Things like this are making me change my mind and consider this game. I was able to get a code for this weekend (thanks mmorpg.com) and am anxious to check it out now. I really hope they can manage to make this system successful without ever implementing an AH.
Totally in favor of this system. As an old school EQ player, one of the reasons EQ died was the addition of the auction house as it reduced the interaction between players. The east commons tunnel was the E'ci trading spot. On weekends you would find 50 to 100+ players hawking their items. I made many in game friends through this process as we haggled over items.
Anything which puts more player interaction into the game is a huge plus in my opinion. Auction channel is a must. The players will work out the rest.
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
This is the best idea ever! Choose a place to put down your vendor at, even outside cities. Protect them with a mercenary (part of the skill line or the ones you can buy in cyrodiil) if they are not inside a city/safe zone. I like it!
If not, then allow the players to set up their own stall, but they actually have to be there to accept trade offers or barter, not just AFK like in other games... So, if people interact with the stall, they can see what the player has up for sale/for crafting and their asking price.
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
You Sir, win the thread !!!!
I agree, I also think all the crafting disciplines should have their own skill lines (Blacksmithing, Alchemy, Clothing, Woodworking, Provisioning) that way someone who TRULY wants to be a good crafter will have to base their character around it rather than it just being a side activity. Any character would be able to craft or fight, but players would have to choose whether to dedicate their character to one or the other. I've always loved the idea of crafting being like a full time occupation for a character.
All the crafting disciplines already have their own skill lines with very good choices of passives in there It´s wonderful.
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
This is the best idea ever! Choose a place to put down your vendor at, even outside cities. Protect them with a mercenary (part of the skill line or the ones you can buy in cyrodiil) if they are not inside a city/safe zone. I like it!
If not, then allow the players to set up their own stall, but they actually have to be there to accept trade offers or barter, not just AFK like in other games... So, if people interact with the stall, they can see what the player has up for sale/for crafting and their asking price.
I guess you didn't play Aion or any number of Asian MMOs, seas of vendors as far as the eye could see. Horrible in practice. What vendor is going to sit there for their n hour gaming session waiting for a punter to barter with? Trading posts work because they are un obtrusive and efficient. I'm all for exploring other solutions but they have to fundamentally work.
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
This is the best idea ever! Choose a place to put down your vendor at, even outside cities. Protect them with a mercenary (part of the skill line or the ones you can buy in cyrodiil) if they are not inside a city/safe zone. I like it!
If not, then allow the players to set up their own stall, but they actually have to be there to accept trade offers or barter, not just AFK like in other games... So, if people interact with the stall, they can see what the player has up for sale/for crafting and their asking price.
I guess you didn't play Aion or any number of Asian MMOs, seas of vendors as far as the eye could see. Horrible in practice. What vendor is going to sit there for their n hour gaming session waiting for a punter to barter with? Trading posts work because they are un obtrusive and efficient. I'm all for exploring other solutions but they have to fundamentally work.
Aw... Fine, then just spawning their vendor somewhere. :P Oh well, might just be me, but I´d love to be able to spawn a little table with a list of my wares and try to attracts customers, like traditional markets
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
You Sir, win the thread !!!!
I agree, I also think all the crafting disciplines should have their own skill lines (Blacksmithing, Alchemy, Clothing, Woodworking, Provisioning) that way someone who TRULY wants to be a good crafter will have to base their character around it rather than it just being a side activity. Any character would be able to craft or fight, but players would have to choose whether to dedicate their character to one or the other. I've always loved the idea of crafting being like a full time occupation for a character.
All the crafting disciplines already have their own skill lines with very good choices of passives in there It´s wonderful.
Man, I can't believe I didn't notice that sooner, I've worked it out and to acquire all the USEFULL skills in the blacksmithing line will use up about 15 points (23 for every skill in the line but some of those just help you advance your smithing quicker). The only problem is that though you can only get 49 skill points through leveling you can get 85 extra skill points through finding every Sky Shard. This is unfortunate for me because it leaves too many skill points for people to use and means you don't have to really specialize. In short, too many skill points for skill lines too have any significant meaning, it's one of my issues with the game. That said, since each skill line takes up about 20-25 skill points each being good at more than 1 crafting skill will require you to take points away from combat skills. I still think there are too many skill points on offer, once the guides detailing the exact locations of every Skyshard come out (which they inevitably will) then gaining all those extra points will be ridiculously easy.
