I am 40 years old and playing MMOs in my favorite hobby. I play an average of 30 hrs/wk, and no, I am not some loser virgin living in my Mom's basement, I have an active social life and a job. I just love video games, especially MMOs in the last few years. Yes I played EQ1 and WoW but I LIKE the direction the games are going now - I personally don't think they're "dumbing down" but making it less tedious, which equals MORE FUN. Anyone who thinks wasting 30 minutes of travel time to cross zones in WoW was "fun" is crazy. And I don't wanna hear this "less immersive" crap...it's a FANTASY video game...it is not unrealistic to be able to teleport around. Things like waiting in line to kill a boss in EQ1 were ridiculous and BAD game design if you ask me...the big argument now is about EQN and the graphical style...personally I think it looks awesome....reminds me of GW2, which (IMO) is the best MMO out now, so good going!
It has been a known fact for several years now that the average age of gamers is somewhere between 28-35. I firmly believe developers want to shed that image in the worst possible way because to them catering to the older crowd does not equate into long term profits because they feel that when player get older they lose interest in gaming which ofcourse has been proven wrong on so many accounts already. They feel by making our games look like Disney cartoons, more accessible to a larger audience ( which really means lets cater to the 10 year olds ) and dumbing down content just for the sake of sales is the right way to go. Here are just a few examples..
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If what you are saying is really true then all of these gaming companies will eventually go out of business and the only ones that will be in business are companies like CCP. All hardcore gamers will have to do is wait until companies like Activision/Blizz., SOE and EA/Bioware go out of business and then you'll get so many hardcore games you won't have time to play them all.
I thought that GW2 graphics and style looked great. What broke that game for me after 2 weeks was:
No trinity and defined purpose in battles.
Skills bound to weapons, I was forced to use spectre/mace for spells when I wanted to use a Staff.
No inspecting of other players, simple but annoying.
And wasn't GW2 a success?
Yes there is more as to why games fail but their initial intentions are to carter to the much younger crowd.
I can assure you their intention is to cater to people with disposable income and that is certainly not a "younger crowd". And since when is 35 old? Haven't you heard 35 is the new 18.
Welcome to the discussion forums. We discuss stuff here.
Here is your new avatar:
I'm not new here, k thx :P
Also you can discuss things without resorting to sweeping generalizations, derp. As a matter of fact it helps discussion when sweeping generalizations are avoided, go figure
IMHO, there is no massive conspiracy by game MMO developers to create "Cartoony" graphics to get rid of paying customers with disposable income.
OP is clueless. 18-34 used to be the most highly coveted marketing demographic, now in the U.S. baby boomers, (50+) are becoming the popular group to market to. In the biggest emerging market, China, it's 18-24 year olds. Little kids don't have jobs, don't have discretionary/disposable income, and have to go through an extra barrier, (parents), before making a purchase. The idea that game companies would want to market to a less lucrative demographic that statistically plays less games is asinine.
i think its actually to keep the 35 year old gamer. yes the art style of the character models look like disney. But most 35 year olds are mature enough and confident enough to play a game with a children's vibe to it. Where as your 20 somethings might be "too cool" to touch the game.
And there is something else that is appealing to the 35 year olds. 35 year olds tend to have a wife and children. This might be a game he can play with them. I might try to get my wife to play a computer game with me for the very first time.
1. WoW - Cartoonish graphics and character models used to attract the younger crowd and trying to make the game more accessible to younger players. I think at one time the average age of WoW players was 18-19 but I believe that has changed drastically now. Heck most people are leaving this game because Blizzard made WoW super easy to appeal to younger players. Ooops almost forgot to mention pandas!
2. Warhammer Online - Used almost the same art style to accomplish the same goal as Blizzard. They failed miserably.
...
You do realize that WoW's models are based on their Warcraft series, which in turn is largely based on Warhammer's, the tabletop game, figures. Hopefully this one isn't too hard to believe, Warhammer Online's models are also largely based on their own tabletop game.
Your link doesn't include the UK Study, it is just a limited writeup from someone's observations of the actual study. And yes, the link is referring to an actual study, not just a simple poll. I also don't see any referring material to the actual study or survey that the writer is talking about.
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 I could have sworn WoW's graphics style was based on the Warcraft RTS games it was based upon...
