Loved the game too but if your into PvE there just isn't anything to do. I'll check it out again in a few years or if they decide to release an expansion with a new class. That and the rigid weapon skill system really was horrible for me. The game would of been amazing if you were allowed a choice in slotting your weapon skills like you can with utility skills.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I got 4 months out of GW2 and came home from work one day and thought, I don't feel like playing. In 12 years of MMO's that's never been a reason for me, I just didn't want to login. After much thought as to why I felt much of the same, the game lacks roles when everyone can do everything. At no point in the game in PvE or PvP did I feel like I did something that was amazing or made a difference. In other MMO's I can PvP and play a stealth class to sneak nodes or play a healer and keep my team alive, these are things I enjoy about MMO's and I never got it with GW2. I guess a sense of accomplishment is something I need in an MMO, GW2 lacks it at least it did for me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the time I played and it's well done but I can see why people just up and leave.
Originally posted by Shatter30 I got 4 months out of GW2 and came home from work one day and thought, I don't feel like playing. In 12 years of MMO's that's never been a reason for me, I just didn't want to login. After much thought as to why I felt much of the same, the game lacks roles when everyone can do everything. At no point in the game in PvE or PvP did I feel like I did something that was amazing or made a difference. In other MMO's I can PvP and play a stealth class to sneak nodes or play a healer and keep my team alive, these are things I enjoy about MMO's and I never got it with GW2. I guess a sense of accomplishment is something I need in an MMO, GW2 lacks it at least it did for me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the time I played and it's well done but I can see why people just up and leave.
Good, I'm glad you left, no disrespect intended. Having some damnable thief in WvW sneak up on my mesmer and proceed to make me go dead... popping in and out of stealth, man, that's annoying. One less thief (or potential thief) is a good thing.
Funny thing with the "roles" argument... in WvW they wouldn't mean crap anyhow. Sure, you have people that go heavy PVT bunker builds, others that go full berserkers or carrion and give up a some survival ability, but a dedicated tank or healer style role? You'd be useless. A full on healer would get decimated right away and a tank would be ignored until the end. Having your choice of a mix of damage, control and support in WvW is far superior than being pigeon-holed into an archaic role system where roles don't make sense regardless.
The only difference is that I wanted to play a healing/support class so I tried Guardian and it was just an epic fail. I wanted to take care of my teammates, but it really wasn't much help since they don't actually need me. Once Guardian failed I bounce out of the game.
Guardian is the best support profession in the game and pretty much the only class one often require in difficult dungeons. You just have to learn to use the right abilities at the right time. A well-placed AoE Aegis alone can be of great help.
This is what happens when devs try to appease the masses, and why I'm lingering from game to game waiting for FFXIV: ARR.
That is a rather strange example, when XIV is designed like a familiar mainstream MMO, and (finally) getting deserved praise for it, whereas GW2 is breaking with a lot of mainstream MMO conventions (like no holy trinity) and seeing plenty of people avoiding it for that reason.
This is what happens when devs try to appease the masses, and why I'm lingering from game to game waiting for FFXIV: ARR.
That is a rather strange example, when XIV is designed like a familiar mainstream MMO, and (finally) getting deserved praise for it, whereas GW2 is breaking with a lot of mainstream MMO conventions (like no holy trinity) and seeing plenty of people avoiding it for that reason.
I consider it a funny irony. Before GW2 launched, numerous people here and basically all over every other games message board were clamoring for a removal of the "trinity", of the old classic MMO role concept (which, btw., used to be 4 roles. Crowd Control was removed later as an additional role).
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
And almost the same goes for the lack of vertical progression. IMO GW2 and its reception reinforces the WOW school of design: vertical chasing the carrot trumps horizontal progression for the VAST majority of gamers, and fixed roles and stale gameplay is, while not loved as much anymore, still preferred to even a solidly crafted alternative.
Because you may dislike or hate GW2 however much you want, its a well-made, large and coherently built MMORPG, with no obvious failures or horribly performance and whatnot.
