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Guild War 2 Might Cost you more than you think
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Actually, I'm pretty okay with character specific bag purchases (As long as they don't redesign the game to suddenly become considerably more bag-unfriendly), but I'll cheerily admit that them turning dye unlocks from account wide to character specific seems like a really bad decision to me.
I even didn't have really that much of a problem with the 24 hour dye unlock (Since I'll probably have 8 characters so can churn through 8 dyes a day), BUT, if you combine that with character-specific dye unlocks, it suddenly becomes insanely annoying again.
So I can disagree with the original post, which was poorly thought out, but agree that they should definitely move at least dyes back to account wide unlocks. Bags I think they're overcharging as an individual unlock, but as long as they don't do horrifying design decisions to force bag purchases (For example, making the drop/bag system more like WoW), that's just filed under my 'They should probably charge less if they want to make more sales' category.
There's still not a single game you can pay for that can't 'cost more than you think'
Not just that, that applies to anything you can spend money on. Cars? Cost more than you think. Meals? Might cost more than you think (Actually, I really DO want a dessert). House? Oh yeah, you better believe they can cost more than you think. New clothes? Who realized you have to =wash these things=.
Anything where there is a potential to spend more money (Which covers all MMOs that charge money), there is a possibility to 'cost more than you think'. So yeah. It's a fact ... but it's a dumb fact, and anybody who wasn't aware that 'GW2 could cost more than the box price' is actually not smart enough to read, so Valkan wasted a whole lot of time writing that much.
Any game that has no extra fees after you purchse it, would not cost more than you think. So no, every game does not cost more than you think.
If you expect your car to have power windows for the advertised price and then found out that you had to pay extra for them. Yes, that would be an example.
In your opinion Valatar wasted his time, because you disagree with him. However not everybody shares your opinion.
Who in the world goes into a game expecting a mandatory extra 7 bag slots per character? Is there a person in the world who believes that's the normal gaming standard and anything less is ripping you off?
I'm not sure where you're dragging these imaginary people from, but imaginary people don't count.
Also, go ahead and name an MMORPG that has no built in potential for extra fees after you purchase it. I'm waiting.
Also, he wasted his time because he's explaining things to a crowd of people that don't exist (People smart enough to read, but not smart enough to realize GW2 has a cash shop by now)
What mmorpg player in the world would think that they have 1 bank tab with 30 slots total for all their characters?
Hey! I've already admitted that extra bank tabs is a possible legitimate extra expense.
Now you just have to admit the 24 extra bag things is pure luxury expenses.
Also, 3 extra characters is perfectly reasonable.
Though neither are neccessary, and most people won't need to buy it, it's a perfectly reasonable extra expense, and I wouldn't have NEARLY the issue with a post that dealt with those as the whole core of the 'you might pay more than you expect' argument.
It's the whole 'omg, I need to buy 24 extra bag slots' that makes the math on the original post so crazy, and the logic so poor. We're talking about something far above and beyond the norm. Once you pull out the extra 24 bag slots, the total amount of cash spent suddenly becomes significantly less than a year long subscription WoW.
ALSO, anybody who needs 8 characters and max bank tabs (Considering most crafting materials have dedicated slots of their own, so the bank situation isn't actually as bad as it looks) is obviously playing the HELL out of the game, so it's no surprise they'd end up paying a little more. Still less than a subscription though.
Ignorance is not a excuse for anything. Arenanet has said in the past guild wars 2 is a buy 2 play game, you can buy and you never HAVE to pay for that game again and THAT hasn't change.
Also you are right, not everybody is gonna have the same opinion on things that what makes us human. Some people are perfectly content to pay 15 dollar a month + expansion to grind the same content and they don't mind it but I think it's stupid and that if fine.
So saying that not everybody agrees with meowhead irrelevant to anything other than to make yourself feel better.
When the game comes out i m gonna spend the hell out of it, it is arenanet's fault no. I m doing so because I can. Anyways this whole topic is pointless because its based on a flawed assumption and assumption that nobody but the OP will be smart enough to actually want to do.
