Yeah right behind a 10+ year old game. Considering the competition it is against, it is nothing to be proud of really. Aion, B&S, Lineage? Remember we are talking about thriving and "growing". Based on those charts itself they lost 73% in sales.
In my estimation due to heavy market competition including from games like WildStar and ESO, GW2 might be forced to go F2P this year. It will hold hands with SWTOR where it belongs.
You said NCSoft had great financial numbers. And I said yes, 80% were from regions GW2 was not sold at. So GW2 can't take sole credit for it. In fact, it was small portion of it.
Yeah right behind a 10+ year old game. Considering the competition it is against, it is nothing to be proud of really. Aion, B&S, Lineage? Remember we are talking about thriving and "growing". Based on those charts itself they lost 73% in sales.
In my estimation due to heavy market competition including from games like WildStar and ESO, GW2 might be forced to go F2P this year. It will hold hands with SWTOR where it belongs.
WoW is 8 years old and it crushes everything else. It just sounds to me like Lineage is a really well respected solid game over there. I don't think that diminishes how successful GW2 has been at all. Honestly, for not having a sub or having released an expansion this quarter, it looks like things are doing great. I'll be curious to see what happens when they open this game up to the various Asian markets.
Again, I put GW2 in the same category as games like SWTOR and FFXIV. Big promises, failed delivery. If that is "failed" so be it. I layed out my argument dozen times. Let me know I can repeat it again.
[mod edit]
Using that argument we can't prove the game is a success or "thriving" either. I will take that.
NCSOFT grew 35 % YoY. Guess which games weren't in their portfolio last year at this time. GW2 generated $200M revenue so far more than covering its costs and generating a good profit.
Financially it is a fact it is a success. SWTOR on the other hand isn't at this time.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I totally stopped trying to enjoy the game 2 monthes after release. Tried a few more classes, but it was all the same : combat mechanics were not deep enough. For mmo vets who don't need handholding anymore, and need more than a dozen of spells to dig a gameplay longer than a month, the game would lack in this department very much.
I tried to highlight the problem I felt on the forums as soon as november 2012, searching for people who would feel the same, but only a few reacted. All others were more focused on how to acquire latest gear, and how their character look more than how did it play differently on each fight.
As time went by, I read more and more people on the forum highlighting that very problem, saying they wanted deeper mechanics, more spells, etc. But it was too late. Players prefered to express their focus on how shiny their toon would look like earlier, so the devs focused on that during all those monthes. Now a lot of people are wondering why they feel bored to death during fights, finding no more reason to play, even when new content keeps coming.
And that's the tipping point of my hopes for the mmo genre.
Masses do not ask themselves the good questions when giving feedback about what is good and what is lacking. They prefer to rely on their instant impression, without digging it a little bit more. So we end with only the surface of the problems, with things like "I want more damage", or "I want a shiny armor", or "give me cool dragons to fight". But never will they ask themselves why they want more content before having beaten up the actual. Because they're bored with how they interact with current content, simply.
And that, nothing will change it until a majority of people doesn't give proper feedback about the way we interact with our toon 80% of the time : the fighting mechanics. How spells interact with each others, how reactions intricate with each others, how you have to use your brain to prepare a string of spells. Right now GW2 does have such a thing, but only a bit. For someone who discovers MMOs, or even videogames, it might be a blast. But for the average gamer (30 years old, remember, so playing mmos for a decade...), so few mechanics is just not enough. It's just an appetizer.
I observed a lot of players giving their feedback on different forums for a lot of MMOs, and the current % of people who actually ask themselves deeper questions than "how can I do the biggest crit", or "where can I have the shiniest armor" ... well, that % is just ridiculously low for me to hope having another high of gameplay interest in the genre any day soon.
____________________
TL;DR : ALL mmos will be boring after 2 monthes as long as most people won't ask themselves the good question : "Will I still have fun with my char after the 1000th fight ?" And you should ask yourself this question right from the start, even before release, by digging spells, their actions, reactions, and mechanics. Then think, min-max, test, etc... and submit your feedback to devs on this subject, more than on how cool is the boss looking, or how much damage you can do in one hit.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I totally stopped trying to enjoy the game 2 monthes after release. Tried a few more classes, but it was all the same : combat mechanics were not deep enough. For mmo vets who don't need handholding anymore, who do need more than a dozen of spells to exploit a gameplay for more than a month, the game would lack in this department very much.
