And the best thing is, there is no reason not to with the offered GW2 business model.
Seriously, there is no reason not to play/try GW2 as long as you respond to fantasy settings and HnS RPGs.
Well...there is the box price . You have to consider that trying and disliking (hypothetical obviously) GW2 will cost you just about as much as trying and disliking a P2P game because you would just quit in the first month and never pay a sub fee.
And the best thing is, there is no reason not to with the offered GW2 business model.
Seriously, there is no reason not to play/try GW2 as long as you respond to fantasy settings and HnS RPGs.
Well...there is the box price . You have to consider that trying and disliking (hypothetical obviously) GW2 will cost you just about as much as trying and disliking a P2P game because you would just quit in the first month and never pay a sub fee.
I do distinguish between them, because if I go for a P2P mmorpg I expect to play longer than the first month.
I sort of want to play a subscription P2P MMO if i find it worth of a long-time investment. I like P2P MMOs to have a point in playing them post month 1 in the first place.
Mostly because if I look at a SP game like Skyrim for example, I know I'll play it for like 2 weeks, then I'll put it down, maybe do something else, try some other game. But at any time past the "first month" I can return to skyrim and do stuff in it, reroll a new char, etc.
With sub-based MMOs i cant, id need to get a new sub, but maybe I just want to try out something, play like one week or a few days, its always additional cash though when I want to come back.
With GW2 I can pick the game up at any time, like Skyrim, I bought it, I play it at my leisure, how much i want, whenever I want, with breaks as big as I want. Its just financial freedom the business-model gives me.
Sure there will be expansions, but not every month im sure, not even every quarter imho.
And the best thing is, there is no reason not to with the offered GW2 business model.
Seriously, there is no reason not to play/try GW2 as long as you respond to fantasy settings and HnS RPGs.
Well...there is the box price . You have to consider that trying and disliking (hypothetical obviously) GW2 will cost you just about as much as trying and disliking a P2P game because you would just quit in the first month and never pay a sub fee.
I do distinguish between them, because if I go for a P2P mmorpg I expect to play longer than the first month.
I sort of want to play a subscription P2P MMO if i find it worth of a long-time investment. I like P2P MMOs to have a point in playing them post month 1 in the first place.
Mostly because if I look at a SP game like Skyrim for example, I know I'll play it for like 2 weeks, then I'll put it down, maybe do something else, try some other game. But at any time past the "first month" I can return to skyrim and do stuff in it, reroll a new char, etc.
With sub-based MMOs i cant, id need to get a new sub, but maybe I just want to try out something, play like one week or a few days, its always additional cash though when I want to come back.
With GW2 I can pick the game up at any time, like Skyrim, I bought it, I play it at my leisure, how much i want, whenever I want, with breaks as big as I want. Its just financial freedom the business-model gives me.
Sure there will be expansions, but not every month im sure, not even every quarter imho.
To each his own. If I buy a P2P MMORPG and find that I don't enjoy it, I will cancel before the first month for sure, and probably never play again. I've done this with quite a few MMORPGs.
But I understand your point that if you DO like a P2P MMO, you will want to play it more since you are actively paying a fee.
My point was that if you play GW2 and hate it, thus never want to play it again, you would still be paying the same as if it were a P2P MMORPG that you hated (box price). So the cost of "trial" is not any less.
Subs and Awards say otherwise, but you dont need to enjoy the game, there a few other that dont, some didnt liked WOW said it was bad because of this and that, but it was the greatest MMO ever created, i loved playing it, but now i got tired and found something better SWTOR .
People play the wierdest games, for diferent reasons, but quantity = quality even if 100k say it doesnt , it is the only way to evaluate a product.
What subs? They aren't officially 'subs' until after the first month. They are still considered "registered users" right now. So, there goes half of that already. Now let's move onto "Awards" .. WAR, Aion and Vindictus have all won Best MMO awards in different fields and you can see they are hitting to sub charts here in the US and EU ... oh wait, nope. Awards don't mean much when the sub numbers drop. Now, if you like SWTOR that's fine but SWTOR =/= quality. SWTOR = mediocre.
What subs? hmm u have a point, lets wait and see, if u think that any of those mmo's as anything to do with SWTOR u arent really facing the reality of things, other than WOW (to bad for it, it is 7 years old but still decent) no other MMO is on the same league m8, quantity = quality in the MMO's world because it will give lots and lots of money, and with out it, it doesnt matter if the team behind the game is any good they cant do squat. True it is the true.