There's a simple way to solve the auction house problem
there should be a system where players can leave their character in Merchant mode
like put what you want in your Merchant bag then switch to Merchant mode and it will log you out
but people will see your character in game with some kind of bag or thing in front of you and interact with you and buy
Note : this mechanic is from an game called "Dofus"
if its used in Dofus then they copied it from Everquest, as thats the method used in that game, and that was at least a decade ago, oddly enough, this came about because Everquest players complained about the lack of trading features in the game. It worked pretty well so i'm not surprised it was copied by other games.
I must say that their idea for buying and selling is somewhat innovative and interesting. It's going to fail miserably of course, but it is rather heroic of them to try it.
As for a single AH not working with millions of items? It does in EVE and the technology that EVE started with is way behind the hardware/software that could be used today. So, yes, they could build an AH, they simply don't want to.
As I said above, it is an interesting idea, but I think that all the problems pointed out in the article are just the tip of the iceberg.
I must say that their idea for buying and selling is somewhat innovative and interesting. It's going to fail miserably of course, but it is rather heroic of them to try it.
As for a single AH not working with millions of items? It does in EVE and the technology that EVE started with is way behind the hardware/software that could be used today. So, yes, they could build an AH, they simply don't want to.
As I said above, it is an interesting idea, but I think that all the problems pointed out in the article are just the tip of the iceberg.
^^^^^^^^^^ This
EvE had gazillions of items on regional auctions almost a decade ago when broadband meant 50k a second and 256mb was a LOT of RAM on your 600Mhz single core processor.
The clash will be PvE players either getting in the way of or resenting (or likely both) the PvP focussed trade areas.
This game is almost deliberately setting up for a clash of PvE and PvP players.
In terms of "hardcore" attitude? PvP will win.
In terms of subs number? PvE will win... it always does - it won't even be a close contest.
PvE players trying to fill guilds or realizing that they have to form PvP guilds to take these special areas.
You know what? They won't bother, they'll cancel their subs and moan at Zenimax, who, in turn will bow to pressure and put in either player shops (my preferred option) or an AH (not something I want - too generic, not personal enough)
Ah yes the fun to have the chat channels SPAMMED with buying and selling. I so wanted that back....
NOT
Sorry, but the lack of an AH is THE singlemost moronic idea of this game. It WAY overpowers some of the power-guilds and makes the already strong ones even stronger. It eliminated the meaningful existence of small, family sized guilds. It leaves a lot of crafter focusssed gamers in the rain, having to struggle to sell their crafted goods. It makes is a pointless hassle to find what you want to buy for NO REASON AT ALL.
Who will go to some faraway keep in Cyrodiil, totally unknowing whether or not that store is there and what that store even sells? SWG had at least a central search function, so you could find what you want and then go to the store. TESO needs at least a central serach function as SWG did.
If the game had player cities with player shops, it would have made sense. But like this it is just pointless player harassment, making things different for the mere sake of different. Great, so the round wheel was too familar, so we invented an angular wheel. Whoohoo progress!
Most absurd and wrong decision in a MMO EVER!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
To have player shops instead of auction houses is a great idea. I enjoyed it in SWG, the different crafters and shops where one thing that really distinguished the MMO from an SinglePlayer RPG. And it was a completely different experience compared to newer games like WOW.
But on the other side, making this only available within a guild and even linking it to PVP is imo completely stupid and might destroy a good decision.
Ah yes the fun to have the chat channels SPAMMED with buying and selling. I so wanted that back....
NOT
Sorry, but the lack of an AH is THE singlemost moronic idea of this game. It WAY overpowers some of the power-guilds and makes the already strong ones even stronger. It eliminated the meaningful existence of small, family sized guilds. It leaves a lot of crafter focusssed gamers in the rain, having to struggle to sell their crafted goods. It makes is a pointless hassle to find what you want to buy for NO REASON AT ALL.