I tried to highlight the problem I felt on the forums, searching for people who would feel the same, but only a few reacted. All others were more focused on how to acquire latest gear, and how their character look more than how did it play differently on each fight.
As time went by, I read more and more people on the forum highlighting that very problem, saying they wanted deeper mechanics, more spells, etc. But it was too late. Players prefered to express their focus on how shiny their toon would look like earlier, so the devs focused on that during all those monthes. Now a lot of people are wondering why they feel bored to death during fights, finding no more reason to play, even when new content keeps coming.
And that's the tipping point of my hopes for the mmo genre.
Masses do not ask themselves the good questions when giving feedback about what is good and what is lacking. They prefer to rely on their instant impression, without digging it a little bit more. So we end with only the surface of the problems, with things like "I want more damage", or "I want a shiny armor", or "give me cool dragons to fight". But never will they ask themselves why they want more content before having beaten up the actual. Because they're bored with how they interact with current content, simply.
And that, nothing will change it until a majority of people doesn't give proper feedback about the way we interact with our toon 80% of the time : the fighting mechanics. How spells interact with each others, how reactions intricate with each others, how you have to use your brain to prepare a string of spells. Right now GW2 does have such a thing, but only a bit. For someone who discovers MMOs, or even videogames, it might be a blast. But for the average gamer (30 years old, remember, so playing mmos for a decade...), so few mechanics is just not enough. It's just an appetizer.
I observed a lot of players giving their feedback on different forums for a lot of MMOs, and the current % of people who actually ask themselves deeper questions than "how can I do the biggest crit", or "where can I have the shiniest armor" ... well, that % is just ridiculously low for me to hope having another high of gameplay interest in the genre any day soon.
____________________
TL;DR : ALL mmos will be boring after 2 monthes as long as most people won't ask themselves the good question : "Will I still have fun with my char after the 1000th fight ?" And you should ask yourself this question right from the start, even before release, by digging spells, their actions, reactions, and mechanics. Then think, min-max, test, etc... and submit your feedback to devs on this subject, more than on how cool is the boss looking, or how much damage you can do in one hit.
SWTOR has some of worst case of skill bloat and it failed miserably.
OTOH, GW2 combat is one of the most fluid and invloved out there.
I totally stopped trying to enjoy the game 2 monthes after release. Tried a few more classes, but it was all the same : combat mechanics were not deep enough. For mmo vets who don't need handholding anymore, and need more than a dozen of spells to dig a gameplay longer than a month, the game would lack in this department very much.
I tried to highlight the problem I felt on the forums as soon as november 2012, searching for people who would feel the same, but only a few reacted. All others were more focused on how to acquire latest gear, and how their character look more than how did it play differently on each fight.
As time went by, I read more and more people on the forum highlighting that very problem, saying they wanted deeper mechanics, more spells, etc. But it was too late. Players prefered to express their focus on how shiny their toon would look like earlier, so the devs focused on that during all those monthes. Now a lot of people are wondering why they feel bored to death during fights, finding no more reason to play, even when new content keeps coming.
And that's the tipping point of my hopes for the mmo genre.
Masses do not ask themselves the good questions when giving feedback about what is good and what is lacking. They prefer to rely on their instant impression, without digging it a little bit more. So we end with only the surface of the problems, with things like "I want more damage", or "I want a shiny armor", or "give me cool dragons to fight". But never will they ask themselves whythey want more content before having beaten up the actual. Because they're bored with how they interact with current content, simply.
And that, nothing will change it until a majority of people doesn't give proper feedback about the way we interact with our toon 80% of the time : the fighting mechanics. How spells interact with each others, how reactions intricate with each others, how you have to use your brain to prepare a string of spells. Right now GW2 does have such a thing, but only a bit. For someone who discovers MMOs, or even videogames, it might be a blast. But for the average gamer (30 years old, remember, so playing mmos for a decade...), so few mechanics is just not enough. It's just an appetizer.