People just really didnt want to play what they cried for so long.
This is what happens when devs try to appease the masses, and why I'm lingering from game to game waiting for FFXIV: ARR.
That is a rather strange example, when XIV is designed like a familiar mainstream MMO, and (finally) getting deserved praise for it, whereas GW2 is breaking with a lot of mainstream MMO conventions (like no holy trinity) and seeing plenty of people avoiding it for that reason.
I consider it a funny irony. Before GW2 launched, numerous people here and basically all over every other games message board were clamoring for a removal of the "trinity", of the old classic MMO role concept (which, btw., used to be 4 roles. Crowd Control was removed later as an additional role).
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
And almost the same goes for the lack of vertical progression. IMO GW2 and its reception reinforces the WOW school of design: vertical chasing the carrot trumps horizontal progression for the VAST majority of gamers, and fixed roles and stale gameplay is, while not loved as much anymore, still preferred to even a solidly crafted alternative.
Because you may dislike or hate GW2 however much you want, its a well-made, large and coherently built MMORPG, with no obvious failures or horribly performance and whatnot.
People just really didnt want to play what they cried for so long.
In my opinion, and I really enjoyed GW2, is that while people scream for something new and different, once you get it and see it you realize that nothing really beats a good ole fashioned trinity system. Encounters can be more engaging, a community develops because you have to depend on one another, multiple strategies can be developed to deal with certain situation. There is a reason it is called the Holy Trinity, I was one of those that thought I wanted something different, after playing GW2 for the last 7 or 8 months I can say I am ready to move back into a Trinity game. The good thing is, there isn't a sub for GW2, so if I get the itch to play again I can easily log on and run CoF for the 100000000000000000000 time
I consider it a funny irony. Before GW2 launched, numerous people here and basically all over every other games message board were clamoring for a removal of the "trinity", of the old classic MMO role concept (which, btw., used to be 4 roles. Crowd Control was removed later as an additional role).
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
And almost the same goes for the lack of vertical progression. IMO GW2 and its reception reinforces the WOW school of design: vertical chasing the carrot trumps horizontal progression for the VAST majority of gamers, and fixed roles and stale gameplay is, while not loved as much anymore, still preferred to even a solidly crafted alternative.
Because you may dislike or hate GW2 however much you want, its a well-made, large and coherently built MMORPG, with no obvious failures or horribly performance and whatnot.
People just really didnt want to play what they cried for so long.
You make it sound as though no one's playing GW2 anymore. They recently increased the max capacity of the servers and are claiming a steady increase in users. There are plenty of people that like what they've done, a lot. Of course not everyone will, but this game is thriving and growing right now, nowhere close to barren or dying.
I consider it a funny irony. Before GW2 launched, numerous people here and basically all over every other games message board were clamoring for a removal of the "trinity", of the old classic MMO role concept (which, btw., used to be 4 roles. Crowd Control was removed later as an additional role).
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
And almost the same goes for the lack of vertical progression. IMO GW2 and its reception reinforces the WOW school of design: vertical chasing the carrot trumps horizontal progression for the VAST majority of gamers, and fixed roles and stale gameplay is, while not loved as much anymore, still preferred to even a solidly crafted alternative.
Because you may dislike or hate GW2 however much you want, its a well-made, large and coherently built MMORPG, with no obvious failures or horribly performance and whatnot.
People just really didnt want to play what they cried for so long.
You make it sound as though no one's playing GW2 anymore. They recently increased the max capacity of the servers and are claiming a steady increase in users. There are plenty of people that like what they've done, a lot. Of course not everyone will, but this game is thriving and growing right now, nowhere close to barren or dying.
Didn't they do this because GW2 has developed the WoW syndrome when it comes to servers? Everyone is transferring to the top tier WvW servers and the bottom feeders are waste lands? In other words, to get the money from transfers they had to increase the server capacity to allow more people on the top tier servers.
