Clearly. My real question is, why is this progression such a big deal to you people? Is it really changing your enjoyment of the game? I really don't get what it is that's being said, sorry, but I'm the person that dinged 80 thinking he was dinging 79, that's how hard I look at the levels.
Is it stopping me from playing? nope. But does it make me go 'meh' every now and then? yes. But since i have always been more of an explorer kind i am dealing with it as tme passes by.
Maybe if i never played GW1 i wouldn't even feel that GW2 skills are very limited and controlled for players by Anet. It is like they took 3 steps backward in skill system and 2 steps ahead in everything else.
I disagree with this one. Hunting eliete skills made the game feel like there was more content then there actually was, and while builds were many, there were many skills that were simply useless. Does skill progression need improvement, sure. Do we need more weapon skills or the ones we have take longer to learn to make it better. Not IMO. While more would be nice, I don't see it as necessary as adding more utility skills with more varried affects.
I am not holding my breathe on weapon skills. I am also talking about utility / slot skills. I hope they add those lot more in future.
Even TSW gave one extra slot on hotbar and added new skills in three months. I am sure GW2 can expand on it too.
If you want the build variation that GW1 had I hear playing ele is a hassle with managing skills since every time you attune your build changes maybe they'll make more classes like it?
If you want the build variation that GW1 had I hear playing ele is a hassle with managing skills since every time you attune your build changes maybe they'll make more classes like it?
Originally posted by bcbully Perfect example; I just hit 54. You know what I got? 1% increase to boon duration and 40 toughness... That's weaksauce.
You think that's weak? OK... tell me what you're going to get at level 55.
1% increase to boon duration, 40 toughness and a chance to summon a jagged horror after killing an enemy... For thouse who don't know a horror is similar to a blood worm, or a very weak passive dot. Yes that's weaksauce.
Actually, it's more than that. It's another target for the bad guys to worry about. It's taking damage that would have otherwise been meant for you. As such, it makes you last longer in the fight, it adds some damage to the enemy and it adds a layer of confusion with additional minions on the map.
I don't recommend getting all the utility skills by level 40, and you still need to gather skill challenges to be able to use exotics when you hit 80, it doesn't end at 40.
IMO this game isn't about progress, I haven't really bothered looking at what level I am in a while, I just roam around kiling and gathering stuff and queuing for WvW (which you level up in as well). If you're worried about progress, stop playing GW2 now.
In other words play like i do or stop playing.
Do we really have to start this again?
Wait wait! *scans sookster54's post* where does it say "play like I do"? Can you underline it for me? sookster is just providing a frame of reference. It's like saying "I had no problem installing this harddrive. I just did x, y, and z and it was fine." Though telling him to stop playing isn't helping much either.
He said in his opinion game isn't about progression and he doesn't care about levels and go around killing stuff. He should have just stopped there instead of telling him that if you enjoy progression stop playing because clearly he doesn't enjoy it so others shouldn't.
There are various versions of 'you are doing it wrong' and this is just another one of many.
Sir repeats alot strikes again. Pretty sure I just pointed that out...
Clearly. My real question is, why is this progression such a big deal to you people? Is it really changing your enjoyment of the game? I really don't get what it is that's being said, sorry, but I'm the person that dinged 80 thinking he was dinging 79, that's how hard I look at the levels.
Is it stopping me from playing? nope. But does it make me go 'meh' every now and then? yes. But since i have always been more of an explorer kind i am dealing with it as tme passes by.
Maybe if i never played GW1 i wouldn't even feel that GW2 skills are very limited and controlled for players by Anet. It is like they took 3 steps backward in skill system and 2 steps ahead in everything else.
I disagree with this one. Hunting eliete skills made the game feel like there was more content then there actually was, and while builds were many, there were many skills that were simply useless. Does skill progression need improvement, sure. Do we need more weapon skills or the ones we have take longer to learn to make it better. Not IMO. While more would be nice, I don't see it as necessary as adding more utility skills with more varried affects.
I am not holding my breathe on weapon skills. I am also talking about utility / slot skills. I hope they add those lot more in future.
Even TSW gave one extra slot on hotbar and added new skills in three months. I am sure GW2 can expand on it too.
If you want the build variation that GW1 had I hear playing ele is a hassle with managing skills since every time you attune your build changes maybe they'll make more classes like it?
