It has been a known fact for several years now that the average age of gamers is somewhere between 28-35. I firmly believe developers want to shed that image in the worst possible way because to them catering to the older crowd does not equate into long term profits because they feel that when player get older they lose interest in gaming which ofcourse has been proven wrong on so many accounts already. They feel by making our games look like Disney cartoons, more accessible to a larger audience ( which really means lets cater to the 10 year olds ) and dumbing down content just for the sake of sales is the right way to go. Here are just a few examples..
1. WoW - Cartoonish graphics and character models used to attract the younger crowd and trying to make the game more accessible to younger players. I think at one time the average age of WoW players was 18-19 but I believe that has changed drastically now. Heck most people are leaving this game because Blizzard made WoW super easy to appeal to younger players. Ooops almost forgot to mention pandas!
2. Warhammer Online - Used almost the same art style to accomplish the same goal as Blizzard. They failed miserably.
3. The Old Republic - The stylized realism term was highly used with Bioware. They tried to actually convince us that is wasn't WoW 2.0. Obviously the attempted failed miserably as well.
4. Guild Wars 2 - ArenaNet's art style was a failed attempted at getting rid of the older mature players in the game for in favor of the 10 year olds once again. Not only the art style but the actually storybook like cinematics they used was just god awful.
5. Diablo 3 - Blizzard completely changed the art style in their game just to make it appeal to a larger audience meaning once again, the 10 year olds. it sold something like 12 mill copies but the game only sold thanks to Blizzard North's great reputation.
6. Everquest Next - Same thing, the game looks like a Walt Disney cartoon. They want the game to appeal to the much younger crowd. This game will not be for the hardcore players or even the mature audience. Yep headed for failure yet again.
7. Dragon Age 2 - Completely redid the art style, results were quite messy to say the least. The actual game was actually bad compared to the original as well.
You could also throw in Free Realms, Aion and Wild Star.
So this is only part of the reason why mmos for almost the past 10 years have had minimal success to complete failure. The truth is that the average gamer between 28-35 is never ever going to go away. So if developers keep on trying to shed that older gamer image mmos will always continue to have average to near failure results.
Here is also a little bit of factual info I found about the average age of gamers. This poll was taken in the UK.
The fact is, game companies are embracing gamers of all ages, and as technology spreads, more people across all age groups will be playing them. Trying to "shed" older gamers would be one of the dumbest business moves of all time. Big games, such as ones you mentioned , need as many subscribers as possible and the developers surely don't care how old people are.
The stylized graphics are easily explained and have nothing to do with your theory. I'm not even going to bother discussing it further, because if you really think games like EQN have stylized graphics because they want to get rid of older gamers, then you and I are unlikely to get very far in a discussion.
Logic fail ? I guess you missed the factuall link I posted as well. Not to mention you can look it up on the internet yourself. So much for logic eh ?
You can also look up very specific reasons why developers are using stylized graphics in their mainstream games. SOE talked about their decision to use it in EQN in their world panel, and if you follow any other mainstream developers, you will hear similar reasons as well, such as:
1) It ages better than so called "realistic" graphics
2) Accessibility: stylized graphics run on a wider range of hardware allowing more players
3) Scalability: stylized graphics scale better visually with detail sliders than "realistic" graphics.
4) Procedural graphics: In the case of EQN, many of the visual elements are procedurally generated, meaning they are using algorithms and rules to create visual elements rather than hand-built models and hand-painted textures. This is key to the player construction / destruction of the game world and elements. Procedurally generating stylized art is much easier than trying to do it with more realistic art, at this stage in technology.
Older gamers spend more money. In fact, I'm betting most of the whining from people who think all games should be completely free around here is from kids or adults with the intellect of kids. Hell, I spent about $500 this past year on kickstarter donations for games that may or may not even ever release.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
The fact is, game companies are embracing gamers of all ages, and as technology spreads, more people across all age groups will be playing them. Trying to "shed" older gamers would be one of the dumbest business moves of all time. Big games, such as ones you mentioned , need as many subscribers as possible and the developers surely don't care how old people are.