I consider it a funny irony. Before GW2 launched, numerous people here and basically all over every other games message board were clamoring for a removal of the "trinity", of the old classic MMO role concept (which, btw., used to be 4 roles. Crowd Control was removed later as an additional role).
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
And almost the same goes for the lack of vertical progression. IMO GW2 and its reception reinforces the WOW school of design: vertical chasing the carrot trumps horizontal progression for the VAST majority of gamers, and fixed roles and stale gameplay is, while not loved as much anymore, still preferred to even a solidly crafted alternative.
Because you may dislike or hate GW2 however much you want, its a well-made, large and coherently built MMORPG, with no obvious failures or horribly performance and whatnot.
People just really didnt want to play what they cried for so long.
You make it sound as though no one's playing GW2 anymore. They recently increased the max capacity of the servers and are claiming a steady increase in users. There are plenty of people that like what they've done, a lot. Of course not everyone will, but this game is thriving and growing right now, nowhere close to barren or dying.
Didn't they do this because GW2 has developed the WoW syndrome when it comes to servers? Everyone is transferring to the top tier WvW servers and the bottom feeders are waste lands? In other words, to get the money from transfers they had to increase the server capacity to allow more people on the top tier servers.
The lower tier servers aren't wastelands, they just don't have the dedicated WvW crowds of the highest tiers. There was still a need for space for more as servers were hitting FULL capacity again.
What I'm really looking forwards to is the removal of culling in the PvE side. That'll be the real eye-opener as to what the population looks like. It's weird running through what appears to be a sparcely populated Lions Arch only to stop and suddenly have people pop into view all around me. It's working amazingly in WvW so we know they can do it.
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
This implies the people who were excited about the removal of the trinity are largely the same that are now mourning it. Same deal with vertical vs. horizontal progression.
Not sure where you're pulling the data from to come to such a conclusion. No doubt there are players who didn't have their expectations met, but I'm not seeing anything that makes me assume it's a general trend.
The lack of holy trinity is one of the main reasons I'm still hooked to this game, probably because I'm a logic freak.
Regarding the traditional trinity, think about this: You've got uber intelligent villlains who masterminded uber complex , uber efficient strategy to destroy entire uber powerful races, and they uberly succeeded in doing so. Yet for some uber strange reason, apparently their intelligence is not uber enough to prevent them from keep pounding on uber big piles of meat and metal that do no damage to them, while they ignore the uber squishies that do uber damage to them and healing the uber pile of meat and metal that they keep pounding on. It makes my eyes roll.
The dungeons disappointed me, but I haven't played any since the patches.
You NEED to give Fractals a chance before you dismiss dungeons altogether. Those have some of the most fun and original Dungeon fights I've experienced in a MMO, including the trinity based ones.
Fractals is one of reasons why i quit playing i thought guild wars 2 was about open world pve and dynamic events but when fractals was introduced and people starting to grind that its was over empty worlds and treadmill grind started.
It took me month before i fanally quit but constantly seeing people in lion arch looking for fractals groups and i was alone in almost all out door maps i thought what the hell im doing here, majority don't even understand the game with downscale but still alot fun playing lower lvl maps, i eventually quit.
Almost all world bosses or champions where abandon never been challenge again you all where way to occupied with instance.
That was for me not the GW2 i thought it would be.
The lack of holy trinity is one of the main reasons I'm still hooked to this game, probably because I'm a logic freak.
Regarding the traditional trinity, think about this: You've got uber intelligent villlains who masterminded uber complex , uber efficient strategy to destroy entire uber powerful races, and they uberly succeeded in doing so. Yet for some uber strange reason, apparently their intelligence is not uber enough to prevent them from keep pounding on uber big piles of meat and metal that do no damage to them, while they ignore the uber squishies that do uber damage to them and healing the uber pile of meat and metal that they keep pounding on. It makes my eyes roll.
