I'm sorry but to all those claiming 3 faction PvP works, Mark Jacobs himself has stated (Mark Jacobs is the founder of Mythic and creator of DAoC) that in order for 3 faction PvP to work PvE must be taken out - completely. Or, to put it differently, you cannot build a PvP game on top of a PvE game.
Check out one of his video updates/posts in his Camelot Unchained site. When you build a game around PvP and you force advancement through PvE all sorts of bad things happen.
Exactly what I thought when I watched the video. Not saying that is a bad thing though. Yet one more thing that leaves me on the fence about this game. Man, I want it to be good!
You two must be kidding or very young with no past history knowledge of mmos. The 3 faction pvp/rvr style with all the siege and keep takes is from Dark Ages of Camelot; the original game that developed the idea. It is also where one of the lead developers came from. He designed the original.
I'm sorry but to all those claiming 3 faction PvP works, Mark Jacobs himself has stated (Mark Jacobs is the founder of Mythic and creator of DAoC) that in order for 3 faction PvP to work PvE must be taken out - completely. Or, to put it differently, you cannot build a PvP game on top of a PvE game.
Check out one of his video updates/posts in his Camelot Unchained site. When you build a game around PvP and you force advancement through PvE all sorts of bad things happen.
That isn't exactly true. DAoC separated most pvp and pve but not entirely. There were pve targets in pve zones and you could pve there but it was dangerous and you also could pvp in pve zones like Darkness Falls. You had options. You could stay in total pvp zones or in total pve zones and level either way without ever having to go to a zone type you didn't like or you could sprinkle a little of one in the other. What he meant was you can't build and balance for pve then throw pvp in later as an afterthought or vice versa. To be successful both must be in it and balanced from the beginning. However note DAoC never did balance for one on one but instead balanced for groups and told the solo whiners tough noogies and I hope they do again. This is a mmorg not solo xbox.
Sorry, not feeling it at all. Is this suppose to be like Skyrim or a PvP FFA slugfest? If it weren't pointed out that it was a TESO trailer I would of never guessed it was TESO. *sigh* I wish Bethesda the best of luck, of course they will sale a ton of copies, the most important part is how many will keep playing 4 months after release. I've got a gut feeling that this will become like the Diablo 2 Vs Diablo 3 fiasco, but in this instance Skyrim Vs TESO. Won't be trying it out, so I won't be part of the drama. Best of luck to all those going to play it.
To be honest I don't like World vs World vs World because often happens like World World vs WORLD which happen to my server in Gw2 During the night One of this 2 servers where defending Their and 3rd opponent side and if you study match results in long run you will see that when this 2 servers together in match they always take 1 and 2 place always !!!
but when they are apart one of them are barely second place. Another thing that prove this is that after First place server is far far away with points at the middle of the week suddenly second place server is holding all Tower why? do make sure that our server come last at 3rd place with no chance .... yeah.
So I would like WORLD VS WORLD with 300 players from each server than World vs WORLD WORLD 100 vs 200
Also if commander will have like in gw2 a Tag on map to make double teaming is very easy all you need is to ask few commanders on your server to migrate to enemy server and to lead horde of idiots against the success of their own server
you see 3 fraction PVP is to easy to mess up its very unfair
I'm sorry but to all those claiming 3 faction PvP works, Mark Jacobs himself has stated (Mark Jacobs is the founder of Mythic and creator of DAoC) that in order for 3 faction PvP to work PvE must be taken out - completely. Or, to put it differently, you cannot build a PvP game on top of a PvE game.
Check out one of his video updates/posts in his Camelot Unchained site. When you build a game around PvP and you force advancement through PvE all sorts of bad things happen.
That is the biggest load of nonsense I have seen on this forum lately. First off, Mark Jacobs is a lawyer who transitioned to the games industry. Taking his word for anything is really shaky.
DAoC was a PVP game built on a PVE game. It worked great until they made an expansion that provided superior pvp powers to people who completed a long pve quest chain. PVP only works if there is relative balance. DAoC was an extremely fun game prior to that and I am not a good pvper. The classes I leveled up were at the low end of pvp abilities. I still had loads of fun.
