Where it's a bad thing ? It's a solo-only feature that consumes some vital space in a group-oriented genre.
Why is it solo only? In SWG, I shared a house with another player. We had a large house on Naboo and lived near a player city which, since it took a gorup of players to build, was also not solo. My structures were almost always open to the public so people wandering the wilds could walk in, use the vendors, check out the decoration, etc. As a merchant, I set up some good relationships with repeat customers that way.
Now, I could certainly make structures private, and in the case of my "crafting workshop" house, I did. But, the option for it to be solo and the mandate that it is solo are two different things. Thats like me choosing to quest solo or grouping up with a buddy to do quests. Really, housing can be a social tool just like anything else, but, as many have stated, it needs to be designed with such goals in mind
edit: saw you added "It's like requesting an Angry Bird minigame in WoW : It can be done, and some people will enjoy it, but it's not a priority at all." and couldn't resist.
Angry Birds might not make it, but plenty of room for Plants vs Zombies eh? (http://youtu.be/aWI5XTmGrmo long video, but you get the point)
It's a "solo" feature because no one cares about people's virtual house
(except very rare and ponctual exceptions)
You are wrong and it has already been explained why. SWG is the best example to show a housing implementation with practical and social value. Saying it is a solo feature is short sighted and willfully ignoring the past. This is not to say there are not implementations out there that aren't solo. If you want to say a specific implementation is solo oriented, then sure, but housing as a feature is not inherently solo.
I agree, I can't tell you how many times I would visit player houses in SWG to check out their vendors, or to see if they are on to make some items. Many times we would just hang out and hunt in the immediate area. Groups of us would train up skills to get the elusive Jedi unlock, LOL. All the while just "hanging out" I miss that so much.
The original SWG was a great social experience, as was UO. I have yet to see anything come close to what those game did with their housing system.
Where it's a bad thing ? It's a solo-only feature that consumes some vital space in a group-oriented genre.
Why is it solo only? In SWG, I shared a house with another player. We had a large house on Naboo and lived near a player city which, since it took a gorup of players to build, was also not solo. My structures were almost always open to the public so people wandering the wilds could walk in, use the vendors, check out the decoration, etc. As a merchant, I set up some good relationships with repeat customers that way.
Now, I could certainly make structures private, and in the case of my "crafting workshop" house, I did. But, the option for it to be solo and the mandate that it is solo are two different things. Thats like me choosing to quest solo or grouping up with a buddy to do quests. Really, housing can be a social tool just like anything else, but, as many have stated, it needs to be designed with such goals in mind
edit: saw you added "It's like requesting an Angry Bird minigame in WoW : It can be done, and some people will enjoy it, but it's not a priority at all." and couldn't resist.
Angry Birds might not make it, but plenty of room for Plants vs Zombies eh? (http://youtu.be/aWI5XTmGrmo long video, but you get the point)
It's a "solo" feature because no one cares about people's virtual house
(except very rare and ponctual exceptions)
its not if you were crafting a motorcycle and to assemble it you had to find a home that had a motorcycle garage.
Developers EXPLICTLY make housing a virtual single player experience. its doesnt mean it has to be that way.
People underestimate the technology we are dealing with. Nearly anything that can be imagined can be created in a virtual enviroment but what gets developed is EXTREEMLY narrow compared to what is possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
One time in SWG (lol) I walked into my house to find a guy using my crafting station. There was an awkward moment of silence, then we both exchanged tells. He was commenting on the decoration of the house and on the goods on my vendors, and I told him he could use the station whenever. It was an interesting interaction that housing made possible.
ehh..somthin as lame as "housing" was once a priority in mmo development? damn!!! devs back then were lame to say the least. never cared for housing in mmo and some mmo that i had played with player housing system; had some uber item crafting recipeplans attached to them, never liked being one shotted by players who had a lvl 10 house with all kind of crafting stations and uber items frm crafting. so for me housing in mmo is a "no no" unless ofc teh game is an f2p game.
ehh..somthin as lame as "housing" was once a priority in mmo development? damn!!! devs back then were lame to say the least. never cared for housing in mmo and some mmo that i had played with player housing system; had some uber item crafting recipeplans attached to them, never liked being one shotted by players who had a lvl 10 house with all kind of crafting stations and uber items frm crafting. so for me housing in mmo is a "no no" unless ofc teh game is an f2p game.
how a housing system is designed makes a DRAMATIC difference in the experience.