Your point makes no sense. The point about bringing up the other MMOs is that they are also Award winners, so just having Awards doesn't make it good or that it will retain any subs post 3 to 6 months. It seems that you are the one not facing reality, I have plenty of evidence to back up my claims, you on the other hand are just speculating with quantity = quality nonsense that is beyond wrong.
Not to toot my own horn, but I"m a 2 time world Dungeon Master Champion (www.irongm.com - Dreads). Sure, classes for healing exist, classes that could damage existed and there were classes that took armor. But never, have I ran an encounter where a guy just stood there, the NPC attacked him, someone healed the guy taking damage and some guy attackd from afar. Plus, DND characters and classes are not that one dimensional. Clerics often times have the same armor and can take the same amount of damage as a fighter. Fighters usually deal the most damage and were the heaviest armor. Instead just lumping other classes into "support" They perform other functions on the battlefield such as disarming traps or controlling the envirionment.
I really am trying to avoid a world best, and use the world innovative, what is STar Wars going to do as far as innovation to compete with these innovations of the system. Whether you like it or not, eveyr MMO right now is like as if if you had to jump on heads in every platform game you played. And what people are saying is, i want to jump on heads, i like how that works. But how can you not like a game that lets you jump on heads, shoot fireballs, open up a machine gun and bash your enemies with a crowbar.
And the best thing is, there is no reason not to with the offered GW2 business model.
Seriously, there is no reason not to play/try GW2 as long as you respond to fantasy settings and HnS RPGs.
Well...there is the box price . You have to consider that trying and disliking (hypothetical obviously) GW2 will cost you just about as much as trying and disliking a P2P game because you would just quit in the first month and never pay a sub fee.
I do distinguish between them, because if I go for a P2P mmorpg I expect to play longer than the first month.
I sort of want to play a subscription P2P MMO if i find it worth of a long-time investment. I like P2P MMOs to have a point in playing them post month 1 in the first place.
Mostly because if I look at a SP game like Skyrim for example, I know I'll play it for like 2 weeks, then I'll put it down, maybe do something else, try some other game. But at any time past the "first month" I can return to skyrim and do stuff in it, reroll a new char, etc.
With sub-based MMOs i cant, id need to get a new sub, but maybe I just want to try out something, play like one week or a few days, its always additional cash though when I want to come back.
With GW2 I can pick the game up at any time, like Skyrim, I bought it, I play it at my leisure, how much i want, whenever I want, with breaks as big as I want. Its just financial freedom the business-model gives me.
Sure there will be expansions, but not every month im sure, not even every quarter imho.
To each his own. If I buy a P2P MMORPG and find that I don't enjoy it, I will cancel before the first month for sure, and probably never play again. I've done this with quite a few MMORPGs.
But I understand your point that if you DO like a P2P MMO, you will want to play it more since you are actively paying a fee.
My point was that if you play GW2 and hate it, thus never want to play it again, you would still be paying the same as if it were a P2P MMORPG that you hated (box price). So the cost of "trial" is not any less.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
Subs and Awards say otherwise, but you dont need to enjoy the game, there a few other that dont, some didnt liked WOW said it was bad because of this and that, but it was the greatest MMO ever created, i loved playing it, but now i got tired and found something better SWTOR .
People play the wierdest games, for diferent reasons, but quantity = quality even if 100k say it doesnt , it is the only way to evaluate a product.
What subs? They aren't officially 'subs' until after the first month. They are still considered "registered users" right now. So, there goes half of that already. Now let's move onto "Awards" .. WAR, Aion and Vindictus have all won Best MMO awards in different fields and you can see they are hitting to sub charts here in the US and EU ... oh wait, nope. Awards don't mean much when the sub numbers drop. Now, if you like SWTOR that's fine but SWTOR =/= quality. SWTOR = mediocre.
What subs? hmm u have a point, lets wait and see, if u think that any of those mmo's as anything to do with SWTOR u arent really facing the reality of things, other than WOW (to bad for it, it is 7 years old but still decent) no other MMO is on the same league m8, quantity = quality in the MMO's world because it will give lots and lots of money, and with out it, it doesnt matter if the team behind the game is any good they cant do squat. True it is the true.
