappearance, of player numbers and hours. A drop off that wasn't happening in reality.

You take a game that cannot be measured on xfire and use it as a means to argue your point.  Right.  No I will not honor this.   I am not squirming my way out of anything.  If anything you are trying to take a game that cannot be measured on xfire and pointing to it and going see!  LMAO!

 

Just lame....

 

Not lame.  Nice try though, trying to take an untrackable game and trying to use it for your argument. 

Doomedfox

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Doomedfox

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by smh_alot

@Teala: See? Told you. That was exactly the way I expected you to react, squirming away from the examples given -_-

 

So, let me ask you once again and let's pinpoint: if we can give examples where the Xfire figures are not representative for a game's health, like subs are going up but Xfire isn't showing it, or subs and player activity is the same but Xfire doesn't show it instead Xfire numbers are going up or down, then that's the example you're looking for?

 

For the record, I don't believe one inch that you'll honor this so called promise of yours, my bet is that you'll squirm away from the promise and keep adding exclusions, like you're doing now, saying that 'oh, but if Xfire isn't showing the STO figures properly bc of various clients, then that doesn't count'. Thing is, he didn't say the figures weren't shown AT ALL, like that Farmville example you gave, he said that the figure wasn't accurate anymore because it showed a drop off, not a complete disappearance, of player numbers and hours. A drop off that wasn't happening in reality.

You take a game that cannot be measured on xfire and use it as a means to argue your point.  Right.  No I will not honor this.   I am not squirming my way out of anything.  If anything you are trying to take a game that cannot be measured on xfire and pointing to it and going see!  LMAO!

 

Just lame....

 

Not lame.  Nice try though, trying to take an untrackable game and trying to use it for your argument. 

I wonder how a loss of 90% means it wasnt trackable?

What happens to the last 10% that were still tracked they dont count?

I dunno if Xfire stopped tracking the game some time after the Patch that messed up the numbers but i doesnt matter it seems that it did show wrong numbers for some time which is 100% what you wanted to see.

Again i dont care if you stop posting about Xfire or not i just wonder how you think that you can be taken serious in the future if you dont honor your words?

I for one know that i would just ignore all you say since a person who cant honor there own words is just a joke.

smh_alot

@Teala: STO wasn't untrackable, it only didn't track all the Xfire STO players. So the example was good, you just don't like to admit it. Furthermore, you ignored my question 3 times now, where I ask you to be more specific in your request, since the only thing I see is you squirming away from your own bet by adding all these exceptions to what you're asking for. What examples in concrete are you looking for? Specifics.

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else, every time someone makes such a promise or claim with a dishonest motivation behind it, they'll always try to walk away from their own bets and promises :-)

Disappointing though. Sounds like only baiting to me, instead of really wanting to be provided examples.

nikoliath

Originally posted by smh_alot

@Teala: STO wasn't untrackable, it only didn't track all the Xfire STO players. So the example was good, you just don't like to admit it. Furthermore, you ignored my question 3 times now, where I ask you to be more specific in your request, since the only thing I see is you squirming away from your own bet by adding all these exceptions to what you're asking for. What examples in concrete are you looking for? Specifics.

 

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else, every time someone makes such a promise or claim with a dishonest motivation behind it, they'll always try to walk away from their own bets and promises :-)

 

Disappointing though. Sounds like only baiting to me, instead of really wanting to be provided examples.

baiting for sure. There a few people here that have some sort of OCD when it comes to trashing a game and it's fans

Kaocan

Originally posted by Fratman

Originally posted by Kaocan

 Lets hear from the people who are playing, who see what is really happening on thier servers. Give the 'I think'  and 'I believe'  a rest for a bit so we can get some real facts from people who know first hand. 

lol. Because logging into a server gives you special and factual insight on subscription numbers.

I think I'm gonna go with my super scientific analysis and say TOR is tanking because every single message board, including the main swtor forums, has this game getting ripped apart. I've never seen such bad word of mouth for a game that's supposedly doing great.

NO, my point is a very simple one, and yet mised by a mile by so many.