If there isnt any inherit advantage to going to your house or someone elses house then its going to be lame no matter how much fluff they put in.
That said, players who like housing and crafting are different from players who like combat
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I remember my house in Asherson Call, man the customization options, the items, was so fun. Of course is not a main feature, but it can be made. These days the housing system that are in these mmo games are joke.
It had specific dungeons and quest where you could hunt for epic house items, so another goal for players to visit specific dungeons...
I can't see any negative from having housing in a game, so I say add it in! SWG was one of the best ones with it's player made towns. I had my own canteena and as a musican we had guild events held there. Diffently adds the community to a MMO. One might ask why are you spending time trying to get the next shiney thing if you have no place to display it?
The reason why is because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. In this case the Raid/PvP group of minorities sit and scream louder than the casual gamers who enjoy perks like player housing and a nice crafting system to support it.
VERY VERY VERY VERY (lots more VERY) few players actually want to play house on an online action / combat game. They have to appeal to the masses in order to get the money to continue eating food and such!
EQ2 and LOTRO are probably the only surviving "housing" games on the market and neither are doing very well (in the sense they both are Free2Play now.
Again, The Sims has the housing thing nailed down, if you want to play house then that game is for you. If you want action and combat take your pick on one of the many MMO's on the market. Any of them that have tried to mix the two either failed (likely due to lack of content) or are pretty lack luster on both fronts.
VERY VERY VERY VERY (lots more VERY) few players actually want to play house on an online action / combat game. They have to appeal to the masses in order to get the money to continue eating food and such!
EQ2 and LOTRO are probably the only surviving "housing" games on the market and neither are doing very well (in the sense they both are Free2Play now.
Again, The Sims has the housing thing nailed down, if you want to play house then that game is for you. If you want action and combat take your pick on one of the many MMO's on the market. Any of them that have tried to mix the two either failed (likely due to lack of content) or are pretty lack luster on both fronts.
TOTALLY disagree on more that one level.
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The reason why is because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. In this case the Raid/PvP group of minorities sit and scream louder than the casual gamers who enjoy perks like player housing and a nice crafting system to support it.
It might make you feel better to think Raid and PvP groups are minorities but that is so far from the truth I don't even know where to start. The number of players who couldn't care less about housing and are more interested in PvE quests, dungeons, raids, PvP, and other action/combat/gameplay oriented features is light years ahead of the community that wants the sims features.
Almost no one is AGAINST the idea of having housing considering you can completely ignore it if you aren't interested, however the amount of development resources required to do it right screws the rest of the game over. If they don't do it right, the people who wanted the housing in the first place will complain about how bad it is...
If they do it right (people wills still probably complain) and the rest of the game suffers due to lack of resources. A few games have attempted to mix the two (players build cities) however none of them have survived =(
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
Better do few features well than to have a huge feature list and half-arse it all the way ("the way of the CCP").
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
Better do few features well than to have a huge feature list and half-arse it all the way ("the way of the CCP").
If I was the PR department of a major gaming company this is EXACTLY what I would perfer you focus on.
Has anyone noticed over the past 5 years or so how gaming companies are trying to get people to lower expectations by saying they dont have the money for more features or my favorite telling you that you dont want them
besides the fact its a little hard to say 'you want housing? well there is one game you can play' while at the same time there are billion of games with combat
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The reason why is because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. In this case the Raid/PvP group of minorities sit and scream louder than the casual gamers who enjoy perks like player housing and a nice crafting system to support it.
It might make you feel better to think Raid and PvP groups are minorities but that is so far from the truth I don't even know where to start. The number of players who couldn't care less about housing and are more interested in PvE quests, dungeons, raids, PvP, and other action/combat/gameplay oriented features is light years ahead of the community that wants the sims features.
Almost no one is AGAINST the idea of having housing considering you can completely ignore it if you aren't interested, however the amount of development resources required to do it right screws the rest of the game over. If they don't do it right, the people who wanted the housing in the first place will complain about how bad it is...
