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A couple recurring things from the TESO conversation thus far.
Distopia
Member EpicPosts: 21,183
It seems whenever I (or others) offer an opinion that isn't negative toward the game, there is a bombardment of responses to the tune of "but this isn't what I want from a TES MMO". Why should my opinion be based on what you want from a TES MMO?
Along with that there are also a number of responses that will sing a tune of "idiocy" because a poster isn't up in arms about things like TAB targetting, classes, etc.. Why should I care about others being sick of those things? Why should I want change if I actually prefer some of those things in an MMO (excluding class based, I do prefer skill based)?
Worst of all are those who don't understand the difference between withholding judgment, and being a sheep with wool over eye. WIthholding judgement means a person wants to see the whole picture, before offering a verdict. This is the complete opposite of the latter.
I just want to know why people think their opinion should be held by everyone, and people are mindless drones if they don't share it? Is it just trolling or what?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
The simple answer is that they're not you. They don't think like you, have the same tastes as you, or reason like you. In short, they're them. Don't take their expressions about the game personally. You don't have to accept how they feel about the game, just as they don't have to accept how you feel about it.
People are different. It's a concept that seems to escape the internet. A lot.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
MY point went straight over your head didn't it? The whole point is they're doing just that, trying to make everyone think as they do. And do not understand people have different opinions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This simply wont go anywhere and will be invariably closed as spam once someone hops in and starts spewing self-made-facts from their backside without accepting any information that opposes their view. As is customary with gaming forums.
Irony, thy name is Distopia.
Way to prove your own point by failing to recognise someone thinking differently to you and then attacking them.
I got your point exactly.
What you failed to see is that the answer to your conundrum lies in the last 3 sentences of my post. Those people who are trying to make everyone think as they do can't seem to grasp that people are different. As a result, they get nasty. When someone says something that doesn't quite jibe with what they were expecting, they get bent out of shape and say (in perhaps not the exact same words), "Why don't you think like me!"... or they tell you that you've missed the point.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I doubt you're wrong, I'm sure it will get ugly, if it makes it that far, still I really want to know what makes a person an idiot for not agreeing with another's extreme views.
I'd really like to hear from those who feel that way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Bottom line is the game is getting made,like it or not that's the way it is.Anyone who has a problem with anything concerning TESO can stay the fuck away and play some other game or they can just keep playing the single player TES games.
When all is said and done thats the bottom line but you know what,all these so called MMO devs will play the game because curiosity will get the better of them.
Seems to me that people who are complaining stopped out the first paragraph of the released info the other day.If they actually choose to read all the info on the game they would know that it might actually be an okay MMO.
Attacking him? where i'm from that's just a figure of speech , it appeared he was saying the opposite of what I was asking, IE: I have a problem with others opinions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well that's my bad for sure, your wording seemed as though you were directing that at me. WIth the use of "you" over and over.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
At what point? The part where he said you shouldn't take their comments personally, or the part where he addresses the behavior of wanting to exert one's point of view as a general thing people do on the internet?
At what point did he single you out as a perpetrator?
And tying this into the thread topic question. Maybe it's because some people have martyr syndrome?
EDIT: Meh, ye figured it out. On a more serious address of the topic it's just a matter of where people are coming from with the game. With Elder Scrolls you are going to end up having a more finite set of distinct points of view about what will make or break the game.
Some people just honeslty like the lore. That's all that wil matter to them and the gameplay changes won't bother them. Some people might actually just like this kind of gameplay and MMO and likes to hop between games to see the different worlds/themes. Some people may just be diehard loyalists to the game series and want to play each game regardless of the changes to how it plays over time.
Then there's people that play the game for it's particulars in the game mechanics. And what matters to them has distinctly been taken away already. People that have enjoyed the last three titles on console and PC who played the games because they liked the games in the context of what they were and were more or less just asking for a multiplayer way to share their experience with friends. Or people that wanted to take the visceral context of the gameplay experience and transpose that onto MMO gameplay.
There's a reason Mortal Online and Darkfall were both coined early on as Elder Scrolls or Oblivion-like MMOs. Because people wanted to capture that concept of experiencing the game as the character rather than through the character.
On top of that you have to consider who the real long term fans of the elder scrolls series are. People are still playing, modding, and milling about in Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and likely will continue to do so for another few years at least on the PC.
When an MMO is a game designed around the principle of longevity, you kinda of want a dedicated fanbase like that. Problem is, what is there really for all those fans of the single player Elder Scrolls games to really enjoy for such a long time in the MMO? It's a fanbase that feels distinctly alienated from the series by a change that does not mesh with what they have played and adored for so long, and the community isn't as wide-spread as those for things like Star Wars or other multi-media genres might be.
I mean, honestly. How many people that have read the Elder Scrolls books have not spent a ton of time in the games?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yeah I've noticed that as well, that and people see the word WOW and fly off the handle that it is now a WOW clone.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The simple answer is that they're not you. They don't think like you, have the same tastes as you, or reason like you. In short, they're them. Don't take their expressions about the game personally. You don't have to accept how they feel about the game, just as they don't have to accept how you feel about it.
Like I said it was my bad, when I read it it seemed to me at the time that he was saying the problem was with me, that I took what they said personally and had a problem with them expressing their opinions, which wasn't my point at all, I'm very open to another's opinion, as long they accept I don't have to share it.