 

Night and Day man, Night and Day. The stark difference bwteen what the people who play this game see every day as they play it, and what the other side sees on the outside. Looking at data pages on the web, reading forum posts from people who dont even play the game, formulating concepts and 'scientific analysis' based off numbers pulled from this site or that. No, what you see, looking in from the outside is 1000% different than what the players (the people who ARE playing right now) see. 

You confirm that with your post right here. The opinions of people who no longer play a game or whom have never played a game at all, those opinions are what you are quoting as fact about the state of the game. Granted, when enough of those people complain (Occupy Wallstreet comes to mind) then people will start to believe there is a problem with it. Even those with no first hand knowledge of something can effect it if they scream loud enough. 

A Quote from way back, many, many years ago - you want to enjoy a game...you play it - you want to hate a game...read about it on the forums. A quote proven so true even to this day because the people who are loving thier game are playing it, those who do not are talking about it on the forums. 

As for the X-Fire numbers, they are only as factual as you wish to make them, period. Any set of numbers taken from a random sampling of the populace (or in X-Fire's case, a very small select group of the populace), can be used to form ANY opinion you want to support. Another point proven in this thread right here, and tons of others just like it over the years on every game which has ever been tracked on X-Fire.

I'm sure Teala was around on here long enough to remember us all being schooled on X-Fire by the infamous Zorndorf. I'm still in shock however how she turned out to be his successor after his departure. 

 

(Oh and just a tid bit on my opinion on this issue. Over this last 2 weeks in game, in my guild of over 250 people, I have asked multiple times daily how many use X-Fire. Have yet to get a yes response...take it however you wish, but thats how accurate I see X-Fire numbers.)

Teala

Originally posted by smh_alot

@Teala: STO wasn't untrackable, it only didn't track all the Xfire STO players. So the example was good, you just don't like to admit it. Furthermore, you ignored my question 3 times now, where I ask you to be more specific in your request, since the only thing I see is you squirming away from your own bet by adding all these exceptions to what you're asking for. What examples in concrete are you looking for? Specifics.

 

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else, every time someone makes such a promise or claim with a dishonest motivation behind it, they'll always try to walk away from their own bets and promises :-)

 

Disappointing though. Sounds like only baiting to me, instead of really wanting to be provided examples.

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately.   Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.  

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game.   With that said, I am done with this thread for now.  You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.  

smh_alot

Originally posted by Teala

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately. Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game. With that said, I am done with this thread for now. You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.

I couldn't give a damn about disproving that Xfire works or whether you want to keep using it or not, I don't think in black & whites like you seem to do, 'XFire is ALWAYS representative for player activity!' or 'if others disagree with me, then they don't like Xfire!'

The reality is that Xfire is just a tool that a number of players use, and like any tool it has limitations and situations where it isn't representative. I use Xfire myself for trend analysis, but for me it's just ONE of the available tools with which such thing is possible, and I have no problem acknowledging that Xfire has its limitations and flaws and sometimes downright quirks, something that you almost desperately seem to want to ignore, probably because of that foolish bet/promise that you keep changing.

But you want some more examples to ignore? Fine:

- in 2009, EVE Online reported 300k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 4500

- beginning 2011, EVE reported 360k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 2000

Xfire: shows a drastic loss, almost 50% of its EVE players!

CCP and the real situation: an increase of 50-60k subs

- in end of 2008/beginning 2009, WoW shows somewhere around 400-450k hours for WoW. Subs around that time are around 11million

- beginning of 2011, WoW has somewhere around 11.5-12 million subs, Xfire registers around the 200k hours for WoW

WoW shows a slight increase or at least stability in actual subs, Xfire however shows a 50% decrease, if Xfire is to be believed WoW has lost more than half of its playerbase from 2009-2011.

There you go. I have no doubt though that you'll find new ways to negate your own promise and request for examples, seeing how unjust you treated the examples already given.

Vato26

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by smh_alot

@Teala: STO wasn't untrackable, it only didn't track all the Xfire STO players. So the example was good, you just don't like to admit it. Furthermore, you ignored my question 3 times now, where I ask you to be more specific in your request, since the only thing I see is you squirming away from your own bet by adding all these exceptions to what you're asking for. What examples in concrete are you looking for? Specifics.