The stylized graphics are easily explained and have nothing to do with your theory. I'm not even going to bother discussing it further, because if you really think games like EQN have stylized graphics because they want to get rid of older gamers, then you and I are unlikely to get very far in a discussion.
yeah pretty much "this".
Unless someone has had some sort of paradigm shift in their life, once a gamer/game player always a gamer/game player.
What's more, once you are older you have more income, more disposable income (provided you are smart about your finances) and people who are retired have not only their retirement (*see smart about your finances) but also "time".
time to do things.
Who would I rather market my games toward? Younger people who don't have money, might be looking for a lot of free games or older people who have larger incomes and eventually more free time?
And the stylized graphics are indeed so that they last longer.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My explanation for the Sony decisions (to us a less inflammatory word) is MONEY. WOW proved they could convince players with pc's to accept a product that grossly under utilizes the pc owners machine capabilities with minimized art/graphics.
The console market while smaller than the pc is significant.
Game companies want to sell to as many consumers as possible.(Smedley hinted at this issue(struggle between pc and console) in his keynote).He knew what was coming the next day.
And so we( I only use a pc) .....the pc users are supposed to buy the"we are choosing a design that won't age" rationale for drummed down graphics that allow a console to play the game.Do pc makers follow that maxim......do video card makers...do smart phone makers....do console makers.....do television makers. NO ! People who's product is reliant on technology embrace change...embrace "next" generation.Embrace more capability....not less.
As for the age argument....in many regions of the world...the population is aging.Older is where the population growth is in many parts of the world. Not younger.
Today's gamer ...in general ....is far more experienced.Mature.You have seen that maturity...that experience expressed in the last 24 hours in the reaction to an console action game we saw yesterday that again followed the profit maximizing mentality and decided to use the name EVERQUEST one more time in order to pull in a few more EVERQUEST lemmings.
Businesses have been catering to the 10 year old crowd for many, many years now. Just look at how soccer promoted to the under 12 crowd all through the 1970s and 1980s and how soccer has completely overtaken Americanized football here in the states... Oh, wait!
Somewhere businesses have gotten the notion that the 10-year old crowd drives the market. That the 10-year old in every household makes all the entertainment decisions. The companies, therefore, aim their products and marketing towards that age group. Ever seen a car commercial where the 'smart' kid has to help his parents with deciding on a new car? Me, too. They make me want to turn around and yell "Don't make me pull this car over!" This didn't happen twenty, or even ten years ago. Now, the focus on selling to children drives many companies, and the gaming companies seem to be following this lead.
Somehow, I don't agree.
Children want more than anything to be inducted into the world the adults have. They want to go to older, more mature movies. They want more engaging, challenging stories. They want more complex, in-depth games. They want to sit at the grown-ups table!
But businesses see children as the children of fifty years ago, where they can build tomorrow's customer by catering to the youth of today. Sorry to say it, but brand loyalty is dead. The business of today is now! The marketplace is today. In 2 years, the customer profile is going to be completely different from the customer of today. If a company caters to one generation in hopes of attracting a 'customer for life', they are doomed for failure in the long run.
Catering to a specific demographic, like the cartoon character models of EQN seem to be doing, is ignoring a large part of the current customers. The customers that are going to pay for and play this game are the parents of the children that EQN seems to be positioning itself for. Maybe that's a solid business strategy, it works for Disney -- everyone knows Disney products are safe for children. So, game companies are following the general trend and marketing their products towards today's children.
But, the adult market, myself included, is excluded. We're paying the freight, but we're neglected. And right now, we're feeling pain. We are wounded, and we're lashing out, hoping that we will be heard. But we know, we will not.
Where is it established that cartoonish graphics (aka stylized, high saturation, non-photoreal) only appeals to 10 year olds?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Businesses have been catering to the 10 year old crowd for many, many years now. Just look at how soccer promoted to the under 12 crowd all through the 1970s and 1980s and how soccer has completely overtaken Americanized football here in the states... Oh, wait!
Somewhere businesses have gotten the notion that the 10-year old crowd drives the market. That the 10-year old in every household makes all the entertainment decisions. The companies, therefore, aim their products and marketing towards that age group. Ever seen a car commercial where the 'smart' kid has to help his parents with deciding on a new car? Me, too. They make me want to turn around and yell "Don't make me pull this car over!" This didn't happen twenty, or even ten years ago. Now, the focus on selling to children drives many companies, and the gaming companies seem to be following this lead.