Who will go to some faraway keep in Cyrodiil, totally unknowing whether or not that store is there and what that store even sells? SWG had at least a central search function, so you could find what you want and then go to the store. TESO needs at least a central serach function as SWG did.
If the game had player cities with player shops, it would have made sense. But like this it is just pointless player harassment, making things different for the mere sake of different. Great, so the round wheel was too familar, so we invented an angular wheel. Whoohoo progress!
Ah yes the fun to have the chat channels SPAMMED with buying and selling. I so wanted that back....
NOT
Sorry, but the lack of an AH is THE singlemost moronic idea of this game. It WAY overpowers some of the power-guilds and makes the already strong ones even stronger. It eliminated the meaningful existence of small, family sized guilds. It leaves a lot of crafter focusssed gamers in the rain, having to struggle to sell their crafted goods. It makes is a pointless hassle to find what you want to buy for NO REASON AT ALL.
Who will go to some faraway keep in Cyrodiil, totally unknowing whether or not that store is there and what that store even sells? SWG had at least a central search function, so you could find what you want and then go to the store. TESO needs at least a central serach function as SWG did.
If the game had player cities with player shops, it would have made sense. But like this it is just pointless player harassment, making things different for the mere sake of different. Great, so the round wheel was too familar, so we invented an angular wheel. Whoohoo progress!
Most absurd and wrong decision in a MMO EVER!
You'll still be there at launch though?
i would imagine that players who are heavily into crafting, won't be, at least until ZOS fix the game.
I'm so glad there isn't going to be a central auction house!
There will be no central repository of market prices in Elder Scrolls Online either, making it difficult to rig the market or disturb game balance by selling rare items cheaply. The Elder Scrolls Online Guilds will also have a bank that contains items and inventory shared by members or offered as help to other members
Imo it seems like a bad descision. I would like to spend my time playing the game, (and yes, with other people), not hawking my goods. I don't generally think sit around and spam WTS/WTB when I think Elder Scrolls. Some serious nostalgia glasses being applied here.
If it where a choice somehow, I would praise the descision in giving more freedom. Instead, this ends up complicating many things needlessly IMO.
I am not against interacting with other players. I am against waiting around doing nothing until doing so.
Also, railroading people into the PvP zones and essentially stating that large guilds will dominate and you should be part of at least one, if you can be? Have fun, folks.
So you can be in up to 5 guilds, which are cross-faction, but you can't pvp with your guild if you aren't in their faction, which is grouped by race, unless you preordered, in which case you might be in the same faction with a different race, or Imperial if you got the collector's edition, in which case you can pvp with some of your guilds, but not necessarily all, because you need to PvP with your own faction only, and you can sell stuff in the guild store to people outside your guild if they hold keeps, but not to people outside your faction, unless you PvP in another alliance's guild, and if you don't PvP, you can only sell to people in your own guild, regardless of which faction you are in, assuming it is the guild where you have your crafted stuff, unless you have crafted stuff in each guild, in which case you should probably concentrate your crafted stuff in the guild that PvPs the best, so that they hold keeps, and hopefully the guild that can hold keeps is in your faction, so your alliance buddies can buy your stuff, but then again you should probably put all your stuff in the guild that PvPs the best regardless of faction, because they are going to hold more keeps longer. Right?
Well for me this definetly means pass on this game. I play games to kill things. Frankly, I hate person to person barter trading - I hate it in real life (god bless online shopping) and i hate in game. Bye ESO.
I was thinking about the guild store inside a conquerable keep. It sounds interesting, however I wonder if it will be stable enough to some serious trading.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I don't know why so many people are crying about chat being spammed with WTS/WTB/WTT. You're blowing it out of proportion. All they have to do is add a auction chat channel. If you don't want to see the spam, then don't be on the auction channel. If you want to sell something set your shop up in a keep your guild controls in Cyrodiil.
Something they could really improve upon is the idea of only guilds having access. A better way would be to let the faction have access. It's sismply another reason to defend and help your team.
Something they could really improve upon is the idea of only guilds having access. A better way would be to let the faction have access. It's sismply another reason to defend and help your team.