That is exactly why his Camelot Unchained game is not going to be the great success that Mark Jacobs thinks. He still does not get it.
Originally posted by Teala I bet the hold the NDA right up until release day.
ahyup. granola girl nailed it.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I'm sorry but to all those claiming 3 faction PvP works, Mark Jacobs himself has stated (Mark Jacobs is the founder of Mythic and creator of DAoC) that in order for 3 faction PvP to work PvE must be taken out - completely. Or, to put it differently, you cannot build a PvP game on top of a PvE game.
Check out one of his video updates/posts in his Camelot Unchained site. When you build a game around PvP and you force advancement through PvE all sorts of bad things happen.
That is the biggest load of nonsense I have seen on this forum lately. First off, Mark Jacobs is a lawyer who transitioned to the games industry. Taking his word for anything is really shaky.
DAoC was a PVP game built on a PVE game. It worked great until they made an expansion that provided superior pvp powers to people who completed a long pve quest chain. PVP only works if there is relative balance. DAoC was an extremely fun game prior to that and I am not a good pvper. The classes I leveled up were at the low end of pvp abilities. I still had loads of fun.
That is exactly why his Camelot Unchained game is not going to be the great success that Mark Jacobs thinks. He still does not get it.
okay, now you're just off in lalaland. i get that CU will probly be mediocre or niche at best.
but your best argument boils down to this?
he was a lawyer ... and the creative team made a bad decision how long ago?
nevermind that he founded Mythic.
and was one of the primary creative forces behind DAoC.
those points mean nothing because more than a decade ago he transitioned from being a lawyer to a game developer.
oh and he clearly knows nothing about game design...[mod edit]
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I'm sorry but to all those claiming 3 faction PvP works, Mark Jacobs himself has stated (Mark Jacobs is the founder of Mythic and creator of DAoC) that in order for 3 faction PvP to work PvE must be taken out - completely. Or, to put it differently, you cannot build a PvP game on top of a PvE game.
Check out one of his video updates/posts in his Camelot Unchained site. When you build a game around PvP and you force advancement through PvE all sorts of bad things happen.
That is the biggest load of nonsense I have seen on this forum lately. First off, Mark Jacobs is a lawyer who transitioned to the games industry. Taking his word for anything is really shaky.
DAoC was a PVP game built on a PVE game. It worked great until they made an expansion that provided superior pvp powers to people who completed a long pve quest chain. PVP only works if there is relative balance. DAoC was an extremely fun game prior to that and I am not a good pvper. The classes I leveled up were at the low end of pvp abilities. I still had loads of fun.
That is exactly why his Camelot Unchained game is not going to be the great success that Mark Jacobs thinks. He still does not get it.
okay, now you're just off in lalaland. i get that CU will probly be mediocre or niche at best.
but your best argument boils down to this?
he was a lawyer ... and the creative team made a bad decision how long ago?
nevermind that he founded Mythic.
and was one of the primary creative forces behind DAoC.
those points mean nothing because more than a decade ago he transitioned from being a lawyer to a game developer.
oh and he clearly knows nothing about game design..[mod edit]
Well when you are a one hit wonder that he is and you personally destroyed that one hit with your changes what does that suggest? Everything else he was involved in flopped. Being a lawyer or an ex Baseball pitcher does not indicate great game design skills. His staff had more to do with the initial success of DAoC than he did.
The point is three faction pvp works and works well as long as balance is maintained. We will just have to wait and see if Matt Frior remembers this important fact.
As to pve, you need good pve to pay for the game, pvpers are not the vast majority that play these games, pvers are. You have to remember that this is not a charity for gamers, someone has to fork over money to pay for a MMO. Which is another reason Mr. Jacobs new game will be on life support soon after release. He just does not get it when it comes to game design and making a game pay for itself.
Comments
I'm sorry but to all those claiming 3 faction PvP works, Mark Jacobs himself has stated (Mark Jacobs is the founder of Mythic and creator of DAoC) that in order for 3 faction PvP to work PvE must be taken out - completely. Or, to put it differently, you cannot build a PvP game on top of a PvE game.
