yes on swg, meh on the community, I can identify 10 people just thinking about it now that want to pvp badly but LOVE the pve (me being one) , so even those in pvp are saying the numbers are actually low. My point, the game just came out, give it time we will be there soon enough!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I think what pisses off most DAoC and WAR players (myself among them) is that we never realized how good we had it in those games, and when we moved on to other games for something new, we finally realized what we had.
I don't play this game (still waiting on info) but after all the years from DAoC (and even WAR) I am still searching for what I miss about those games.
-When I dinged max RR dueling and beating the other 'sides' best player
-Defeating the enemy King for the first time
-Being pissed when they killed our King
-Organized 6v6's that were watched by the whole server
-Roaming solo and fighting 1v2's
The sad thing is the formula for PVP is out there....
DAoC: 3 factions
Warhammer: (9) Scenarios (BGs) launched with game
Rift: different builds/armor/weps available to swap free of charge
SWTOR: Story line that made you bond with your 'main'
ESO: performance? the whole mega server thing may be its greatest contribution?
-Illuminati (Chosen and still searching for the 'perfect' game =(
I don't know if it is or isn't. I couldn't get past DAoCs terrible movement and control system. I did watch my son many times and it looked very fun though. Kudos for you that stuck with the system long enough to get into pvp. I'm liking the pvp in ESO, I'm just not loving the campaign balance.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
The reason why the OP posted this article is because it was the Devs from Zenimax who first compared the pvp to DaoC. So they started this thread by unfairly comparing their version of pvp to the best pvp ever created. The reason why most left DaoC, was because of bad timing. WOW was born during DaoC's golden age.
Because server population was so important to their PVP system, so many people leaving to go try out WOW really hurt their game. By the time people started trickling back to DaoC, it was too late. Plus, even though their pvp was the top of their game, their pve left alot to be desired. Plus, their graphics were getting outdated.
So when a game company, such as Zenimax, starts camparing their pvp system to the greatest system ever....They better prove it, or there are going to be many posts like this one.
I have heard this comparison one too many times now.
The things that made Daoc pvp great were realm pride, server identity, and a continuous campaign.
Realm Pride: This was HUGE in Daoc. After a while people created toons on other servers to be able to experience other realms, but not before attaching themselves to one realm and hating the other two. This game made you proud to be part of your realm and hate the others with a passion. If your lands were being invaded by another realm you went out to kick their ass, period. You did not need any rewards to motivate you, it was for the shear pleasure of defeating and humiliating the enemy. Even the PvE played to this, the backstory making sure you knew what faction your allegiance belonged to and why you should hate the others. Does anyone here really identify with their faction in ESO? I can't even tell you what races are in each off the top of my head because who cares? Ask a Daoc fan what faction trolls were, or Britons, or Keens.
Server Identity: This megaserver, along with this campaign crap, has destroyed any sense of server identity. In Daoc when the Albs were attacking one of the first things was to ask who is leading them, which guild(s), etc. Or how about the watch out in this area if you are solo (insert name of badass facestabbing infiltrator here) is ganking. You always knew who the other side was, you knew their "doctrine" and tactics, and they knew yours. It made for interesting battles because you could always use the fact the enemy knew you to plot diversions and other tricks. You also knew you own server, you knew your guilds, the most skilled allies you had that you would want to go to war with, etc. You did not only know those in your guild but players on your server, period. It was truly a social event every time you logged in.
Continuous campaign: The war in Daoc never ended. You could not jump ship unless it was to reroll to another server. You either made do with what you had, made alliance, or your life sucked. This created an awesome competitive environment. This whole GW2 thing where your war only lasts x amount of time is just pathetic. It has turned it into a cybersport rather than a war.
This is not Daoc and never will be, just stop.
/rant off
I couldn't have said it better. I totally understand when you talk about the realm pride we felt in DAoC. I played Hibernian, and we hated Albs with a passion. Middy's not so much, but Alb's...ugh...when we use to hear that the Alb's were attacking...everyone would just dropped what they were doing and attack. We also knew all our enemies by name and guild, as you said.