Ele isn't really that much of a hassle. The only difference is that instead of swapping weapons in combat you swap attunements. Since there are four attunements you have 20 weapon skills to use in a fight across the 4 attunements instead of having 10 weapon skills across two weapons for other classes. I would say that it is more complex than other classes but still not as complex as other MMOs.
I was always loking forward to unlock minor and major traits and hitting level 40 and level 60 to get newer and more powerful traits.
Changing traits clearly change the way you play even with the same weapon set - once I got the trait to make shouts heal and defy pain at under 25%, I was in the face of mobs much longer. Or I can change my spec and just spam burst skills all day long and become a killing machine.
It is fun all the talk about TSW skill wheel when half of those skills are passive skills and in fact there are a ton of weeksauce skills - just go say that some area is hard in TSW forums and they will point you should get better skills/build.
And if people never heard complains about skill balance problems in GW1 you must have been working hard to avoid hearing them or just not playing.
And hunting bosses to cap skills is not really fun when the damn elite that is actually good is at the end of the campaign.
And considering many elites are useless even after being buffed...
I, for once, I'm really happy that when i enter a dungeon I wont have to worry if that silly monk is bringing ressurect or that idiot warrior is using healing breeze.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I am going to illustrate our exchanges to demonstrate how you are coming off to me:
Assumption 1:
in any MMO you spend most of your play time at max level not getting new skills either.
This also. As I said, I really don't get this argument. I guess it has omething to do with it "makign it easier to level by looking forward to something" but if I felt that way... I'd just not play the game? Getting a new skill ever x levels is not going to make me like the game more or less. And as you say, what then at max level?
Reason: I don’t typically play at max level. Usually the whole progression/journey to max is the game for me. So this statement above you are agreeing with and expanding upon is an assumption on your part.
Assumption 2:
“But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds.”
Reason: One thing can make or break a game for a lot of people. Changing the skill progression will change the outlook of the game for me and it will most certainly last more than 5 seconds. Your belief othwerwise is an assumption on your part.
Attack 1:
Did i type *OMG YOU SUX YOU IIHD)PADUU" No. I'm trying to understand what it is that you enjoy so much of a weak mechanic that is there just to act as a carrot instead of enjoying the gameplay.
Reason: Calling skill progression (which I consider a fundamental core of an RPG to be a “weak mechanic that is there just to act as a carrot instead of enjoying the gameplay” is a very opiniated statement. You could have used words like:
“I don’t understand what it is you enjoy about that feature” instead of adding a very negative and opinionated view before hand.
Attack #2:
Also "making a conclusion based on inaccurate assumptions" seems to be your life motto.
Reason: See assumption #1 made by you. I pointed this out. In return you attacked me with the above statement.
Attack #3:
Because you use words without knowing what they mean (or maybe how to use them - such as defensive). I reserve telling peeps to respect other people's tastes when they're flaming and such, not when they are simply trying to understand what the deal is.
I read it, and what I get is "I need it to level, it helps me get to the end." If that's the case, ok then, got it.
Different strokes for different folks.
Reason: Passive/Aggressive stance here. Blatantly stating I don’t understand the definitions to words or the way in which they should be used is a verbal attack.
Final comment by you:
Reread your posts, unless it's someone else typing them for you you should be able to figure it out.
Blocking you btw, there's no point carrying on a conversation with someone that insists on reading things that aren't there and then proceeds to ignore replies in favour of picking on something else.
My thoughts: Ok, I don’t understand how you came to this, but I think it is you that may need to learn some proper manners and reflect a bit on what you type before you type it.I don't see how I was being disrepectful at all and I think I need to express how youare making me feel attacked.
You pick some spells for your bar? Hmm, interesting.
61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40.
If that's what he's saying then he's full of crap. You don't unlock your last trait point until level 80, and if you don't think traits significantly affect how you play you may want to sit down and really take a good look at the system. Simply unlocking the major trait where my clones cripple foes when destroyed had changed how my mesmer plays, let alone others.
Yes, you have a set number of skills available based on weapons, and a larger set of utilities. When you combine them with traits, though, is when you really see the complexity of the system. Suddenly those skills you unlocked on your wepaons do a whole lot more.
He is talking about active skills not passive traits.
Right now GW1, TSW and even Rift gives you a lot more option in skill variation. What if i want to stick to only one weapon? are you telling me i should be penalized in a MMO which says play how you want because i prefer hammer as a warrior?