Quality of the community will make/break this system. Either you have to join a guild with 100-1000 players to market your goods... or do it via personal trade.
The more folks you have scamming others- the fewer who will be willing to trade for items, etc..
IMO that's why AH are considered standard. There is huge risk for both buyer and seller in a simple trade window... what if buyer doesn't pay... what if seller offers wrong goods or fails to produce? Mail COD option helps; but it's not full proof and still the seller is short the item for 14-30 days... that he can't resell.
Quality community will matter more in this system.
Trading in 'owned' keeps is going to be rough and tight to start... have to hold it for a while to get any business done. Also wonder if Guilds have to post two prices... guild price or anyone? How will that work. Some folks who'd sell dirt cheap to their own would want a mountain of gold from others... Do Keep's assume Guild's AH... etc.?
Comments
There's a simple way to solve the auction house problem
there should be a system where players can leave their character in Merchant mode
like put what you want in your Merchant bag then switch to Merchant mode and it will log you out
but people will see your character in game with some kind of bag or thing in front of you and interact with you and buy
Note : this mechanic is from an game called "Dofus"
Totally in favor of this system. As an old school EQ player, one of the reasons EQ died was the addition of the auction house as it reduced the interaction between players. The east commons tunnel was the E'ci trading spot. On weekends you would find 50 to 100+ players hawking their items. I made many in game friends through this process as we haggled over items.
Anything which puts more player interaction into the game is a huge plus in my opinion. Auction channel is a must. The players will work out the rest.
This is the best idea ever!
Choose a place to put down your vendor at, even outside cities. Protect them with a mercenary (part of the skill line or the ones you can buy in cyrodiil) if they are not inside a city/safe zone. I like it!
If not, then allow the players to set up their own stall, but they actually have to be there to accept trade offers or barter, not just AFK like in other games... So, if people interact with the stall, they can see what the player has up for sale/for crafting and their asking price.
All the crafting disciplines already have their own skill lines with very good choices of passives in there
It´s wonderful.
This is the best idea ever!
Choose a place to put down your vendor at, even outside cities. Protect them with a mercenary (part of the skill line or the ones you can buy in cyrodiil) if they are not inside a city/safe zone. I like it!
If not, then allow the players to set up their own stall, but they actually have to be there to accept trade offers or barter, not just AFK like in other games... So, if people interact with the stall, they can see what the player has up for sale/for crafting and their asking price.
I guess you didn't play Aion or any number of Asian MMOs, seas of vendors as far as the eye could see. Horrible in practice. What vendor is going to sit there for their n hour gaming session waiting for a punter to barter with? Trading posts work because they are un obtrusive and efficient. I'm all for exploring other solutions but they have to fundamentally work.Aw... Fine, then just spawning their vendor somewhere. :P Oh well, might just be me, but I´d love to be able to spawn a little table with a list of my wares and try to attracts customers, like traditional markets
Man, I can't believe I didn't notice that sooner, I've worked it out and to acquire all the USEFULL skills in the blacksmithing line will use up about 15 points (23 for every skill in the line but some of those just help you advance your smithing quicker). The only problem is that though you can only get 49 skill points through leveling you can get 85 extra skill points through finding every Sky Shard. This is unfortunate for me because it leaves too many skill points for people to use and means you don't have to really specialize. In short, too many skill points for skill lines too have any significant meaning, it's one of my issues with the game. That said, since each skill line takes up about 20-25 skill points each being good at more than 1 crafting skill will require you to take points away from combat skills. I still think there are too many skill points on offer, once the guides detailing the exact locations of every Skyshard come out (which they inevitably will) then gaining all those extra points will be ridiculously easy.
if its used in Dofus then they copied it from Everquest, as thats the method used in that game, and that was at least a decade ago, oddly enough, this came about because Everquest players complained about the lack of trading features in the game. It worked pretty well so i'm not surprised it was copied by other games.
I must say that their idea for buying and selling is somewhat innovative and interesting. It's going to fail miserably of course, but it is rather heroic of them to try it.
As for a single AH not working with millions of items? It does in EVE and the technology that EVE started with is way behind the hardware/software that could be used today. So, yes, they could build an AH, they simply don't want to.