I observed a lot of players giving their feedback on different forums for a lot of MMOs, and the current % of people who actually ask themselves deeper questions than "how can I do the biggest crit", or "where can I have the shiniest armor" ... well, that % is just ridiculously low for me to hope having another high of gameplay interest in the genre any day soon.
____________________
TL;DR : ALL mmos will be boring after 2 monthes as long as most people won't ask themselves the good question : "Will I still have fun with my char after the 1000th fight ?" And you should ask yourself this question right from the start, even before release, by digging spells, their actions, reactions, and mechanics. Then think, min-max, test, etc... and submit your feedback to devs on this subject, more than on how cool is the boss looking, or how much damage you can do in one hit.
SWTOR has some of worst case of skill bloat and it failed miserably.
OTOH, GW2 combat is one of the most fluid and invloved out there.
I can't disagree on that, but fluid and involved doesn't equal to varied and lasting, unfortunately.
That's what is even more frustrating with GW2 imo : the combat bases and mechanics are there, and they are good, but there are not enough choices. So it's a great experience for 1, 2 monthes, and then it becomes horribly repetitive. It's really a wasted opportunity to be another "home" for a lot of mmo vets.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
SWTOR has some of worst case of skill bloat and it failed miserably.
OTOH, GW2 combat is one of the most fluid and invloved out there.
I agree SWTOR had bad combat will animation delay. But GW2 also has extremely clunky and floatly combat, one of my biggest issues with the game. It was not responsive, easy to test, strafe really quickly and it will be very apparent.
Using that argument we can't prove the game is a success or "thriving" either. I will take that.
I presented facts, not irrelevant numbers from unreliable third party sources, sales numbers which are only part of the total income of the game, or population numbers based on a niche "sPvP" part of the whole game.
Fact is, no company recruits for a product that is not doing well, and certainly not mass recruitment like ANet is doing for months now. And the laughing will be even more on ANet's side when GW2 gets finally released in the East.
No matter how much you wish GW2 fails, you are wrong.
Again, I don't blame you for having your stance you are a fan of the game. SWTOR fans were the same way. Hiring in the short team is not a measure of success.
I don't think SW:TOR "fans" were the same, specially not when Bioware announced the layoffs. I was a SW:TOR player too, a "fan" of the game before release, and a couple of months after release I already knew the game was a failure and that it wouldn't survive in it's back then subscription based forum. I'm no blind fan, but I rely on facts.
If ANet ever announces layoffs next months, then I will be the first to agree with you that something is wrong, even though I doubt this will happen.
But as long as they have a page with like 30 job offers on it up on their site, its you who are obviously wrong.
As I said above, is it really so hard to admit that a game you dislike can be successful without your major financial support? There are dozens of MMOs I dislike strongly and would never play and which are doing just fine, yet you don't see me on a crusade on their respective forums trying to convince others that I'm right.
So you ignored the Trion Worlds, job listing I posted? I mean for the Defiance team specifically? I guess they are a success also?
So you ignored the Trion Worlds, job listing I posted? I mean for the Defiance team specifically? I guess they are a success also?
You conveniently forget or ignore that they fired a massive amount of people not long ago, and more a couple of days ago. It's common practice to then try to replace a part of them with less and cheaper employees. It's called reorganisation, when a product doesn't work as expected and can't cover the actual costs.
I just log in and goof off and do dailies because there is no sub fee. I don't see other players much except in Lion's Arch. I expect when Rift goes free Guild Wars 2 will empty out even more, at least for awhile. Then some players might drift back. Honestly for me the shiny on this game wore off when I realized that they didn't mean what they said about play your way. Too many disadvantages to not teaming. Like loot drops and of course those silly grindy endgame fractal things.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Yeah that is what I expected, it was 5 out of 7 by the way. Clearly, what this shows is Defiance was hiring. Even with that hiring they were doing, there were massive layoffs a couple of days ago. So "hiring" is not a good measure of a companies success. I mean 38 Studios were hiring top tier talent while bankrupt.
Seriously, you are clutching at straws now, and I won't waste any more of my time arguing with you.
Have fun having the last word, I'll be playing my "failing" game now that I've finished the work I had to do.