It was that way in WoW for a long time as well, when there was more open world PvP. If we were not fighting over Crossroads, it was Tarren Mill. Played Horde...hated Alliance.
Cars are not bicycles (though both are vehicles). Dogs are not cats (though both can be pets). Apples are not oranges (though both are fruit).
I played DAOC for a year and it got pretty stale pretty fast. Enjoyed Planetside a lot more back then.
And there is realm pride in ESO just because you're too lazy to get immersed in the lore doesn't mean it isn't there, you just want it spoon-fed to you with easy basic racism. ESO's conflict is deeper and more naunced than DAOC's ever was which makes it far more interesting.
DAOC still exists, if you want a DAOC clone just play DAOC. ESO is its own animal. Or fruit. Or vehicle.
Beta tested Dark Age of Camelot and played early release for around 6 months until I had to restart my seasonal job I worked around that time in the spring of the following year.
DAoC had the smoothest beta test of any MMORPG I ever participated in up to that point. Release ran smoothly as well at least on the Merlin server.
PvE was a somewhat entertaining, yet moreso amusing joke as I easily powerleveled to be the first 50 on Albion. I remember being the main puller for a group and mass pulling mobs so fast and so often that I was literally trying to kill off my group (not really as I was really good at knowing the strength of my group being the main puller in every MMO up to DAoC; however the group thought I was though. It was mainly about time vs exp gained) yet to no avail as I knew we were good at playing our prospective roles and the MOBs were so predictable and easily dispatched.
I do not recall many issues with the game as it ran like a dream in comparison to what we had experienced during that time with other MMORPGs around that time with people going from dialup to broadband connections and advancements in computer processing.
Merlin server was unofficially designated at the primary PvP server with powerguilds and pvpguilds from previous MMORPGs decided to all compete head to head on the Merlin server.
I picked Albion due to the fact that I only played unarmed monks or archers in MMORPGs and Scout had the longest range attack with the most damage of any realm ranged class. The best stealth of any ranged class and I could push shield to bash/stun for close encounters (I killed many a stealth rogue with it, lol).
HIbernia was really motivated and led by a few pvpguilds on the Merlin server yet they weren't as motivated or as lopsidedly overpowered as Midgard, which powergamed like no one else could fathom playing as many hours nor contending/capturing keeps/relics at very low pop hours. Hibernia ended up giving up and leaving the game once they realized the futility of the situation. Albion consisted of alot of infighting and unorganized jackassedness yet I really tried to spearhead the cause as much as possible.
I've never participated as much in PvP before nor after DAoC nor will I ever put in that much time, energy, and resources as an individual fighting a losing war with so much jackassedness and disorganization. It was a big lesson for me and I would rather have spent my time systematically killing off my fellow teammates then the so called enemy. So much for realm pride.
Realm warfare was such a farce as it mainly consisted of being camped right near the gates of entry for your particular realm, unless your NPC deadly archers were well placed as this was not the case for Albion as I recall. Venturing out was very dangerous unless you were a good stealther, or you were in a good group with a rezzer, or in a well organized raid.
PvP combat last mere seconds as many died without knowing who or what the freak happened. Often you had the long run back to the Realm which lasted roughly 10-30 mins only to die in mere seconds. Rinse/Repeat.
If you were fortunate enough to be organized you had a rezzer, yet many of these were targetted and for good reason. Ended up trying out a well speccd smite cleric as they not only lasted longer in PvP then most classes, they could did decent damage with their spells, and could rezz. Playing the Cleric; I was in the last room of the last keep right near the last relic as the last player standing, the last day Albion held out before Midgard swept the realm.