If they do it right (people wills still probably complain) and the rest of the game suffers due to lack of resources. A few games have attempted to mix the two (players build cities) however none of them have survived =(
None have survived? Really? DAOC has been canceled? Vanguard is canceled? EQ II canceled? LOTRO canceled? Now you have Rift bringing housing and crafting...is that canceled now? Aion is bringing in housing..game canceled? Another MMO that I dont play but is very popular is Wizard 101 and yes that has housing and is pretty successful..oh wait not surviving. Do we need to go down more just because SWG was canceled is not an indication that it was canceled because people did not like housing or did not prefer it. In fact I would argue that it lasted as long as it did after NGE is because of the crafting and housing. SOE destroyed the game with the NGE system.
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
Better do few features well than to have a huge feature list and half-arse it all the way ("the way of the CCP").
If I was the PR department of a major gaming company this is EXACTLY what I would perfer you focus on.
Has anyone noticed over the past 5 years or so how gaming companies are trying to get people to lower expectations by saying they dont have the money for more features or my favorite telling you that you dont want them
besides the fact its a little hard to say 'you want housing? well there is one game you can play' while at the same time there are billion of games with combat
Its like someone calling themselves a comedian because they got one person to laugh at their jokes, even though the rest are not laughing. I am with ya on these companies trying to dumb the community down. Companies are like the Anglerfish, dangling the light in a dark place convincing us that behind the light is something we want and not to focus on the surroundings just pay attention to the light. We get hypnotized and BAM! our heads get bit off. Not literally just metaphorically of course. The light is symbolic of the graphics and the hidden danger is the pathetic gameplay. Our heads are our wallet and expectations that are associated with payment. Yet we all continue to fall into the trap. Myself especially :P
VERY VERY VERY VERY (lots more VERY) few players actually want to play house on an online action / combat game. They have to appeal to the masses in order to get the money to continue eating food and such!
EQ2 and LOTRO are probably the only surviving "housing" games on the market and neither are doing very well (in the sense they both are Free2Play now.
Again, The Sims has the housing thing nailed down, if you want to play house then that game is for you. If you want action and combat take your pick on one of the many MMO's on the market. Any of them that have tried to mix the two either failed (likely due to lack of content) or are pretty lack luster on both fronts.
TOTALLY disagree on more that one level.
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
1) Well, since housing is no where close to as popular as combat, one is enough.
2) No devs focus on developing housing because that is not what the players want. If housing is such a break-or-make deal for MMOs, i doubt WOW will be that big. In fact, if housing is that big a deal, there will be a lot more SIMS clone, than COD clones.
The way I see it there are a million games with high end raiding and no purpose PvP. You are suppose to repeat the same raid, high end dungeon or do witless Pvp to obtain the proper gear to repeat the same senseless cycle. I truely believe this is what is killing the newer MMO's as many of us just stop playing after leveling our character up.
You want community, add something that will give the masses something purposeful to do. For this I would add player made towns with defenses and capturable objectives. Give PvP some real meat, make it add bonuses as DAoC did, not just a killfest to obtain gear. I want player made advents to give the world color! I want my faction to be Kings!
At the top levels I would add a quest terminal that gives out random generated quests with multiple parts to them. I would include randomly generated reward items so everyone doesn't have the same elite items (which is so boring!). I would have these guests effect small parts of the world or town so completion of the task would be visible. Could be something like clearing a encampment of baddies who would than disappear, only to be replaced by someones elses random quest event.
Add things like player bounties or even guild bounties on peeps who have been bad toward your factions, and yes I want to display my trophies of your demise in my house for all to see!
I want player made quests such as STO has. I want mobs that react when left alone too long and mass up ad attack the next area or town. Make the world alive!
You can make fun of us that want society with our housing, but you won't find me playing your boring high end raid/dungeon/PvP just for meaningless gear so I can repeat the bore.
VERY VERY VERY VERY (lots more VERY) few players actually want to play house on an online action / combat game. They have to appeal to the masses in order to get the money to continue eating food and such!
EQ2 and LOTRO are probably the only surviving "housing" games on the market and neither are doing very well (in the sense they both are Free2Play now.
Again, The Sims has the housing thing nailed down, if you want to play house then that game is for you. If you want action and combat take your pick on one of the many MMO's on the market. Any of them that have tried to mix the two either failed (likely due to lack of content) or are pretty lack luster on both fronts.
TOTALLY disagree on more that one level.
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
1) Well, since housing is no where close to as popular as combat, one is enough.
2) No devs focus on developing housing because that is not what the players want. If housing is such a break-or-make deal for MMOs, i doubt WOW will be that big. In fact, if housing is that big a deal, there will be a lot more SIMS clone, than COD clones.
if you walk into the only bakery in town and all they have are donuts how do you know that your customers do not like cheese cake?