Your point makes no sense. The point about bringing up the other MMOs is that they are also Award winners, so just having Awards doesn't make it good or that it will retain any subs post 3 to 6 months. It seems that you are the one not facing reality, I have plenty of evidence to back up my claims, you on the other hand are just speculating with quantity = quality nonsense that is beyond wrong.
Not to toot my own horn, but I"m a 2 time world Dungeon Master Champion (www.irongm.com - Dreads). Sure, classes for healing exist, classes that could damage existed and there were classes that took armor. But never, have I ran an encounter where a guy just stood there, the NPC attacked him, someone healed the guy taking damage and some guy attackd from afar. Plus, DND characters and classes are not that one dimensional. Clerics often times have the same armor and can take the same amount of damage as a fighter. Fighters usually deal the most damage and were the heaviest armor. Instead just lumping other classes into "support" They perform other functions on the battlefield such as disarming traps or controlling the envirionment.
I really am trying to avoid a world best, and use the world innovative, what is STar Wars going to do as far as innovation to compete with these innovations of the system. Whether you like it or not, eveyr MMO right now is like as if if you had to jump on heads in every platform game you played. And what people are saying is, i want to jump on heads, i like how that works. But how can you not like a game that lets you jump on heads, shoot fireballs, open up a machine gun and bash your enemies with a crowbar.
don't bother. i'm convinced that besides puremallice, most people who downplay GW2 do so out of "revenge"(of the sith).
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
I do see your point, but if id apply pure game theory on this matrix, GW2 has still the better model
I see the "15$/month if you like it" as a "risk", so taking the other box (GW2) is risk-free.
Its really just perspective, but makes sense to me.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
I do see your point, but if id apply pure game theory on this matrix, GW2 has still the better model
I see the "15$/month if you like it" as a "risk", so taking the other box (GW2) is risk-free.
Its really just perspective, but makes sense to me.
Yes, Mr. Nash equilibrium, that is true .
The cost of "try and like" is greater for a P2P than B2P game.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
I do see your point, but if id apply pure game theory on this matrix, GW2 has still the better model
I see the "15$/month if you like it" as a "risk", so taking the other box (GW2) is risk-free.
Its really just perspective, but makes sense to me.
Yes, Mr. Nash equilibrium, that is true .
The cost of "try and like" is greater for a P2P than B2P game.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
I do see your point, but if id apply pure game theory on this matrix, GW2 has still the better model
I see the "15$/month if you like it" as a "risk", so taking the other box (GW2) is risk-free.
Its really just perspective, but makes sense to me.
You guys botth make sense.
It cost the same but say if I'm iffy on how mmorpg's are and very skeptical one I'd like to try one without the sub first because for example if I end up lovng it no credit card prompt will stop me and say "In order to continue having fun you must pay an extra 15 dollars."
How ever Star Wars will raise a brow just because it's Star Wars but the whole sub thing atleast at Gamestop near me and walmart is getting old.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
I do see your point, but if id apply pure game theory on this matrix, GW2 has still the better model
I see the "15$/month if you like it" as a "risk", so taking the other box (GW2) is risk-free.
Its really just perspective, but makes sense to me.
You guys botth make sense.
It cost the same but say if I'm iffy on how mmorpg's are and very skeptical one I'd like to try one without the sub first because for example if I end up lovng it no credit card prompt will stop me and say "In order to continue having fun you must pay an extra 15 dollars."
How ever Star Wars will raise a brow just because it's Star Wars but the whole sub thing atleast at Gamestop near me and walmart is getting old.
It's not the same thing because many people who bought SWTOR are now complaining that they have to input their CC info in order to get 30 days free (which isn't that big of a deal if you ask me). So clearly it bugs people and it makes people feel like they are forced in to subbing a game in order to try it for the free 30 days. When you add the astronomical price for the box some ppl get frightened. So buy once and never pay again without any CC info needed sounds way better to most of new players in mmorpg world. So more ppl will reach for the box which they have to pay only once.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
It's not the same thing because many people who bought SWTOR are now complaining that they have to input their CC info in order to get 30 days free (which isn't that big of a deal if you ask me). So clearly it bugs people and it makes people feel like they are forced in to subbing a game in order to try it for the free 30 days. When you add the astronomical price for the box some ppl get frightened. So buy once and never pay again without any CC info needed sounds way better to most of new players in mmorpg world. So more ppl will reach for the box which they have to pay only once.