Yeah that is what I expected, it was 5 out of 7 by the way. Clearly, what this shows is Defiance was hiring. Even with that hiring they were doing, there were massive layoffs a couple of days ago. So "hiring" is not a good measure of a companies success. I mean 38 Studios were hiring top tier talent while bankrupt.
Seriously, you are clutching at straws now, and I won't waste any more of my time arguing with you.
Have fun having the last word, I'll be playing my "failing" game now that I've finished the work I had to do.
Yeah that is what I expected, it was 5 out of 7 by the way. Clearly, what this shows is Defiance was hiring. Even with that hiring they were doing, there were massive layoffs a couple of days ago. So "hiring" is not a good measure of a companies success. I mean 38 Studios were hiring top tier talent while bankrupt.
Using that argument we can't prove the game is a success or "thriving" either. I will take that.
I presented facts, not irrelevant numbers from unreliable third party sources, sales numbers which are only part of the total income of the game, or population numbers based on a niche "sPvP" part of the whole game.
Fact is, no company recruits for a product that is not doing well, and certainly not mass recruitment like ANet is doing for months now. And the laughing will be even more on ANet's side when GW2 gets finally released in the East.
No matter how much you wish GW2 fails, you are wrong.
Again, I don't blame you for having your stance you are a fan of the game. SWTOR fans were the same way. Hiring in the short team is not a measure of success.
Mike O'Brien wanted GW2 to be the number one MMO. Ahead of WoW. Now it seems like the meaning of success has been toned down.
But hiring 8 months after release can be considered a measure of success.
It's honestly difficult to understand where you're coming from with most things you say. Sometimes I think you just don't like the game, and because of that, you think it should fail. Or really, you think it will fail because you think it's bad. This seems to cloud the way you look at everything including official numbers released and other data like current hiring practices.
For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. It's 8 months later, there have been no layoffs and they are actually taking on a heavier load of employees. That is a good indication that the game has been doing well and is even perhaps getting ready for a major expansion.
Another thing that is obvious is that, for whatever reason, you think that GW2 is doing horrible because it didn't make as much money during it's second quarter as it did during it's release quarter. But it's not doing horrible. It made over 20% of NCSoft's profit this quarter and hasn't even been introduced to Asian markets yet. Instead of acknowledging that they are second only to Lineage 1, one of the most popular games of all time in Asia, you decide to deride the success and act like GW2 is a failure.
This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release in the west since WoW. You keep trying to compare it to other games like SWTOR, Warhammer, AoC and TSW, but the truth is, this game is not failing in the least while those other games had intense, deep layoffs with incredible server merges soon after they were released. It's 9 months later and they are chugging along and people are playing it. People are buying it. People are enjoying it. Next on the table will be an expansion and then we'll get to actually see how much retention they've had over their first year or so. Until then, feel free to come to this forum every day to let everyone know how much it's failing.
Another thing that is obvious is that, for whatever reason, you think that GW2 is doing horrible because it didn't make as much money during it's second quarter as it did during it's release quarter. But it's not doing horrible. It made over 20% of NCSoft's profit this quarter and hasn't even been introduced to Asian markets yet. Instead of acknowledging that they are second only to Lineage 1, one of the most popular games of all time in Asia, you decide to deride the success and act like GW2 is a failure.
This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release since WoW. You keep trying to compare it to other games like SWTOR, Warhammer, AoC and TSW, but the truth is, this game is not failing in the least while those other games had intense, deep layoffs with incredible server merges soon after they were released. It's 9 months later and they are chugging along and people are playing it. People are buying it. People are enjoying it. Next on the table will be an expansion an then we'll get to actually see how much retention they've had over their first year or so. Until then, feel more than happy to come to this forum every day to let everyone know how much it's failing.
First of all it is 20% of sales not profit. There is a huge difference between those terms. Profit could have been negative even with positive sales.
Secondly, do you have anything to back this up "This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release since WoW". This is the type of things a small minority of GW2 players throw out with nothing to back it up.
You claim others are ridiculous for making claims yet you do the same? Everything we have seen show a massive drop in player activity, anywhere from 70% to 90%. And sales drop add to that, and yet you can make claims with zero facts? "Hiring" is the fact you guys provide?
Yeah can't wait for the expansion that probably won't even be out by 2014.