 

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else, every time someone makes such a promise or claim with a dishonest motivation behind it, they'll always try to walk away from their own bets and promises :-)

 

Disappointing though. Sounds like only baiting to me, instead of really wanting to be provided examples.

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately.   Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.  

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game.   With that said, I am done with this thread for now.  You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.  

Actually, they have.

nikoliath

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Teala

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately. Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game. With that said, I am done with this thread for now. You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.

 

I couldn't give a damn about disproving that Xfire works or whether you want to keep using it or not, I don't think in black & whites like you seem to do, 'XFire is ALWAYS representative for player activity!' or 'if others disagree with me, then they don't like Xfire!'

 

The reality is that Xfire is just a tool that a number of players use, and like any tool it has limitations and situations where it isn't representative. I use Xfire myself for trend analysis, but for me it's just ONE of the available tools with which such thing is possible, and I have no problem acknowledging that Xfire has its limitations and flaws and sometimes downright quirks, something that you almost desperately seem to want to ignore, probably because of that foolish bet/promise that you keep changing.

 

But you want some more examples to ignore? Fine:

 

- in 2009, EVE Online reported 300k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 4500

 

- beginning 2011, EVE reported 360k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 2000

 

Xfire: shows a drastic loss, almost 50% of its EVE players!

 

CCP and the real situation: an increase of 50-60k subs

 

- in end of 2008/beginning 2009, WoW shows somewhere around 400-450k hours for WoW. Subs around that time are around 11million

 

- beginning of 2011, WoW has somewhere around 11.5-12 million subs, Xfire registers around the 200k hours for WoW

 

WoW shows a slight increase or at least stability in actual subs, Xfire however shows a 50% decrease, if Xfire is to be believed WoW has lost more than half of its playerbase from 2009-2011.

 

There you go. I have no doubt though that you'll find new ways to negate your own promise and request for examples, seeing how unjust you treated the examples already given.

let me get you a drink sir. 

Cavod

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Teala

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately. Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game. With that said, I am done with this thread for now. You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.

 

I couldn't give a damn about disproving that Xfire works or whether you want to keep using it or not, I don't think in black & whites like you seem to do, 'XFire is ALWAYS representative for player activity!' or 'if others disagree with me, then they don't like Xfire!'

 

The reality is that Xfire is just a tool that a number of players use, and like any tool it has limitations and situations where it isn't representative. I use Xfire myself for trend analysis, but for me it's just ONE of the available tools with which such thing is possible, and I have no problem acknowledging that Xfire has its limitations and flaws and sometimes downright quirks, something that you almost desperately seem to want to ignore, probably because of that foolish bet/promise that you keep changing.

 

But you want some more examples to ignore? Fine:

 

- in 2009, EVE Online reported 300k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 4500

 

- beginning 2011, EVE reported 360k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 2000

 

Xfire: shows a drastic loss, almost 50% of its EVE players!

 

CCP and the real situation: an increase of 50-60k subs

 

- in end of 2008/beginning 2009, WoW shows somewhere around 400-450k hours for WoW. Subs around that time are around 11million

 

- beginning of 2011, WoW has somewhere around 11.5-12 million subs, Xfire registers around the 200k hours for WoW

 

WoW shows a slight increase or at least stability in actual subs, Xfire however shows a 50% decrease, if Xfire is to be believed WoW has lost more than half of its playerbase from 2009-2011.

 

There you go. I have no doubt though that you'll find new ways to negate your own promise and request for examples, seeing how unjust you treated the examples already given.

let me get you a drink sir. 

I'll buy the desserts.

DLangley

Let's stop the baiting, thanks.

holdenhamlet

Originally posted by Cavod

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Teala

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately. Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game. With that said, I am done with this thread for now. You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.

 

I couldn't give a damn about disproving that Xfire works or whether you want to keep using it or not, I don't think in black & whites like you seem to do, 'XFire is ALWAYS representative for player activity!' or 'if others disagree with me, then they don't like Xfire!'

 

The reality is that Xfire is just a tool that a number of players use, and like any tool it has limitations and situations where it isn't representative. I use Xfire myself for trend analysis, but for me it's just ONE of the available tools with which such thing is possible, and I have no problem acknowledging that Xfire has its limitations and flaws and sometimes downright quirks, something that you almost desperately seem to want to ignore, probably because of that foolish bet/promise that you keep changing.

