Colddog04 -"For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. "
Xfire & Raptor charts of the two games were nearly identical during and directly afte the first monthm with swtor doing a little better. You remember the thread that had the two charts side by side. After that thread mmorpg started locking all Xfire threads.
XFire and Raptor ONLY track people that have installed that software. It only would be a good measure if the software was installed as part of the game otherwise it is useless numbers.
Colddog04 -"For one, comparing the enormous decline that SWTOR had after launch to GW2 is ridiculous. "
Xfire & Raptor charts of the two games were nearly identical during and directly afte the first monthm with swtor doing a little better. You remember the thread that had the two charts side by side. After that thread mmorpg started locking all Xfire threads.
XFire and Raptor ONLY track people that have installed that software. It only would be a good measure if the software was installed as part of the game otherwise it is useless numbers.
Those numbers are not a trend of anything.
That is how polls work. The census data is also based on a sample. They don't poll every person in a given universe. I am sure it is not a representative sample, but it is the best we have.
Xfire and Raptor showed about 10K users playing at launch now that number is at 2000. 2k is still a strong number, but 80% less than at launch. To give some perspective swtor is now at 1k users playing.
It showed close to 20K people.
It also used to show WoW at 20K people.
WoW now has 3K people.
XFire and raptor are irrelevant.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
One last thing, until I see or hear from Eric Flannum (Lead Game Designer of GW2) I am going to assume he moved on or was laid off. That guy pulled a disappearing act on all of us. lol
Not been seen, heard, or talked about since launch.
And your little dungeon comparison is weak. The dungeons in GW2 literally have 4 different ways you can do each of them. Each branch is very different from the other branches. They have a similar theme, but the branches themselves are long and require different tactics and whatnot depending on where you go. That gives GW2 the same amount of dungeons as those two games combined at release and now they have fractals on top of that. It's so ridiculous that you would take that kind of a stance unless you really didn't understand the way the branches and explorable mode work.
It has a BG finder from release. The more I read your shit, the more it stinks. It just sounds like you barely played the game.
And the reason you aren't going to go on forever listing things is because you ran out of shit to list. The only thing it doesn't have at release that traditional MMORPGs have at release is raids. But then, it has a WvW system and most games don't have that.
/snip
And throughout all of it, they also brought things like Ascended gear, a ranking system for sPvP, an observable mode for sPvP, WvW ranks, massive amounts of jumping puzzles, a few mini games and who knows what else. It's been steadily giving players things to do the entire time and a lot of people can see that. I'm not sure why the hell anyone would say they haven't added any "content." It's just ramblings from someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.
Paths are not different dungeons, sorry no one buys that argument. Secondly, "gear", "ranking system", "observable mode", "WvW ranks" are not content. I will give you jumping puzzles and mini games.
A BG finder is a queue you can do from anywhere. You know the ones modern MMOs have. Not going and talking to a random NPC and then queuing.
Recently, Jeremey Gaffney from Carbine said it would be stupid for a developer to release a game without dungeon finder. MMORPG called him out and said a "big recent MMO didn't have one", and he face palmed literally.
GW2 launched with the least amount of PvE content compared to most MMOs in the market. Even with "updates" they are not up to par with recent MMO launches. They still have a lot of catching up to do, but it will be too late because people are already looking forward to WildStar and ESO.
Which is exactly why they lack in terms of retention, people have nothing to do. Especially at end game.
One last thing, until I see or hear from Eric Flannum (Lead Game Designer of GW2) I am going to assume he moved on or was laid off. That guy pulled a disappearing act on all of us. lol
Not been seen, heard, or talked about since launch.
This was lost in all those quotes, I would love to know the answer to this.
And your little dungeon comparison is weak. The dungeons in GW2 literally have 4 different ways you can do each of them. Each branch is very different from the other branches. They have a similar theme, but the branches themselves are long and require different tactics and whatnot depending on where you go. That gives GW2 the same amount of dungeons as those two games combined at release and now they have fractals on top of that. It's so ridiculous that you would take that kind of a stance unless you really didn't understand the way the branches and explorable mode work.
It has a BG finder from release. The more I read your shit, the more it stinks. It just sounds like you barely played the game.
