Players will be buying just that -- a template. They will get a blueprint of the item/structure/masterpiece and will have to collect the required ingredients themselves in order to actually construct it. Each blueprint will also clearly state what ingredients are necessary to make the item so players will be informed before the purchase.
Royalties in Landmark will also work a bit differently than in the other titles in SOE's portfolio. We already know that if your item is used in the construction of another that is sold, you receive royalties based on the percentage of your item compared to the whole.
Great info there, thanks Nadia. I just wish we had more quality posts like this not the 99% noise we get. I include that in the main post.
I love that so many people are defending SOE in this like they're doing a good thing because you're using their tools, etc.
In NO OTHER part of the world or industry in the world are the "shop" fees or cut that high. Whether you're a sculptor using the shop kiln, a hairdresser at a hair solon using their seats, building, etc, a realtor using an office at re-max, etc
NONE of them have fees that are 60%.
I beg to differ.
Friend of mine at work who's GF rents a chair at a Hairdressers has to pay the owner £50 per day + 50% of her takings from the clients, yes it's mad and yes the woman should just leave but it's a good Hairdresser so she gets valuable contacts when she decides to set-up on her own.
I wouldn't say ppl are defending SoE, they are just being practical. I would imagine that the licensing rights to the software used to create anything would be far too much for most of us to afford, so we are able to access these tools for free. Yes there are others games out there that also allow you to create content, but I can't think of any that will allow you to sell it through them, they will happily make it available for others to use, thus using your creations to extend their own content library, using your hard labour to gain a benefit for no renumeration.
I won't be using this service though, I would like to but I'll be honest and just say I haven't an artistic bone in my body, I can't even draw a stick man well.
Is that because you could earn money doing it? I'd like to see one of your stick men.
some idiots are lapping it up like the morons they are.
It's a free market. If someone is going to upload at that price, you can either match their "offer" or go on another market.
still scams are considered criminal acts, being a free market or not.
and I really think people ehre don't read all the op, the tools you will use are not from sony, possible you will need to buy the program to use (or piracy it with will make most people here hipocrites)
oh well carry on I find funny anyone still thinking EQnext will be any diferent from what we already have and even more to anyone thinking sony have any kind of moral
Sometimes I wish this place was video chat and not a text forum, because the amount of anger and tinfoil hattery here really deserved to be caught on film... or DVD or miniSD or whatever.
People are idiots and morons for wanting to make use of a feature that lets them get paid for the stuff they make in a game they like?
Most MMOs don't let you create anything in the game. Some will create a submission system, and others may give some templates. But the company that gives you templates, a style guide, a submission system and let's you make money off thier game is scamming their players?
And did we really just travel down to Panic-in-the-Streets territory, saying this feature will have people taking up illegal activities they had no inclination to engage in before?
This feature is a moral issue?
All of this over something that the majority of you will never do, even if they gave you 100% of the money.
I vote that we move all future heated debates to Twitch. There's awesome to be had in these discussions.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.
SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.
Are you really saying this is fair?
ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!
Being in the "industry" and working in it myself, I can honestly assure you that 40% is an amazing (and unheard of) share in profits. Most artists (whether it be recording artists, authors, what have you) can expect to receive - at most - around 10% from a company or corporation. If you are really, really good or an established artist/writer/performer/creator, you MIGHT be lucky enough to get 20%. And that's a big maybe - I'm talking you need to be Michael Jackson/Madonna status, etc.
So SOE's 40% offer of shared profits is well beyond the norm - actually, it doesn't even exist! And is VERY generous considering what the rest of the Industry would give you (again around 10%). It might not seem "fair" because its your work. But that's the way it is. You can take it or leave it. Because if you won't...someone else will (and they will)!
Just a little insight from someone who actually works in the Industry.
Blender and Gimp are free, I have used them for years. FREE, as in NO CHARGE. Both are very good and functional programs.
Name a game that let's you create items for use in a game....
I'm waiting....
Now name one that let's you make money off of your creations....
Still waiting....
Now name an indie program that let's you make a share of the profits over 15%...