Well said, that's my opinion about the trinity too. It's a highly non realistic way to deal with MMORPG combat, but very convenient for the developers since it makes encounters so easy to design for them. Trinity = way to go for lazy developers.
Mind you, games with the trinity can be fun, I played WoW for years, but all the time the whole agro/taunt mechanics always felt weird and made even the most fantastic raid opponents looks dumb as a rock.
What the trinity allows for, for good or ill, is a completely scripted encounter. The developers can effectively hard code who's going to do what when during the encounter for it to be successful. The tank must be doing this, at this point in time the tank or off tank must do this, the dps must do this from here and at that point in time they must move there and to this to something else... WoW is the greatest example of this, and they don't even hide it. WoW raids, before they see the light of day, are beta tested by a few of the top guilds in the game. When these guilds go to test them they're given the script and allowed to master the script. When they do, they create "how to" videos for the raid fights in order to teach everyone else the script on the encounter. If you have the right gear and follow the script you will succeed.
Without the trinity you can still have complex mechanics, but you allow for chaos to be a factor as well. Even though at a certain time "X" may happen it's ultimately up to the party and their make-up as to how they deal with it and move on.
Fractals is one of reasons why i quit playing i thought guild wars 2 was about open world pve and dynamic events but when fractals was introduced and people starting to grind that its was over empty worlds and treadmill grind started.
It took me month before i fanally quit but constantly seeing people in lion arch looking for fractals groups and i was alone in almost all out door maps i thought what the hell im doing here, majority don't even understand the game with downscale but still alot fun playing lower lvl maps, i eventually quit.
Almost all world bosses or champions where abandon never been challenge again you all where way to occupied with instance.
That was for me not the GW2 i thought it would be.
You should pop in for a hour or two over the weekend, just to have a look. The player dynamics have changed dramatically since then.
The dungeons disappointed me, but I haven't played any since the patches.
You NEED to give Fractals a chance before you dismiss dungeons altogether. Those have some of the most fun and original Dungeon fights I've experienced in a MMO, including the trinity based ones.
Fractals is one of reasons why i quit playing i thought guild wars 2 was about open world pve and dynamic events but when fractals was introduced and people starting to grind that its was over empty worlds and treadmill grind started.
It took me month before i fanally quit but constantly seeing people in lion arch looking for fractals groups and i was alone in almost all out door maps i thought what the hell im doing here, majority don't even understand the game with downscale but still alot fun playing lower lvl maps, i eventually quit.
Almost all world bosses or champions where abandon never been challenge again you all where way to occupied with instance.
That was for me not the GW2 i thought it would be.
Here's where a lot of people screwed up, not just you. Fractals never started a treadmill grind. Yes, you can get ascended rings in there, but the design is such that the rings don't represent a significant increase as you'd find with a treadmill based progression system. The only reason you would "need" ascended rings is to get agony resistance in order to go deeper into the Fractals levels. The stat increase is so marginal that in, for example, WvW you can't tell who has them and who doesn't.
From the sounds of it you must have quit quite a long time ago as well. If you want ascended gear you can get it, including rings, simply by doing dailies. No need to step into Fractals at all.
He complains all the other people are endlessly running fractals leaving the world empty.
A bit over to the top imo but he has a point.
Confusing Fractals with a treadmill grind is what I'm talking about. The rest about the world being empty and all that is factually incorrect as well, but thinking there's a treadmill grind based on Fractals is where a lot of people screwed up.
No, you aren't nuts. Pretty much why I stopped playing GW2, the emptiness. After GW2 I deleted all my MMO games actually. None of them live up to what I'm looking for in a game.
And 800 hours, wow. Imagine what you could have done for your life with 800 hours. That's sooo much wasted time on pixelated nothingness that could have been spent doing all kinds of productive stuff that would have made you feel much happier and content.
He complains all the other people are endlessly running fractals leaving the world empty.
A bit over to the top imo but he has a point.