And the reason you aren't going to go on forever listing things is because you ran out of shit to list. The only thing it doesn't have at release that traditional MMORPGs have at release is raids. But then, it has a WvW system and most games don't have that.
/snip
And throughout all of it, they also brought things like Ascended gear, a ranking system for sPvP, an observable mode for sPvP, WvW ranks, massive amounts of jumping puzzles, a few mini games and who knows what else. It's been steadily giving players things to do the entire time and a lot of people can see that. I'm not sure why the hell anyone would say they haven't added any "content." It's just ramblings from someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.
Paths are not different dungeons, sorry no one buys that argument. Secondly, "gear", "ranking system", "observable mode", "WvW ranks" are not content. I will give you jumping puzzles and mini games.
A BG finder is a queue you can do from anywhere. You know the ones modern MMOs have. Not going and talking to a random NPC and then queuing.
Recently, Jeremey Gaffney from Carbine said it would be stupid for a developer to release a game without dungeon finder. MMORPG called him out and said a "big recent MMO didn't have one", and he face palmed literally.
GW2 launched with the least amount of PvE content compared to most MMOs in the market. Even with "updates" they are not up to par with recent MMO launches. They still have a lot of catching up to do, but it will be too late because people are already looking forward to WildStar and ESO.
Which is exactly why they lack in terms of retention, people have nothing to do. Especially at end game.
See, that's the thing. They actually do have pretty good retention compared to every other MMORPG that has released since WoW. And one of the reasons they have that retention is because of the content and the content updates. You saying it has bad retention does not make it true. For a release title, they have a ton of stuff to do at endgame including WvW, sPvP, Fractals, dungeons and living story content. They have plenty to do when compared to other titles. The only thing they don't have is raids.
And what? A BG finder doesn't count if you have to talk to an NPC? No. Just no. It counts. It's in. You were wrong.
And I don't give a shit what Jeremy Gaffney said (although I like him), I also wish GW2 had a dungeon finder. I think it is poor form not to have one.
Raptr has a robust sample (20 million users), Xfire was "the" source a couple of years ago but people moved on to Raptr. One thing about Raptr though it can skew based on promotions. For example, Rift is the top MMO this week because they gave away the game + expansion + 30 days for being logged on for 14 hours. But if there are no promotions it is pretty solid in terms of seeing popularity of PC games.
When Rift goes F2P I will take a guess it goes WoW > Rift > Neverwinter > GW2 > SWTOR > Defiance.
One thing Raptr shows consistently is that SWTOR = GW2, with GW2 with a slight led.
They are just supporting the game. As I said, it is a normal thing to do. The SWTOR fans did the same.
Raptr has a robust sample (20 million users), Xfire was "the" source a couple of years ago but people moved on to Raptr. One thing about Raptr though it can skew based on promotions. For example, Rift is the top MMO this week because they gave away the game + expansion + 30 days for being logged on for 14 hours. But if there are no promotions it is pretty solid in terms of seeing popularity of PC games.
When Rift goes F2P I will take a guess it goes WoW > Rift > Neverwinter > GW2 > SWTOR > Defiance.
One thing Raptr shows consistently is that SWTOR = GW2, with GW2 with a slight led.
They are just supporting the game. As I said, it is a normal thing to do. The SWTOR fans did the same.
That list will be WoW > GW2 in like 2 weeks. And SWTOR is doing great right now. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P. That's 2.2 million players. If GW2 is above those numbers, I'd say they were doing pretty freaking awesome in retention.
See, that's the thing. They actually do have pretty good retention compared to every other MMORPG that has released since WoW. And one of the reasons they have that retention is because of the content and the content updates. You saying it has bad retention does not make it true. For a release title, they have a ton of stuff to do at endgame including WvW, sPvP, Fractals, dungeons and living story content. They have plenty to do when compared to other titles. The only thing they don't have is raids.
And what? A BG finder doesn't count if you have to talk to an NPC? No. Just no. It counts. It's in. You were wrong.
And I don't give a shit what Jeremy Gaffney said (although I like him), I also wish GW2 had a dungeon finder. I think it is poor form not to have one.
Any facts to back the retention data?