Unless you write a Novel for Amazon, Smashwords, or Apple iBooks or develop a video game from scratch you are SOL. Amazon is the only company who let's you get anything over 60%, and that is for full length Novels priced at 2.99 or higher. They have an amazing plan, trust me, I know=)
That's what this is, an Indie program. They give you the platform to make a profit, it's very simple. I see this as Sony's acceptance of Indie designers. Not only have they opened the doors for Indie Game designers, and Author's, they are also opening the door for indie Graphic Designers. What better way of finding diamonds in the rough than giving them a platform to perform on.
This is a Win/Win, anyone who thinks otherwise should just go pray to your Microsoft gods of ultimate control.
Georgeson and Butler have also expanded on Landmark's in-game currency and real money economies, which will touch every aspect of play.
Most notably, SOE's Player Studio will become a cash marketplace for player-gathered resources, plots of real estate on Landmark's servers, and player-designed building templates, which other players can buy and plop onto their land.
Originally posted by Dauntis Hmm... I wonder how much an art asset designer makes working for a game company. I bet it is a whole lot less than 40% of the sales per item.
it is, trust me
lol a guy who makes simple helmets in team fortress 2 gets like 100k for each one.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.
SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.
Are you really saying this is fair?
ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!
Without the modders SOE would have nothing, ZERO, to sell and could not benefit from all the assets that will keep the game fresh and alive making profit for them, bringing new people that play and generally keeping the game alive.
I think modders deserve more than 40%
.....I think SOE is paying modders too little. You are disagreeing with that, but there is no need to lash out at me for having a different opinion.
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Art galleries take 50% cut from every painting sold. And we are talking paintings where artist invested money in materials himself.
Same here, if you read my OP and the FAQ on the SOE site you knew that the Artist has to provide everything. SOE is just there waiting for the content to come in, review it then make 60% of the sales.
And thats RL
Yupp and that is what makes this 60/40 deal so unfair in my view. Let's compare it since i have heard the Art gallery comparison a few times now.
Art gallery cost: rent, utilities, security, catering (vernissage), marketing, reviewing of the art.
SOE cost: pretty much the same things except catering and rent (unless you use their offices to create the art which you clearly do not).
Do you really think that SOE has higher cost than an Art gallery, you seriously think it's more expensive to do this virtually rather than in real life?
I don't think so, i really don't. But that was just to show you where i am coming from, if modders and artists in real life are happy with these deals then that is their decision not mine.
Originally posted by Malacth
Just to put things into perspective;
Authors write the book, but only get 10-20% royalties, while publishers get 80-90%. And that's pretty much 100% of the authors work. Yes, the publishers promote and put marketing into the book, otherwise it wouldn't sell at all, but isn't that also what SOE is doing with them putting your creations on their site? Otherwise no one would see it and you'd get paid ZILCH!
I don't think you can compare printing a book, ....
You keep using words like "fair" and "deserve" and "compare", and what you "think" modders "should" get. And you underline and capitalize and punctuate as if you were outraged and offended by the 40% number.
I think that's displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Thankfully, one beauty of markets is they only react to the opinions of those participating in the transactions.
The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit. That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work". There's nothing to be outraged about. SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.
Originally posted by Dihoru The only noise I see is the OP trying to justify a lobsided, narrowminded and generally subjective point of view by bending over backwards in ways that would make a yoga guru blush just to prove his point (which is somehow that making shit in a game based on a IP that isn't yours, whom you aren't employed in making and who has nothing more to do with you than being a customer of it, makes you entitled to a larger cut of profits from the game than the developers, generously, give you, christ next you'll tell us EVE-Online players should be getting paid for supplying dynamic content).
Hold on a minute there, son . . .
So after accusing me of having an agenda against SOE:
Originally posted by Dihoru Now arguing with the OP is pointless because this thread isn't made for discussion merely either for the furthering of an agenda or misdirected hatred for a developer.
Accusing me of breaking and bending facts:
Originally posted by Dihoru I came to this conclusion by you bending and breaking objective facts to fit your own opinion.
You are now calling me lobsided, narrowminded and subjective. While also saying i a feel entitled and want to make more profit when i CLEARLY STATE IN MY OP AND IN ALL REPLIES TO YOU that i am not a modder and i don't want to create any content.
Seriously, please leave this thread alone if you do not have anything constructive to say about this topic other than attacking me.