Archers and Casters dominated PvP until Blade Turn was castable on fellow realm players. Tanks with shields were formidable with block and close ranged they could bash/stun you to death without you being able to attack. Well played Healers/Rezzers were not only formidable, they were necessary. so they were often well protected. Well played assassins (stealth backstabbing rogue types) were quite entertaining and enjoyable I am sure for those who played them.
Ended up being the first player in the game to rank 7 in realm points before I ebayed my account for a considerable amount (ended up being one of the most ebayed accounts on Merlin server). I could one shot any player from the longest range from stealth for 1246 damage. Only players I didn't one shot were tanks, casters with blade turn, and healers/rezzers...they were 2 and 3 shotted. Then they added castable blade turn on fellow realm players and tanks utilized block for fellow realm players as well. A Midgard Caster surpassed my character after I ebayed him. I tooled around with a Thaumaturgist and a Smite Cleric on other peoples accounts as I helped level them up, gear them, and we sold them on ebay.
Dark Age of Camelot is very much like Elder Scrolls Online in many aspects, yet if you were to put yourself in the shoes of the developers who are from DAoC you would want to step it up on a much grander scale as I am sure it will be the most memorable aspect of Elder Scrolls Online for years to come for those willing to put in the time and energy to see it through.
I'm much more interested in PvP in a game where its the players vs the monster players as I see this as the future of PvP in medieval MMORPGs and its going to be a while for learning/adaptable AI to really be worthwhile yet Everquest Next sounds interesting. I really hope they pull it off. Meanwhile we can tool around with whats new and remotely entertaining. Elder Scrolls Online is the new kid on the block and they released it at a good time. Could have been a better release yet I can see why they released it when they did. Whatever your playstyle I am sure you can make it enjoyable in Elder Scrolls Online.
IF a game feels like DAOC to someone that doesn't mean it's like DAOC, it means it brings them back to a time when they played that game.
I'll buy that, more power to you. I wish it did that for me.
Lots of points here, can't reply to them all. Yes I rattled the hornet's nest because ESO has more fanboys than any recent MMO that I can remember. You can still enjoy this pvp, I just think calling it Daoc 2 is absurd....but then some dude said this was the second coming of Everquest so I guess anything can happen.
I am still waiting for that next Daoc myself and personally I am pretty frustrated that despite the huge success it was in this area no one has dared try to replicate it. ESO pretty much copied GW2 WvW which in my opinion was the worst thing about the game, and just happen to be another "second coming'"of Daoc. My only hope now is Camelot Unchained.
I have heard this comparison one too many times now.
The things that made Daoc pvp great were realm pride, server identity, and a continuous campaign.
Realm Pride: This was HUGE in Daoc. After a while people created toons on other servers to be able to experience other realms, but not before attaching themselves to one realm and hating the other two. This game made you proud to be part of your realm and hate the others with a passion. If your lands were being invaded by another realm you went out to kick their ass, period. You did not need any rewards to motivate you, it was for the shear pleasure of defeating and humiliating the enemy. Even the PvE played to this, the backstory making sure you knew what faction your allegiance belonged to and why you should hate the others. Does anyone here really identify with their faction in ESO? I can't even tell you what races are in each off the top of my head because who cares? Ask a Daoc fan what faction trolls were, or Britons, or Keens.
Server Identity: This megaserver, along with this campaign crap, has destroyed any sense of server identity. In Daoc when the Albs were attacking one of the first things was to ask who is leading them, which guild(s), etc. Or how about the watch out in this area if you are solo (insert name of badass facestabbing infiltrator here) is ganking. You always knew who the other side was, you knew their "doctrine" and tactics, and they knew yours. It made for interesting battles because you could always use the fact the enemy knew you to plot diversions and other tricks. You also knew you own server, you knew your guilds, the most skilled allies you had that you would want to go to war with, etc. You did not only know those in your guild but players on your server, period. It was truly a social event every time you logged in.