Confusing Fractals with a treadmill grind is what I'm talking about. The rest about the world being empty and all that is factually incorrect as well, but thinking there's a treadmill grind based on Fractals is where a lot of people screwed up.
That depends on the server. Some of the servers it is true. There are some really barren ones......
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Comments
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Good, I'm glad you left, no disrespect intended. Having some damnable thief in WvW sneak up on my mesmer and proceed to make me go dead... popping in and out of stealth, man, that's annoying. One less thief (or potential thief) is a good thing.
Funny thing with the "roles" argument... in WvW they wouldn't mean crap anyhow. Sure, you have people that go heavy PVT bunker builds, others that go full berserkers or carrion and give up a some survival ability, but a dedicated tank or healer style role? You'd be useless. A full on healer would get decimated right away and a tank would be ignored until the end. Having your choice of a mix of damage, control and support in WvW is far superior than being pigeon-holed into an archaic role system where roles don't make sense regardless.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Guardian is the best support profession in the game and pretty much the only class one often require in difficult dungeons. You just have to learn to use the right abilities at the right time. A well-placed AoE Aegis alone can be of great help.
That is a rather strange example, when XIV is designed like a familiar mainstream MMO, and (finally) getting deserved praise for it, whereas GW2 is breaking with a lot of mainstream MMO conventions (like no holy trinity) and seeing plenty of people avoiding it for that reason.
I consider it a funny irony. Before GW2 launched, numerous people here and basically all over every other games message board were clamoring for a removal of the "trinity", of the old classic MMO role concept (which, btw., used to be 4 roles. Crowd Control was removed later as an additional role).
GW2 showed people that a very skillfully crafted, solid MMO with plenty of good (and , admittedly, bad) features and content, but that largely removed or obscured the trinity, is not the fun they expected it to be.
And almost the same goes for the lack of vertical progression. IMO GW2 and its reception reinforces the WOW school of design: vertical chasing the carrot trumps horizontal progression for the VAST majority of gamers, and fixed roles and stale gameplay is, while not loved as much anymore, still preferred to even a solidly crafted alternative.
Because you may dislike or hate GW2 however much you want, its a well-made, large and coherently built MMORPG, with no obvious failures or horribly performance and whatnot.
People just really didnt want to play what they cried for so long.
In my opinion, and I really enjoyed GW2, is that while people scream for something new and different, once you get it and see it you realize that nothing really beats a good ole fashioned trinity system. Encounters can be more engaging, a community develops because you have to depend on one another, multiple strategies can be developed to deal with certain situation. There is a reason it is called the Holy Trinity, I was one of those that thought I wanted something different, after playing GW2 for the last 7 or 8 months I can say I am ready to move back into a Trinity game. The good thing is, there isn't a sub for GW2, so if I get the itch to play again I can easily log on and run CoF for the 100000000000000000000 time
You make it sound as though no one's playing GW2 anymore. They recently increased the max capacity of the servers and are claiming a steady increase in users. There are plenty of people that like what they've done, a lot. Of course not everyone will, but this game is thriving and growing right now, nowhere close to barren or dying.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Didn't they do this because GW2 has developed the WoW syndrome when it comes to servers? Everyone is transferring to the top tier WvW servers and the bottom feeders are waste lands? In other words, to get the money from transfers they had to increase the server capacity to allow more people on the top tier servers.
The lower tier servers aren't wastelands, they just don't have the dedicated WvW crowds of the highest tiers. There was still a need for space for more as servers were hitting FULL capacity again.
What I'm really looking forwards to is the removal of culling in the PvE side. That'll be the real eye-opener as to what the population looks like. It's weird running through what appears to be a sparcely populated Lions Arch only to stop and suddenly have people pop into view all around me. It's working amazingly in WvW so we know they can do it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
This implies the people who were excited about the removal of the trinity are largely the same that are now mourning it. Same deal with vertical vs. horizontal progression.