The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit. That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work". There's nothing to be outraged about. SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.
And Rebel Leaders will attempt to drum up some righteous indignant outrage, and the witch hunt will (or not) happen.
But we get an "OMG Evils of EvilCorp" thread on this site roughly six times a day. Probably not a very good spot to whip up a mob.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think SOE is too bold to try something like this that could make players really rich and SOE get only 60%. As long as the player creation market isn't too bloated with junk or is terrible to navigate, for players that love to constantly create stuff this is going to be quite lucrative for them.
You keep using words like "fair" and "deserve" and "compare", and what you "think" modders "should" get. And you underline and capitalize and punctuate as if you were outraged and offended by the 40% number.
Your observation is correct in so far as i already said many times incl. my OP that i think 40% is too little. I think a 60/40 would be nicer for the modders. Now you can argue against that if you want and i welcome you to do so.
Just pointing out what i said however does not seem to server any purpose.
I think that's displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Thankfully, one beauty of markets is they only react to the opinions of those participating in the transactions.
Not going to argue economics on a simple topic like this. I will just say that i will participate in that market by probably not buying overpriced Assets if SOE puts a 60% premium on them.
We shall see how much they really cost, at this point it is all speculation and we heard from posters that actually add to the discussion as opposed to you that there might be a different revenue model behind this.
The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit. That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work". There's nothing to be outraged about. SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.
I agree, nothing to be outraged about. In the end i will maybe buy some of those assets or not. Never said SOE is greedy or brought moral into it. It's what it is.
An SoE employee makes the newest cool looking sword for the marketplace. I wonder if they see 40% of the sales from that item?
Personally, if I can find a way to make money while doing something I would have anyways, using tools that aren't mine... Nope, no problem at all and 40% sounds great.
"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits" -Sony Online Entertainment
"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Name a game that let's you create items for use in a game....
I'm waiting....
Team Fortress 2, Dota 2 to name just two on top of my head.
Now name one that let's you make money off of your creations....
Still waiting....
Team fortress creators usually get 100k or more for community items amongst other perks like a unique one time item that usually sells to collectors for a few thousand.
Now name an indie program that let's you make a share of the profits over 15%...
That's what this is, an Indie program. They give you the platform to make a profit, it's very simple. I see this as Sony's acceptance of Indie designers. Not only have they opened the doors for Indie Game designers, and Author's, they are also opening the door for indie Graphic Designers. What better way of finding diamonds in the rough than giving them a platform to perform on.
Indie is the future baby, get used to it.
What this has to do with indie games is beyond my understanding, sorry, wrong thread maybe?
"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits" -Sony Online Entertainment
"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius
This thread in a nutshell. If SoE offered nothing there would be no problem, but they pay you to have fun and it's not enough? I love this group of people.
SWTOR Referral Bonus! Referral link 7 day subscriber level access Returning players get 1 free server transfer
"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits" -Sony Online Entertainment
"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius
Originally posted by Aelious An SoE employee makes the newest cool looking sword for the marketplace. I wonder if they see 40% of the sales from that item?
So we are now all employed by SOE and get a monthly paycheck when we buy the game? Because if we don't than you just made the most retarded argument i have yet seen in this thread.
Originally posted by FlyByKnight
"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits" -Sony Online Entertainment
"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius
That would be ridiculous, 100% of the profits, outrageous! Haha, good one, you crack me up!
However, how is this adding to the topic? Please, in the future, stay on topic.
MMORPGs are supossed to be fun, not work. With that said, i would rather create some content and get 40% of the profit than grinding never ending raids for gear because thats all we have...
Originally posted by Dihoru The only noise I see is the OP trying to justify a lobsided, narrowminded and generally subjective point of view by bending over backwards in ways that would make a yoga guru blush just to prove his point (which is somehow that making shit in a game based on a IP that isn't yours, whom you aren't employed in making and who has nothing more to do with you than being a customer of it, makes you entitled to a larger cut of profits from the game than the developers, generously, give you, christ next you'll tell us EVE-Online players should be getting paid for supplying dynamic content).
Hold on a minute there, son . . .
