This simply wont go anywhere and will be invariably closed as spam once someone hops in and starts spewing self-made-facts from their backside without accepting any information that opposes their view. As is customary with gaming forums.
I've got news for you... you are not in traffic, you ARE traffic.
I don't believe most people here are saying "Shut up you idiot, you have no right to like what Zenimax is doing."..... I believe most people instead are saying "Ok, that's your opinion....here's mine and it completely different from yours....just want to make that clear."
Why themepark, carebear, tab targeting combat, WoW, WoW-clone, questing etc., anything that is a taste of the mainstream gamer, gets such defamatory tone then? I do not believe it is my sensitive perception seeing it that way.
Then there is 2nd issue when posters have no respect to game developers. Saying that you do not like their product is fine, telling them how they should run their business is completely different tho...
I completely disagree. Time and time again companies of all shapes, sizes and various industries have proven themselves to be woefully idiotic and often at times out right dishonest if not criminally negligent. The position they would all LOVE for you as a consumer to be in is ‘we know best, you don’t however to do so is to go against what it is to be a citizen of a community.
Even more so when they make ridiciously claims where there is evidence in the same market place that its simply untrue.
companies objective is to make money, even if it means liying to you which often can proove to be more profitable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't believe most people here are saying "Shut up you idiot, you have no right to like what Zenimax is doing."..... I believe most people instead are saying "Ok, that's your opinion....here's mine and it completely different from yours....just want to make that clear."
Why themepark, carebear, tab targeting combat, WoW, WoW-clone, questing etc., anything that is a taste of the mainstream gamer, gets such defamatory tone then? I do not believe it is my sensitive perception seeing it that way.
Then there is 2nd issue when posters have no respect to game developers. Saying that you do not like their product is fine, telling them how they should run their business is completely different tho...
As a customer and participant in the Free Market System....how else are you supposed to express your preferences in hopes of seeing them reflected in the market place? Telling someone "I don't like your product, I'm not going to buy it" ... isn't very informative as to WHY the product is not being well recieved by you...and letting anybody else know what sort of things you WOULD be interested in seeing in future products.
No one (unless they are shareholders) is telling them how to run thier business....they are free to run it into the ground, if they like..... what we are doing is telling them what they have to do IF they want to capture OUR business.... if they don't care to capture it, then I'll say the same thing I posted to TOR's Developers and STO's Developers ...." Good Luck with that, we'll see how it works out for you."
I don't believe many of us are actualy being critical of you having your own tastes/opinions and expressing them. You are free to like or dislike whatever you choose, and express the same. However, since this is an open forum...and we also have opinions/tastes...we are simply making it clear that we do not share your tastes and are disappointed by the direction the Developers decided to go.
I don't believe most people here are saying "Shut up you idiot, you have no right to like what Zenimax is doing."..... I believe most people instead are saying "Ok, that's your opinion....here's mine and it completely different from yours....just want to make that clear."
I didn't really say a lot of people are doing it, only that it's been recurring throughtout these threads. And more often than it usually does, seemingly anyway.
Some of you are simply giving your opinion and that's fine, not all are simply doing that though. Quite a few have been lashing out at follow posters simply because they don't agree. I've been on the receiving end a few times of long winded rants about my thought to withhold judgement. Some of those have implied I'm a blind sheep, when all I've said is I'll wait for more info. Not once have they explained what makes me a blind sheep, because I don't automatically assume the worst.
This is also aimed at those who say only the ignorant blind or dumb could possibly have a positive feeling about this game, and add things like you're the problem with this genre, etc.. etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think you are the one forcing everyone to believe the way you do. Why can't others want change in MMOs? Why can't people be sick of the same rehash of crap they have been thrown for the last 7 or 8 years? People do have different opinions, there isn't a right or wrong one. Attacking people for what they want makes you no better than the people you are complaining about.