If I recall, isn't one of the perks of being a warrior being able to switch weapons in combat without any penality? Since weapon swapping is at the core of warrior design, damned right you should be penalized for foresaking that.
OK, GW2 does it differently. Instead of holding back skills until you level, you get all your weapon skills early (but still have to unlock utilities as you progress). You're given pretty much the whole levelling curve to master your weapon skills and to change how those skills work through traiting. Combine that with the utilities you progressively unlock and it's a more complex system than people give it credit for. Like they shot for... easy to learn, difficult to master.
Bingo. I do tend to agree that the weapons skills may be a little lacking in variety, but it makes total sense what you've been saying. It seems they've decided to use a litle realism in how weapons function in relation to skills in this game. For instance, there are only so many ways to use a sword, but within each sword skill are many subtleties. Those subtleties come out in the trait system, if I'm understanding correctly. Maybe that's where the problem is: Subtlety. We're so used to having flashy new skills shoved in our faces that we miss the more subtle things.
I can't say for sure that this is what they were trying to do, but it sounds right to me.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
to me the option of swapping out weapons and trait to fit the situation makes me a happy pappy. I can customize my abilities or completly change my entire play style just by changing things up a bit in my trait bars and utilities. For example on my elementalist I use a DD build when soloing but in a zerg situation swap out to a staff
Originally posted by Jackdog to me the option of swapping out weapons and trait to fit the situation makes me a happy pappy. I can customize my abilities or completly change my entire play style just by changing things up a bit in my trait bars and utilities. For example on my elementalist I use a DD build when soloing but in a zerg situation swap out to a staff
Which bums me out that elementalists don't get weapon swap. I know you can just change elements, but it's just a pain to have to swap from inventory to go from a staff's long range abilities to the shorter range ones in a DD build.
If they had given Elementalists weapon swap, but only out of combat, that would make me happy.
Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.
Originally posted by Pigozz
I think you all know what I mean
The weapon skills all learned around first 7 levels
And pretty much all utility abillities learned by level 40 (if you grind challenges)
I think OP said pretty much all. He never said all of them.
He said it... doesn't mean he's right. The weapon skills you can learn all early, that's not in dispute. The utilities will take you well past level 40, and by ignoring traits he ignores a significant part of the build process, which is disingenuous at best.
Jeeez people read what I wrote...so many missleading posts
Yes you can have almost every utility IF YOU GRIND CHALLENGES (except elites) by lvl 40
I NEVER IGNORED traits, I said they're PASSIVE ENHANCEMENTS which is not very entertaining, as someone wrote, it's basically only min/maxing your character
When I hit lvl 70, or 80 I want to receive some ultimate mindblowing ability to feel like an experienced veteran of world of Tyria, this is what RPGs are basicaly about IMO
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
I can understand your position OP and I feel the same way to some extent.
I really, really hope at some point Anet releases not just more weapon options but more skills per weapon and lets us choose our first 5 abilities for a specific weapon.
More like GW1.
It is rather limited now, and I seem to only really, really like 1-2 abilities per weapon or weapon set.
I do end up pushing all 10 in a big fight, but even the Elite skills just don't have that same... Umph to me as some of the uber-high level abilities in other MMOs you get.
Like I was recently reading some WoW:MoP stuff and saw the Elemental Shaman ability for level 89 I think - transform into some kind of lava elemental and get something called "Lava Beam"?
Jeeez people read what I wrote...so many missleading posts
Yes you can have almost every utility IF YOU GRIND CHALLENGES (except elites) by lvl 40
I NEVER IGNORED traits, I said they're PASSIVE ENHANCEMENTS which is not very entertaining, as someone wrote, it's basically only min/maxing your character
When I hit lvl 70, or 80 I want to receive some ultimate mindblowing ability to feel like an experienced veteran of world of Tyria, this is what RPGs are basicaly about IMO
Ooh, naughty naughty boy. Exempting elites now to fudge the numbers. That's at least 100 points of skills you're ignoring now.
And no, traits are not purely passive enhancements. They actively change how skills work (mesmer shatters, for example) which changes how you actively use them. Before I put focus on clone traits, for example, it seemed like a good idea to keep a couple phantasms up and one clone for regular replacement. But, now that my clones do so much more due to traits, I'm popping them little mini-mes like popcorn. Many are passive, yes. Many, however, directly change your active play.