Continuous campaign: The war in Daoc never ended. You could not jump ship unless it was to reroll to another server. You either made do with what you had, made alliance, or your life sucked. This created an awesome competitive environment. This whole GW2 thing where your war only lasts x amount of time is just pathetic. It has turned it into a cybersport rather than a war.
This is not Daoc and never will be, just stop.
/rant off
I totally agree with this. Ive had a good time trying out Teso so far and i will probably coninue playing because its nothing else on the market right now. (37 Templar atm)
And no, going back to Daoc with the current stealth system and TOA just isnt fun, it never actually was. But the Dread servers was fun back in the days, and the classic ones.
Things i find lacking in Teso.
Forums?...where? The official ones arent used, and fan based forums are selektive invite it seems. Ive tried applying to some but dont get answers. So where do i post my builds? Where do i communicate with the community?
Seriously, they really messed up by "giving" the Control of forums to the community. There is no way for me to feel im a part of something. (feel free to give me advice here if i have missed something)
Where are the big Guilds, the famous gankers, the leaders etc? With the current UI i feel totally isolated from the game. I cant see or relate to People i meet on a regular basis and create relationships, because i dont know who People are, or which guild they are in for that matter.
I cant really seperate good People from the bad either. Or good Guilds from the bad, because its all no "tag/name" > better immersion. I really thought this could be a good thing myself, but all it has done is isolated me from the game.
Where do i go from here? Im lvl 37, guildless (by choise) and feel like i have no place to post about the game exept maybe here...wich really is a Waste of time =P
And with no tag in pvp we really miss out on the rivalry between both single characters and guilds. In my opinion they really messed up going this way. Right now Its just mindless slaughter that nobody cares about. I can buy a FPS that does it better to be honest.
In games like this the community (forums etc for IG politics ) , Guilds and personal pride is everything.
IF a game feels like DAOC to someone that doesn't mean it's like DAOC, it means it brings them back to a time when they played that game.
I'll buy that, more power to you. I wish it did that for me.
Lots of points here, can't reply to them all. Yes I rattled the hornet's nest because ESO has more fanboys than any recent MMO that I can remember. You can still enjoy this pvp, I just think calling it Daoc 2 is absurd....but then some dude said this was the second coming of Everquest so I guess anything can happen.
I am still waiting for that next Daoc myself and personally I am pretty frustrated that despite the huge success it was in this area no one has dared try to replicate it. ESO pretty much copied GW2 WvW which in my opinion was the worst thing about the game, and just happen to be another "second coming'"of Daoc. My only hope now is Camelot Unchained.
Heh I understand what you're saying, I just think you went a bit far with it. IN the end it could end up similar to how people approached DAOC from a community level, on the other hand there's a lot of stuff here that's different from an elder scrolls stand point, like something I just read on IGN.
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Last night a bunch of us low level AD players were fighting it out with some DC guys when a pack of like 20 werewolves (some transformed) ran into us.
Someone called out "KILL THOSE UNHOLY BEASTS" and almost everyone stopped their fighting and laid into the poor werewolves and we slaughtered them.
Then we all ran over to a farms bonfire and sat around it playing music and exchanging battle tales.
It was fantastic lol if you're into any sort of RP.
This and those roleplaying Dawnguard and killing off all the vamp/werewolves I read about in the article I saw that comment on is what MMO gaming is all about.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Cyrodiil has so many problems its hard to even know where to begin.
One step at a time though, if they could fix the combat responsiveness and clear the bugs it wouldn t be such a frustrating experience to start with. I'm Veteran rank in pvp ( not level ) and I can say this pvp has some good moments in it but from a gameplay point of view it needs a lot of work despite all the clunkiness and bugs.
The combat is very bad, mostly consists on who attacks who first from stealth. Sucker punching people doesn't require any skill. Gathering in groups of 20 AOEing everything on our path requires no skill aswell.
Capturing a scroll with the sorcerer spammable teleport is just a reflection of how little thought they gave to their pvp system.