Somehow, I don't agree.
Children want more than anything to be inducted into the world the adults have. They want to go to older, more mature movies. They want more engaging, challenging stories. They want more complex, in-depth games. They want to sit at the grown-ups table!
But businesses see children as the children of fifty years ago, where they can build tomorrow's customer by catering to the youth of today. Sorry to say it, but brand loyalty is dead. The business of today is now! The marketplace is today. In 2 years, the customer profile is going to be completely different from the customer of today. If a company caters to one generation in hopes of attracting a 'customer for life', they are doomed for failure in the long run.
Catering to a specific demographic, like the cartoon character models of EQN seem to be doing, is ignoring a large part of the current customers. The customers that are going to pay for and play this game are the parents of the children that EQN seems to be positioning itself for. Maybe that's a solid business strategy, it works for Disney -- everyone knows Disney products are safe for children. So, game companies are following the general trend and marketing their products towards today's children.
But, the adult market, myself included, is excluded. We're paying the freight, but we're neglected. And right now, we're feeling pain. We are wounded, and we're lashing out, hoping that we will be heard. But we know, we will not.
I bet OP believes Family Guy, South Park, American Dad and Archer are also targeted to children.
Your hypothesis is ludicrous - utter garbage.
Dont forget Venture Brothers and Robot Chicken which are a parody of all the classic cartoons todays adults grew up with. And Spawn is most certainly not for kids. Even the original Looney Toons have jokes that are meant for adults.
Originally posted by tkreep Ages 25-55 are into stylized art styles. We love comics and Manga, and other games like Bioshock Infinite (which is a M rating) or Darksiders.
Originally posted by fs23otm
Exactly, I am 37, and I love comic, manga, Anime... I also love Movies, Reading, Football...
I know what to really appreciate... good fun, social friendships, and kickin the crap out of some bad guys.
Originally posted by MMObro im 43 and not going anywhere
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus I am 35 and I am not going anywhere anytime soon.
Originally posted by Nadia I'm 51 and I love cartoons - bring them on!
Went ahead and fixed the age range for you tkreep.. 41 here, and will never give up gaming.. Now, you kids get off my lawn!
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
I bet OP believes Family Guy, South Park, American Dad and Archer are also targeted to children.
Your hypothesis is ludicrous - utter garbage.
Dont forget Venture Brothers and Robot Chicken which are a parody of all the classic cartoons todays adults grew up with. And Spawn is most certainly not for kids. Even the original Looney Toons have jokes that are meant for adults.
Fritz the Cat is kind of an adult cartoon, too.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Seriously where do you guys come up with this crap?
Art style appreciation has nothing to do with a players play style. I would fall into the sub-set of hardcore gamers (play and raid a lot), yet I loved the EQN graphics.
What sort of surveys or metrics have you gathered that support your claims about the relationship between casual gamers and stylised graphics?
That means over half the remaining players, around 4 million, are over the age of 28. Hardly what I would call immature or childish.
TLDR: Stop making up things to try and prove your own agenda. There is no correlation between art style and the age of players, or their playstyle. Quite a lot of hardcore raiders are looking forward to Wildstar, which is also heavily stylised.
Word. I don't even think the OP even read the link he posted because it seems to argue against his point. People are posting some really crazy stuff lately.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
At this age a lot of us at this age group have a lot more earning power than a younger audience. Why the hell would SOE decide to ignore that fact and focus their attention on a younger audience, a demographic that is shrinking in a lot of western countries. That doesn't make an iota of sense.
It has been a known fact for several years now that the average age of gamers is somewhere between 28-35. I firmly believe developers want to shed that image in the worst possible way because to them catering to the older crowd does not equate into long term profits because they feel that when player get older they lose interest in gaming which ofcourse has been proven wrong on so many accounts already. They feel by making our games look like Disney cartoons, more accessible to a larger audience ( which really means lets cater to the 10 year olds ) and dumbing down content just for the sake of sales is the right way to go. Here are just a few examples..