 

But you want some more examples to ignore? Fine:

 

- in 2009, EVE Online reported 300k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 4500

 

- beginning 2011, EVE reported 360k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 2000

 

Xfire: shows a drastic loss, almost 50% of its EVE players!

 

CCP and the real situation: an increase of 50-60k subs

 

- in end of 2008/beginning 2009, WoW shows somewhere around 400-450k hours for WoW. Subs around that time are around 11million

 

- beginning of 2011, WoW has somewhere around 11.5-12 million subs, Xfire registers around the 200k hours for WoW

 

WoW shows a slight increase or at least stability in actual subs, Xfire however shows a 50% decrease, if Xfire is to be believed WoW has lost more than half of its playerbase from 2009-2011.

 

There you go. I have no doubt though that you'll find new ways to negate your own promise and request for examples, seeing how unjust you treated the examples already given.

let me get you a drink sir. 

I'll buy the desserts.

2 things- First, I'm not sure they have x-fire in China and that's where the majority of WoW's subs come from.  The Eve thing is weird but nonetheless, x-fire has been the first indicator of the demise of every new MMO since AOC.  It's not quite clear why it's so accurate, and hell if I know why anybody would use it for an MMO, but regardless, it has been very accurate.

The accuracy may diminish as time goes on and the game has been out for awhile, which would explain the Eve numbers.

Vato26

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

Originally posted by Cavod

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Teala

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately. Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game. With that said, I am done with this thread for now. You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.

 

I couldn't give a damn about disproving that Xfire works or whether you want to keep using it or not, I don't think in black & whites like you seem to do, 'XFire is ALWAYS representative for player activity!' or 'if others disagree with me, then they don't like Xfire!'

 

The reality is that Xfire is just a tool that a number of players use, and like any tool it has limitations and situations where it isn't representative. I use Xfire myself for trend analysis, but for me it's just ONE of the available tools with which such thing is possible, and I have no problem acknowledging that Xfire has its limitations and flaws and sometimes downright quirks, something that you almost desperately seem to want to ignore, probably because of that foolish bet/promise that you keep changing.

 

But you want some more examples to ignore? Fine:

 

- in 2009, EVE Online reported 300k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 4500

 

- beginning 2011, EVE reported 360k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 2000

 

Xfire: shows a drastic loss, almost 50% of its EVE players!

 

CCP and the real situation: an increase of 50-60k subs

 

- in end of 2008/beginning 2009, WoW shows somewhere around 400-450k hours for WoW. Subs around that time are around 11million

 

- beginning of 2011, WoW has somewhere around 11.5-12 million subs, Xfire registers around the 200k hours for WoW

 

WoW shows a slight increase or at least stability in actual subs, Xfire however shows a 50% decrease, if Xfire is to be believed WoW has lost more than half of its playerbase from 2009-2011.

 

There you go. I have no doubt though that you'll find new ways to negate your own promise and request for examples, seeing how unjust you treated the examples already given.

let me get you a drink sir. 

I'll buy the desserts.

2 things- First, I'm not sure they have x-fire in China and that's where the majority of WoW's subs come from.  The Eve thing is weird but nonetheless, x-fire has been the first indicator of the demise of every new MMO since AOC.  It's not quite clear why it's so accurate, and hell if I know why anybody would use it for an MMO, but regardless, it has been very accurate.

The accuracy may diminish as time goes on and the game has been out for awhile, which would explain the Eve numbers.

Please provide proof of your statements.

Distaste

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

2 things- First, I'm not sure they have x-fire in China and that's where the majority of WoW's subs come from.  The Eve thing is weird but nonetheless, x-fire has been the first indicator of the demise of every new MMO since AOC.  It's not quite clear why it's so accurate, and hell if I know why anybody would use it for an MMO, but regardless, it has been very accurate.

The accuracy may diminish as time goes on and the game has been out for awhile, which would explain the Eve numbers.

Please provide proof of your statements.