So after accusing me of having an agenda against SOE:
Originally posted by Dihoru Now arguing with the OP is pointless because this thread isn't made for discussion merely either for the furthering of an agenda or misdirected hatred for a developer.
Accusing me of breaking and bending facts:
Originally posted by Dihoru I came to this conclusion by you bending and breaking objective facts to fit your own opinion.
You are now calling me lobsided, narrowminded and subjective. While also saying i a feel entitled and want to make more profit when i CLEARLY STATE IN MY OP AND IN ALL REPLIES TO YOU that i am not a modder and i don't want to create any content.
Seriously, please leave this thread alone if you do not have anything constructive to say about this topic other than attacking me.
Thank you.
I was giving you the benefit of a doubt but now I just see you're not even outraged, you're picking at straws trying to see what happens. Btw attacks go something like "I think the OP is a mouth drooling moron" not "I think the OP is being generally human" but then again you do seem like the person to miss the forest while looking at the trees.
Considering you're not a modder, never have even been one, considering you have no interest in creating content (which means you will also not play this game because otherwise anything you do in a sandbox could potentially be content) and considering this topic is at best a tangential interest of yours in which you prove a completely lack of understanding for it lets just call it a day and cool off before you ruin your reputation on the forums (no quicker way to do that than to look like a dedicated savant in math critiquing classical poetry).
I am glad we cleared that up to your liking, please stay away.
So, people that would probably do this anyway, for free, because they enjoy doing things like modding, have the chance to also get some money and you think it's wrong that they get 40%, instead of the 0% they would get usually.
These are not people quitting their jobs to make a living from selling their assets in SOE games. It's aimed at people that would do this anyway, for free, because they enjoy it.
Do they also hope that these people make more art assets than they usually would, without getting any money? Probably, but it is still a reward for an activity some find fun to do in their free time, that usually has no financial gain for the creator.
There's no need to call names OP, unless you don't think your point stands on its own. You made my point for me. We aren't employees and can leave without notice taking our "trade" with us. Employees are contracted more or less to stay for a period of time and devote themselves for a paycheck working on what ever they are given.
My point is this: say a dev spends 10 hours making one sword that sells 1000 times for 5.00. That's 5000.00 or 500.00 an hour. You really think thy dev will get 2000.00 in return, 200.00 an hour?
Comments
Is that because you could earn money doing it? I'd like to see one of your stick men.
Sometimes I wish this place was video chat and not a text forum, because the amount of anger and tinfoil hattery here really deserved to be caught on film... or DVD or miniSD or whatever.
People are idiots and morons for wanting to make use of a feature that lets them get paid for the stuff they make in a game they like?
Most MMOs don't let you create anything in the game. Some will create a submission system, and others may give some templates. But the company that gives you templates, a style guide, a submission system and let's you make money off thier game is scamming their players?
And did we really just travel down to Panic-in-the-Streets territory, saying this feature will have people taking up illegal activities they had no inclination to engage in before?
This feature is a moral issue?
All of this over something that the majority of you will never do, even if they gave you 100% of the money.
I vote that we move all future heated debates to Twitch. There's awesome to be had in these discussions.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Being in the "industry" and working in it myself, I can honestly assure you that 40% is an amazing (and unheard of) share in profits. Most artists (whether it be recording artists, authors, what have you) can expect to receive - at most - around 10% from a company or corporation. If you are really, really good or an established artist/writer/performer/creator, you MIGHT be lucky enough to get 20%. And that's a big maybe - I'm talking you need to be Michael Jackson/Madonna status, etc.
So SOE's 40% offer of shared profits is well beyond the norm - actually, it doesn't even exist! And is VERY generous considering what the rest of the Industry would give you (again around 10%). It might not seem "fair" because its your work. But that's the way it is. You can take it or leave it. Because if you won't...someone else will (and they will)!
Just a little insight from someone who actually works in the Industry.
Blender and Gimp are free, I have used them for years. FREE, as in NO CHARGE. Both are very good and functional programs.
Name a game that let's you create items for use in a game....
I'm waiting....
Now name one that let's you make money off of your creations....
Still waiting....
Now name an indie program that let's you make a share of the profits over 15%...