Your supposition that a few cartoony looking games means that the game industry is trying to shed the average adult gamer is a ridiculous leap in logic. We are the ones with all the money and even if the ten year olds had as much money as us, the devs would still want as wide an audience as possible. Certainly there are games aimed at children and games aimed at adults, but as a whole your entire premise is silly.
Clearly you don't like cartoony graphics and want to rant about it in some fashion and I am with you on that. I am not a fan, either, but sales are really what determine whether those games keep getting made or not. If every game that looked like WoW failed miserably, you would see them go away quickly. There is room for both types of games, but when a game you were looking forward to comes out with graphics that look like they were meant for a little kid and you want to beat the person responsible for that decision, let me know. I will hold him for you.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Game makers target kids for the same reason smoking companies do...once a gamer always a gamer. I'm sure they understand where the money is coming from but there is a massive market for mmo that adults can play WITH their children. Unlike smokers most gamers don't have the attitude of "don't repeat my mistakes, stay away from games " Most gamers want to get their kids hooked like they are because it's something they love doing and would like nothing more than something they can both do together.
In an age where finding anything to do with your kids is often a challenge, games are a very popular choice.
Businesses have been catering to the 10 year old crowd for many, many years now. Just look at how soccer promoted to the under 12 crowd all through the 1970s and 1980s and how soccer has completely overtaken Americanized football here in the states... Oh, wait!
Somewhere businesses have gotten the notion that the 10-year old crowd drives the market. That the 10-year old in every household makes all the entertainment decisions. The companies, therefore, aim their products and marketing towards that age group. Ever seen a car commercial where the 'smart' kid has to help his parents with deciding on a new car? Me, too. They make me want to turn around and yell "Don't make me pull this car over!" This didn't happen twenty, or even ten years ago. Now, the focus on selling to children drives many companies, and the gaming companies seem to be following this lead.
Somehow, I don't agree.
Children want more than anything to be inducted into the world the adults have. They want to go to older, more mature movies. They want more engaging, challenging stories. They want more complex, in-depth games. They want to sit at the grown-ups table!
But businesses see children as the children of fifty years ago, where they can build tomorrow's customer by catering to the youth of today. Sorry to say it, but brand loyalty is dead. The business of today is now! The marketplace is today. In 2 years, the customer profile is going to be completely different from the customer of today. If a company caters to one generation in hopes of attracting a 'customer for life', they are doomed for failure in the long run.
Catering to a specific demographic, like the cartoon character models of EQN seem to be doing, is ignoring a large part of the current customers. The customers that are going to pay for and play this game are the parents of the children that EQN seems to be positioning itself for. Maybe that's a solid business strategy, it works for Disney -- everyone knows Disney products are safe for children. So, game companies are following the general trend and marketing their products towards today's children.
But, the adult market, myself included, is excluded. We're paying the freight, but we're neglected. And right now, we're feeling pain. We are wounded, and we're lashing out, hoping that we will be heard. But we know, we will not.
Exactly Mendel. Exactly why they want to shred that image. Younger folks don't understand that because they haven't been through enough to understand it yet. They think they know but they clearly don't.
Your entire premise is absurd. The average age of humans alive today is likely in that age range, too, but that doesn't mean that most humans alive today are in the 28-35 age range.
Or to take your argument to its ridiculous conclusion, the "average" human is about half male and half female (in that about half of people are all male and about half are all female), but there aren't many particular people who are half male and half female, so a game that tried to cater only to such people wouldn't have much of an audience.
Furthermore, what does an art style have to do with an age range? Choosing an art style is largely about finding something that runs fast, looks decent, and can realistically be done on your budget. Photorealistic graphics would fail the first and last of those criteria.
I am a 20 year old gamer... Most of the gamers I know are between 16-25. In fact I rarely meet gamers in the age bracket you described. I happen to love the art direction EverQuest Next is going in. I've always dreamed of a Disney/Pixar like MMO though when it comes to graphics. The graphics literally look like they come from Tangled and I think that's pretty sweet
Originally posted by Razeekster I am a 20 year old gamer... Most of the gamers I know are between 16-25. In fact I rarely meet gamers in the age bracket you described. I happen to love the art direction EverQuest Next is going in. I've always dreamed of a Disney/Pixar like MMO though when it comes to graphics. The graphics literally look like they come from Tangled and I think that's pretty sweet
There are a lof of that age group on these forums. Heck, most of the gamers I know are in my age group. And I am with you, I like the stylized graphics. I don't know why people have a thing for realistic graphics.