Check out one of his video updates/posts in his Camelot Unchained site. When you build a game around PvP and you force advancement through PvE all sorts of bad things happen.
You two must be kidding or very young with no past history knowledge of mmos. The 3 faction pvp/rvr style with all the siege and keep takes is from Dark Ages of Camelot; the original game that developed the idea. It is also where one of the lead developers came from. He designed the original.
That isn't exactly true. DAoC separated most pvp and pve but not entirely. There were pve targets in pve zones and you could pve there but it was dangerous and you also could pvp in pve zones like Darkness Falls. You had options. You could stay in total pvp zones or in total pve zones and level either way without ever having to go to a zone type you didn't like or you could sprinkle a little of one in the other. What he meant was you can't build and balance for pve then throw pvp in later as an afterthought or vice versa. To be successful both must be in it and balanced from the beginning. However note DAoC never did balance for one on one but instead balanced for groups and told the solo whiners tough noogies and I hope they do again. This is a mmorg not solo xbox.
To be honest I don't like World vs World vs World because often happens like World World vs WORLD which happen to my server in Gw2 During the night One of this 2 servers where defending Their and 3rd opponent side and if you study match results in long run you will see that when this 2 servers together in match they always take 1 and 2 place always !!!
but when they are apart one of them are barely second place. Another thing that prove this is that after First place server is far far away with points at the middle of the week suddenly second place server is holding all Tower why? do make sure that our server come last at 3rd place with no chance .... yeah.
So I would like WORLD VS WORLD with 300 players from each server than World vs WORLD WORLD 100 vs 200
Also if commander will have like in gw2 a Tag on map to make double teaming is very easy all you need is to ask few commanders on your server to migrate to enemy server and to lead horde of idiots against the success of their own server
you see 3 fraction PVP is to easy to mess up its very unfair
That is the biggest load of nonsense I have seen on this forum lately. First off, Mark Jacobs is a lawyer who transitioned to the games industry. Taking his word for anything is really shaky.
DAoC was a PVP game built on a PVE game. It worked great until they made an expansion that provided superior pvp powers to people who completed a long pve quest chain. PVP only works if there is relative balance. DAoC was an extremely fun game prior to that and I am not a good pvper. The classes I leveled up were at the low end of pvp abilities. I still had loads of fun.
That is exactly why his Camelot Unchained game is not going to be the great success that Mark Jacobs thinks. He still does not get it.
ahyup. granola girl nailed it.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
okay, now you're just off in lalaland. i get that CU will probly be mediocre or niche at best.
but your best argument boils down to this?
he was a lawyer ... and the creative team made a bad decision how long ago?
nevermind that he founded Mythic.
and was one of the primary creative forces behind DAoC.
those points mean nothing because more than a decade ago he transitioned from being a lawyer to a game developer.
oh and he clearly knows nothing about game design...[mod edit]
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Why would you even bring that hack into any conversation?
He destroyed a good PvP game by making the boring PvE mandatory in order to remain PvP viable, which made the PvPers leave in droves.
Now was that Warhammer or DAOC I'm thinking of?
O yeah it was both of them. That guy takes good things and makes them worse. Time to hang up the gaming hat and get into demolition if you ask me.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
Well when you are a one hit wonder that he is and you personally destroyed that one hit with your changes what does that suggest? Everything else he was involved in flopped. Being a lawyer or an ex Baseball pitcher does not indicate great game design skills. His staff had more to do with the initial success of DAoC than he did.
The point is three faction pvp works and works well as long as balance is maintained. We will just have to wait and see if Matt Frior remembers this important fact.
As to pve, you need good pve to pay for the game, pvpers are not the vast majority that play these games, pvers are. You have to remember that this is not a charity for gamers, someone has to fork over money to pay for a MMO. Which is another reason Mr. Jacobs new game will be on life support soon after release. He just does not get it when it comes to game design and making a game pay for itself.