True, but it's just psychological. You can enter your CC information, and literally cancel 10 seconds afterwards, you won't be charged for a month.
Although, I grant that psychology and expectations can have a HUGE impact in decision making, so you actually make a very good point .
Since GW2 won't have a monthly sub, i'm sure many people will play both off and on. In the same category as "pay 2 play" SWTOR will probably get demolished by The Secret World. You heard it here first!
Since GW2 won't have a monthly sub, i'm sure many people will play both off and on. In the same category as "pay 2 play" SWTOR will probably get demolished by The Secret World. You heard it here first!
Demolished by TSW and not TERA? ... But it's doing so well in Korea. /sarcasm
Guild Wars will have multiple storylines per dungeon
SWTOR should be able to truly flourish with this one, using true/false conditions, SWTOR could introduce new content in flashpoints based on decisions. For instance, when playing essex, I really wanted to kill the supposed traitor diplomat, what would have happened if I had that option. Currently, too many dialogue options mean nothing in the long run (but light and dark points). SWTOR already has a few quests that do this, open up quest chains with alternative endings. This sounds like the easiet thing to do in SWTOR.
I'm not playing the game currently, but I did log about 25 hours during the beta and had a level 17 and was pretty confident that SWTOR did have this in the earlier flashpoints at least. Where I had gone through the instance once before, killing a large robot, choices that players made during the dialogues of the flashpoint the second time I went through it yielded different results for a part of the mission. o.o Maybe I just imagined that though, I don't know.
I had actually credited SWTOR's flashpoints for doing that since it was something I was looking forward to in GW2 but now you have me second guessing if I was giving TOR more credit than I should have?
The difference between SWTOR's and GW2's is that in SWTOR the dungeon story changes, whereas in GW2 the layout of the dungeon changes. Using your robot example, lets say your first party chooses 1 out of 3 options in the story and get light side points, and kill it. Later, you run it again but you do one of the other 2 choices, and though the story has changed, the robot you fight is the same one. Basically, the story option you pick has no effect on what bosses you fight in that dungeon. In GW2 the choices you make in a dungeon change what bosses you'll fight. For example, let's say we're doing a dungeon in a cave with a dragon. Once inside, you find someone that was lost and begs for your help to escape. Instead of going straight for the Dragon and facing 2 of his lieutenants and then the big bad Dragon himself, you decide to help the lost man and lead him down a path that "seems" safe. On your way you run across a Giant Spider Matriarch, some dwarves who've gone insane from being near the dragon, and then the path ultimately ends up going into the Dragon's room (oopsies).
And, since there's more than one dungeon arc, you could probably run the same dungeon 4-6 times and face different foes each time.
The difference between SWTOR's and GW2's is that in SWTOR the dungeon story changes, whereas in GW2 the layout of the dungeon changes. Using your robot example, lets say your first party chooses 1 out of 3 options in the story and get light side points, and kill it. Later, you run it again but you do one of the other 2 choices, and though the story has changed, the robot you fight is the same one. Basically, the story option you pick has no effect on what bosses you fight in that dungeon. In GW2 the choices you make in a dungeon change what bosses you'll fight. For example, let's say we're doing a dungeon in a cave with a dragon. Once inside, you find someone that was lost and begs for your help to escape. Instead of going straight for the Dragon and facing 2 of his lieutenants and then the big bad Dragon himself, you decide to help the lost man and lead him down a path that "seems" safe. On your way you run across a Giant Spider Matriarch, some dwarves who've gone insane from being near the dragon, and then the path ultimately ends up going into the Dragon's room (oopsies).
And, since there's more than one dungeon arc, you could probably run the same dungeon 4-6 times and face different foes each time.
for good reason, people want loot, even if it is just for the looks, if one way drops something someone wants and the other doesn't and the majority of the groups decides to go path b, that person is going to be pissed, maybe one way is easier than the other meaning the majority of groups will want to take it even if you want something from the other way, this leads to frustration
TOR doesn't have this problem, so I don't see anything superior in Gw2s aproach, just different with it's own drawbacks
Since GW2 won't have a monthly sub, i'm sure many people will play both off and on. In the same category as "pay 2 play" SWTOR will probably get demolished by The Secret World. You heard it here first!
only diffrence between GW2 not having a sub and other MMOs is that you dont have to pay 15$, it is such a weird comment to say GW2 doesnt compete with other MMOs because of their lack of extra payment.....so in other MMOs you pay 15$ and if you find you d still not like it for what ever reason you cancelled in the first place and you stop play, the only diffrence is you paid 15$, instead of like GW2 just logged in for an hour or so and then logged out again....15$ doesnt change who your competitors is...