A simple google search yields the EXACT same topics with the same arguments only with AOC, WAR, Aion, RIFT, etc instead of SWTOR.

http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=1391477

http://www.morpg.com/mobile/forums.cfm?ismb=1&threadId=310763

http://www.mpog.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2336697

http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/forums.cfm?ismb=1&threadId=267455

 

As for the WoW claims, those are well known. Blizzard used to give out exact figures of NA, EU, and Asian markets. Jan 2008 is the last time they did so and it was 2.5 million in NA, 2 million in EU, 1 million in assorted other territories, and 4.5 million in Asia. The bulk of their sub numbers were definitely from Asia. However many speculate that the NA/EU started to peak/decline and the Asian market increased so they decided to just combine all figures. The reason for this is it gives a big number and makes them look awesome, when in reality the asian side doesn't make them a ton of money like the NA/EU side. This could actually support the X-fire theory above that has Xfire numbers dipping while WoW gained subs since I don't think the Asian market uses X-fire.

 

I don't get what is so hard to understand. We've established that Xfire has been accurate for multiple major releases so while it might not be 100%, it does give us a form of data. There is secondary data from  SWTORArena and TORStatus that both back up that server populations have been on the decline. The argument that Bioware adjusted server population levels doesn't hold water as we would see a massive drop on the server population charts and we don't. Not to mention that the server population changes were made within the first 1-2 weeks, Jan 3rd is when declines started. The argument that Holidays caused the drop is also null. While they might have caused the initial big drop after Jan 2nd, the numbers should have evened out by now since it's been 3 weeks. The numbers continue to decline both on Xfire and the population checkers though, so it itsn't the holidays causing the continued decline.

SWTOR numbers are declining, whether it is subsriptions or time played, it isn't good. Players that play less and less eventually quit paying a sub. If you still think xfire isn't at least a half decent form of monitoring MMO populations then go read those threads I posted above. Plenty of people in those threads stating how Xfire isn't accurate, the game is fine, etc, its hilarious when you know the outcome. The writing is on the wall, if you choose to ignore it or not is up to you, it was known before SWTOR released that it would have retention issues since story is finite and they didn't promise much in the way of new retention mechanics.. Unless Bioware has a miracle patch in March the subs will continue to decline just like RIFT, WAR, AoC, and AION. The march patch might hold some but if it is anything like 1.1 it will be consumed long before new content can be implemented and we have D3, Secret World, and GW2 coming out to compete for players time.

dubyahite

Saying Xfire was wrong about WoW because it didn't track Asia just proves exactly what is wrong with Xfire.

What other groups aren't represented by XFire?

It may have proven to be exactly accurate in many situations in the past. That doesn't mean it always has or will be accurate about everything.

smh_alot

Originally posted by Distaste

As for the WoW claims, those are well known. Blizzard used to give out exact figures of NA, EU, and Asian markets. Jan 2008 is the last time they did so and it was 2.5 million in NA, 2 million in EU, 1 million in assorted other territories, and 4.5 million in Asia. The bulk of their sub numbers were definitely from Asia. However many speculate that the NA/EU started to peak/decline and the Asian market increased so they decided to just combine all figures. The reason for this is it gives a big number and makes them look awesome, when in reality the asian side doesn't make them a ton of money like the NA/EU side. This could actually support the X-fire theory above that has Xfire numbers dipping while WoW gained subs since I don't think the Asian market uses X-fire.

I don't get what is so hard to understand. We've established that Xfire has been accurate for multiple major releases so while it might not be 100%, it does give us a form of data. There is secondary data from SWTORArena and TORStatus that both back up that server populations have been on the decline. The argument that Bioware adjusted server population levels doesn't hold water as we would see a massive drop on the server population charts and we don't. Not to mention that the server population changes were made within the first 1-2 weeks, Jan 3rd is when declines started. The argument that Holidays caused the drop is also null. While they might have caused the initial big drop after Jan 2nd, the numbers should have evened out by now since it's been 3 weeks. The numbers continue to decline both on Xfire and the population checkers though, so it itsn't the holidays causing the continued decline.

We've also already established that Xfire has been inaccurate and wasn't representative of reality for multiple situations. If people ignore these additional factors, then Xfire becomes even less helpful than it can be. The WoW difference between 2009 and 2011 has little to do with Asia, the sharp observer would have already noticed that EVE - which has no Chinese half of its playerbase like WoW - showed roughly the same decrease in Xfire figures as WoW did, yet the reality was that both had experienced a slight increase in that time in subs and players.