I can understand your position OP and I feel the same way to some extent.
I really, really hope at some point Anet releases not just more weapon options but more skills per weapon and lets us choose our first 5 abilities for a specific weapon.
More like GW1.
It is rather limited now, and I seem to only really, really like 1-2 abilities per weapon or weapon set.
I do end up pushing all 10 in a big fight, but even the Elite skills just don't have that same... Umph to me as some of the uber-high level abilities in other MMOs you get.
Like I was recently reading some WoW:MoP stuff and saw the Elemental Shaman ability for level 89 I think - transform into some kind of lava elemental and get something called "Lava Beam"?
I was like... damn I want that.
One problem with that though, Spock, is the potential for pigeon-holing of players again. If you could pick and choose weapon skills there would be some that, for example, only choose healy skills for their staff, or only direct damage skills on their sword. Others may find themselves "required" to take all the control skills they can, or all the mitigation skills they can. The way it is now helps considerably to keep the balance between the professions and minimize the effectiveness of people trying to settle into the archaic "role" system.
I can understand your position OP and I feel the same way to some extent.
I really, really hope at some point Anet releases not just more weapon options but more skills per weapon and lets us choose our first 5 abilities for a specific weapon.
More like GW1.
It is rather limited now, and I seem to only really, really like 1-2 abilities per weapon or weapon set.
I do end up pushing all 10 in a big fight, but even the Elite skills just don't have that same... Umph to me as some of the uber-high level abilities in other MMOs you get.
Like I was recently reading some WoW:MoP stuff and saw the Elemental Shaman ability for level 89 I think - transform into some kind of lava elemental and get something called "Lava Beam"?
I was like... damn I want that.
One problem with that though, Spock, is the potential for pigeon-holing of players again. If you could pick and choose weapon skills there would be some that, for example, only choose healy skills for their staff, or only direct damage skills on their sword. Others may find themselves "required" to take all the control skills they can, or all the mitigation skills they can. The way it is now helps considerably to keep the balance between the professions and minimize the effectiveness of people trying to settle into the archaic "role" system.
Yeah.. I know.
Kind of interesting - wonder how much Anet screwed or maybe not screwed themselves with this approach?
Yet to me seen. Many here know I'm a big GW2 fan - but the OP's beef is my biggest beef w/ the game too.
I'm not sure if I'm going to get bored of the skills in 80 levels and beyond. Also right now, seems (for Warrior/Guardian at least) that Signets > All and I find myself never having to/wanting to press them.
As a Necro, by level 40, I had every skill learned, except Lich Form. Maybe I skipped 2 or 3 because they seemed completely pointless and plenty that I learned are rarely used anyway. The cool down along with all the other high lvl elites is minutes, so its not like you get much use of them. And its not like every elite is even worthwhile anyway, at least on the Necro. Although since I get everything anytime I want in PvP, progression is a little whacked. So I'm looking forward to gaining 1 elite for PvE that I get to use every few minutes? And unless the game gets significanttly harder than the early 40s, I barely have use for those final elite skills anyway, unless I'm just playing around. Might make use of them in dungeons more I hope.
As a comparison to WOW, lets be honest here. There is no comparison yet. I'll have to go back to 04-05 when I played seriously, but I had far more abilities at my disposal as a Shaman with no limitations on usage. Far more spells and all the skill trees were useful right from the begining. On my Necro, there are trees that are mostly useless right now.
It also took me 5 months to get to 60 in WOW and I played EVERY night plus entire weekends back then. I'm over 1/2 way there in GW now and I only play a couple hrs a night if I'm lucky.
The most instant problem I noticed in GW2 was a major lack of abilities, or at least the limitation of having all of them at your disposal anytime you wanted like most other MMOs. Let me preface all this and say I'm having a LOT of fun. But to deny these issues is like sticking your head in the sand.
I haven't seen MOP talent tree yet but i can only compare skill progression of GW2 to GW1. This was the first thing i noticed during beta and never liked it. Once you play GW1 and look at the amount of skills avilable to you it is very very hard to like GW2 skill system. I still play GW1 and the ability to come up withso many variation in builds is what kept me hooked for 5 years. There is no such hook in GW2.