Guild Wars will have multiple storylines per dungeon
SWTOR should be able to truly flourish with this one, using true/false conditions, SWTOR could introduce new content in flashpoints based on decisions. For instance, when playing essex, I really wanted to kill the supposed traitor diplomat, what would have happened if I had that option. Currently, too many dialogue options mean nothing in the long run (but light and dark points). SWTOR already has a few quests that do this, open up quest chains with alternative endings. This sounds like the easiet thing to do in SWTOR.
I'm not playing the game currently, but I did log about 25 hours during the beta and had a level 17 and was pretty confident that SWTOR did have this in the earlier flashpoints at least. Where I had gone through the instance once before, killing a large robot, choices that players made during the dialogues of the flashpoint the second time I went through it yielded different results for a part of the mission. o.o Maybe I just imagined that though, I don't know.
I had actually credited SWTOR's flashpoints for doing that since it was something I was looking forward to in GW2 but now you have me second guessing if I was giving TOR more credit than I should have?
The difference between SWTOR's and GW2's is that in SWTOR the dungeon story changes, whereas in GW2 the layout of the dungeon changes. Using your robot example, lets say your first party chooses 1 out of 3 options in the story and get light side points, and kill it. Later, you run it again but you do one of the other 2 choices, and though the story has changed, the robot you fight is the same one. Basically, the story option you pick has no effect on what bosses you fight in that dungeon. In GW2 the choices you make in a dungeon change what bosses you'll fight. For example, let's say we're doing a dungeon in a cave with a dragon. Once inside, you find someone that was lost and begs for your help to escape. Instead of going straight for the Dragon and facing 2 of his lieutenants and then the big bad Dragon himself, you decide to help the lost man and lead him down a path that "seems" safe. On your way you run across a Giant Spider Matriarch, some dwarves who've gone insane from being near the dragon, and then the path ultimately ends up going into the Dragon's room (oopsies).
And, since there's more than one dungeon arc, you could probably run the same dungeon 4-6 times and face different foes each time.
This is true would also like to add dynamic events do occur in GW 2's dungeons meaning that even if you went through the same dungeon twice you can have a chance of experiencing a DE that then changes the dungeon.
Let me know if I'm wrong guys .
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
for good reason, people want loot, even if it is just for the looks, if one way drops something someone wants and the other doesn't and the majority of the groups decides to go path b, that person is going to be pissed, maybe one way is easier than the other meaning the majority of groups will want to take it even if you want something from the other way, this leads to frustration
TOR doesn't have this problem, so I don't see anything superior in Gw2s aproach, just different with it's own drawbacks
That is because you assumed that GW2 will use the standard loot system where each boss has a unique loot table. AFAIK, GW2's dungeons will use the token system where upon completing the dungeon will reward people with a token that can be traded for a piece of either the weapon set (story mode) or the armor set ( exploreable mode) that are both unique to that dungeon.
Since GW2 won't have a monthly sub, i'm sure many people will play both off and on. In the same category as "pay 2 play" SWTOR will probably get demolished by The Secret World. You heard it here first!
only diffrence between GW2 not having a sub and other MMOs is that you dont have to pay 15$, it is such a weird comment to say GW2 doesnt compete with other MMOs because of their lack of extra payment.....so in other MMOs you pay 15$ and if you find you d still not like it for what ever reason you cancelled in the first place and you stop play, the only diffrence is you paid 15$, instead of like GW2 just logged in for an hour or so and then logged out again....15$ doesnt change who your competitors is...
It's not really weird, most people who claim that either don't know how MMORPG gamers operate or they're big fans of _____ subscription game and want people to believe they're not in competition with each other since it's pretty obvious GW2 will cut into sub gamers' gametime, thus less $15/month shelled out for a shelved title. Why pay for something you're not playing? ANet has already debunked the myth that server costs are necessary for new content, which is why I refuse to give these greedy a-holes extra pocket money. All Blizzard ever did with it was put more game character statues in their lobby.
Comments
I intend to play both.
And the best thing is, there is no reason not to with the offered GW2 business model.
Seriously, there is no reason not to play/try GW2 as long as you respond to fantasy settings and HnS RPGs.