This assumption that the gaming market is completely a demand issue and not a supply issue is getting silly.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
Better do few features well than to have a huge feature list and half-arse it all the way ("the way of the CCP").
If I was the PR department of a major gaming company this is EXACTLY what I would perfer you focus on.
Has anyone noticed over the past 5 years or so how gaming companies are trying to get people to lower expectations by saying they dont have the money for more features or my favorite telling you that you dont want them
besides the fact its a little hard to say 'you want housing? well there is one game you can play' while at the same time there are billion of games with combat
Its like someone calling themselves a comedian because they got one person to laugh at their jokes, even though the rest are not laughing. I am with ya on these companies trying to dumb the community down. Companies are like the Anglerfish, dangling the light in a dark place convincing us that behind the light is something we want and not to focus on the surroundings just pay attention to the light. We get hypnotized and BAM! our heads get bit off. Not literally just metaphorically of course. The light is symbolic of the graphics and the hidden danger is the pathetic gameplay. Our heads are our wallet and expectations that are associated with payment. Yet we all continue to fall into the trap. Myself especially :P
Like I often point out. The issue is not a demand side, its supply side.
If the only motorcycle in town is a crapped out piece of sh8t on a road with 4 wheeled cars you might think nobody likes motorcycles.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Well, first of all housing in todays MMOs is pointless since you don't lose anything there is no point to hoard anything. I want my house to actual be used as something. Anyway, the gamers today is the main reason you don't see these features.
I bet if you ask a lot of MMO gamers, not the ones on the forums and say "Hey, want player housing?" they will say "No" because they've never had a need for it, and it's hard to describe to someone how awesome it really is if they never experienced a true housing (UO, etc and not how LOTRO and other games do it). The problem is it doesn't serve much of a purpose when you never lose anything..
Gamers today want to "win" the MMO. It's crazy, but that's their thought process, so why should a Dev spend all this time creating tools for people to use when MOST players since MMOs went mainstream just want to play it like an SRPG. It sucks, hell, you have people who think they "beat" an FPS when they get max level.
I loved building guild neighborhoods, buying property, waiting for someones house to rot out among the other 50 people scrambling for loot. Ahh, good times.
Well, first of all housing in todays MMOs is pointless since you don't lose anything there is no point to hoard anything. I want my house to actual be used as something. Anyway, the gamers today is the main reason you don't see these features.
I bet if you ask a lot of MMO gamers, not the ones on the forums and say "Hey, want player housing?" they will say "No" because they've never had a need for it, and it's hard to describe to someone how awesome it really is if they never experienced a true housing (UO, etc and not how LOTRO and other games do it). The problem is it doesn't serve much of a purpose when you never lose anything..
Gamers today want to "win" the MMO. It's crazy, but that's their thought process, so why should a Dev spend all this time creating tools for people to use when MOST players since MMOs went mainstream just want to play it like an SRPG. It sucks, hell, you have people who think they "beat" an FPS when they get max level.
I loved building guild neighborhoods, buying property, waiting for someones house to rot out among the other 50 people scrambling for loot. Ahh, good times.
very true.
what I also find intresting is gamers that can't extrapolate what you suggest without having direct experience with it.
I, for example, have never played an MMO with good housing so I really dont care much for it but by the same token it doesnt take much imagination for me to figure out how radically different housing could be with a few modifications.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
like I have already pointed out a few times the housing is those games are EXPLICTLY designed to be sh*ty.
They are basically the used car dealership making you think all cars have 200k miles on them with no air coditioning.
Which of those games gives you an ADVANTAGE for visting someones house?
which one of those games allows you to make a crafting room that has supplies that can not be gathered anywhere else in the region?
which one of those games allows you to have a shop offering goods to people that can not be gained anywhere else.
Where the hell do you come up with these theories? Take off your tinfoil hat.
There is no chance that any developer purposefully designs something bad. They only do it within certain timeframe/budget, and you've been told time and time again its not a priority. So they don't get much if any attention unless you're specifically targeting that niche. WoW wasn't targeted towards that niche - it was targeted towards a larger niche, the mainstream niche. Their customers don't give a two shits about housing. That is why Blizzard hasn't spent any time implementing a housing system. That time was better spent in other areas which their customers actually want.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Well, first of all housing in todays MMOs is pointless since you don't lose anything there is no point to hoard anything. I want my house to actual be used as something. Anyway, the gamers today is the main reason you don't see these features.