I miss hunting elite mobs for elite skills ;(
Om nom nom 1300 skills.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
As a Necro, by level 40, I had every skill learned, except Lich Form. Maybe I skipped 2 or 3 because they seemed completely pointless and plenty that I learned are rarely used anyway. The cool down along with all the other high lvl elites is minutes, so its not like you get much use of them. And its not like every elite is even worthwhile anyway, at least on the Necro. Although since I get everything anytime I want in PvP, progression is a little whacked. So I'm looking forward to gaining 1 elite for PvE that I get to use every few minutes? And unless the game gets significanttly harder than the early 40s, I barely have use for those final elite skills anyway, unless I'm just playing around. Might make use of them in dungeons more I hope.
As a comparison to WOW, lets be honest here. There is no comparison yet. I'll have to go back to 04-05 when I played seriously, but I had far more abilities at my disposal as a Shaman with no limitations on usage. Far more spells and all the skill trees were useful right from the begining. On my Necro, there are trees that are mostly useless right now.
It also took me 5 months to get to 60 in WOW and I played EVERY night plus entire weekends back then. I'm over 1/2 way there in GW now and I only play a couple hrs a night if I'm lucky.
The most instant problem I noticed in GW2 was a major lack of abilities, or at least the limitation of having all of them at your disposal anytime you wanted like most other MMOs. Let me preface all this and say I'm having a LOT of fun. But to deny these issues is like sticking your head in the sand.
Wow this is as if I was writing it
I agree completely (even with the night playing - getting to 1/2 of the way lol)
Green part sums it up nicely
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
I can understand your position OP and I feel the same way to some extent.
I really, really hope at some point Anet releases not just more weapon options but more skills per weapon and lets us choose our first 5 abilities for a specific weapon.
More like GW1.
It is rather limited now, and I seem to only really, really like 1-2 abilities per weapon or weapon set.
I do end up pushing all 10 in a big fight, but even the Elite skills just don't have that same... Umph to me as some of the uber-high level abilities in other MMOs you get.
Like I was recently reading some WoW:MoP stuff and saw the Elemental Shaman ability for level 89 I think - transform into some kind of lava elemental and get something called "Lava Beam"?
I was like... damn I want that.
One problem with that though, Spock, is the potential for pigeon-holing of players again. If you could pick and choose weapon skills there would be some that, for example, only choose healy skills for their staff, or only direct damage skills on their sword. Others may find themselves "required" to take all the control skills they can, or all the mitigation skills they can. The way it is now helps considerably to keep the balance between the professions and minimize the effectiveness of people trying to settle into the archaic "role" system.
Yeah.. I know.
Kind of interesting - wonder how much Anet screwed or maybe not screwed themselves with this approach?
Yet to me seen. Many here know I'm a big GW2 fan - but the OP's beef is my biggest beef w/ the game too.
I'm not sure if I'm going to get bored of the skills in 80 levels and beyond. Also right now, seems (for Warrior/Guardian at least) that Signets > All and I find myself never having to/wanting to press them.
To be fair if I'm going to choose "Staff" on my Guardian I WANT nothing but "healy skills" to make the most efficient use of all 5 skill slots. Right now, Only like one skill on Guardian Staff or Necro Staff is worthwhile to use. The rest of the time the other abilities go completely unused as they simply are worthless in my eyes.
The object here isn't to "pigeon hole" by giving more choice, but to simply give people options.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I agree. I chose greatswords mainly because of the attacks it has. Locking skills to weapon type and limiting them to so few is a bad design in my opinion. There needs to be more variety and the ability to unlock additional ones, or at least choose buffs for them ala D3.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins I agree. I chose greatswords mainly because of the attacks it has. Locking skills to weapon type and limiting them to so few is a bad design in my opinion. There needs to be more variety and the ability to unlock additional ones, or at least choose buffs for them ala D3.
Technically you can/do choose buffs for them via traits, but I still agree.
Most limiting part of the game right now.
Which is so odd to me as GW1 was like building a Magic deck.
Aggressive expansion/updates is the solution.
Keep the content interesting and fresh enough for me not to notice or care I am really using the same 10 abilities over and over and over.
One problem with that though, Spock, is the potential for pigeon-holing of players again. If you could pick and choose weapon skills there would be some that, for example, only choose healy skills for their staff, or only direct damage skills on their sword. Others may find themselves "required" to take all the control skills they can, or all the mitigation skills they can. The way it is now helps considerably to keep the balance between the professions and minimize the effectiveness of people trying to settle into the archaic "role" system.
Yeah.. I know.