WHo attacked anyone here for what they want? I didn't say there's a problem with those who are sick of the stuff, I asked why those who attack others for not agreeing, attack those for not agreeing, why they just won't accept others don't share their view.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It seems whenever I (or others) offer an opinion that isn't negative toward the game, there is a bombardment of responses to the tune of "but this isn't what I want from a TES MMO". Why should my opinion be based on what you want from a TES MMO?
Along with that there are also a number of responses that will sing a tune of "idiocy" because a poster isn't up in arms about things like TAB targetting, classes, etc.. Why should I care about others being sick of those things? Why should I want change if I actually prefer some of those things in an MMO (excluding class based, I do prefer skill based)?
Worst of all are those who don't understand the difference between withholding judgment, and being a sheep with wool over eye. WIthholding judgement means a person wants to see the whole picture, before offering a verdict. This is the complete opposite of the latter.
I just want to know why people think their opinion should be held by everyone, and people are mindless drones if they don't share it? Is it just trolling or what?
You do know where you are right? This is a forum, I suggest that you accept the fact that people have differing opinions and we are all in a forum discussing how we feel.
It seems whenever I (or others) offer an opinion that isn't negative toward the game, there is a bombardment of responses to the tune of "but this isn't what I want from a TES MMO". Why should my opinion be based on what you want from a TES MMO?
Along with that there are also a number of responses that will sing a tune of "idiocy" because a poster isn't up in arms about things like TAB targetting, classes, etc.. Why should I care about others being sick of those things? Why should I want change if I actually prefer some of those things in an MMO (excluding class based, I do prefer skill based)?
Worst of all are those who don't understand the difference between withholding judgment, and being a sheep with wool over eye. WIthholding judgement means a person wants to see the whole picture, before offering a verdict. This is the complete opposite of the latter.
I just want to know why people think their opinion should be held by everyone, and people are mindless drones if they don't share it? Is it just trolling or what?
You do know where you are right? This is a forum, I suggest that you accept the fact that people have differing opinions and we are all in a forum discussing how we feel.
DId I say anything toward how anyone feels? Did you read the post?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm sorry, but this "you don't speak for me" argument is nothing but a pointless distraction from any important discussion about the game. It's completely irrelevant whether or not someone is speaking for you, speaking for the majority, trying to make others think the way they do, etc. Completely.
People are simply, when it all boils down, voicing dissent and disgust. If you don't like it, then don't read it, the end.
I'm sorry, but this "you don't speak for me" argument is nothing but a pointless distraction from any important discussion about the game. It's completely irrelevant whether or not someone is speaking for you, speaking for the majority, trying to make others think the way they do, etc. Completely.
People are simply, when it all boils down, voicing dissent and disgust. If you don't like it, then don't read it, the end.
Might want to read again?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't believe many of us are actualy being critical of you having your own tastes/opinions and expressing them. You are free to like or dislike whatever you choose, and express the same. However, since this is an open forum...and we also have opinions/tastes...we are simply making it clear that we do not share your tastes and are disappointed by the direction the Developers decided to go.
I don't believe most people here are saying "Shut up you idiot, you have no right to like what Zenimax is doing."..... I believe most people instead are saying "Ok, that's your opinion....here's mine and it completely different from yours....just want to make that clear."
I didn't really say a lot of people are doing it, only that it's been recurring throughtout these threads. And more often than it usually does, seemingly anyway.
Some of you are simply giving your opinion and that's fine, not all are simply doing that though. Quite a few have been lashing out at follow posters simply because they don't agree. I've been on the receiving end a few times of long winded rants about my thought to withhold judgement. Some of those have implied I'm a blind sheep, when all I've said is I'll wait for more info. Not once have they explained what makes me a blind sheep, because I don't automatically assume the worst.
This is also aimed at those who say only the ignorant blind or dumb could possibly have a positive feeling about this game, and add things like you're the problem with this genre, etc.. etc...