There are also overall global trends in Xfire users, like an overall decrease in Xfire users over the years after a rise in years before: if people ignore those overall general trends in Xfire, then their figures and interpretations will be off.

As for swtorarena, those charts have already been proven false indicators by many sources and people, with even the chart creators themselves repeatedly stating and explaining what the flaws in their graphs are and why they don't equal player numbers. It's kind of odd how people use the charts for misinterpretation while completely ignoring what the chart creators, the persons who build them like they are, have said about them.

That said, I use Xfire as one of the tools as well for trend analysis. But if people want to use tools like that, at least do it with a proper respect and understanding of the data, and not just to further a biased agenda for using them. As for TOR, so far in Xfire it has seen a decrease after the free month ended and with its peak early January, but it has around the same player numbers for the moment as it had in its launch week. That's what a clear, objective view on Xfire data can give you, whether people want to trust on Xfire figures or not, at least do it right in an objective way and understanding of figures. We'll see how things continue in the upcoming weeks.

Rocketeer

Originally posted by dubyahite

Saying Xfire was wrong about WoW because it didn't track Asia just proves exactly what is wrong with Xfire.



What other groups aren't represented by XFire?



It may have proven to be exactly accurate in many situations in the past. That doesn't mean it always has or will be accurate about everything.

Postulating that because a significiant group for game A is not tracked, and thus game B must also have significiant untracked groups is not something that should be used as evidence imho ...

Xfire being unable to track games in Asia is totally a nonpoint for games that are not released in Asia. Summing up the arguments it goes like this:

 

1. Xfire absolute numbers only show short term developements due to changes in xfire userbase over time.

2. Xfire shows usage statistics mainly about players in western countries, and only of those using xfire.

3. How the subgroup of xfire users exactly correlates to the larger group of MMO gamers is unknown, but general trends seen in one group are often seen in the other aswell, especially in retrospect. Examples would be WoW being clear leader or extremely low pop games being very far down the ranking.

 

I think it can't be argued that its possible to see large trends on xfire bar technical problems with tracking(like STO had), the very fact that there is an argument back and forth wether there is an actual decline probably shows that the current population changes in ToR are outside the derivation of Xfire(i.e. they can be seen on a graph but people can't agree yet wether its noticeable ingame). Also people using xfire are alot more likely to own/play several games since the main point of xfire is cross game communication afaik, so there is a higher probability of an xfire user going back to play another game(after he got his initial fix) than say some guy who bought his first PC because he is a huge SW fan and wants to play this game.

 

Edit: Also the argument that even being right all the times in the past does not mean always being right in the future is a dubious argument, technicallly correct but completely ignoring probability. Just because the sun has risen every day for 4 billion years does after all also not mean it will rise tomorrow, it would be damn unlikely though. Exagerated example but you get my point.

moosecatlol

To anyone who has followed this thread, does anyone have a TL;DR version of how this thread became 70 pages?

Yamota

Well seems my initial prediction still stands. The game peaked at the end of Decembre and has steadily declined. Aprox. 25% drop in played hours and 20% drop in players playing on XFire.

See if this downwards trend changes but so far this game is behaving pretty much the same as other triple A themeparks.

Observe that I am only talking about XFire here, everyone can decide for themselves if they think this applies to the general population or not.

Yamota

Originally posted by moosecatlol

To anyone who has followed this thread, does anyone have a TL;DR version of how this thread became 70 pages?

I am not sure but there was some other XFire threads being closed by mods and directed to this one.

holdenhamlet

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

Originally posted by Cavod

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Teala

No it wasn't good and you can stop trying to defnd it now because you yourself said it become untrackable accurately. Until you show me a game that is not got some weird glithc that doesn't allow it to be tracked accurately - you know a game like Aion, Warhammer, Rift, DDO, LoTR's, something of note that proves that xfire doesn't work I'll keep using it.

What I find so funny is you are trying your best to disprove that xfire doesn't work, yet for every game since AC2 that xfire can track it has been accurate at showing the health of a game. With that said, I am done with this thread for now. You still haven't pointed out one MMO that has performed differently than was projected by xfire.