Kind of interesting - wonder how much Anet screwed or maybe not screwed themselves with this approach?
Yet to me seen. Many here know I'm a big GW2 fan - but the OP's beef is my biggest beef w/ the game too.
I'm not sure if I'm going to get bored of the skills in 80 levels and beyond. Also right now, seems (for Warrior/Guardian at least) that Signets > All and I find myself never having to/wanting to press them.
To be fair if I'm going to choose "Staff" on my Guardian I WANT nothing but "healy skills" to make the most efficient use of all 5 skill slots. Right now, Only like one skill on Guardian Staff or Necro Staff is worthwhile to use. The rest of the time the other abilities go completely unused as they simply are worthless in my eyes.
The object here isn't to "pigeon hole" by giving more choice, but to simply give people options.
So basically you want to gut the whole concept of GW2 and go back to required roles again. Because that's what would happen. What you consider efficient use of those slots, ArenaNet doesn't for this very reason. You're not meant to carry all healy skills. You're meant to be versatile and self sufficient, capable alone yet better with others. I think it's pretty clear that this won't be happening however, so it's silly to argue it.
Clearly. My real question is, why is this progression such a big deal to you people? Is it really changing your enjoyment of the game? I really don't get what it is that's being said, sorry, but I'm the person that dinged 80 thinking he was dinging 79, that's how hard I look at the levels.
Is it stopping me from playing? nope. But does it make me go 'meh' every now and then? yes. But since i have always been more of an explorer kind i am dealing with it as tme passes by.
Maybe if i never played GW1 i wouldn't even feel that GW2 skills are very limited and controlled for players by Anet. It is like they took 3 steps backward in skill system and 2 steps ahead in everything else.
My post on the 2nd page of this thread...says that exact same thing. For people who played GW1 (either seriously, or casual) most of us will find the SKILL system (passive/actives/weapon) VERY limiting and restricted.
You can be the biggest fan of GW2 in the world, but you have to admit that GW1 at launch had more "options" as far as skills and what you as the player were going to do. Yes this allowed for poeple to make builds that can't punch their way out of paper bag, but it did give you the feel of some control, which I feel like I have none in GW2.
GW1 I couldn't log out of...GW2 ...I can't seem to want to log in to.
I was concerned about this at first. Almost didn't get the game because of it, but group play is at a level in GW2 that no other MMO can match. It seems like it would be a simple system but it is not. You have to time it right to use your skills and talents to be the most effective in a group. At 80 it just gets even harder to kill alive and moving on. You have to be quick and fast to know what you need to do when.
Comments
If you want the build variation that GW1 had I hear playing ele is a hassle with managing skills since every time you attune your build changes maybe they'll make more classes like it?
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
or just add more utilities to existing classes;)
Bite Me
Actually, it's more than that. It's another target for the bad guys to worry about. It's taking damage that would have otherwise been meant for you. As such, it makes you last longer in the fight, it adds some damage to the enemy and it adds a layer of confusion with additional minions on the map.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Sir repeats alot strikes again. Pretty sure I just pointed that out...
Ele isn't really that much of a hassle. The only difference is that instead of swapping weapons in combat you swap attunements. Since there are four attunements you have 20 weapon skills to use in a fight across the 4 attunements instead of having 10 weapon skills across two weapons for other classes. I would say that it is more complex than other classes but still not as complex as other MMOs.
I was always loking forward to unlock minor and major traits and hitting level 40 and level 60 to get newer and more powerful traits.
Changing traits clearly change the way you play even with the same weapon set - once I got the trait to make shouts heal and defy pain at under 25%, I was in the face of mobs much longer. Or I can change my spec and just spam burst skills all day long and become a killing machine.
It is fun all the talk about TSW skill wheel when half of those skills are passive skills and in fact there are a ton of weeksauce skills - just go say that some area is hard in TSW forums and they will point you should get better skills/build.
And if people never heard complains about skill balance problems in GW1 you must have been working hard to avoid hearing them or just not playing.
And hunting bosses to cap skills is not really fun when the damn elite that is actually good is at the end of the campaign.
And considering many elites are useless even after being buffed...
I, for once, I'm really happy that when i enter a dungeon I wont have to worry if that silly monk is bringing ressurect or that idiot warrior is using healing breeze.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Adiaris:
I am going to illustrate our exchanges to demonstrate how you are coming off to me:
Assumption 1:
in any MMO you spend most of your play time at max level not getting new skills either.