Still looks as though he's implying I take it personally though, which I don't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah I noticed yer response after posting, decided to make my first post a bit more meaningful.
EDIT: Though I also feel the need to clarify that I didn'g get annoyed about the MMO until I read through the full thing and extra articles to understand the core mechanics. Really is the fundamental gameplay that turns me away in this case. Kinda took away half the reason I love the single player titles.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Correct, Distopia. I was using "you" generically. Sorry for the confusion.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I think, and is a personal opinion of course, that most people, like me, think TES MMO and see Skyrim multyplayer, or oblivion or any other TES single player that have been released.
So when they announced "An MMO" with Tes lore, and is an MMO with MMO stuff to make it likeable to people that like MMOs not specifically TES, people felt betrayed. Mind, i am not saying Zenimax betrayed anyone, they are developing an MMO with MMO stuff as any other MMO, probably will be a good MMO with all the bells and whistles, just is not the Skyrim Multyplayer that most TES fans would have liked.
I put myself into that part of people that would have liked Skyrim multyplayer.
Yes probably is going ot be an decent or even good MMO, but is not what i'd like to play in a TES game, some are more vocals then others in expressing their opinions, and some are really touchy about TES and how should be treated on an MMO and they respond violently.
As i said in another post, will probably make a ton of cash and a lot of people will play it, but who wanted a "Skyrimisque" experience is probably going to try to send bombs to the developers.
Edit: to correct spelling.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7210363296_8357bee9de.jpg
Yeah I definitely get that peeps hold TES near and dear, I do as well. I"ve been working on mods for quite a while myself so I uderstand that as well.
I understand where the anger comes from I really do, and I've expressed understanding of that prior to this thread, I just want to know why they project that anger toward their fellow gamers, who's only wrong doing is being cautious about jumping to conclusions.
Good post though
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All's well that ends well, and sorry for jumping to conclusions:).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ah well for that aspect it's just pretty base psychology.
People polarize. It's just the whole 'if you aren't with us, you're against us' thing playing out with a mob of upset people.
Comments that don't fit their mental state are pretty much just combative to them, even if it's a comment taking a nautral stance. This habit just gets worse when you attach something they like to what they see as bad news, mix the anonmity of the internet, and add a bit of supporting chorus.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yeah I understand that line of thought and reasoning, without the fans where would TES be today? It's the fans who have taken great games and made them that much more through modding and their support of it.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to feel somewhat betrayed, it took a little thought on the subject at first, but I agree with the premise those who feel that way express. At first I looked at it as gamer entitlement, which that was my mistake there.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would just like to point out that the part I added an underline to sounds like you are saying anyone elses views are extreem. That aside there is nothing that can explain it. Its called a fanboy or a hater depending on the situation. By definition they think anyone who doesnt think like them are morons. Though I think anyone that frequents forums are guilty of calling someone an idiot once in a while when we shouldnt. Its just alittle worse on these forums than elsewhere but it is everywhere.
It kind of reminds me of how Jesse Cox (OMFGCATA) did a stream of GW2. He also did a couple highlight videos. He spent the whole time talking about everything he liked/loved about the game but did mention how he didnt like the quest system. People completely ignored the fact he spent hours talking about what he really enjoyed and just ripped him consistantly for not likeing the questing.
Now, if person 1 bases an opinion on facts and person 2 bases an opinion that goes against the facts then yes, person 2 is an idiot. The arguments on TESO though there is no right side (for the class/turn based combat). You either like it or you dont.
*Nods*
I understand the gamer line of thoughts,
On a gamer point of view, probably is just good news, a new MMO with different Lore and , apparently, three faction PVP with possible meaningful battles and a different style of combat..
On a TES modder fan point of view is like seeing your preferite game raped for $$$
Not that all fans will think this mind, but i would safely say most do.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7210363296_8357bee9de.jpg
I guess after waiting all these years for a multiplayer version of Elderscrolls, the fans of the IP found out the mmo of the same name will resemble Elderscrolls in name only, departing from those things which made their games great. I could understand why fans are upset.
I would think people who love The Elderscrolls for what it is would be upset, while people who don't love it would be indifferent. What I don't understand is why use a beloved IP if you aren't going to draw on what made it great. My cynical side says a quick buck. Now...I'm a capitalist. I don't think there is anything wrong with making money. But, lately it seems like the genre has been caring too much about money and not about the love of the game or genre. I think that cynicism is starting to take hold as more people are realizing the mmo genre has stagnated into a one note band.
No I'm not saying that, I just view someone expressing that they won't play the game due to whatever reason and bemoaning others for not feeling that way, as having extreme views.
My wording can be off at times I'm a horrible writer.
For the rest all good points. There's nothing you said here that I disagree with. It just seems really really early for fanbois and haters to exist for this game to me haha.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think one thing also clear with recent game revelations is, how slow they are to catch up to player wants and desires. Like three faction PVP, we've been asking for that since at least 2005 across the board, it took seven years for those games to finally start coming around again, at this point it doesn't seem to be at the top of many gamers priority list. Now many have moved on to wanting more freedoms, new combat systems, etc..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I knew you didnt mean it that way. I usually read your posts when I see them so I have seen the agressive writing before. I kind of just wanted to point it out because you know someone will come in all butthurt and say "see see your the same!".
Oh and I think we both know that as soon as a game is announced, even if there is no information people will love it or hate it based off the name alone