Which is a lie (or an omission by ignorance), because the bank also has a tab where you can stock unlimited crafting materials right from your character's inventory in the wilds.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You can buy extra bag slots and extra bank tabs using gold, just like every other MMORPG. You can actually buy the additional character slots with in-game gold as well, which most other MMORPGs don't even offer.
gold --> gems --> bags slots and bank tabs and character slots.
Done and done.
Beyond that info, all the negativity is pure pessimistic speculation.
GW2 will cost exactly what I CHOOSE to pay. No more, no less.
have you play already GW2 Atlan99? when i read somethings you say i get the feel you didnt play the game.
Meowhead i totally agree with you
Yes.
The funny part of your statement, is that this is the one thing that meowhead agrees with me on.
Your assumption is that everybody that buys the game is going to be as knowledgeable and passionate about it as you are.
Honestly, the original poster sort of shot himself in the foot.
It went from what could have been a perfectly reasonable talking point (3 extra characters is a possible charge! Extra bank tabs could come in handy! There's a chance if you play this game a lot, you'll spend some more money on it!), to alarmist overblown scare tactics with poor math/logic (Oh no! =24= extra bag slots! Practically mandatory!), not being able to see or acknowledge that at a certain point in time what you're talking about is purely luxury purchases.
With the bag system the way it is UNLESS they do a major revamp to screw people over, those extra bags are a luxury purchase, and not nearly in the same category as trying to play all the classes, or to have conveniently large bank storage.
I'd even argue that it's not as neccessary as he makes it sounds (Since he conveniently ignores materials storage), but there's a case to be made and meaningful discussion to be had... before.
... but he screwed it up.
to clarify you Atlan99. in that multiquote i use i was just talk to your quote. just dont know to select just one quote and dont want to do 2 post at same time just to quote meowhead point of view
i agree with meowhead in the quote he talk about cars and stuff.
So if the store is for convienance, and yet it is not much of a convienance, then how are they going to make money from it?
One can only hope!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
You are mistaken.
The words, "have to pay," determine that. By definition the box IS all you will HAVE to pay. Of course you can choose to pay more, but you do not HAVE to.
That is the primary point of disconnect between your position and those who disagree with you.
As to the storage/bag slot comparison to WoW:
I reviewed my GW1 storage and, assuming that GW2's has some degree of similarity, realized that you might want to reconsider your comparison. My GW1 materials storage panel was equivalent to 36 storage slots. If GW2's crafting/crafting storage is comparable the storage issue is much less than you present. Combine that with the ability to access the auction house from anywhere and the issue is again less than you describe. Add in the fact that bags larger than you describe are available in game, without resorting to the AH, and your concerns seem even further discredited.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
i will only spen more € in future expansions. are you say that im incorrect and now i need to buy bank slots and other stuff that i just dont care???? need to spend money on shop just because someone say that it migh cost more that i tought?
it might cost more? what the hell this "might" mean?? a game with a shop is a game where people can buy stuff so every game with shop might cost more. one thing is buy because someone want item from shop other thing is buy stuff because we are obligate to do that othwerwise we will suck on game....
might cost more? if i buy a new pc it might cost more than i think, it can have problems and than i need to buy stuff to replace.lool
if i go to the supermarket it might cost more than i think!! i might want some ice creams, some cookies and other stuff that werent on my shop list....
Nothing more then other games around 60 don't see any other cost to enjoy this game.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
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PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
If we assume someone that really doesn't do his research, subscription based games can cost a lot more then one would assume when buying them, too. I mean, if i buy Skyrim or CoD, i buy the box and i'm fine. If i buy WoW..woah, i have to pay $15 each month? No way! If only i had known that!
There are two main differences between subscriptions and a cash shop:
If you stop buying stuff in the shop, you can still play. It might be inconvenient, it might not be fun, but you can play.
If you stop paying your subscription, you can no longer play. Thats really inconvenient if you want to play..