As I said above, it is an interesting idea, but I think that all the problems pointed out in the article are just the tip of the iceberg.
^^^^^^^^^^ This
EvE had gazillions of items on regional auctions almost a decade ago when broadband meant 50k a second and 256mb was a LOT of RAM on your 600Mhz single core processor.
The clash will be PvE players either getting in the way of or resenting (or likely both) the PvP focussed trade areas.
This game is almost deliberately setting up for a clash of PvE and PvP players.
In terms of "hardcore" attitude? PvP will win.
In terms of subs number? PvE will win... it always does - it won't even be a close contest.
PvE players trying to fill guilds or realizing that they have to form PvP guilds to take these special areas.
You know what? They won't bother, they'll cancel their subs and moan at Zenimax, who, in turn will bow to pressure and put in either player shops (my preferred option) or an AH (not something I want - too generic, not personal enough)
Ah yes the fun to have the chat channels SPAMMED with buying and selling. I so wanted that back....
NOT
Sorry, but the lack of an AH is THE singlemost moronic idea of this game. It WAY overpowers some of the power-guilds and makes the already strong ones even stronger. It eliminated the meaningful existence of small, family sized guilds. It leaves a lot of crafter focusssed gamers in the rain, having to struggle to sell their crafted goods. It makes is a pointless hassle to find what you want to buy for NO REASON AT ALL.
Who will go to some faraway keep in Cyrodiil, totally unknowing whether or not that store is there and what that store even sells? SWG had at least a central search function, so you could find what you want and then go to the store. TESO needs at least a central serach function as SWG did.
If the game had player cities with player shops, it would have made sense. But like this it is just pointless player harassment, making things different for the mere sake of different. Great, so the round wheel was too familar, so we invented an angular wheel. Whoohoo progress!
Most absurd and wrong decision in a MMO EVER!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
To have player shops instead of auction houses is a great idea. I enjoyed it in SWG, the different crafters and shops where one thing that really distinguished the MMO from an SinglePlayer RPG. And it was a completely different experience compared to newer games like WOW.
But on the other side, making this only available within a guild and even linking it to PVP is imo completely stupid and might destroy a good decision.
You'll still be there at launch though?
i would imagine that players who are heavily into crafting, won't be, at least until ZOS fix the game.
I'm so glad there isn't going to be a central auction house!
There will be no central repository of market prices in Elder Scrolls Online either, making it difficult to rig the market or disturb game balance by selling rare items cheaply. The Elder Scrolls Online Guilds will also have a bank that contains items and inventory shared by members or offered as help to other members
Imo it seems like a bad descision. I would like to spend my time playing the game, (and yes, with other people), not hawking my goods. I don't generally think sit around and spam WTS/WTB when I think Elder Scrolls. Some serious nostalgia glasses being applied here.
If it where a choice somehow, I would praise the descision in giving more freedom. Instead, this ends up complicating many things needlessly IMO.
I am not against interacting with other players. I am against waiting around doing nothing until doing so.
Also, railroading people into the PvP zones and essentially stating that large guilds will dominate and you should be part of at least one, if you can be? Have fun, folks.
In my case, you would be wrong.
Does that mean you won't be there at launch?
I was thinking about the guild store inside a conquerable keep. It sounds interesting, however I wonder if it will be stable enough to some serious trading.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Quality of the community will make/break this system. Either you have to join a guild with 100-1000 players to market your goods... or do it via personal trade.
The more folks you have scamming others- the fewer who will be willing to trade for items, etc..
IMO that's why AH are considered standard. There is huge risk for both buyer and seller in a simple trade window... what if buyer doesn't pay... what if seller offers wrong goods or fails to produce? Mail COD option helps; but it's not full proof and still the seller is short the item for 14-30 days... that he can't resell.
Quality community will matter more in this system.
Trading in 'owned' keeps is going to be rough and tight to start... have to hold it for a while to get any business done. Also wonder if Guilds have to post two prices... guild price or anyone? How will that work. Some folks who'd sell dirt cheap to their own would want a mountain of gold from others... Do Keep's assume Guild's AH... etc.?
Curious to see how it works out.