I couldn't care less what the graphics style is like. I am more worried about actual gameplay and fun. As I say a lot: Graphics do not make a game great. Far from it actually. You can have all the pretty, realistic graphics in the world. If your game sucks, you have a pretty yet worthless game.
So who cares about what the graphics are like. The game has to be good for it to even matter.
Originally posted by Razeekster I am a 20 year old gamer... Most of the gamers I know are between 16-25. In fact I rarely meet gamers in the age bracket you described. I happen to love the art direction EverQuest Next is going in. I've always dreamed of a Disney/Pixar like MMO though when it comes to graphics. The graphics literally look like they come from Tangled and I think that's pretty sweet
There are a lof of that age group on these forums. Heck, most of the gamers I know are in my age group. And I am with you, I like the stylized graphics. I don't know why people have a thing for realistic graphics.
I couldn't care less what the graphics style is like. I am more worried about actual gameplay and fun. As I say a lot: Graphics do not make a game great. Far from it actually. You can have all the pretty, realistic graphics in the world. If your game sucks, you have a pretty yet worthless game.
So who cares about what the graphics are like. The game has to be good for it to even matter.
Not to mention that I seriously doubt a game with super realistic graphics would be able to handle features such as a fully destructible environment. I'd think that would be way too much stress on a server. Plus the game world is going to most likely be the biggest one that has ever existed in an online game due to there being an underground world to explore too. If it had super realistic graphics I can already imagine the lag with a world that huge and with all the players...
Originally posted by Razeekster I am a 20 year old gamer... Most of the gamers I know are between 16-25. In fact I rarely meet gamers in the age bracket you described. I happen to love the art direction EverQuest Next is going in. I've always dreamed of a Disney/Pixar like MMO though when it comes to graphics. The graphics literally look like they come from Tangled and I think that's pretty sweet
There are a lof of that age group on these forums. Heck, most of the gamers I know are in my age group. And I am with you, I like the stylized graphics. I don't know why people have a thing for realistic graphics.
I couldn't care less what the graphics style is like. I am more worried about actual gameplay and fun. As I say a lot: Graphics do not make a game great. Far from it actually. You can have all the pretty, realistic graphics in the world. If your game sucks, you have a pretty yet worthless game.
So who cares about what the graphics are like. The game has to be good for it to even matter.
Not to mention that I seriously doubt a game with super realistic graphics would be able to handle features such as a fully destructible environment. I'd think that would be way too much stress on a server. Plus the game world is going to most likely be the biggest one that has ever existed in an online game due to there being an underground world to explore too. If it had super realistic graphics I can already imagine the lag with a world that huge and with all the players...
Oh yeah, mad lag!!! I can see it and almost taste the whining now....
I like dark and serious. The overly protective NA culture is breading this out of younger people. Dark and serious means danger ... and you can't equate violence with danger any more. It is pacified and neutered so that all the violence exists but now looks like a fuzzy bunny that can't hurt you back.
Making games look visually neutral is indeed intended to attract a broader audience. This issue is, and I have been bringing this up a lot lately, mmos have always been niche and not about attracting the largest possible audience. You end up with games like Wow, Swtor, etc that rely upon splitting their communities up and catering to each separately within the same game. Game concept is thrown out the window at that point.
EQNext may simply have chosen their art design independently from any other system but there may be other compromises as well. How many it attempts to attract a larger audience with is a risk. At what point does it lose it's original audience? Did they even attempt to target their core audience?
Comments
You can also look up very specific reasons why developers are using stylized graphics in their mainstream games. SOE talked about their decision to use it in EQN in their world panel, and if you follow any other mainstream developers, you will hear similar reasons as well, such as:
1) It ages better than so called "realistic" graphics
2) Accessibility: stylized graphics run on a wider range of hardware allowing more players
3) Scalability: stylized graphics scale better visually with detail sliders than "realistic" graphics.