You have been warned to keep logic out of these forums... do not force us to call security on you again...
As for the OP, nice try, but a random study about the average age of gamers =/= devs trying to shed the '35 average age"image. There are several technical studies across the web that will explain why a lot of developers choose to work with a stylized art system versus a realistic look. All you have to do is, as you say, google it. For some it's to prevent technical/performance issues across a wide spectrum of hardware configurations. For others its to give a game a look and feel that will last beyond a 4 year average (there was an article about why console game developers were moving away from realistic looking characters based on a study comparing how well graphics in games like Tomb Raider and other PS1 titles held up in years compared to their Mario/Ratchet and Clank counterparts).
Also, to give you more insight, I am 34 years old. My movie preferences are historical dramas, sci-fi and thrillers. I am also a huge comic book geek, love history and cartoons (not a fan of Disney cartoons because they are usually historically inaccurate and their songs are annoying and get stuck in my head....). As a comic and cartoon fan, I prefer more stylized art as it usually conveys more expression than realistic looks.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
OP is clueless. 18-34 used to be the most highly coveted marketing demographic, now in the U.S. baby boomers, (50+) are becoming the popular group to market to. In the biggest emerging market, China, it's 18-24 year olds. Little kids don't have jobs, don't have discretionary/disposable income, and have to go through an extra barrier, (parents), before making a purchase. The idea that game companies would want to market to a less lucrative demographic that statistically plays less games is asinine.
18-34 is *still* the most highly coveted marketing demographic. Old people tend to have more money, but usually spend less and when they do its usually on 'mature' things like vacatons, cars, kids, etc. Young people have less money but almost always spend more. When they do its usually on dates, media, friends, etc. Don't believe me? Find me an 18-34 year old without a smartphone. Good luck with that.
Look sir if you have nothing else better to do but troll these forums, then stop playing MMORPG'S and leave. You are throwing games around espeically EQN likes it's gonna be a piece of shit and the damn game hasn't even gone into closed beta. So watch what you say and go to another site and troll.
Why would a game company want to "get rid" of any profit.
Dunno, let's asking the makers of Darkfall and MO, or any game that tries to sell "leet" with marketing bullets, one way or another.
Sirs?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Actually, it is going away. 45 is the new 35 baybe. Seriously though, older games are going to be where it is at, especially when us people in their 40s hit their 60s and retire. Retired gamers will eventually be big.
Although there are some exceptions the entire business world looks to teenagers and those in their twenties as their preferred market. Antiques don't sell to well to youngsters, gadgets do, you get the idea. This link talks about the purchasing power of this group, how it is moving to prefer buying online and how it pays attention to peer group preferences more then any other age demographic. Ever wondered why Steam and Origin push Friends at you so much, that's why.
The fact is though, that 50ish to 65ish are the biggest spenders as a 15 year category. Perhaps gaming companies assume by that age your gaming is tailing off? What I am certain off is that they see that age group as more fussy and jaded than teens. It is all new for teens, you can use the same old stories and same old gameplay and they won't notice. They will notice the graphics though, so that always needs to gets better.
Originally posted by DamonVile This is just another one of those ..."I stubbed my toe on a rock while looking up so clearly the sky is out to get me " type of " logics "...
Which, coincidentally, is the same logic every game company has used when making their WoW clones. Failures, layoffs, and bankruptcies notwithstanding. Everyone plays WoW and WoW has hand-holding gameplay with no death penalty. Hence everyone must want these. No, in fact, Blizzard spent a lot of advertising dollars to get those customers. Advertising pays; why do you think Geico commercials are everywhere?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
OP - Graphics have nothing to do with the audiences something caters to.
There are TONS of adult only programs, games, videos and graphics that are WAY more cartoony, and in fact straight up cartoons, that are not aimed at all at young populations.
Developers could care less who the intended audience is of a particular game.
Producers and publishers only care about the bottom line, but even they are mainly focused on how to increase attention, not decrease it. In the end, to them it's all about making money, and little kids have a much smaller bank-roll than us more aged (refined) players ^_^
Why in god name would you force away the player base that has the money to spend ? I think it boils down to Devs not wanting to pay artist and actually put in the time to design . It more about margins , imo.