Colddog04 -"For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. "
Xfire & Raptor charts of the two games were nearly identical during and directly afte the first monthm with swtor doing a little better. You remember the thread that had the two charts side by side. After that thread mmorpg started locking all Xfire threads.
Another thing that is obvious is that, for whatever reason, you think that GW2 is doing horrible because it didn't make as much money during it's second quarter as it did during it's release quarter. But it's not doing horrible. It made over 20% of NCSoft's profit this quarter and hasn't even been introduced to Asian markets yet. Instead of acknowledging that they are second only to Lineage 1, one of the most popular games of all time in Asia, you decide to deride the success and act like GW2 is a failure.
This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release since WoW. You keep trying to compare it to other games like SWTOR, Warhammer, AoC and TSW, but the truth is, this game is not failing in the least while those other games had intense, deep layoffs with incredible server merges soon after they were released. It's 9 months later and they are chugging along and people are playing it. People are buying it. People are enjoying it. Next on the table will be an expansion an then we'll get to actually see how much retention they've had over their first year or so. Until then, feel more than happy to come to this forum every day to let everyone know how much it's failing.
First of all it is 20% of sales not profit. There is a huge difference between those terms.
Secondly, do you have anything to back this up "This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release since WoW". This is the type of things a small minority of GW2 players throw out with nothing to back it up.
You claim others are ridiculous for making claims yet you do the same? Everything we have seen show a massive drop in player activity, anywhere from 70% to 90%. And sales drop add to that, and yet you can make claims with zero facts? "Hiring" is the fact you guys provide?
The graph that was linked earlier show very high sales even in the second quarter. We know they sold 3 million boxes. They did 30% of their first quarter sales in the second quarter. Those are pieces of data that matter.
There is nothing reliable in any way that shows a drop of 70 - 90% player activity.
Here are some facts for you in case you missed them earlier in the thread:
No server merges
No layoffs (like every other major western release)
Currently hiring more people
Talking about an expansion
Sold over 3 million copies in the first quarter
Made about 30% of what they made in the first quarter in the second quarter
They release monthly and bi-monthly content
They have released more content than any western MMORPG since WoW. And WoW is debateable
We can leave recruiting off the table if you want. It's not the most relevant reason why people are able to see that they're doing so well. It is just one of many indicators that help paint a larger picture of success.
Xfire and Raptor showed about 10K users playing at launch now that number is at 2000. 2k is still a strong number, but 80% less than at launch. To give some perspective swtor is now at 1k users playing.
Colddog04 -"For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. "
Xfire & Raptor charts of the two games were nearly identical during and directly afte the first monthm with swtor doing a little better. You remember the thread that had the two charts side by side. After that thread mmorpg started locking all Xfire threads.
I'm not going to do an X-fire argument thing. No one should in my opinion. It does show trends of player activity, but those trends are always almost exactly the same with every MMORPG released except for WoW in it's heyday.
GW2 did not have massive layoffs. It's like 9 months later now and there is no indication that anything of the sort will happen. The amount of content and even features that they add to the game is head and shoulders above SWTOR. To compare their success 9 months after release is only applicable to show how much better GW2 is doing than SWTOR was doing 9 months after release. Although, with the Freemium F2P model SWTOR has done, it's looking up for them IMO.
I still play GW2 very casually. When I do play I usually see other people in whatever zone I happen to be strolling around in. Not just a ton of people but always a couple at least, and then always at events in the zone.
My guild which I have been with across several games has almost all quit playing GW2 tho. We are a small guild with around 50 people roughly that started GW2 at release. I think we have about 6-8 people that still log in and play on a regular basis, with another 4-5 that pop in casually ( myself included ).
Thats a very small sample size and in no way represents the game population across the board. But I would think many guilds are in the same boat as us. People have either left GW2 or play once in awhile.
For me I just got bored after I was 80. I cant really put my finger on what was lacking tho. I just lost the desire to log in for an extended period. Popping in for an hour here and there is about all I do anymore. And even that is getting less and less.
The graph that was linked earlier show very high sales even in the second quarter. We know they sold 3 million boxes. They did 30% of their first quarter sales in the second quarter. Those are pieces of data that matter.