4) Procedural graphics: In the case of EQN, many of the visual elements are procedurally generated, meaning they are using algorithms and rules to create visual elements rather than hand-built models and hand-painted textures. This is key to the player construction / destruction of the game world and elements. Procedurally generating stylized art is much easier than trying to do it with more realistic art, at this stage in technology.
Older gamers spend more money. In fact, I'm betting most of the whining from people who think all games should be completely free around here is from kids or adults with the intellect of kids. Hell, I spent about $500 this past year on kickstarter donations for games that may or may not even ever release.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
yeah pretty much "this".
Unless someone has had some sort of paradigm shift in their life, once a gamer/game player always a gamer/game player.
What's more, once you are older you have more income, more disposable income (provided you are smart about your finances) and people who are retired have not only their retirement (*see smart about your finances) but also "time".
time to do things.
Who would I rather market my games toward? Younger people who don't have money, might be looking for a lot of free games or older people who have larger incomes and eventually more free time?
And the stylized graphics are indeed so that they last longer.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My explanation for the Sony decisions (to us a less inflammatory word) is MONEY. WOW proved they could convince players with pc's to accept a product that grossly under utilizes the pc owners machine capabilities with minimized art/graphics.
The console market while smaller than the pc is significant.
Game companies want to sell to as many consumers as possible.(Smedley hinted at this issue(struggle between pc and console) in his keynote).He knew what was coming the next day.
And so we( I only use a pc) .....the pc users are supposed to buy the"we are choosing a design that won't age" rationale for drummed down graphics that allow a console to play the game.Do pc makers follow that maxim......do video card makers...do smart phone makers....do console makers.....do television makers. NO ! People who's product is reliant on technology embrace change...embrace "next" generation.Embrace more capability....not less.
As for the age argument....in many regions of the world...the population is aging.Older is where the population growth is in many parts of the world. Not younger.
Today's gamer ...in general ....is far more experienced.Mature.You have seen that maturity...that experience expressed in the last 24 hours in the reaction to an console action game we saw yesterday that again followed the profit maximizing mentality and decided to use the name EVERQUEST one more time in order to pull in a few more EVERQUEST lemmings.
Businesses have been catering to the 10 year old crowd for many, many years now. Just look at how soccer promoted to the under 12 crowd all through the 1970s and 1980s and how soccer has completely overtaken Americanized football here in the states... Oh, wait!
Somewhere businesses have gotten the notion that the 10-year old crowd drives the market. That the 10-year old in every household makes all the entertainment decisions. The companies, therefore, aim their products and marketing towards that age group. Ever seen a car commercial where the 'smart' kid has to help his parents with deciding on a new car? Me, too. They make me want to turn around and yell "Don't make me pull this car over!" This didn't happen twenty, or even ten years ago. Now, the focus on selling to children drives many companies, and the gaming companies seem to be following this lead.
Somehow, I don't agree.
Children want more than anything to be inducted into the world the adults have. They want to go to older, more mature movies. They want more engaging, challenging stories. They want more complex, in-depth games. They want to sit at the grown-ups table!
But businesses see children as the children of fifty years ago, where they can build tomorrow's customer by catering to the youth of today. Sorry to say it, but brand loyalty is dead. The business of today is now! The marketplace is today. In 2 years, the customer profile is going to be completely different from the customer of today. If a company caters to one generation in hopes of attracting a 'customer for life', they are doomed for failure in the long run.
Catering to a specific demographic, like the cartoon character models of EQN seem to be doing, is ignoring a large part of the current customers. The customers that are going to pay for and play this game are the parents of the children that EQN seems to be positioning itself for. Maybe that's a solid business strategy, it works for Disney -- everyone knows Disney products are safe for children. So, game companies are following the general trend and marketing their products towards today's children.
But, the adult market, myself included, is excluded. We're paying the freight, but we're neglected. And right now, we're feeling pain. We are wounded, and we're lashing out, hoping that we will be heard. But we know, we will not.
*sigh* Depressed myself again. Gotta stop doing that.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Where is it established that cartoonish graphics (aka stylized, high saturation, non-photoreal) only appeals to 10 year olds?
coudlnt agree with this more.