Not sure where you're pulling the data from to come to such a conclusion. No doubt there are players who didn't have their expectations met, but I'm not seeing anything that makes me assume it's a general trend.
The lack of holy trinity is one of the main reasons I'm still hooked to this game, probably because I'm a logic freak.
Regarding the traditional trinity, think about this: You've got uber intelligent villlains who masterminded uber complex , uber efficient strategy to destroy entire uber powerful races, and they uberly succeeded in doing so. Yet for some uber strange reason, apparently their intelligence is not uber enough to prevent them from keep pounding on uber big piles of meat and metal that do no damage to them, while they ignore the uber squishies that do uber damage to them and healing the uber pile of meat and metal that they keep pounding on. It makes my eyes roll.
Fractals is one of reasons why i quit playing i thought guild wars 2 was about open world pve and dynamic events but when fractals was introduced and people starting to grind that its was over empty worlds and treadmill grind started.
It took me month before i fanally quit but constantly seeing people in lion arch looking for fractals groups and i was alone in almost all out door maps i thought what the hell im doing here, majority don't even understand the game with downscale but still alot fun playing lower lvl maps, i eventually quit.
Almost all world bosses or champions where abandon never been challenge again you all where way to occupied with instance.
That was for me not the GW2 i thought it would be.
What the trinity allows for, for good or ill, is a completely scripted encounter. The developers can effectively hard code who's going to do what when during the encounter for it to be successful. The tank must be doing this, at this point in time the tank or off tank must do this, the dps must do this from here and at that point in time they must move there and to this to something else... WoW is the greatest example of this, and they don't even hide it. WoW raids, before they see the light of day, are beta tested by a few of the top guilds in the game. When these guilds go to test them they're given the script and allowed to master the script. When they do, they create "how to" videos for the raid fights in order to teach everyone else the script on the encounter. If you have the right gear and follow the script you will succeed.
Without the trinity you can still have complex mechanics, but you allow for chaos to be a factor as well. Even though at a certain time "X" may happen it's ultimately up to the party and their make-up as to how they deal with it and move on.
Oderint, dum metuant.
You should pop in for a hour or two over the weekend, just to have a look. The player dynamics have changed dramatically since then.
Here's where a lot of people screwed up, not just you. Fractals never started a treadmill grind. Yes, you can get ascended rings in there, but the design is such that the rings don't represent a significant increase as you'd find with a treadmill based progression system. The only reason you would "need" ascended rings is to get agony resistance in order to go deeper into the Fractals levels. The stat increase is so marginal that in, for example, WvW you can't tell who has them and who doesn't.
From the sounds of it you must have quit quite a long time ago as well. If you want ascended gear you can get it, including rings, simply by doing dailies. No need to step into Fractals at all.
Oderint, dum metuant.
How did he screw up?
Never does he mention wanting xxx-loot.
He complains all the other people are endlessly running fractals leaving the world empty.
A bit over to the top imo but he has a point.
Confusing Fractals with a treadmill grind is what I'm talking about. The rest about the world being empty and all that is factually incorrect as well, but thinking there's a treadmill grind based on Fractals is where a lot of people screwed up.
Oderint, dum metuant.
There are a lot of places which are empty. Some are packed like Lions Arch, Queensdale and a few more.
I mostly play in the mornings which wont be the busiest time.
This morning I played for 2 hours (10 to 12 AM) in Harathi Hinterlands and I have seen 2 people in that time.
Might have been the same one twice lol.
I am not complaining.
Just telling what I see.
No, you aren't nuts. Pretty much why I stopped playing GW2, the emptiness. After GW2 I deleted all my MMO games actually. None of them live up to what I'm looking for in a game.
And 800 hours, wow. Imagine what you could have done for your life with 800 hours. That's sooo much wasted time on pixelated nothingness that could have been spent doing all kinds of productive stuff that would have made you feel much happier and content.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
That depends on the server. Some of the servers it is true. There are some really barren ones......
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?