Well, I think there is a certain amount of desire for people here to try to send Developers/Publishers a "clear message" about the publics preferences..... which is why people (regardless of what thier opinion is on a particular game) sometimes get voiceferous when they see someone post an opinion that differs from thier own on any particular game....as there is a fear that such opinions will "dilute the message". It doesn't help that it is well known that certain firms DO engage in viral PR workers that are paid to try to control spin and control/steer postings about thier products in popular hobby forums. It probably only helps fuel paranoia about the motivations behind certain postings.
For my part, it IS starting to get frustrating that there are a significant proportion of us posting here that have consistantly been expressing preferences for certain types of products over the past few years that have consistantly been ignored by publishers in the type of offerings they have been presenting. Not sure how representitive of the gaming public as a whole the makeup of this site is....but it doesn't strike me as all that unrepresentative of serious enthusiasts of the hobby.... and clearly there is at least SOME market segment interested in our type of preferences....but pretty much ZERO serious publishers interested in trying to tap into that segment..... THAT is pretty darn frustrating as a gamer/consumer. TESO would have been a good venue to at least in part appeal to that segment...but once again the publishers chose to ignore it and go a completely different direction.... THAT does get under peoples skin after awhile.
Right now, about my only hope for future fun in MMO's is pinned on Pathfinder Online.
Well, I think there is a certain amount of desire for people here to try to send Developers/Publishers a "clear message" about the publics preferences..... which is why people (regardless of what thier opinion is on a particular game) sometimes get voiceferous when they see someone post an opinion that differs from thier own on any particular game....as there is a fear that such opinions will "dilute the message". It doesn't help that it is well known that certain firms DO engage in viral PR workers that are paid to try to control spin and control/steer postings about thier products in popular hobby forums. It probably only helps fuel paranoia about the motivations behind certain postings.
For my part, it IS starting to get frustrating that there are a significant proportion of us posting here that have consistantly been expressing preferences for certain types of products over the past few years that have consistantly been ignored by publishers in the type of offerings they have been presenting. Not sure how representitive of the gaming public as a whole the makeup of this site is....but it doesn't strike me as all that unrepresentative of serious enthusiasts of the hobby.... and clearly there is at least SOME market segment interested in our type of preferences....but pretty much ZERO serious publishers interested in trying to tap into that segment..... THAT is pretty darn frustrating as a gamer/consumer. TESO would have been a good venue to at least in part appeal to that segment...but once again the publishers chose to ignore it and go a completely different direction.... THAT does get under peoples skin after awhile.
Right now, about my only hope for future fun in MMO's is pinned on Pathfinder Online.
I can see that, and you're probably right that a lot of it has to do with players feeling they're not heard and their message is being diluted by others. I can understand that to an extent. I don't condone it of course (this thread) as obviously I see it as a bad thing, but that does add a bit of perspective to where some of it may be coming from.
To the rest..
I hit on this earlier but only briefly, devs are really, really slow to answer to player desire, that much is obvious. Think how long it's been since players started asking for more three way RVR type PVP games. ANd we're just now getting a few, sadly one which was also a sandbox was cancelled. But I remember those desires as far back as when I joined this site in 05. Here it is 2012 and still none of those have been released.
Development time is so long player desire surpases what devs are currently working on. By the time it sees the light of day, no one cares about that as much as they care about something else at the time. Because everything else in the game is old now.
It's almost like a catch 22 for both player and dev, as by the time we get it, we don't want it anymore. It will probably be 2016 before we hear about more than a few well made sandboxes in development, considering the longer development time required.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I get mad because people who are okay with the direction the game is going already have 5,000 MMO's like it. Why do you to settle for another rehash of the same garbage? This is the one franchise that I never thought would be turned into the direction the games going, and then seeing people that are okay with it and support it pisses me off because it's those people that are the reason that developers can get lazy and create the same game with a few tweaks.
Bottom line is the game is getting made,like it or not that's the way it is.Anyone who has a problem with anything concerning TESO can stay the fuck away and play some other game or they can just keep playing the single player TES games.
When all is said and done thats the bottom line but you know what,all these so called MMO devs will play the game because curiosity will get the better of them.