Which leads me to the next thing:
With a shop, you have the freedom of choice. You might stand no chance against others without buying stuff from the shop, but you can choose if, when and what to buy. If you buy a boost that last two hours, you use it and play for two yours, and then stop for a month - no problem. If you buy it, but stop playing for a month, and then you come back - the boost is still there, you can use it now. If you buy it, use it and stop playing after an hour..bad luck, but it was only $1.
With a subscription, you have no choice but to spent money before you even start playing (yes, free months for the box etc..but a box is like 3-4 months of subscription anyways), without saying anything about whether you can be competitive, if it's fun or anything else. And if it ain't fun on day 2? Bad luck, theres no (partial) refund. And if you want to play again a month later? Hand over $15 please.
I do not like when i have to buy stuff in the shop to have fun, or when on every corner there is an ad etc., but i avoid games like that in the first place, so i had lots of fun in F2P games without ever paying a dime.
I also played Guild Wars without ever spending money besides on the game itself, and for now, i see no reason why it wouldn't be possible in Guild Wars 2. I might buy something if i feel it's worth it, but most likely, i won't.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
lool. im idiot? im idiot because i dont see the point of have more bags because i can travel instantly to a a vendor sell stuff and have empty bags? or i can send craft material instantly to bank? lol,
i need to grow up but people call names to other just because have a diferent point of view is a very mature thing.
"To enjoy the game to the fullest you will need bags and bank slots" looooooooool. are you serious??? in other games i need a big bags because i cant sell anything instantly or cant travel isntantly to a vendor. is this hard to understand ?
So...I did a little thinking about this.
16,200 gems is a LOT, isn't it? Then I started looking at a few observations.
1) So far, the average going rate for gems is about 10 silver for 100 gems.
2) I earned ten silver in about 4 hours of gameplay on average with a new character and not trading ANYTHING on the auction house. Just quest rewards and vendoring crap. This was tested with 6 different characters (yes I deleted and strted over a couple), spread across all three starting areas, with a broad mix of classes. That's accounting for paying for things like armor repair and transport.
3) Presuming those rates stay the way they currently are:
16,200 gems /100 gems a transcation=162 transactions
162 transactions x 4 hrs to earn the silver for a transaction=648 hours of gameplay needed, presuming all my characters stay newbs forever and never do anything remotely lucrative like use the trading post.
In reality, since I'd be playing a LOT smarter with my gold in a live game environment, and characters WILL get better rewards as they level...it could take signifigantly less than that.
But let's say it does. Let's say I put in 2 hours a night, 5 nights a week. That's probably a tiny amount of time for the average MMO player, but let's lean towards those "I work and have a life" people out there. That's 10 transactions a week. 16.2 weeks to earn enough gems to unlock all needed items. Call it 4 months. While I'm playing and enjoying the game, and not paying Anet a single cent past the box price. I can live with that.
"But Terr, you awesome man you!" Cries the critic, "Your math is based on a ridiculous number of factors that could change!" You're right. So everything here should be taken with a grain of salt. Or perhaps an entire shaker full.
"Plus, you can't play the game without all those bag and bank slots!" Falsehood. I was getting by just fine on the ban and bag numbes I had. I WILL say invest in tailoring or make friends with one; 8 slot bags alone made life much easier. And be prepared to break downeverything you don't need into basic crafting materials.
Actually, according to the official GW forums, most were basing their information on ArenaNet stating in a blog post that dye unlocks would be account wide and in BWE they were character only. So, no, it wasn't AT ALL what anyone was expecting.
And thus why so many in BWE think that ANet is running for an obvious cash grab. Read their own forums for proof of this.
no item shop in GW 2, the only things u can buy are for ex: more charr slots or things like that...
You are correct here. However, whether you use the store or not, you all have to live with silly gameplay designs based on the cash shop. Growing a dye color a day, accelearting with magic flowers and dye color bound to a character is a good example, in the early BWE, of a good example of how non-shop users are going to be effected by the cash shop in the game play.
And, they always start this way, innocent and full of fluff stuff.... then they always seem to grow into P2W scenarios or having to pay for basic features that should be in the base game (that everyone pays for) to begin with. Just look at LOTRO of an example of how a good game can become complete and utter-trash as a result of a cash shop.