I bet if you ask a lot of MMO gamers, not the ones on the forums and say "Hey, want player housing?" they will say "No" because they've never had a need for it, and it's hard to describe to someone how awesome it really is if they never experienced a true housing (UO, etc and not how LOTRO and other games do it). The problem is it doesn't serve much of a purpose when you never lose anything..
Gamers today want to "win" the MMO. It's crazy, but that's their thought process, so why should a Dev spend all this time creating tools for people to use when MOST players since MMOs went mainstream just want to play it like an SRPG. It sucks, hell, you have people who think they "beat" an FPS when they get max level.
I loved building guild neighborhoods, buying property, waiting for someones house to rot out among the other 50 people scrambling for loot. Ahh, good times.
very true.
what I also find intresting is gamers that can't extrapolate what you suggest without having direct experience with it.
I, for example, have never played an MMO with good housing so I really dont care much for it but by the same token it doesnt take much imagination for me to figure out how radically different housing could be with a few modifications.
Your average MMO gamer today though logs in and goes "What do I do?". The issue here is most people can't function without knowing what to do or have a route for it. I really think it's just built into our DNA has humans.
Trying to explain housing to most people isn't worth it because when they think housing in an MMO they are going to think "Why? I have a bank". This all comes down to people being trained to be on a certain path so they aren't used to actually sitting around and socialising just for the fuck of it or actually being exposed to what I called "true" MMORPGs (they've basically taking the RPG out of it)
They want to log in and go go go go go until they "beat" the game. People don't want to "waste time" (which I get if you have maybe only couple hours), but this wouldn't be an issue if people weren't in a race to beat a non-beatable game. It's how most people are programmed unfortunately unless you actually got to experience or have experienced some legit sandbox games. Somehow the MMO market grabbed the FPS crowd or it's their mindset atleast.
Seems to me back in the day MMOs were built to last years. Now they are built to get the cash grab and go F2P within 4 months of release. People also don't think of Housing as endgame, which I do. But, like I said, the mechanics of the game have to kind of support the housing.
Games like UO, The Repopulation, Darkfall, SWG. Those games work perfect with housing.
Games like WoW, Rift, your basic themepark just don't and probably won't because of the way everything is set up. It has to be in the open world though or just outline a giant area within the game that can be used for housing, or certain areas (think Warhammer RvR lakes instead with housing all within that).
Comments
I agree, I can't tell you how many times I would visit player houses in SWG to check out their vendors, or to see if they are on to make some items. Many times we would just hang out and hunt in the immediate area. Groups of us would train up skills to get the elusive Jedi unlock, LOL. All the while just "hanging out" I miss that so much.
The original SWG was a great social experience, as was UO. I have yet to see anything come close to what those game did with their housing system.
its not if you were crafting a motorcycle and to assemble it you had to find a home that had a motorcycle garage.
Developers EXPLICTLY make housing a virtual single player experience. its doesnt mean it has to be that way.
People underestimate the technology we are dealing with. Nearly anything that can be imagined can be created in a virtual enviroment but what gets developed is EXTREEMLY narrow compared to what is possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
One time in SWG (lol) I walked into my house to find a guy using my crafting station. There was an awkward moment of silence, then we both exchanged tells. He was commenting on the decoration of the house and on the goods on my vendors, and I told him he could use the station whenever. It was an interesting interaction that housing made possible.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
ehh..somthin as lame as "housing" was once a priority in mmo development? damn!!! devs back then were lame to say the least. never cared for housing in mmo and some mmo that i had played with player housing system; had some uber item crafting recipeplans attached to them, never liked being one shotted by players who had a lvl 10 house with all kind of crafting stations and uber items frm crafting. so for me housing in mmo is a "no no" unless ofc teh game is an f2p game.
how a housing system is designed makes a DRAMATIC difference in the experience.
If there isnt any inherit advantage to going to your house or someone elses house then its going to be lame no matter how much fluff they put in.
That said, players who like housing and crafting are different from players who like combat
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I remember my house in Asherson Call, man the customization options, the items, was so fun. Of course is not a main feature, but it can be made. These days the housing system that are in these mmo games are joke.
It had specific dungeons and quest where you could hunt for epic house items, so another goal for players to visit specific dungeons...
Knowledge is power, guard it well.
FMMOS
I can't see any negative from having housing in a game, so I say add it in! SWG was one of the best ones with it's player made towns. I had my own canteena and as a musican we had guild events held there. Diffently adds the community to a MMO. One might ask why are you spending time trying to get the next shiney thing if you have no place to display it?
The reason why is because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. In this case the Raid/PvP group of minorities sit and scream louder than the casual gamers who enjoy perks like player housing and a nice crafting system to support it.
Umm... because you could go play The Sims?
VERY VERY VERY VERY (lots more VERY) few players actually want to play house on an online action / combat game. They have to appeal to the masses in order to get the money to continue eating food and such!
EQ2 and LOTRO are probably the only surviving "housing" games on the market and neither are doing very well (in the sense they both are Free2Play now.
Again, The Sims has the housing thing nailed down, if you want to play house then that game is for you. If you want action and combat take your pick on one of the many MMO's on the market. Any of them that have tried to mix the two either failed (likely due to lack of content) or are pretty lack luster on both fronts.
TOTALLY disagree on more that one level.
1. 'because you could go play the sims' also suggests that the gaming industry should just have one game where combat is involved. Your position is, 'one game with said feature is enough'.
2. EQ2 housing is fluff because the developers explictly made it so. Housing itself isnt intrinctly useless, it depends on creative ideas of the developer.
3. the ideas possible for housing at BEST has only scratched the surface.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It might make you feel better to think Raid and PvP groups are minorities but that is so far from the truth I don't even know where to start. The number of players who couldn't care less about housing and are more interested in PvE quests, dungeons, raids, PvP, and other action/combat/gameplay oriented features is light years ahead of the community that wants the sims features.
Almost no one is AGAINST the idea of having housing considering you can completely ignore it if you aren't interested, however the amount of development resources required to do it right screws the rest of the game over. If they don't do it right, the people who wanted the housing in the first place will complain about how bad it is...
If they do it right (people wills still probably complain) and the rest of the game suffers due to lack of resources. A few games have attempted to mix the two (players build cities) however none of them have survived =(
Better do few features well than to have a huge feature list and half-arse it all the way ("the way of the CCP").
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
If I was the PR department of a major gaming company this is EXACTLY what I would perfer you focus on.
Has anyone noticed over the past 5 years or so how gaming companies are trying to get people to lower expectations by saying they dont have the money for more features or my favorite telling you that you dont want them
besides the fact its a little hard to say 'you want housing? well there is one game you can play' while at the same time there are billion of games with combat
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None have survived? Really? DAOC has been canceled? Vanguard is canceled? EQ II canceled? LOTRO canceled? Now you have Rift bringing housing and crafting...is that canceled now? Aion is bringing in housing..game canceled? Another MMO that I dont play but is very popular is Wizard 101 and yes that has housing and is pretty successful..oh wait not surviving. Do we need to go down more just because SWG was canceled is not an indication that it was canceled because people did not like housing or did not prefer it. In fact I would argue that it lasted as long as it did after NGE is because of the crafting and housing. SOE destroyed the game with the NGE system.
1) Well, since housing is no where close to as popular as combat, one is enough.
2) No devs focus on developing housing because that is not what the players want. If housing is such a break-or-make deal for MMOs, i doubt WOW will be that big. In fact, if housing is that big a deal, there will be a lot more SIMS clone, than COD clones.
The way I see it there are a million games with high end raiding and no purpose PvP. You are suppose to repeat the same raid, high end dungeon or do witless Pvp to obtain the proper gear to repeat the same senseless cycle. I truely believe this is what is killing the newer MMO's as many of us just stop playing after leveling our character up.
You want community, add something that will give the masses something purposeful to do. For this I would add player made towns with defenses and capturable objectives. Give PvP some real meat, make it add bonuses as DAoC did, not just a killfest to obtain gear. I want player made advents to give the world color! I want my faction to be Kings!
At the top levels I would add a quest terminal that gives out random generated quests with multiple parts to them. I would include randomly generated reward items so everyone doesn't have the same elite items (which is so boring!). I would have these guests effect small parts of the world or town so completion of the task would be visible. Could be something like clearing a encampment of baddies who would than disappear, only to be replaced by someones elses random quest event.
Add things like player bounties or even guild bounties on peeps who have been bad toward your factions, and yes I want to display my trophies of your demise in my house for all to see!
I want player made quests such as STO has. I want mobs that react when left alone too long and mass up ad attack the next area or town. Make the world alive!
You can make fun of us that want society with our housing, but you won't find me playing your boring high end raid/dungeon/PvP just for meaningless gear so I can repeat the bore.
if you walk into the only bakery in town and all they have are donuts how do you know that your customers do not like cheese cake?
This assumption that the gaming market is completely a demand issue and not a supply issue is getting silly.
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Like I often point out. The issue is not a demand side, its supply side.
If the only motorcycle in town is a crapped out piece of sh8t on a road with 4 wheeled cars you might think nobody likes motorcycles.
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But we do have housing in many games, and it is not a hugely demanded/popular feature.
TOR got ripped by its user base demanding LFD because WOW has it.
Did the WOW player base demand housing because EQ2 (and many other games) has it? No.
like I have already pointed out a few times the housing is those games are EXPLICTLY designed to be sh*ty.
They are basically the used car dealership making you think all cars have 200k miles on them with no air coditioning.
Which of those games gives you an ADVANTAGE for visting someones house?
which one of those games allows you to make a crafting room that has supplies that can not be gathered anywhere else in the region?
which one of those games allows you to have a shop offering goods to people that can not be gained anywhere else.
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OP
Well, first of all housing in todays MMOs is pointless since you don't lose anything there is no point to hoard anything. I want my house to actual be used as something. Anyway, the gamers today is the main reason you don't see these features.
I bet if you ask a lot of MMO gamers, not the ones on the forums and say "Hey, want player housing?" they will say "No" because they've never had a need for it, and it's hard to describe to someone how awesome it really is if they never experienced a true housing (UO, etc and not how LOTRO and other games do it). The problem is it doesn't serve much of a purpose when you never lose anything..
Gamers today want to "win" the MMO. It's crazy, but that's their thought process, so why should a Dev spend all this time creating tools for people to use when MOST players since MMOs went mainstream just want to play it like an SRPG. It sucks, hell, you have people who think they "beat" an FPS when they get max level.
I loved building guild neighborhoods, buying property, waiting for someones house to rot out among the other 50 people scrambling for loot. Ahh, good times.
very true.
what I also find intresting is gamers that can't extrapolate what you suggest without having direct experience with it.
I, for example, have never played an MMO with good housing so I really dont care much for it but by the same token it doesnt take much imagination for me to figure out how radically different housing could be with a few modifications.
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Where the hell do you come up with these theories? Take off your tinfoil hat.
There is no chance that any developer purposefully designs something bad. They only do it within certain timeframe/budget, and you've been told time and time again its not a priority. So they don't get much if any attention unless you're specifically targeting that niche. WoW wasn't targeted towards that niche - it was targeted towards a larger niche, the mainstream niche. Their customers don't give a two shits about housing. That is why Blizzard hasn't spent any time implementing a housing system. That time was better spent in other areas which their customers actually want.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Your average MMO gamer today though logs in and goes "What do I do?". The issue here is most people can't function without knowing what to do or have a route for it. I really think it's just built into our DNA has humans.
Trying to explain housing to most people isn't worth it because when they think housing in an MMO they are going to think "Why? I have a bank". This all comes down to people being trained to be on a certain path so they aren't used to actually sitting around and socialising just for the fuck of it or actually being exposed to what I called "true" MMORPGs (they've basically taking the RPG out of it)
They want to log in and go go go go go until they "beat" the game. People don't want to "waste time" (which I get if you have maybe only couple hours), but this wouldn't be an issue if people weren't in a race to beat a non-beatable game. It's how most people are programmed unfortunately unless you actually got to experience or have experienced some legit sandbox games. Somehow the MMO market grabbed the FPS crowd or it's their mindset atleast.
Seems to me back in the day MMOs were built to last years. Now they are built to get the cash grab and go F2P within 4 months of release. People also don't think of Housing as endgame, which I do. But, like I said, the mechanics of the game have to kind of support the housing.
Games like UO, The Repopulation, Darkfall, SWG. Those games work perfect with housing.
Games like WoW, Rift, your basic themepark just don't and probably won't because of the way everything is set up. It has to be in the open world though or just outline a giant area within the game that can be used for housing, or certain areas (think Warhammer RvR lakes instead with housing all within that).