Seems to me that people who are complaining stopped out the first paragraph of the released info the other day.If they actually choose to read all the info on the game they would know that it might actually be an okay MMO.
These forums are full with peole whos only goal is to bash every game because they think its cool.
Nothing is really known about the game but there are a ton of experts here telling us how awful it will be.
Many that frequent this site will never be satisfied with any mmo because their vision of the game only includes them.
I get mad because people who are okay with the direction the game is going already have 5,000 MMO's like it. Why do you to settle for another rehash of the same garbage? This is the one franchise that I never thought would be turned into the direction the games going, and then seeing people that are okay with it and support it pisses me off because it's those people that are the reason that developers can get lazy and create the same game with a few tweaks.
Not really not many MMO's today offer things like open dungeons, three way PVP, what I consider decent lore and a good device to deliver it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I get mad because people who are okay with the direction the game is going already have 5,000 MMO's like it. Why do you to settle for another rehash of the same garbage? This is the one franchise that I never thought would be turned into the direction the games going, and then seeing people that are okay with it and support it pisses me off because it's those people that are the reason that developers can get lazy and create the same game with a few tweaks.
Not really not many MMO's today offer things like open dungeons, three way PVP, what I consider decent lore and a good device to deliver it.
That is a pretty weak list for creating a new MMO when you stop and think about it.
also what does 'open dungeons' mean to be honest I havent played an MMO where I would consider the dungeon to not be 'open' but I most likely dont undestand the term.
also, 3 way pvp? why is that better than open pvp but option to opt out of all pvp?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I get mad because people who are okay with the direction the game is going already have 5,000 MMO's like it. Why do you to settle for another rehash of the same garbage? This is the one franchise that I never thought would be turned into the direction the games going, and then seeing people that are okay with it and support it pisses me off because it's those people that are the reason that developers can get lazy and create the same game with a few tweaks.
Not really not many MMO's today offer things like open dungeons, three way PVP, what I consider decent lore and a good device to deliver it.
That is a pretty weak list for creating a new MMO when you stop and think about it.
also what does 'open dungeons' mean to be honest I havent played an MMO where I would consider the dungeon to not be 'open' but I most likely dont undestand the term.
also, 3 way pvp? why is that better than open pvp but option to opt out of all pvp?
Open dungeons is a term used for Ultima Online, they are open meaning you likely won't be the only person or only team inside.
WoW and many other games have instanced dungeons where only a limited number of people are allowed in.
It's funny when people talk about raiding, in UO we usually had 10-30+ people do dungeon runs together because we usually ran into hostile players while doing them lol. A Raid for us was significantly larger lol.
Not really not many MMO's today offer things like open dungeons, three way PVP, what I consider decent lore and a good device to deliver it.
That is a pretty weak list for creating a new MMO when you stop and think about it.
also what does 'open dungeons' mean to be honest I havent played an MMO where I would consider the dungeon to not be 'open' but I most likely dont undestand the term.
also, 3 way pvp? why is that better than open pvp but option to opt out of all pvp?
Open dungeon is what you found in EQ, SWG, DAOC, and other older style MMO's, meaning it's not instanced and private it's a different type of experience.
As for a weak list those types of things are what I play for. Your mileage may vary. I could also add not many MMO's promote and reward actual exploration in this day and age, another thing Zen has talked about.
Three faction PVP is not exactly better than open PVP, it's just different, the balance of power is less likely to be dominated by one large guild, or realm.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I get mad because people who are okay with the direction the game is going already have 5,000 MMO's like it. Why do you to settle for another rehash of the same garbage? This is the one franchise that I never thought would be turned into the direction the games going, and then seeing people that are okay with it and support it pisses me off because it's those people that are the reason that developers can get lazy and create the same game with a few tweaks.
Not really not many MMO's today offer things like open dungeons, three way PVP, what I consider decent lore and a good device to deliver it.