BG Finder is exactly like a Dungeon Finder. You can queue for it anywhere in the world. When WoW BGs in 2004 or 2005 you had to talk to the NPC to go into a BG. They evolved into the modern era where you could queue for it anywhere in the world. That is the whole point of the "finder" system. You can queue, do what you were doing, get a BG going and get back to where you were.
A random NPC in the mists that opens up a browser isn't it.
Why is it that every people on the internet that start an argument fight needs to show it to the world ... ?
can't you guys just redirect your fight in PM ?
Fact : 100% of the argument fights I had that I redirected into a PM ended either in other guy ending his muscle flex because of the frontal adressing, either in both of us suddenly finding a common agreement around the debate.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
That list will be WoW > GW2 in like 2 weeks. And SWTOR is doing great right now. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P. That's 2.2 million players. If GW2 is above those numbers, I'd say they were doing pretty freaking awesome in retention.
I hope so for GW2's sake because at the moment, even with the "limited" time content, GW2 is ranked 5th among MMOs. And it is unfortunate SWTOR is doing great with such a crappy F2P system.
See, that's the thing. They actually do have pretty good retention compared to every other MMORPG that has released since WoW. And one of the reasons they have that retention is because of the content and the content updates. You saying it has bad retention does not make it true. For a release title, they have a ton of stuff to do at endgame including WvW, sPvP, Fractals, dungeons and living story content. They have plenty to do when compared to other titles. The only thing they don't have is raids.
And what? A BG finder doesn't count if you have to talk to an NPC? No. Just no. It counts. It's in. You were wrong.
And I don't give a shit what Jeremy Gaffney said (although I like him), I also wish GW2 had a dungeon finder. I think it is poor form not to have one.
Any facts to back the retention data?
BG Finder is exactly like a Dungeon Finder. You can queue for it anywhere in the world. When WoW BGs in 2004 or 2005 you had to talk to the NPC to go into a BG. They evolved into the modern era where you could queue for it anywhere in the world. That is the whole point of the "finder" system. You can queue, do what you were doing, get a BG going and get back to where you were.
A random NPC in the mists that opens up a browser isn't it.
Just look above. According to Raptr, GW2 is consistently above SWTOR, a game that houses 2.2 million players right now.
Just look above. According to Raptr, GW2 is consistently above SWTOR, a game that houses 2.2 million players right now.
I know you understand this. When Tera announced that it picked up half a million players within 2 weeks of F2P it doesn't actually mean all 500k stayed. If you played for a minute you are considered a new player. Some games count accounts created.
Should be start counting free trials to WoW as players too?
Just look above. According to Raptr, GW2 is consistently above SWTOR, a game that houses 2.2 million players right now.
I know you understand this. When Tera announced that it picked up half a million players within 2 weeks of F2P it doesn't actually mean all 500k stayed. If you played for a minute you are considered a new player. Some games count accounts created.
Should be start counting free trials to WoW as players too?
Umm... I don't know why you're missing this, but those numbers didn't come from the first two weeks. That was recent data. That was what they said they had playing. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P players.
Also, Rift is now number 1 on Raptr. It has one of the lowest populations out of all the games we are talking about with a total of 6 servers I believe. Defiance and Neverwinter just came out and they don't even come close. Obviously Raptr sucks balls even if it does show that SWTOR, a game with 2.2 million people playing is consistently lower than GW2 on the meters.
Just look above. According to Raptr, GW2 is consistently above SWTOR, a game that houses 2.2 million players right now.
I know you understand this. When Tera announced that it picked up half a million players within 2 weeks of F2P it doesn't actually mean all 500k stayed. If you played for a minute you are considered a new player. Some games count accounts created.
Should be start counting free trials to WoW as players too?
Umm... I don't know why you're missing this, but those numbers didn't come from the first two weeks. That was recent data. That was what they said they had playing. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P players.
Also, Rift is now number 1 on Raptr. It has one of the lowest populations out of all the games we are talking about with a total of 6 servers I believe. Defiance and Neverwinter just came out and they don't even come close. Obviously Raptr sucks balls even if it does show that SWTOR, a game with 2.2 million people playing is consistently lower than GW2 on the meters.
I was talking about Tera picking up "500k players in 2 weeks". This is exactly what EA said about SWTOR:
"Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service,"
Again, those are easier than boxed sales. You play for a minute and you are a "new player".