There is nothing reliable in any way that shows a drop of 70 - 90% player activity.
Here are some facts for you in case you missed them earlier in the thread:
No server merges
No layoffs (like every other major western release)
Currently hiring more people
Talking about an expansion
Sold over 3 million copies in the first quarter
Made about 30% of what they made in the first quarter in the second quarter
They release monthly and bi-monthly content
They have released more content than any western MMORPG since WoW. And WoW is debateable
We can leave recruiting off the table if you want. It's not the most relevant reason why people are able to see that they're doing so well. It is just one of many indicators that help paint a larger picture of success.
You can sell 10 million copies of your MMO, but if retention is low it means nothing, especially if it is as low as 10-30%. When your sales drop 73% especially after a 5 year hype cycle it is an issue. Not having server mergers doesn't mean the server is healthy. I played on 2 years on a server called Jaedenar, there were literally 20 max level characters on that server when I played. Blizzard did nothing about it, no server mergers and no free transfers either.
SWTOR talked about expansions and even launched an "expansion".
In terms of content, GW2 was launched an incomplete game. It launched with 8 dungeons, 1 mode for sPvP, no dungeon finder, no UI customization, no battleground finder, no duels. I can go on forever. Even if GW2 released a dungeon a month it would be behind in terms of content compared to MMOs like Tera and Neverwinter! They both launched with 16 dungeons.
The content GW2 releases are bug fixes and fixes to make the game "launch" ready. And what they do every month is not "content'. Bug fixes are not content. Making improvements to the game that should have been at launch is not content. Removing the culling is not content. Adding a map, but keeping the same PvP mode is not content. The fractals are something you can consider content.
Comments
Yeah right behind a 10+ year old game. Considering the competition it is against, it is nothing to be proud of really. Aion, B&S, Lineage? Remember we are talking about thriving and "growing". Based on those charts itself they lost 73% in sales.
In my estimation due to heavy market competition including from games like WildStar and ESO, GW2 might be forced to go F2P this year. It will hold hands with SWTOR where it belongs.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
You said NCSoft had great financial numbers. And I said yes, 80% were from regions GW2 was not sold at. So GW2 can't take sole credit for it. In fact, it was small portion of it.
WoW is 8 years old and it crushes everything else. It just sounds to me like Lineage is a really well respected solid game over there. I don't think that diminishes how successful GW2 has been at all. Honestly, for not having a sub or having released an expansion this quarter, it looks like things are doing great. I'll be curious to see what happens when they open this game up to the various Asian markets.
[mod edit]Using that argument we can't prove the game is a success or "thriving" either. I will take that.
Guess which games weren't in their portfolio last year at this time.
GW2 generated $200M revenue so far more than covering its costs and generating a good profit.
Financially it is a fact it is a success.
SWTOR on the other hand isn't at this time.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I totally stopped trying to enjoy the game 2 monthes after release. Tried a few more classes, but it was all the same : combat mechanics were not deep enough. For mmo vets who don't need handholding anymore, and need more than a dozen of spells to dig a gameplay longer than a month, the game would lack in this department very much.
I tried to highlight the problem I felt on the forums as soon as november 2012, searching for people who would feel the same, but only a few reacted. All others were more focused on how to acquire latest gear, and how their character look more than how did it play differently on each fight.
As time went by, I read more and more people on the forum highlighting that very problem, saying they wanted deeper mechanics, more spells, etc. But it was too late. Players prefered to express their focus on how shiny their toon would look like earlier, so the devs focused on that during all those monthes. Now a lot of people are wondering why they feel bored to death during fights, finding no more reason to play, even when new content keeps coming.
And that's the tipping point of my hopes for the mmo genre.
Masses do not ask themselves the good questions when giving feedback about what is good and what is lacking. They prefer to rely on their instant impression, without digging it a little bit more. So we end with only the surface of the problems, with things like "I want more damage", or "I want a shiny armor", or "give me cool dragons to fight". But never will they ask themselves why they want more content before having beaten up the actual. Because they're bored with how they interact with current content, simply.