That is a pretty weak list for creating a new MMO when you stop and think about it.
also what does 'open dungeons' mean to be honest I havent played an MMO where I would consider the dungeon to not be 'open' but I most likely dont undestand the term.
also, 3 way pvp? why is that better than open pvp but option to opt out of all pvp?
Open dungeons is a term used for Ultima Online, they are open meaning you likely won't be the only person or only team inside.
WoW and many other games have instanced dungeons where only a limited number of people are allowed in.
It's funny when people talk about raiding, in UO we usually had 10-30+ people do dungeon runs together because we usually ran into hostile players while doing them lol. A Raid for us was significantly larger lol.
intresting, I would think turning the player number restriction to off as a significant game feature says a lot about how limited we have been trained in our thinking given the options in the market place.
Darkfall was my main MMO and I never considered the open dungeons as a 'feature' per se but it was in fact open but I suppose it was a feature
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
intresting, I would think turning the player number restriction to off as a significant game feature says a lot about how limited we have been trained in our thinking given the options in the market place.
Darkfall was my main MMO and I never considered the open dungeons as a 'feature' per se but it was in fact open but I suppose it was a feature
For me the new MMO is essentially the problem, as they never tried to offer updated versions of the old IMO superior form (the only real AAA attempt was VG:SOH). Even GW2 is essentially a nod to the old ways more so than it is something brand new, which also puts it on my list of anticipated games, same with Archeage.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I've got news for you... you are not in traffic, you ARE traffic.
I completely disagree. Time and time again companies of all shapes, sizes and various industries have proven themselves to be woefully idiotic and often at times out right dishonest if not criminally negligent. The position they would all LOVE for you as a consumer to be in is ‘we know best, you don’t however to do so is to go against what it is to be a citizen of a community.
Even more so when they make ridiciously claims where there is evidence in the same market place that its simply untrue.
companies objective is to make money, even if it means liying to you which often can proove to be more profitable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
As a customer and participant in the Free Market System....how else are you supposed to express your preferences in hopes of seeing them reflected in the market place? Telling someone "I don't like your product, I'm not going to buy it" ... isn't very informative as to WHY the product is not being well recieved by you...and letting anybody else know what sort of things you WOULD be interested in seeing in future products.
No one (unless they are shareholders) is telling them how to run thier business....they are free to run it into the ground, if they like..... what we are doing is telling them what they have to do IF they want to capture OUR business.... if they don't care to capture it, then I'll say the same thing I posted to TOR's Developers and STO's Developers ...." Good Luck with that, we'll see how it works out for you."
I didn't really say a lot of people are doing it, only that it's been recurring throughtout these threads. And more often than it usually does, seemingly anyway.
Some of you are simply giving your opinion and that's fine, not all are simply doing that though. Quite a few have been lashing out at follow posters simply because they don't agree. I've been on the receiving end a few times of long winded rants about my thought to withhold judgement. Some of those have implied I'm a blind sheep, when all I've said is I'll wait for more info. Not once have they explained what makes me a blind sheep, because I don't automatically assume the worst.
This is also aimed at those who say only the ignorant blind or dumb could possibly have a positive feeling about this game, and add things like you're the problem with this genre, etc.. etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WHo attacked anyone here for what they want? I didn't say there's a problem with those who are sick of the stuff, I asked why those who attack others for not agreeing, attack those for not agreeing, why they just won't accept others don't share their view.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You do know where you are right? This is a forum, I suggest that you accept the fact that people have differing opinions and we are all in a forum discussing how we feel.
DId I say anything toward how anyone feels? Did you read the post?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm sorry, but this "you don't speak for me" argument is nothing but a pointless distraction from any important discussion about the game. It's completely irrelevant whether or not someone is speaking for you, speaking for the majority, trying to make others think the way they do, etc. Completely.
People are simply, when it all boils down, voicing dissent and disgust. If you don't like it, then don't read it, the end.