Well...there is the box price
. You have to consider that trying and disliking (hypothetical obviously) GW2 will cost you just about as much as trying and disliking a P2P game because you would just quit in the first month and never pay a sub fee.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I do distinguish between them, because if I go for a P2P mmorpg I expect to play longer than the first month.
I sort of want to play a subscription P2P MMO if i find it worth of a long-time investment. I like P2P MMOs to have a point in playing them post month 1 in the first place.
Mostly because if I look at a SP game like Skyrim for example, I know I'll play it for like 2 weeks, then I'll put it down, maybe do something else, try some other game. But at any time past the "first month" I can return to skyrim and do stuff in it, reroll a new char, etc.
With sub-based MMOs i cant, id need to get a new sub, but maybe I just want to try out something, play like one week or a few days, its always additional cash though when I want to come back.
With GW2 I can pick the game up at any time, like Skyrim, I bought it, I play it at my leisure, how much i want, whenever I want, with breaks as big as I want. Its just financial freedom the business-model gives me.
Sure there will be expansions, but not every month im sure, not even every quarter imho.
To each his own. If I buy a P2P MMORPG and find that I don't enjoy it, I will cancel before the first month for sure, and probably never play again. I've done this with quite a few MMORPGs.
But I understand your point that if you DO like a P2P MMO, you will want to play it more since you are actively paying a fee.
My point was that if you play GW2 and hate it, thus never want to play it again, you would still be paying the same as if it were a P2P MMORPG that you hated (box price). So the cost of "trial" is not any less.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Not to toot my own horn, but I"m a 2 time world Dungeon Master Champion (www.irongm.com - Dreads). Sure, classes for healing exist, classes that could damage existed and there were classes that took armor. But never, have I ran an encounter where a guy just stood there, the NPC attacked him, someone healed the guy taking damage and some guy attackd from afar. Plus, DND characters and classes are not that one dimensional. Clerics often times have the same armor and can take the same amount of damage as a fighter. Fighters usually deal the most damage and were the heaviest armor. Instead just lumping other classes into "support" They perform other functions on the battlefield such as disarming traps or controlling the envirionment.
I really am trying to avoid a world best, and use the world innovative, what is STar Wars going to do as far as innovation to compete with these innovations of the system. Whether you like it or not, eveyr MMO right now is like as if if you had to jump on heads in every platform game you played. And what people are saying is, i want to jump on heads, i like how that works. But how can you not like a game that lets you jump on heads, shoot fireballs, open up a machine gun and bash your enemies with a crowbar.
Just see it like this, WoW for example, I quit WoW after the first month of Cata (found the raiding to be horrible), but now I'd actually would like to come back and try the patched experience or roll a Worgen (never got to during the first month) or a Goblin.
But I'd need to dish up 15$ for a complete month, even though I'd just like to play for maybe a few days, maybe join a raid or two, check out the new zones like Gilneas, nothing more.
But it feels like an investment that would be wasting away because I wouldn't play for a month. Atm I don't have the disposable income to throw left and right at MMOs id like to return to for a few days/week (id also like to return to EvE for example).
GW2 feels a lot better in that regard.
don't bother. i'm convinced that besides puremallice, most people who downplay GW2 do so out of "revenge"(of the sith).
I see what you're saying, and what you're saying it absolutely correct. I just think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying is valid if and only if you actually enjoy (to some degree) playing the game.
If you play the game and absolutely hate it, never want to play it again, then the whole B2P/P2P thing is irrelevant. I'm really talking about the cost to "try" something here.
Imagine there are two black boxes in front of you. You can open one by paying $60 and never paying again, but the other costs $60 to open and then $15 every month to use after the first month (if you like it). The cost to "see" (i.e. trial) what's inside the boxes is exactly the same. The additional $15 only comes into the equation if you like the contents of the box so much that you want to use it for more than a month.
So when you say that the cost to try GW2 is less than the cost to try SWTOR, I just don't see it. The cost is the price of the box regardless. Unless your trial period exceeds a month, that's what it is.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I do see your point, but if id apply pure game theory on this matrix, GW2 has still the better model
I see the "15$/month if you like it" as a "risk", so taking the other box (GW2) is risk-free.
Its really just perspective, but makes sense to me.
Yes, Mr. Nash equilibrium, that is true
.