Unless you write a Novel for Amazon, Smashwords, or Apple iBooks or develop a video game from scratch you are SOL. Amazon is the only company who let's you get anything over 60%, and that is for full length Novels priced at 2.99 or higher. They have an amazing plan, trust me, I know=)
That's what this is, an Indie program. They give you the platform to make a profit, it's very simple. I see this as Sony's acceptance of Indie designers. Not only have they opened the doors for Indie Game designers, and Author's, they are also opening the door for indie Graphic Designers. What better way of finding diamonds in the rough than giving them a platform to perform on.
This is a Win/Win, anyone who thinks otherwise should just go pray to your Microsoft gods of ultimate control.
Indie is the future baby, get used to it.
im still waiting to hear more details
PC Gamer interview, Nov 11
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/11/everquest-next-landmark-is-gurps-for-mmos/
Georgeson and Butler have also expanded on Landmark's in-game currency and real money economies, which will touch every aspect of play.
Most notably, SOE's Player Studio will become a cash marketplace for player-gathered resources, plots of real estate on Landmark's servers, and player-designed building templates, which other players can buy and plop onto their land.
EQ2 fan sites
lol a guy who makes simple helmets in team fortress 2 gets like 100k for each one.
You keep using words like "fair" and "deserve" and "compare", and what you "think" modders "should" get. And you underline and capitalize and punctuate as if you were outraged and offended by the 40% number.
I think that's displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Thankfully, one beauty of markets is they only react to the opinions of those participating in the transactions.
The correct value is simply the sweetspot that maximizes SOE's profit. That is what modders "deserve", and it is determined by the marketplace, not by whether SOE is "greedy" or "moral" or "fair" or any other judgemental term or whether you think they do "0% of the work". There's nothing to be outraged about. SOE will either raise or lower the number based on data, not morality.
Hold on a minute there, son . . .
So after accusing me of having an agenda against SOE:
Accusing me of breaking and bending facts:
You are now calling me lobsided, narrowminded and subjective. While also saying i a feel entitled and want to make more profit when i CLEARLY STATE IN MY OP AND IN ALL REPLIES TO YOU that i am not a modder and i don't want to create any content.
Seriously, please leave this thread alone if you do not have anything constructive to say about this topic other than attacking me.
Thank you.
And Rebel Leaders will attempt to drum up some righteous indignant outrage, and the witch hunt will (or not) happen.
But we get an "OMG Evils of EvilCorp" thread on this site roughly six times a day. Probably not a very good spot to whip up a mob.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Personally, if I can find a way to make money while doing something I would have anyways, using tools that aren't mine... Nope, no problem at all and 40% sounds great.
"Hi, I have a player base of a millions. If you make some good optional content for it, I'll give you a 40% revenue share of the profits" -Sony Online Entertainment
"That's not fair, I should get 100% because I'm too dense to realize the part about the million+ player base and me not owning any copyrights of the title. What a scam" -MMORPG Genius
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This thread in a nutshell. If SoE offered nothing there would be no problem, but they pay you to have fun and it's not enough? I love this group of people.
SWTOR Referral Bonus!
Referral link
7 day subscriber level access
Returning players get 1 free server transfer
Leveling assistance items given to new player!
See all perks Here
+1
http://www.teamfortress.com/contribute/legal.php
You mentioned one time items that sell for much more, care to elaborate as I'm not familiar. Links would be great.
MMORPGs are supossed to be fun, not work. With that said, i would rather create some content and get 40% of the profit than grinding never ending raids for gear because thats all we have...
I am glad we cleared that up to your liking, please stay away.
So, people that would probably do this anyway, for free, because they enjoy doing things like modding, have the chance to also get some money and you think it's wrong that they get 40%, instead of the 0% they would get usually.
These are not people quitting their jobs to make a living from selling their assets in SOE games. It's aimed at people that would do this anyway, for free, because they enjoy it.
Do they also hope that these people make more art assets than they usually would, without getting any money? Probably, but it is still a reward for an activity some find fun to do in their free time, that usually has no financial gain for the creator.
My point is this: say a dev spends 10 hours making one sword that sells 1000 times for 5.00. That's 5000.00 or 500.00 an hour. You really think thy dev will get 2000.00 in return, 200.00 an hour?