As I said numerous times, Rift was inflated because they were giving out the game + the expansion + 1 month sub based on a promotion. Before the promotion it was ranked 5 or 6th.
Raptr is pretty reliable. I would say GW2 and SWTOR are pretty much on par. How many players we don't know. But they are on par for sure.
Neverwinter is surprisingly popular, it might help that it is new.
That list will be WoW > GW2 in like 2 weeks. And SWTOR is doing great right now. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P. That's 2.2 million players. If GW2 is above those numbers, I'd say they were doing pretty freaking awesome in retention.
I hope so for GW2's sake because at the moment, even with the "limited" time content, GW2 is ranked 5th among MMOs. And it is unfortunate SWTOR is doing great with such a crappy F2P system.
Since launch GW2 always had limited time content.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Not 500k as I stated previously. It is cute marketing like hyping up box sales.
That's a lot of players. I don't understand why you are trying to make a distinction. F2P players use Raptr too. SWTOR has 500k subs and 1.7 million F2P players. That's 2.2 million. GW2 is even more impressive because you actually have to buy the game to get your Raptr account updating the numbers whereas SWTOR users can be F2P and use Raptr. The only reason those other games are above SWTOR and GW2 right now are:
1. Rift had a crazy promotion for Raptr like you said.
2. Neverwinter is new.
3. Defiance is new.
I mean, at least give these games 9 months before you start announcing that they have better retention or whatever.
That's a lot of players. I don't understand why you are trying to make a distinction. F2P players use Raptr too. SWTOR has 500k subs and 1.7 million F2P players. That's 2.2 million. GW2 is even more impressive because you actually have to buy the game to get your Raptr account updating the numbers whereas SWTOR users can be F2P and use Raptr. The only reason those other games are above SWTOR and GW2 right now are:
1. Rift had a crazy promotion for Raptr like you said.
2. Neverwinter is new.
3. Defiance is new.
I mean, at least give these games 9 months before you start announcing that they have better retention or whatever.
I agree with you, they do use Raptr. But here is the key word that is pretty much the main point of this thread, it is retention. According to the stats for Tera (1.4 million NA, 500K EU). So Tera added about 2 million new players. Do they have 2 million players? Obviously not.
You know how competitive the MMO market is? Just this year we will probably see 4 "new" big MMOs (ArcheAge, WildStar, ESO, FFXIV:AAR). And most players will flock to them. In 9 months time, the MMO we are talking about now, probably will be ancient history really (except WoW). So I like to talk about the present.
That's a lot of players. I don't understand why you are trying to make a distinction. F2P players use Raptr too. SWTOR has 500k subs and 1.7 million F2P players. That's 2.2 million. GW2 is even more impressive because you actually have to buy the game to get your Raptr account updating the numbers whereas SWTOR users can be F2P and use Raptr. The only reason those other games are above SWTOR and GW2 right now are:
1. Rift had a crazy promotion for Raptr like you said.
2. Neverwinter is new.
3. Defiance is new.
I mean, at least give these games 9 months before you start announcing that they have better retention or whatever.
I agree with you, they do use Raptr. But here is the key word that is pretty much the main point of this thread, it is retention. According to the stats for Tera (1.4 million NA, 500K EU). So Tera added about 2 million new players. Do they have 2 million players? Obviously not.
You know how competitive the MMO market is? Just this year we will probably see 4 "new" big MMOs (ArcheAge, WildStar, ESO, FFXIV:AAR). And most players will flock to them. In 9 months time, the MMO we are talking about now, probably will be ancient history really. So I like to talk about the present.
Oh, I think what you're trying to say is that SWTOR does not have 1.7 million F2P players that logged in within the last month. Or maybe you're trying to say they don't play as much so they don't matter as much. I'm not sure. But your Raptr numbers mixed with facts = GW2 has pretty damn good retention.
I would love to try GW2, but they dot offer a trial. I honestly think this is ridiculous. The game looks well polished and unique in some ways(and not in others). I was not a GW1 player so I dont know exactly what to expect. I have watched vids/screenshots/reviews/non-sense forum posts/etc, but in the end you have to form your own opinion. I just refuse to give them $60 to try the game for a few days. I even emailed support and told them that to see if they would give me an access code to try for 3-4 days.. wasnt happening(worth a shot! lol) . There was a free weekend last month unfortunately I wasnt around and able to play during that time period.