This also. As I said, I really don't get this argument. I guess it has omething to do with it "makign it easier to level by looking forward to something" but if I felt that way... I'd just not play the game? Getting a new skill ever x levels is not going to make me like the game more or less. And as you say, what then at max level?
Reason: I don’t typically play at max level. Usually the whole progression/journey to max is the game for me. So this statement above you are agreeing with and expanding upon is an assumption on your part.
Assumption 2:
“But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds.”
Reason: One thing can make or break a game for a lot of people. Changing the skill progression will change the outlook of the game for me and it will most certainly last more than 5 seconds. Your belief othwerwise is an assumption on your part.
Attack 1:
Did i type *OMG YOU SUX YOU IIHD)PADUU" No. I'm trying to understand what it is that you enjoy so much of a weak mechanic that is there just to act as a carrot instead of enjoying the gameplay.
Reason: Calling skill progression (which I consider a fundamental core of an RPG to be a “weak mechanic that is there just to act as a carrot instead of enjoying the gameplay” is a very opiniated statement. You could have used words like:
“I don’t understand what it is you enjoy about that feature” instead of adding a very negative and opinionated view before hand.
Attack #2:
Also "making a conclusion based on inaccurate assumptions" seems to be your life motto.
Reason: See assumption #1 made by you. I pointed this out. In return you attacked me with the above statement.
Attack #3:
Because you use words without knowing what they mean (or maybe how to use them - such as defensive). I reserve telling peeps to respect other people's tastes when they're flaming and such, not when they are simply trying to understand what the deal is.
I read it, and what I get is "I need it to level, it helps me get to the end." If that's the case, ok then, got it.
Different strokes for different folks.
Reason: Passive/Aggressive stance here. Blatantly stating I don’t understand the definitions to words or the way in which they should be used is a verbal attack.
Final comment by you:
Reread your posts, unless it's someone else typing them for you you should be able to figure it out.
Blocking you btw, there's no point carrying on a conversation with someone that insists on reading things that aren't there and then proceeds to ignore replies in favour of picking on something else.
My thoughts: Ok, I don’t understand how you came to this, but I think it is you that may need to learn some proper manners and reflect a bit on what you type before you type it. I don't see how I was being disrepectful at all and I think I need to express how you are making me feel attacked.
Bingo. I do tend to agree that the weapons skills may be a little lacking in variety, but it makes total sense what you've been saying. It seems they've decided to use a litle realism in how weapons function in relation to skills in this game. For instance, there are only so many ways to use a sword, but within each sword skill are many subtleties. Those subtleties come out in the trait system, if I'm understanding correctly. Maybe that's where the problem is: Subtlety. We're so used to having flashy new skills shoved in our faces that we miss the more subtle things.
I can't say for sure that this is what they were trying to do, but it sounds right to me.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
I miss DAoC
Which bums me out that elementalists don't get weapon swap. I know you can just change elements, but it's just a pain to have to swap from inventory to go from a staff's long range abilities to the shorter range ones in a DD build.
If they had given Elementalists weapon swap, but only out of combat, that would make me happy.
Jeeez people read what I wrote...so many missleading posts
Yes you can have almost every utility IF YOU GRIND CHALLENGES (except elites) by lvl 40
I NEVER IGNORED traits, I said they're PASSIVE ENHANCEMENTS which is not very entertaining, as someone wrote, it's basically only min/maxing your character
When I hit lvl 70, or 80 I want to receive some ultimate mindblowing ability to feel like an experienced veteran of world of Tyria, this is what RPGs are basicaly about IMO
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
I can understand your position OP and I feel the same way to some extent.
I really, really hope at some point Anet releases not just more weapon options but more skills per weapon and lets us choose our first 5 abilities for a specific weapon.
More like GW1.
It is rather limited now, and I seem to only really, really like 1-2 abilities per weapon or weapon set.
I do end up pushing all 10 in a big fight, but even the Elite skills just don't have that same... Umph to me as some of the uber-high level abilities in other MMOs you get.
Like I was recently reading some WoW:MoP stuff and saw the Elemental Shaman ability for level 89 I think - transform into some kind of lava elemental and get something called "Lava Beam"?
I was like... damn I want that.
Ooh, naughty naughty boy. Exempting elites now to fudge the numbers. That's at least 100 points of skills you're ignoring now.