I'm getting so sick of these threads, just stop it already.
Judging the popularity/success of a game by the type of art style and graphics is just misguided to say the least.
I also detest these gross misrepresentations that "cartoony", or stylized graphics are meant to appeal to 10-year olds. I'm sorry, but your average 10-year old is not the target demographic for most MMO's, even one as casual friendly as the current version of WoW.
Additionally, choosing a stylized "cartoony" look is more to due with allowing the game to age better and play on a wider range of machines then it is to cater to "10-year olds".
I like the art style of many of the games you mentioned, and definitely the one chosen for EQN. And I was in my 20's when I started playing UO so, don't give me that crap about older players not liking the art style.
I think it fits perfectly with a Fantasy game and it stimulates imagination. It is clear and flashy and creates immersion in a Fantasy world.
Cartoon, yes, I watch Cartoon even today, are you kidding me? Only someone devout of life, playfulness and imagination would stay away from Cartoons based on the number of the years they have been alive.
Just because your kids like em it doe snot mean that you should not, you know. I suggest, since you want to be playing a Fantasy game set in imaginary worlds with magic and full of unrealistic elements, to throw away your stereotypical and superficial mantle which blinds you. And allow yourself to have fun.
Cheers!
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Originally posted by AG-Vuk Why in god name would you force away the player base that has the money to spend ? I think it boils down to Devs not wanting to pay artist and actually put in the time to design . It more about margins , imo.
Its only forcing away those who would complain about something like the Graphics. I for one will be staying and as an adult myself I will enjoy playing this game and spending money.
Comments
If what you are saying is really true then all of these gaming companies will eventually go out of business and the only ones that will be in business are companies like CCP. All hardcore gamers will have to do is wait until companies like Activision/Blizz., SOE and EA/Bioware go out of business and then you'll get so many hardcore games you won't have time to play them all.
Good luck waiting for that...
I can assure you their intention is to cater to people with disposable income and that is certainly not a "younger crowd". And since when is 35 old? Haven't you heard 35 is the new 18.
I'm not new here, k thx :P
Also you can discuss things without resorting to sweeping generalizations, derp. As a matter of fact it helps discussion when sweeping generalizations are avoided, go figure
IMHO, there is no massive conspiracy by game MMO developers to create "Cartoony" graphics to get rid of paying customers with disposable income.
Thanks for the pic though.
OP is clueless. 18-34 used to be the most highly coveted marketing demographic, now in the U.S. baby boomers, (50+) are becoming the popular group to market to. In the biggest emerging market, China, it's 18-24 year olds. Little kids don't have jobs, don't have discretionary/disposable income, and have to go through an extra barrier, (parents), before making a purchase. The idea that game companies would want to market to a less lucrative demographic that statistically plays less games is asinine.
i love nonsensical opinions. I have a good time laughing at them.
OP, now please tell us that the Squid billies and South Park cater to the 10 year old audience as well.
i think its actually to keep the 35 year old gamer. yes the art style of the character models look like disney. But most 35 year olds are mature enough and confident enough to play a game with a children's vibe to it. Where as your 20 somethings might be "too cool" to touch the game.
And there is something else that is appealing to the 35 year olds. 35 year olds tend to have a wife and children. This might be a game he can play with them. I might try to get my wife to play a computer game with me for the very first time.
You do realize that WoW's models are based on their Warcraft series, which in turn is largely based on Warhammer's, the tabletop game, figures. Hopefully this one isn't too hard to believe, Warhammer Online's models are also largely based on their own tabletop game.
Your link doesn't include the UK Study, it is just a limited writeup from someone's observations of the actual study. And yes, the link is referring to an actual study, not just a simple poll. I also don't see any referring material to the actual study or survey that the writer is talking about.
stickman looks better than the EQN Kerran -- but i agree w you
EQ2 fan sites
You have been warned to keep logic out of these forums... do not force us to call security on you again...
As for the OP, nice try, but a random study about the average age of gamers =/= devs trying to shed the '35 average age"image. There are several technical studies across the web that will explain why a lot of developers choose to work with a stylized art system versus a realistic look. All you have to do is, as you say, google it. For some it's to prevent technical/performance issues across a wide spectrum of hardware configurations. For others its to give a game a look and feel that will last beyond a 4 year average (there was an article about why console game developers were moving away from realistic looking characters based on a study comparing how well graphics in games like Tomb Raider and other PS1 titles held up in years compared to their Mario/Ratchet and Clank counterparts).