It could help the population/game sales if they would allow people a free week.. I also want to point out that I am not cheap or want to take advantage of their hard work. I just simply like to try MMO's before I commit as there has been so many disappointments the last few years. I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
Comments
By the way if you are looking at Xfire stats, about 29 weeks into launch here are the stats for both games:
SWTOR = 10,015
GW2 = 10,676
Pretty close.
And this latest month according to Raptr:
GW2 = 266,584 hours played
SWTOR = 234, 197 hours played
So GW2 and SWTOR are on par with each other, and were pretty much all the way from launch to 7 months in.
XFire and Raptor ONLY track people that have installed that software. It only would be a good measure if the software was installed as part of the game otherwise it is useless numbers.
Those numbers are not a trend of anything.
That is how polls work. The census data is also based on a sample. They don't poll every person in a given universe. I am sure it is not a representative sample, but it is the best we have.
It showed close to 20K people.
It also used to show WoW at 20K people.
WoW now has 3K people.
XFire and raptor are irrelevant.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
One last thing, until I see or hear from Eric Flannum (Lead Game Designer of GW2) I am going to assume he moved on or was laid off. That guy pulled a disappearing act on all of us. lol
Not been seen, heard, or talked about since launch.
Paths are not different dungeons, sorry no one buys that argument. Secondly, "gear", "ranking system", "observable mode", "WvW ranks" are not content. I will give you jumping puzzles and mini games.
A BG finder is a queue you can do from anywhere. You know the ones modern MMOs have. Not going and talking to a random NPC and then queuing.
Recently, Jeremey Gaffney from Carbine said it would be stupid for a developer to release a game without dungeon finder. MMORPG called him out and said a "big recent MMO didn't have one", and he face palmed literally.
GW2 launched with the least amount of PvE content compared to most MMOs in the market. Even with "updates" they are not up to par with recent MMO launches. They still have a lot of catching up to do, but it will be too late because people are already looking forward to WildStar and ESO.
Which is exactly why they lack in terms of retention, people have nothing to do. Especially at end game.
This was lost in all those quotes, I would love to know the answer to this.
See, that's the thing. They actually do have pretty good retention compared to every other MMORPG that has released since WoW. And one of the reasons they have that retention is because of the content and the content updates. You saying it has bad retention does not make it true. For a release title, they have a ton of stuff to do at endgame including WvW, sPvP, Fractals, dungeons and living story content. They have plenty to do when compared to other titles. The only thing they don't have is raids.
And what? A BG finder doesn't count if you have to talk to an NPC? No. Just no. It counts. It's in. You were wrong.
And I don't give a shit what Jeremy Gaffney said (although I like him), I also wish GW2 had a dungeon finder. I think it is poor form not to have one.
Raptr has a robust sample (20 million users), Xfire was "the" source a couple of years ago but people moved on to Raptr. One thing about Raptr though it can skew based on promotions. For example, Rift is the top MMO this week because they gave away the game + expansion + 30 days for being logged on for 14 hours. But if there are no promotions it is pretty solid in terms of seeing popularity of PC games.
When Rift goes F2P I will take a guess it goes WoW > Rift > Neverwinter > GW2 > SWTOR > Defiance.
One thing Raptr shows consistently is that SWTOR = GW2, with GW2 with a slight led.
They are just supporting the game. As I said, it is a normal thing to do. The SWTOR fans did the same.
That list will be WoW > GW2 in like 2 weeks. And SWTOR is doing great right now. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P. That's 2.2 million players. If GW2 is above those numbers, I'd say they were doing pretty freaking awesome in retention.
Any facts to back the retention data?
BG Finder is exactly like a Dungeon Finder. You can queue for it anywhere in the world. When WoW BGs in 2004 or 2005 you had to talk to the NPC to go into a BG. They evolved into the modern era where you could queue for it anywhere in the world. That is the whole point of the "finder" system. You can queue, do what you were doing, get a BG going and get back to where you were.
A random NPC in the mists that opens up a browser isn't it.
Why is it that every people on the internet that start an argument fight needs to show it to the world ... ?
can't you guys just redirect your fight in PM ?