And no, traits are not purely passive enhancements. They actively change how skills work (mesmer shatters, for example) which changes how you actively use them. Before I put focus on clone traits, for example, it seemed like a good idea to keep a couple phantasms up and one clone for regular replacement. But, now that my clones do so much more due to traits, I'm popping them little mini-mes like popcorn. Many are passive, yes. Many, however, directly change your active play.
Oderint, dum metuant.
One problem with that though, Spock, is the potential for pigeon-holing of players again. If you could pick and choose weapon skills there would be some that, for example, only choose healy skills for their staff, or only direct damage skills on their sword. Others may find themselves "required" to take all the control skills they can, or all the mitigation skills they can. The way it is now helps considerably to keep the balance between the professions and minimize the effectiveness of people trying to settle into the archaic "role" system.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yeah.. I know.
Kind of interesting - wonder how much Anet screwed or maybe not screwed themselves with this approach?
Yet to me seen. Many here know I'm a big GW2 fan - but the OP's beef is my biggest beef w/ the game too.
I'm not sure if I'm going to get bored of the skills in 80 levels and beyond. Also right now, seems (for Warrior/Guardian at least) that Signets > All and I find myself never having to/wanting to press them.
As a Necro, by level 40, I had every skill learned, except Lich Form. Maybe I skipped 2 or 3 because they seemed completely pointless and plenty that I learned are rarely used anyway. The cool down along with all the other high lvl elites is minutes, so its not like you get much use of them. And its not like every elite is even worthwhile anyway, at least on the Necro. Although since I get everything anytime I want in PvP, progression is a little whacked. So I'm looking forward to gaining 1 elite for PvE that I get to use every few minutes? And unless the game gets significanttly harder than the early 40s, I barely have use for those final elite skills anyway, unless I'm just playing around. Might make use of them in dungeons more I hope.
As a comparison to WOW, lets be honest here. There is no comparison yet. I'll have to go back to 04-05 when I played seriously, but I had far more abilities at my disposal as a Shaman with no limitations on usage. Far more spells and all the skill trees were useful right from the begining. On my Necro, there are trees that are mostly useless right now.
It also took me 5 months to get to 60 in WOW and I played EVERY night plus entire weekends back then. I'm over 1/2 way there in GW now and I only play a couple hrs a night if I'm lucky.
The most instant problem I noticed in GW2 was a major lack of abilities, or at least the limitation of having all of them at your disposal anytime you wanted like most other MMOs. Let me preface all this and say I'm having a LOT of fun. But to deny these issues is like sticking your head in the sand.
Om nom nom 1300 skills.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Wow this is as if I was writing it
I agree completely (even with the night playing - getting to 1/2 of the way lol)
Green part sums it up nicely
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
To be fair if I'm going to choose "Staff" on my Guardian I WANT nothing but "healy skills" to make the most efficient use of all 5 skill slots. Right now, Only like one skill on Guardian Staff or Necro Staff is worthwhile to use. The rest of the time the other abilities go completely unused as they simply are worthless in my eyes.
The object here isn't to "pigeon hole" by giving more choice, but to simply give people options.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Technically you can/do choose buffs for them via traits, but I still agree.
Most limiting part of the game right now.
Which is so odd to me as GW1 was like building a Magic deck.
Aggressive expansion/updates is the solution.
Keep the content interesting and fresh enough for me not to notice or care I am really using the same 10 abilities over and over and over.
So basically you want to gut the whole concept of GW2 and go back to required roles again. Because that's what would happen. What you consider efficient use of those slots, ArenaNet doesn't for this very reason. You're not meant to carry all healy skills. You're meant to be versatile and self sufficient, capable alone yet better with others. I think it's pretty clear that this won't be happening however, so it's silly to argue it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
My post on the 2nd page of this thread...says that exact same thing. For people who played GW1 (either seriously, or casual) most of us will find the SKILL system (passive/actives/weapon) VERY limiting and restricted.
You can be the biggest fan of GW2 in the world, but you have to admit that GW1 at launch had more "options" as far as skills and what you as the player were going to do. Yes this allowed for poeple to make builds that can't punch their way out of paper bag, but it did give you the feel of some control, which I feel like I have none in GW2.
GW1 I couldn't log out of...GW2 ...I can't seem to want to log in to.
2 steps forward, 3 very large steps backwards.
I hate stupid people.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.