And that, nothing will change it until a majority of people doesn't give proper feedback about the way we interact with our toon 80% of the time : the fighting mechanics. How spells interact with each others, how reactions intricate with each others, how you have to use your brain to prepare a string of spells. Right now GW2 does have such a thing, but only a bit. For someone who discovers MMOs, or even videogames, it might be a blast. But for the average gamer (30 years old, remember, so playing mmos for a decade...), so few mechanics is just not enough. It's just an appetizer.
I observed a lot of players giving their feedback on different forums for a lot of MMOs, and the current % of people who actually ask themselves deeper questions than "how can I do the biggest crit", or "where can I have the shiniest armor" ... well, that % is just ridiculously low for me to hope having another high of gameplay interest in the genre any day soon.
____________________
TL;DR : ALL mmos will be boring after 2 monthes as long as most people won't ask themselves the good question : "Will I still have fun with my char after the 1000th fight ?" And you should ask yourself this question right from the start, even before release, by digging spells, their actions, reactions, and mechanics. Then think, min-max, test, etc... and submit your feedback to devs on this subject, more than on how cool is the boss looking, or how much damage you can do in one hit.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
SWTOR has some of worst case of skill bloat and it failed miserably.
OTOH, GW2 combat is one of the most fluid and invloved out there.
I can't disagree on that, but fluid and involved doesn't equal to varied and lasting, unfortunately.
That's what is even more frustrating with GW2 imo : the combat bases and mechanics are there, and they are good, but there are not enough choices. So it's a great experience for 1, 2 monthes, and then it becomes horribly repetitive. It's really a wasted opportunity to be another "home" for a lot of mmo vets.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I agree SWTOR had bad combat will animation delay. But GW2 also has extremely clunky and floatly combat, one of my biggest issues with the game. It was not responsive, easy to test, strafe really quickly and it will be very apparent.
Again, I don't blame you for having your stance you are a fan of the game. SWTOR fans were the same way. Hiring in the short team is not a measure of success.
http://trionworlds.com/en/careers/
Mike O'Brien wanted GW2 to be the number one MMO. Ahead of WoW. Now it seems like the meaning of success has been toned down.
So you ignored the Trion Worlds, job listing I posted? I mean for the Defiance team specifically? I guess they are a success also?
http://trionworlds.com/en/careers/
I would fully admit it, if it were true, I would have no issues. But it just isn't.
Same page from a month ago:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130426074126/http://trionworlds.com/en/careers/
5 positions are pretty much exactly the same (for Defiance).
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Yeah that is what I expected, it was 5 out of 7 by the way. Clearly, what this shows is Defiance was hiring. Even with that hiring they were doing, there were massive layoffs a couple of days ago. So "hiring" is not a good measure of a companies success. I mean 38 Studios were hiring top tier talent while bankrupt.
http://trionworlds.com/en/careers/
Hiring is a good measure of success if you haven't recently fired a shitload of people.
Well you missed my previous post, they were also hiring a month ago, page from 4/26/13:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130426074126/http://trionworlds.com/en/careers/
Which was the point.
But hiring 8 months after release can be considered a measure of success.
It's honestly difficult to understand where you're coming from with most things you say. Sometimes I think you just don't like the game, and because of that, you think it should fail. Or really, you think it will fail because you think it's bad. This seems to cloud the way you look at everything including official numbers released and other data like current hiring practices.
For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. It's 8 months later, there have been no layoffs and they are actually taking on a heavier load of employees. That is a good indication that the game has been doing well and is even perhaps getting ready for a major expansion.
Another thing that is obvious is that, for whatever reason, you think that GW2 is doing horrible because it didn't make as much money during it's second quarter as it did during it's release quarter. But it's not doing horrible. It made over 20% of NCSoft's profit this quarter and hasn't even been introduced to Asian markets yet. Instead of acknowledging that they are second only to Lineage 1, one of the most popular games of all time in Asia, you decide to deride the success and act like GW2 is a failure.
This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release in the west since WoW. You keep trying to compare it to other games like SWTOR, Warhammer, AoC and TSW, but the truth is, this game is not failing in the least while those other games had intense, deep layoffs with incredible server merges soon after they were released. It's 9 months later and they are chugging along and people are playing it. People are buying it. People are enjoying it. Next on the table will be an expansion and then we'll get to actually see how much retention they've had over their first year or so. Until then, feel free to come to this forum every day to let everyone know how much it's failing.