Fact : 100% of the argument fights I had that I redirected into a PM ended either in other guy ending his muscle flex because of the frontal adressing, either in both of us suddenly finding a common agreement around the debate.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I hope so for GW2's sake because at the moment, even with the "limited" time content, GW2 is ranked 5th among MMOs. And it is unfortunate SWTOR is doing great with such a crappy F2P system.
Just look above. According to Raptr, GW2 is consistently above SWTOR, a game that houses 2.2 million players right now.
I know you understand this. When Tera announced that it picked up half a million players within 2 weeks of F2P it doesn't actually mean all 500k stayed. If you played for a minute you are considered a new player. Some games count accounts created.
Should be start counting free trials to WoW as players too?
Umm... I don't know why you're missing this, but those numbers didn't come from the first two weeks. That was recent data. That was what they said they had playing. 500 k subs and 1.7 million F2P players.
Also, Rift is now number 1 on Raptr. It has one of the lowest populations out of all the games we are talking about with a total of 6 servers I believe. Defiance and Neverwinter just came out and they don't even come close. Obviously Raptr sucks balls even if it does show that SWTOR, a game with 2.2 million people playing is consistently lower than GW2 on the meters.
I was talking about Tera picking up "500k players in 2 weeks". This is exactly what EA said about SWTOR:
"Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service,"
Again, those are easier than boxed sales. You play for a minute and you are a "new player".
As I said numerous times, Rift was inflated because they were giving out the game + the expansion + 1 month sub based on a promotion. Before the promotion it was ranked 5 or 6th.
Raptr is pretty reliable. I would say GW2 and SWTOR are pretty much on par. How many players we don't know. But they are on par for sure.
Neverwinter is surprisingly popular, it might help that it is new.
I take that back, Tera NA by itself added 1.4 million new players within 2 weeks of F2P
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-20-tera-crosses-1-4-million-after-f2p-switch
Not 500k as I stated previously. It is cute marketing like hyping up box sales.
Since launch GW2 always had limited time content.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Forget looking for dungeon, I am looking for Eric Flannum.
We need to get to the bottom of this. Something suspicious is going on. lol
My Google skills aren't helping.
Communication was lost July '12.
That's a lot of players. I don't understand why you are trying to make a distinction. F2P players use Raptr too. SWTOR has 500k subs and 1.7 million F2P players. That's 2.2 million. GW2 is even more impressive because you actually have to buy the game to get your Raptr account updating the numbers whereas SWTOR users can be F2P and use Raptr. The only reason those other games are above SWTOR and GW2 right now are:
1. Rift had a crazy promotion for Raptr like you said.
2. Neverwinter is new.
3. Defiance is new.
I mean, at least give these games 9 months before you start announcing that they have better retention or whatever.
I agree with you, they do use Raptr. But here is the key word that is pretty much the main point of this thread, it is retention. According to the stats for Tera (1.4 million NA, 500K EU). So Tera added about 2 million new players. Do they have 2 million players? Obviously not.
You know how competitive the MMO market is? Just this year we will probably see 4 "new" big MMOs (ArcheAge, WildStar, ESO, FFXIV:AAR). And most players will flock to them. In 9 months time, the MMO we are talking about now, probably will be ancient history really (except WoW). So I like to talk about the present.
Oh, I think what you're trying to say is that SWTOR does not have 1.7 million F2P players that logged in within the last month. Or maybe you're trying to say they don't play as much so they don't matter as much. I'm not sure. But your Raptr numbers mixed with facts = GW2 has pretty damn good retention.
I would love to try GW2, but they dot offer a trial. I honestly think this is ridiculous. The game looks well polished and unique in some ways(and not in others). I was not a GW1 player so I dont know exactly what to expect. I have watched vids/screenshots/reviews/non-sense forum posts/etc, but in the end you have to form your own opinion. I just refuse to give them $60 to try the game for a few days. I even emailed support and told them that to see if they would give me an access code to try for 3-4 days.. wasnt happening(worth a shot! lol) . There was a free weekend last month unfortunately I wasnt around and able to play during that time period.
It could help the population/game sales if they would allow people a free week.. I also want to point out that I am not cheap or want to take advantage of their hard work. I just simply like to try MMO's before I commit as there has been so many disappointments the last few years. I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.