The cost of "try and like" is greater for a P2P than B2P game.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I like min-maxing my life ;D
You guys botth make sense.
It cost the same but say if I'm iffy on how mmorpg's are and very skeptical one I'd like to try one without the sub first because for example if I end up lovng it no credit card prompt will stop me and say "In order to continue having fun you must pay an extra 15 dollars."
How ever Star Wars will raise a brow just because it's Star Wars but the whole sub thing atleast at Gamestop near me and walmart is getting old.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
It's not the same thing because many people who bought SWTOR are now complaining that they have to input their CC info in order to get 30 days free (which isn't that big of a deal if you ask me). So clearly it bugs people and it makes people feel like they are forced in to subbing a game in order to try it for the free 30 days. When you add the astronomical price for the box some ppl get frightened. So buy once and never pay again without any CC info needed sounds way better to most of new players in mmorpg world. So more ppl will reach for the box which they have to pay only once.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
If they let me do Jedi force infused flips by double tapping in any direction I'll be all over this game. Till then... nope.
This is not a game.
True, but it's just psychological. You can enter your CC information, and literally cancel 10 seconds afterwards, you won't be charged for a month.
Although, I grant that psychology and expectations can have a HUGE impact in decision making, so you actually make a very good point
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Since GW2 won't have a monthly sub, i'm sure many people will play both off and on. In the same category as "pay 2 play" SWTOR will probably get demolished by The Secret World. You heard it here first!
Demolished by TSW and not TERA? ... But it's doing so well in Korea. /sarcasm
The difference between SWTOR's and GW2's is that in SWTOR the dungeon story changes, whereas in GW2 the layout of the dungeon changes. Using your robot example, lets say your first party chooses 1 out of 3 options in the story and get light side points, and kill it. Later, you run it again but you do one of the other 2 choices, and though the story has changed, the robot you fight is the same one. Basically, the story option you pick has no effect on what bosses you fight in that dungeon. In GW2 the choices you make in a dungeon change what bosses you'll fight. For example, let's say we're doing a dungeon in a cave with a dragon. Once inside, you find someone that was lost and begs for your help to escape. Instead of going straight for the Dragon and facing 2 of his lieutenants and then the big bad Dragon himself, you decide to help the lost man and lead him down a path that "seems" safe. On your way you run across a Giant Spider Matriarch, some dwarves who've gone insane from being near the dragon, and then the path ultimately ends up going into the Dragon's room (oopsies).
And, since there's more than one dungeon arc, you could probably run the same dungeon 4-6 times and face different foes each time.
^^^ Another score for GW2. Coming from someone who ran countless WoW-type instances, that sounds amazing.
for good reason, people want loot, even if it is just for the looks, if one way drops something someone wants and the other doesn't and the majority of the groups decides to go path b, that person is going to be pissed, maybe one way is easier than the other meaning the majority of groups will want to take it even if you want something from the other way, this leads to frustration
TOR doesn't have this problem, so I don't see anything superior in Gw2s aproach, just different with it's own drawbacks
only diffrence between GW2 not having a sub and other MMOs is that you dont have to pay 15$, it is such a weird comment to say GW2 doesnt compete with other MMOs because of their lack of extra payment.....so in other MMOs you pay 15$ and if you find you d still not like it for what ever reason you cancelled in the first place and you stop play, the only diffrence is you paid 15$, instead of like GW2 just logged in for an hour or so and then logged out again....15$ doesnt change who your competitors is...
This is true would also like to add dynamic events do occur in GW 2's dungeons meaning that even if you went through the same dungeon twice you can have a chance of experiencing a DE that then changes the dungeon.
Let me know if I'm wrong guys
.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
That is because you assumed that GW2 will use the standard loot system where each boss has a unique loot table. AFAIK, GW2's dungeons will use the token system where upon completing the dungeon will reward people with a token that can be traded for a piece of either the weapon set (story mode) or the armor set ( exploreable mode) that are both unique to that dungeon.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon
It's not really weird, most people who claim that either don't know how MMORPG gamers operate or they're big fans of _____ subscription game and want people to believe they're not in competition with each other since it's pretty obvious GW2 will cut into sub gamers' gametime, thus less $15/month shelled out for a shelved title. Why pay for something you're not playing? ANet has already debunked the myth that server costs are necessary for new content, which is why I refuse to give these greedy a-holes extra pocket money. All Blizzard ever did with it was put more game character statues in their lobby.