First of all it is 20% of sales not profit. There is a huge difference between those terms. Profit could have been negative even with positive sales.
Secondly, do you have anything to back this up "This is a game that has outperformed every MMORPG release since WoW". This is the type of things a small minority of GW2 players throw out with nothing to back it up.
You claim others are ridiculous for making claims yet you do the same? Everything we have seen show a massive drop in player activity, anywhere from 70% to 90%. And sales drop add to that, and yet you can make claims with zero facts? "Hiring" is the fact you guys provide?
Yeah can't wait for the expansion that probably won't even be out by 2014.
Early morning devils advocate.
Colddog04 -"For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. "
Xfire & Raptor charts of the two games were nearly identical during and directly afte the first monthm with swtor doing a little better. You remember the thread that had the two charts side by side. After that thread mmorpg started locking all Xfire threads.
The graph that was linked earlier show very high sales even in the second quarter. We know they sold 3 million boxes. They did 30% of their first quarter sales in the second quarter. Those are pieces of data that matter.
There is nothing reliable in any way that shows a drop of 70 - 90% player activity.
Here are some facts for you in case you missed them earlier in the thread:
No server merges
No layoffs (like every other major western release)
Currently hiring more people
Talking about an expansion
Sold over 3 million copies in the first quarter
Made about 30% of what they made in the first quarter in the second quarter
They release monthly and bi-monthly content
They have released more content than any western MMORPG since WoW. And WoW is debateable
We can leave recruiting off the table if you want. It's not the most relevant reason why people are able to see that they're doing so well. It is just one of many indicators that help paint a larger picture of success.
Xfire and Raptor showed about 10K users playing at launch now that number is at 2000. 2k is still a strong number, but 80% less than at launch. To give some perspective swtor is now at 1k users playing.
I'm not going to do an X-fire argument thing. No one should in my opinion. It does show trends of player activity, but those trends are always almost exactly the same with every MMORPG released except for WoW in it's heyday.
GW2 did not have massive layoffs. It's like 9 months later now and there is no indication that anything of the sort will happen. The amount of content and even features that they add to the game is head and shoulders above SWTOR. To compare their success 9 months after release is only applicable to show how much better GW2 is doing than SWTOR was doing 9 months after release. Although, with the Freemium F2P model SWTOR has done, it's looking up for them IMO.
I still play GW2 very casually. When I do play I usually see other people in whatever zone I happen to be strolling around in. Not just a ton of people but always a couple at least, and then always at events in the zone.
My guild which I have been with across several games has almost all quit playing GW2 tho. We are a small guild with around 50 people roughly that started GW2 at release. I think we have about 6-8 people that still log in and play on a regular basis, with another 4-5 that pop in casually ( myself included ).
Thats a very small sample size and in no way represents the game population across the board. But I would think many guilds are in the same boat as us. People have either left GW2 or play once in awhile.
For me I just got bored after I was 80. I cant really put my finger on what was lacking tho. I just lost the desire to log in for an extended period. Popping in for an hour here and there is about all I do anymore. And even that is getting less and less.
You can sell 10 million copies of your MMO, but if retention is low it means nothing, especially if it is as low as 10-30%. When your sales drop 73% especially after a 5 year hype cycle it is an issue. Not having server mergers doesn't mean the server is healthy. I played on 2 years on a server called Jaedenar, there were literally 20 max level characters on that server when I played. Blizzard did nothing about it, no server mergers and no free transfers either.
SWTOR talked about expansions and even launched an "expansion".
In terms of content, GW2 was launched an incomplete game. It launched with 8 dungeons, 1 mode for sPvP, no dungeon finder, no UI customization, no battleground finder, no duels. I can go on forever. Even if GW2 released a dungeon a month it would be behind in terms of content compared to MMOs like Tera and Neverwinter! They both launched with 16 dungeons.
The content GW2 releases are bug fixes and fixes to make the game "launch" ready. And what they do every month is not "content'. Bug fixes are not content. Making improvements to the game that should have been at launch is not content. Removing the culling is not content. Adding a map, but keeping the same PvP mode is not content. The fractals are something you can consider content.