Might want to read again?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well, I think there is a certain amount of desire for people here to try to send Developers/Publishers a "clear message" about the publics preferences..... which is why people (regardless of what thier opinion is on a particular game) sometimes get voiceferous when they see someone post an opinion that differs from thier own on any particular game....as there is a fear that such opinions will "dilute the message". It doesn't help that it is well known that certain firms DO engage in viral PR workers that are paid to try to control spin and control/steer postings about thier products in popular hobby forums. It probably only helps fuel paranoia about the motivations behind certain postings.
For my part, it IS starting to get frustrating that there are a significant proportion of us posting here that have consistantly been expressing preferences for certain types of products over the past few years that have consistantly been ignored by publishers in the type of offerings they have been presenting. Not sure how representitive of the gaming public as a whole the makeup of this site is....but it doesn't strike me as all that unrepresentative of serious enthusiasts of the hobby.... and clearly there is at least SOME market segment interested in our type of preferences....but pretty much ZERO serious publishers interested in trying to tap into that segment..... THAT is pretty darn frustrating as a gamer/consumer. TESO would have been a good venue to at least in part appeal to that segment...but once again the publishers chose to ignore it and go a completely different direction.... THAT does get under peoples skin after awhile.
Right now, about my only hope for future fun in MMO's is pinned on Pathfinder Online.
I can see that, and you're probably right that a lot of it has to do with players feeling they're not heard and their message is being diluted by others. I can understand that to an extent. I don't condone it of course (this thread) as obviously I see it as a bad thing, but that does add a bit of perspective to where some of it may be coming from.
To the rest..
I hit on this earlier but only briefly, devs are really, really slow to answer to player desire, that much is obvious. Think how long it's been since players started asking for more three way RVR type PVP games. ANd we're just now getting a few, sadly one which was also a sandbox was cancelled. But I remember those desires as far back as when I joined this site in 05. Here it is 2012 and still none of those have been released.
Development time is so long player desire surpases what devs are currently working on. By the time it sees the light of day, no one cares about that as much as they care about something else at the time. Because everything else in the game is old now.
It's almost like a catch 22 for both player and dev, as by the time we get it, we don't want it anymore. It will probably be 2016 before we hear about more than a few well made sandboxes in development, considering the longer development time required.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
These forums are full with peole whos only goal is to bash every game because they think its cool.
Nothing is really known about the game but there are a ton of experts here telling us how awful it will be.
Many that frequent this site will never be satisfied with any mmo because their vision of the game only includes them.
Not really not many MMO's today offer things like open dungeons, three way PVP, what I consider decent lore and a good device to deliver it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is a pretty weak list for creating a new MMO when you stop and think about it.
also what does 'open dungeons' mean to be honest I havent played an MMO where I would consider the dungeon to not be 'open' but I most likely dont undestand the term.
also, 3 way pvp? why is that better than open pvp but option to opt out of all pvp?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Open dungeons is a term used for Ultima Online, they are open meaning you likely won't be the only person or only team inside.
WoW and many other games have instanced dungeons where only a limited number of people are allowed in.
It's funny when people talk about raiding, in UO we usually had 10-30+ people do dungeon runs together because we usually ran into hostile players while doing them lol. A Raid for us was significantly larger lol.
Open dungeon is what you found in EQ, SWG, DAOC, and other older style MMO's, meaning it's not instanced and private it's a different type of experience.
As for a weak list those types of things are what I play for. Your mileage may vary. I could also add not many MMO's promote and reward actual exploration in this day and age, another thing Zen has talked about.
Three faction PVP is not exactly better than open PVP, it's just different, the balance of power is less likely to be dominated by one large guild, or realm.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
intresting, I would think turning the player number restriction to off as a significant game feature says a lot about how limited we have been trained in our thinking given the options in the market place.
Darkfall was my main MMO and I never considered the open dungeons as a 'feature' per se but it was in fact open but I suppose it was a feature
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For me the new MMO is essentially the problem, as they never tried to offer updated versions of the old IMO superior form (the only real AAA attempt was VG:SOH). Even GW2 is essentially a nod to the old ways more so than it is something brand new, which also puts it on my list of anticipated games, same with Archeage.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson