I find it funny that what the OP says most of you go on the defensive, my guess is most of you have no clue what a true sandbox game is, mention eve and honestly , eve is as fun as Microsoft Excel, I played it for afew years.
To me a sandbox means huge wide open world , with scattered quests that doesn't have one or two quests hubs in a single area.
My example of sandbox games, FE, Shadow Bane , EQ , SWG , Earth and beyond , PS1 , Never played Darkfall so can't coment, but to me GW2 feels little like the rest of these sandboxes that I mentioned. There's alot more to a Sandbox mmorpg than just building crap, that started with SWG , but was not the first sandbox, and the way GW2 has these dynamic events placed with the way the world is layed out , with the lack of a quest hub , to me this is a sandbox with some themepark elements , example , story quest , and the starter cities are the real only themepark elements. So, as I said , having played those games that I have mentioned I know what a sandbox is , is GW2 a true sandbox ? No but it has some of the elements that make up a sandox, vice versa for themepark lables as well.
For the rest of you who say to lock this thread based on what the OP said, grow up and get out, because everyone has a right to their own opinion, and when you talk like that you sound like a bloody idiot.
That is the beauty of having an opinion. You can get away with just anything.
In my opinion EVE is a best themepark MMO because it offers daily missions...
SWTOR is the best sandbox ever because you can make actual choices in your personall storyline that change the outcome of things.
Originally posted by MMOExposed Originally posted by AeliousOriginally posted by coretex666It is pure themepark.
So far (1-15) it technically is though it hides it really well. It's not a sandbox by any means though, sorry OP. Personally I think there should be a few more catagories, themepark and sandbox just don't cut it anymore.I would call GW2 a freeform game since it has backwards compatibility and events.freeform is not what defines sandbox and themepark.
sandbox is define by the sand, as in, players can create and control the world. take Minecraft here. You can build the world you play in.
themepark/ sandbox has nothing to do with open world,m and freedom to explore. you could do that in any themepark mmo (WoW, EQ1, DAoC)
themepark mmo is a mmo designed around developer's control, as in developers content.
its not really called sandbox because of having anything to do with sand, or a box. its because when you are 4, in a sandbox, your imagination is the only limit.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I find it funny that what the OP says most of you go on the defensive, my guess is most of you have no clue what a true sandbox game is, mention eve and honestly , eve is as fun as Microsoft Excel, I played it for afew years.
To me a sandbox means ...
*pops open the champaign*
Ladies and gentlemen, the party has officially started.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's not a sandbox, but it definately is the first themepark mmorpg where you can just wander off into the wild and still get stuff done, and feel like you are doing something meaningful.
Last night I just went to see if there's anything at a hill top, and it lead me to wander around for two hours untill I realized "Oh yes I was going to do the next part of the story q" and that's really amazing for a themepark. Normally you just do what you are supposed to (follow quest hubs or trail) do since that's all there is.
Plenty of GW2 fans claim GW2 to be a sandbox, in this thread here and in many threads before. Even Garret Fuller (MMORPG.com staff) claims it's a sandbox in his article here
Originally posted by Garret Fuller Make no mistake, Guild Wars 2 is very much a sandbox MMORPG in many respects, while still focusing on dev-created content at its core.
I'm at loss how anybody could call it a sandbox, but hey, that's what they do.
Sometimes I think that the typical GW2 fan is firmly rooted in the themepark genre and has actually never played a sandbox MMORPG in his entire life. And now comes a themepark game that is just a little bit different than the others and pronto: it's a bit different, it must be a sandbox.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Guild Wars 2 may not technically be a sandbox but I dont think it would be accurate to just write it off as another themepark.
Here's my themepark analogy
Swtor-Secret World-Tera ect..would be a Haunted House attraction, You walk in its small cramped and there is but one way to travel, Although intially entertaining by the time you are at the exit you can't help but feel you have seen this place before. Good while it lasted but over in the blink of a eye.
WOW for many of us was like a carnival, Alot of stuff to see and do, No linear path for attractions. GuildWars 2 is like Disney Land or Epcot, Its a themepark just packed with things going on, There is so many ways & options to explore the park, You feel like you are in a small world.
It's not a sandbox, but it definately is the first themepark mmorpg where you can just wander off into the wild and still get stuff done, and feel like you are doing something meaningful.
Last night I just went to see if there's anything at a hill top, and it lead me to wander around for two hours untill I realized "Oh yes I was going to do the next part of the story q" and that's really amazing for a themepark. Normally you just do what you are supposed to (follow quest hubs or trail) do since that's all there is.
Originally posted by Syno23 I hate themepark games where you go to one area get the quests and do them and move onto the next area. In GW2 you can explore every inch of every area. Don't have to do the story quest right away. Different areas to explore like all the starting areas for each race PLUS other areas. I don't feel like I'm in a linear game. But a nice relaxing sandbox style.
First of all, you're trying too hard. Not every thought that comes into your head needs to be a new thread. Take it down a notch. Second of all, you obviously have no idea what the word "sandbox" means.
I guess it depends on each player's definition of "Sandbox". I do agree 100% that GW2 is nowhere near a sandbox game, but the definition isn't as clear cut as lots of people feel it is. For example, I've heard lots of people call skyrim and fallout 3+ single player sandbox games (I don't agree, they're more of an open world theme park games, IMHO)... and honestly, the feel I'm getting when playing GW2 is the exact same feel I got when playing either of those, just going around finding new places, new things to do, just trying to see what's behind that hill, what's on top of those rocks, and stuff like that, with the main story (personal story) something to do on the side.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Its neither a thempark, nor a sandbox. Its GW2 style, which means that noboddy is holding your hand and you have a lot of freedom to choose what to do or how to build your character.*
*As long as it involves combat
Seriously though. Give the OP a break. He's 18 and excited about his new favorite game. He may not know what a sandbox is, but he is having a lot of fun.
Hmm, disappointing, You're usually not this obvious about it.
3/10
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It's not a sandbox, but it definately is the first themepark mmorpg where you can just wander off into the wild and still get stuff done, and feel like you are doing something meaningful.
Last night I just went to see if there's anything at a hill top, and it lead me to wander around for two hours untill I realized "Oh yes I was going to do the next part of the story q" and that's really amazing for a themepark. Normally you just do what you are supposed to (follow quest hubs or trail) do since that's all there is.
Nope that would be Vanguard.
Ah sorry, that might be, I should have said I'm only listing games though with more recognized reputation, vanguard isnt on that list.
Originally posted by Deriums I'm loving the game, but it's NOT a sandbox at all. You can't build anything (houses, bases, eye cndy), there are levels, item stats, limited interaction with the enviroment ect ect.
Wasting virtual space by building virtual crap is not the definition of Sandbox either ...
Plus, according to Wikipedia, GW2 is a sandbox gamedesign :
While this is not the most sandboxy game of all the sandbox games, just like WoW is not the most RPGy of all the RPG games... it still has a sandbox oriented gamedesign. Period.
If I wanted to nitpick, I'd take what Wiki's calling a "true sandbox game" :
"A true "sandbox" is where the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play"
... and say that GW2 is by definition a true sandbox game. Players do have ways to modify the world, by triggering DEs (DEs are modified versions of the world, by definition). And players do create how they play, as there's no fixed goal. Now you can nitpick my nitpick down to hell, but this is not the point. The point is that refusing to call GW2 a sandbox gamedesign is erroneous.
Saying GW2 is not a true sandbox is like saying Tomb Raider is not a true adventure game. It's biased upon your own ideals.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I'm sorry, but GW2 has almost nothing in common with a sandbox. It is about as themepark as it gets if you ask me. The only difference is that instead of a narrow path leading from attraction to attraction in order, you can experience the themepark's attractions in the order of your choosing. Other than that though, it is pretty much exactly the same.
This "debate" (more like "arguing on semantics") is as old as MMORPGs, if not older.
Even WoW, the "god" of all theme parks, has sandbox elements, even if only a few.
While GW2 lacks sandbox elements like beeing able to build/shape the world, it's less restrictive and linear gameplay is definitely similar to sandbox gameplay. Instead of the usual themepark "ok I'm this level I need to go in those specific areas", the world opens up the more you progress, just like in a sandbox.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
There are two definitions of sandbox floating around out there.
One is the original sandbox defintion, where a sandbox basically meant a free-roaming open-world with an emphasis on exploration, where the player can choose to ignore the "main" storyline if they want and go their own way. This wiki page has more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world. Under this defintion, games like GTA, Skyrim, Burnout: Paradise, and Dark Souls, Minecraft, and UO are all sandboxes.
Then there is the "nuveau" MMORPG definition of sandbox where a sandbox is a world where the content and/or experiences are primarily player-created and driven. This is a very narrow definition, and the only games that really fall under are games like UO, Eve, and Minecraft.
I will be honest, I do not like the nuveau definition. I do not like it because...
A. It causes arguments like these.
B. It causes several posts where someone has an "epiphany" that if you change the definition of a genre, then games that used to be in that genre, no longer qualify. IE, "OMG Skyrim is not a sandbox!"
C. Along the lines of B, it creates a definition of sandboxes for MMORPGs that is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the sandbox definition for SPRPGs...this isn't bound to cause confusion.
I don't see why we just can't call games like UO, Eve, and Minecraft "player driven," or "virtual world," instead of "stealing" the pre-existing term sandbox and then screaming at anyone that dares to use the ORIGINAL definition of sandbox that has been around for DECADES.
There are two definitions of sandbox floating around out there.
One is the original sandbox defintion, where a sandbox basically meant a free-roaming open-world with an emphasis on exploration, where the player can choose to ignore the "main" storyline if they want and go their own way. This wiki page has more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world. Under this defintion, games like GTA, Skyrim, Burnout: Paradise, and Dark Souls, Minecraft, and UO are all sandboxes.
Then there is the "nuveau" MMORPG definition of sandbox where a sandbox is a world where the content and/or experiences are primarily player-created and driven. This is a very narrow definition, and the only games that really fall under are games like UO, Eve, and Minecraft.
I will be honest, I do not like the nuveau definition. I do not like it because...
A. It causes arguments like these.
B. It causes several posts where someone has an "epiphany" that if you change the definition of a genre, then games that used to be in that genre, no longer qualify. IE, "OMG Skyrim is not a sandbox!"
C. Along the lines of B, it creates a definition of sandboxes for MMORPGs that is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the sandbox definition for SPRPGs...this isn't bound to cause confusion.
I don't see why we just can't call games like UO, Eve, and Minecraft "player driven," or "virtual world," instead of "stealing" the pre-existing term sandbox and then screaming at anyone that dares to use the ORIGINAL definition of sandbox that has been around for DECADES.
We were having this discussion at work today and everyone I talked to feels this game plays more like a sandbox than any other MMO of recent years.. but talking to them their definition of sandbox is like your first example and open world that has a major focus on exploration and doesn't tie you to a story unless you want ot do it. They also say a game that lets you play how you want and level how you want makes it play more like a sandbox.. but again really depends on what you consider a sandbox.. If you look at wiki An open world(sandbox) is a type of video gamelevel design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.. GW2 would fall under this but then look at the second sentance it says generally without loading screens and such.. so in ways it is sort of middle ground in this respect
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Guild Wars 2 may not technically be a sandbox but I dont think it would be accurate to just write it off as another themepark.
Here's my themepark analogy
Swtor-Secret World-Tera ect..would be a Haunted House attraction, You walk in its small cramped and there is but one way to travel, Although intially entertaining by the time you are at the exit you can't help but feel you have seen this place before. Good while it lasted but over in the blink of a eye.
WOW for many of us was like a carnival, Alot of stuff to see and do, No linear path for attractions. GuildWars 2 is like Disney Land or Epcot, Its a themepark just packed with things going on, There is so many ways & options to explore the park, You feel like you are in a small world.
Comments
SWTOR is the best sandbox ever because you can make actual choices in your personall storyline that change the outcome of things.
freeform is not what defines sandbox and themepark.
sandbox is define by the sand, as in, players can create and control the world. take Minecraft here. You can build the world you play in.
themepark/ sandbox has nothing to do with open world,m and freedom to explore. you could do that in any themepark mmo (WoW, EQ1, DAoC)
themepark mmo is a mmo designed around developer's control, as in developers content.
its not really called sandbox because of having anything to do with sand, or a box. its because when you are 4, in a sandbox, your imagination is the only limit.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
TROLL ALERT !!!
This is not the 1st thread, where this guy makes a fully absurd statement and never answers to the posts afterwards.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
*pops open the champaign*
Ladies and gentlemen, the party has officially started.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's not a sandbox, but it definately is the first themepark mmorpg where you can just wander off into the wild and still get stuff done, and feel like you are doing something meaningful.
Last night I just went to see if there's anything at a hill top, and it lead me to wander around for two hours untill I realized "Oh yes I was going to do the next part of the story q" and that's really amazing for a themepark. Normally you just do what you are supposed to (follow quest hubs or trail) do since that's all there is.
Plenty of GW2 fans claim GW2 to be a sandbox, in this thread here and in many threads before. Even Garret Fuller (MMORPG.com staff) claims it's a sandbox in his article here
I'm at loss how anybody could call it a sandbox, but hey, that's what they do.
Sometimes I think that the typical GW2 fan is firmly rooted in the themepark genre and has actually never played a sandbox MMORPG in his entire life. And now comes a themepark game that is just a little bit different than the others and pronto: it's a bit different, it must be a sandbox.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Guild Wars 2 may not technically be a sandbox but I dont think it would be accurate to just write it off as another themepark.
Here's my themepark analogy
Swtor-Secret World-Tera ect..would be a Haunted House attraction, You walk in its small cramped and there is but one way to travel, Although intially entertaining by the time you are at the exit you can't help but feel you have seen this place before. Good while it lasted but over in the blink of a eye.
WOW for many of us was like a carnival, Alot of stuff to see and do, No linear path for attractions. GuildWars 2 is like Disney Land or Epcot, Its a themepark just packed with things going on, There is so many ways & options to explore the park, You feel like you are in a small world.
Aloha Mr Hand !
Nope that would be Vanguard.
Bite Me
First of all, you're trying too hard. Not every thought that comes into your head needs to be a new thread. Take it down a notch. Second of all, you obviously have no idea what the word "sandbox" means.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Seriously though. Give the OP a break. He's 18 and excited about his new favorite game. He may not know what a sandbox is, but he is having a lot of fun.
How does this thread even exist.
Now im convinced...GW2 fans have completely lost their mind.
Hmm, disappointing, You're usually not this obvious about it.
3/10
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Ah sorry, that might be, I should have said I'm only listing games though with more recognized reputation, vanguard isnt on that list.
Wasting virtual space by building virtual crap is not the definition of Sandbox either ...
Plus, according to Wikipedia, GW2 is a sandbox gamedesign :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game
[mod edit]
While this is not the most sandboxy game of all the sandbox games, just like WoW is not the most RPGy of all the RPG games... it still has a sandbox oriented gamedesign. Period.
If I wanted to nitpick, I'd take what Wiki's calling a "true sandbox game" :
"A true "sandbox" is where the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play"
... and say that GW2 is by definition a true sandbox game. Players do have ways to modify the world, by triggering DEs (DEs are modified versions of the world, by definition). And players do create how they play, as there's no fixed goal. Now you can nitpick my nitpick down to hell, but this is not the point. The point is that refusing to call GW2 a sandbox gamedesign is erroneous.
Saying GW2 is not a true sandbox is like saying Tomb Raider is not a true adventure game. It's biased upon your own ideals.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
This "debate" (more like "arguing on semantics") is as old as MMORPGs, if not older.
Even WoW, the "god" of all theme parks, has sandbox elements, even if only a few.
While GW2 lacks sandbox elements like beeing able to build/shape the world, it's less restrictive and linear gameplay is definitely similar to sandbox gameplay. Instead of the usual themepark "ok I'm this level I need to go in those specific areas", the world opens up the more you progress, just like in a sandbox.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
This ^^^ Again!
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
WHO CARES? I don't and am enjoying the game immensely.
Does it change your game experience if it is a Thempark versus a Sandbox? It doesn't and if it does for you then you have issues.
Just enjoy the game - who cares what it is.
There are two definitions of sandbox floating around out there.
One is the original sandbox defintion, where a sandbox basically meant a free-roaming open-world with an emphasis on exploration, where the player can choose to ignore the "main" storyline if they want and go their own way. This wiki page has more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world. Under this defintion, games like GTA, Skyrim, Burnout: Paradise, and Dark Souls, Minecraft, and UO are all sandboxes.
Then there is the "nuveau" MMORPG definition of sandbox where a sandbox is a world where the content and/or experiences are primarily player-created and driven. This is a very narrow definition, and the only games that really fall under are games like UO, Eve, and Minecraft.
I will be honest, I do not like the nuveau definition. I do not like it because...
A. It causes arguments like these.
B. It causes several posts where someone has an "epiphany" that if you change the definition of a genre, then games that used to be in that genre, no longer qualify. IE, "OMG Skyrim is not a sandbox!"
C. Along the lines of B, it creates a definition of sandboxes for MMORPGs that is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the sandbox definition for SPRPGs...this isn't bound to cause confusion.
I don't see why we just can't call games like UO, Eve, and Minecraft "player driven," or "virtual world," instead of "stealing" the pre-existing term sandbox and then screaming at anyone that dares to use the ORIGINAL definition of sandbox that has been around for DECADES.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
We were having this discussion at work today and everyone I talked to feels this game plays more like a sandbox than any other MMO of recent years.. but talking to them their definition of sandbox is like your first example and open world that has a major focus on exploration and doesn't tie you to a story unless you want ot do it. They also say a game that lets you play how you want and level how you want makes it play more like a sandbox.. but again really depends on what you consider a sandbox.. If you look at wiki An open world(sandbox) is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.. GW2 would fall under this but then look at the second sentance it says generally without loading screens and such.. so in ways it is sort of middle ground in this respect
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Well Said!!