I bet OP believes Family Guy, South Park, American Dad and Archer are also targeted to children.
Your hypothesis is ludicrous - utter garbage.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Dont forget Venture Brothers and Robot Chicken which are a parody of all the classic cartoons todays adults grew up with. And Spawn is most certainly not for kids. Even the original Looney Toons have jokes that are meant for adults.
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
Fritz the Cat is kind of an adult cartoon, too.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Word. I don't even think the OP even read the link he posted because it seems to argue against his point. People are posting some really crazy stuff lately.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Your supposition that a few cartoony looking games means that the game industry is trying to shed the average adult gamer is a ridiculous leap in logic. We are the ones with all the money and even if the ten year olds had as much money as us, the devs would still want as wide an audience as possible. Certainly there are games aimed at children and games aimed at adults, but as a whole your entire premise is silly.
Clearly you don't like cartoony graphics and want to rant about it in some fashion and I am with you on that. I am not a fan, either, but sales are really what determine whether those games keep getting made or not. If every game that looked like WoW failed miserably, you would see them go away quickly. There is room for both types of games, but when a game you were looking forward to comes out with graphics that look like they were meant for a little kid and you want to beat the person responsible for that decision, let me know. I will hold him for you.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
Game makers target kids for the same reason smoking companies do...once a gamer always a gamer. I'm sure they understand where the money is coming from but there is a massive market for mmo that adults can play WITH their children. Unlike smokers most gamers don't have the attitude of "don't repeat my mistakes, stay away from games " Most gamers want to get their kids hooked like they are because it's something they love doing and would like nothing more than something they can both do together.
In an age where finding anything to do with your kids is often a challenge, games are a very popular choice.
Exactly Mendel. Exactly why they want to shred that image. Younger folks don't understand that because they haven't been through enough to understand it yet. They think they know but they clearly don't.
Your entire premise is absurd. The average age of humans alive today is likely in that age range, too, but that doesn't mean that most humans alive today are in the 28-35 age range.
Or to take your argument to its ridiculous conclusion, the "average" human is about half male and half female (in that about half of people are all male and about half are all female), but there aren't many particular people who are half male and half female, so a game that tried to cater only to such people wouldn't have much of an audience.
Furthermore, what does an art style have to do with an age range? Choosing an art style is largely about finding something that runs fast, looks decent, and can realistically be done on your budget. Photorealistic graphics would fail the first and last of those criteria.
Smile
There are a lof of that age group on these forums. Heck, most of the gamers I know are in my age group. And I am with you, I like the stylized graphics. I don't know why people have a thing for realistic graphics.
I couldn't care less what the graphics style is like. I am more worried about actual gameplay and fun. As I say a lot: Graphics do not make a game great. Far from it actually. You can have all the pretty, realistic graphics in the world. If your game sucks, you have a pretty yet worthless game.
So who cares about what the graphics are like. The game has to be good for it to even matter.
Not to mention that I seriously doubt a game with super realistic graphics would be able to handle features such as a fully destructible environment. I'd think that would be way too much stress on a server. Plus the game world is going to most likely be the biggest one that has ever existed in an online game due to there being an underground world to explore too. If it had super realistic graphics I can already imagine the lag with a world that huge and with all the players...
Smile
42 here and I'm sold on the game. However I'd probably play a game this amazing and this innovative if the art looked like a stickman.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
Oh yeah, mad lag!!! I can see it and almost taste the whining now....
I like dark and serious. The overly protective NA culture is breading this out of younger people. Dark and serious means danger ... and you can't equate violence with danger any more. It is pacified and neutered so that all the violence exists but now looks like a fuzzy bunny that can't hurt you back.
Making games look visually neutral is indeed intended to attract a broader audience. This issue is, and I have been bringing this up a lot lately, mmos have always been niche and not about attracting the largest possible audience. You end up with games like Wow, Swtor, etc that rely upon splitting their communities up and catering to each separately within the same game. Game concept is thrown out the window at that point.
EQNext may simply have chosen their art design independently from any other system but there may be other compromises as well. How many it attempts to attract a larger audience with is a risk. At what point does it lose it's original audience? Did they even attempt to target their core audience?
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