Also, to give you more insight, I am 34 years old. My movie preferences are historical dramas, sci-fi and thrillers. I am also a huge comic book geek, love history and cartoons (not a fan of Disney cartoons because they are usually historically inaccurate and their songs are annoying and get stuck in my head....). As a comic and cartoon fan, I prefer more stylized art as it usually conveys more expression than realistic looks.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
18-34 is *still* the most highly coveted marketing demographic. Old people tend to have more money, but usually spend less and when they do its usually on 'mature' things like vacatons, cars, kids, etc. Young people have less money but almost always spend more. When they do its usually on dates, media, friends, etc. Don't believe me? Find me an 18-34 year old without a smartphone. Good luck with that.
There are no facts here!!!! This is Sparta!
Lol.... Okay, a little bit much there.
Dunno, let's asking the makers of Darkfall and MO, or any game that tries to sell "leet" with marketing bullets, one way or another.
Sirs?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Age of Conan:
World of Warcraft:
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Although there are some exceptions the entire business world looks to teenagers and those in their twenties as their preferred market. Antiques don't sell to well to youngsters, gadgets do, you get the idea. This link talks about the purchasing power of this group, how it is moving to prefer buying online and how it pays attention to peer group preferences more then any other age demographic. Ever wondered why Steam and Origin push Friends at you so much, that's why.
http://blogs.position2.com/the-three-major-demographics-for-online-marketers-part-1-marketing-to-the-youtube-generation
The fact is though, that 50ish to 65ish are the biggest spenders as a 15 year category. Perhaps gaming companies assume by that age your gaming is tailing off? What I am certain off is that they see that age group as more fussy and jaded than teens. It is all new for teens, you can use the same old stories and same old gameplay and they won't notice. They will notice the graphics though, so that always needs to gets better.
Which, coincidentally, is the same logic every game company has used when making their WoW clones. Failures, layoffs, and bankruptcies notwithstanding. Everyone plays WoW and WoW has hand-holding gameplay with no death penalty. Hence everyone must want these. No, in fact, Blizzard spent a lot of advertising dollars to get those customers. Advertising pays; why do you think Geico commercials are everywhere?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
OP - Graphics have nothing to do with the audiences something caters to.
There are TONS of adult only programs, games, videos and graphics that are WAY more cartoony, and in fact straight up cartoons, that are not aimed at all at young populations.
Developers could care less who the intended audience is of a particular game.
Producers and publishers only care about the bottom line, but even they are mainly focused on how to increase attention, not decrease it. In the end, to them it's all about making money, and little kids have a much smaller bank-roll than us more aged (refined) players ^_^
I'm getting so sick of these threads, just stop it already.
Judging the popularity/success of a game by the type of art style and graphics is just misguided to say the least.
I also detest these gross misrepresentations that "cartoony", or stylized graphics are meant to appeal to 10-year olds. I'm sorry, but your average 10-year old is not the target demographic for most MMO's, even one as casual friendly as the current version of WoW.
Additionally, choosing a stylized "cartoony" look is more to due with allowing the game to age better and play on a wider range of machines then it is to cater to "10-year olds".
OP I am sorry I do not agree.
I like the art style of many of the games you mentioned, and definitely the one chosen for EQN. And I was in my 20's when I started playing UO so, don't give me that crap about older players not liking the art style.
I think it fits perfectly with a Fantasy game and it stimulates imagination. It is clear and flashy and creates immersion in a Fantasy world.
Cartoon, yes, I watch Cartoon even today, are you kidding me? Only someone devout of life, playfulness and imagination would stay away from Cartoons based on the number of the years they have been alive.
Just because your kids like em it doe snot mean that you should not, you know. I suggest, since you want to be playing a Fantasy game set in imaginary worlds with magic and full of unrealistic elements, to throw away your stereotypical and superficial mantle which blinds you. And allow yourself to have fun.
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Its only forcing away those who would complain about something like the Graphics. I for one will be staying and as an adult myself I will enjoy playing this game and spending money.