 

I couldn't give a damn about disproving that Xfire works or whether you want to keep using it or not, I don't think in black & whites like you seem to do, 'XFire is ALWAYS representative for player activity!' or 'if others disagree with me, then they don't like Xfire!'

 

The reality is that Xfire is just a tool that a number of players use, and like any tool it has limitations and situations where it isn't representative. I use Xfire myself for trend analysis, but for me it's just ONE of the available tools with which such thing is possible, and I have no problem acknowledging that Xfire has its limitations and flaws and sometimes downright quirks, something that you almost desperately seem to want to ignore, probably because of that foolish bet/promise that you keep changing.

 

But you want some more examples to ignore? Fine:

 

- in 2009, EVE Online reported 300k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 4500

 

- beginning 2011, EVE reported 360k subs. Xfire users for EVE during that time: 2000

 

Xfire: shows a drastic loss, almost 50% of its EVE players!

 

CCP and the real situation: an increase of 50-60k subs

 

- in end of 2008/beginning 2009, WoW shows somewhere around 400-450k hours for WoW. Subs around that time are around 11million

 

- beginning of 2011, WoW has somewhere around 11.5-12 million subs, Xfire registers around the 200k hours for WoW

 

WoW shows a slight increase or at least stability in actual subs, Xfire however shows a 50% decrease, if Xfire is to be believed WoW has lost more than half of its playerbase from 2009-2011.

 

There you go. I have no doubt though that you'll find new ways to negate your own promise and request for examples, seeing how unjust you treated the examples already given.

let me get you a drink sir. 

I'll buy the desserts.

2 things- First, I'm not sure they have x-fire in China and that's where the majority of WoW's subs come from.  The Eve thing is weird but nonetheless, x-fire has been the first indicator of the demise of every new MMO since AOC.  It's not quite clear why it's so accurate, and hell if I know why anybody would use it for an MMO, but regardless, it has been very accurate.

The accuracy may diminish as time goes on and the game has been out for awhile, which would explain the Eve numbers.

Please provide proof of your statements.

I've been following MMOs for years now and with each new one, this x-fire debate always comes up.  I've been on both sides of the fence, and I have argued against x-fires validity when I was a fan of a game (especially before seeing it be right so many times).

I still find it weird that x-fire is so accurate with new MMOs.  I could never figure out why the people that use x-fire would be so representative of the overall playerbase, but nonetheless it has been the case.

SWTOR could be the first game to prove x-fire innacurate when reflecting lower numbers in newlly released MMORPGs, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe it will be.  Plus, people have been reporting seeing less people on servers.  If the opposite were true, maybe there would be a good reason to question x-fire.

If it's any consolation to fans of the game, the decrease shown by x-fire is not that much compared to dips I saw from games like AOC and Warhammer after the first month, on the x-fire charts.  So it doesn't seem to be crashing and buring as bad as those games at least.

Yamota

Originally posted by zymurgeist

The tldr would be:

Ha Ha see the game is dying!

Bullshit.

Lather, rinse, repeat 250,000 times.

Who is saying the game is dying in this thread? Not me atleast.

 

Pelaaja

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by zymurgeist

The tldr would be:

Ha Ha see the game is dying!

Bullshit.

Lather, rinse, repeat 250,000 times.

Who is saying the game is dying in this thread? Not me atleast.

 

You're taking away old mans Netz Kewl, let him have it

There's certainly a trend for high peaks declining and lows going lower. It's following the trend other games have had so far.

January 23rd 2012 the number of XFire users playing is 8,637. While Rift is 463, Aion is 924 and WoW is 19,115.

According hours are SW:ToR 44783 (5,2h per user), Rift 2280 (4,9h per user), Aion 3921 (4,2h per user), WoW 83313 (4,4h per user).

I think the question here should be how low will the graph and users number go?

Metentso

Originally posted by moosecatlol

To anyone who has followed this thread, does anyone have a TL;DR version of how this thread became 70 pages?

Xfire is good!

No xFire is crap!

No it's good!

No, go to college!

You go to college!

Hey guys i'm smart and it's good but just as one tool among many"

Shutup!

Shutup!