Cyrodiil is beautiful, runs very smoothly, its nice to hear guards commenting on our quests, its nice to view the battles as a spectacle but when it comes to player versus player, this has a very clunky, unresponsive and unbalanced combat.
I really hope they overcome these obstacles and make the PVP a treat to play, it certainly has a lot of potential. Potential, nothing more at the moment unfortunately.
I have heard this comparison one too many times now.
The things that made Daoc pvp great were realm pride, server identity, and a continuous campaign.
Realm Pride: This was HUGE in Daoc. After a while people created toons on other servers to be able to experience other realms, but not before attaching themselves to one realm and hating the other two. This game made you proud to be part of your realm and hate the others with a passion. If your lands were being invaded by another realm you went out to kick their ass, period. You did not need any rewards to motivate you, it was for the shear pleasure of defeating and humiliating the enemy. Even the PvE played to this, the backstory making sure you knew what faction your allegiance belonged to and why you should hate the others. Does anyone here really identify with their faction in ESO? I can't even tell you what races are in each off the top of my head because who cares? Ask a Daoc fan what faction trolls were, or Britons, or Keens.
Server Identity: This megaserver, along with this campaign crap, has destroyed any sense of server identity. In Daoc when the Albs were attacking one of the first things was to ask who is leading them, which guild(s), etc. Or how about the watch out in this area if you are solo (insert name of badass facestabbing infiltrator here) is ganking. You always knew who the other side was, you knew their "doctrine" and tactics, and they knew yours. It made for interesting battles because you could always use the fact the enemy knew you to plot diversions and other tricks. You also knew you own server, you knew your guilds, the most skilled allies you had that you would want to go to war with, etc. You did not only know those in your guild but players on your server, period. It was truly a social event every time you logged in.
Continuous campaign: The war in Daoc never ended. You could not jump ship unless it was to reroll to another server. You either made do with what you had, made alliance, or your life sucked. This created an awesome competitive environment. This whole GW2 thing where your war only lasts x amount of time is just pathetic. It has turned it into a cybersport rather than a war.
This is not Daoc and never will be, just stop.
/rant off
A. Realm Pride, no one cares about the races in DAOC...no one ever did, You hated the opposite realm because of what they were, i hated Albion because they were often zerging scum bags, I didn't hate them because one of them might be a Briton and the other a highlander... Realm Pride has already started to develop in ESO as well, Mainly based off of hate for the realm with the most population at the time. This is why DC on my server doesn't push on Ebon heart as much, because we don't hate them nearly as much as we hate AD right now.
B. You have to pick a server for PVP, so your complaint about this is moot.
C. You clearly haven't played this game, just based off your previous 2 points...The only thing that ends in a Campaign is the score, which resets and rewards you based on how ya did in the past 3 months. None of the keeps reset, your realm points don't reset, the relics don't reset....This isn't like GW2 where a new map is started and you fight someone new, When the Campaign ends in a month or so, You'll still be fighting the same people on your server..and you'll still have whatever your side has taken at the time.
As for talking about DAOC at the start, I played DAOC at the start, I also played Beta, and i remember things like Thanes getting nerfed in beta based off the fact that a bunch of Scouts (which were extremely overpowered at launch) were getting killed by a Skald named Plow, and they couldn't tell the difference between a Thane and a Skald, thus thanes got nerfed for it. Nevermind Plow how a good 10 levels over those Scouts in the first place. This same level of stupid was seen in Warhammer online beta when everyone was pointing out how moronic Bright Wizards were, and the BW's who were in good with certain devs were sending private messages to other players telling them they were going to get them banned if we complained about BW's
I also remember the start of DAOC where CC immunity didn't exist, Meaning Healers could AOE stun people and Runemasters/Thanes could AoE spear and AoE Hammer people to death. Or how about Bard Mez not breaking completely on damage, but instead rooted you in place for the full duration of the mez unless you dropped something from your bag onto the ground.
How about Archers being able to snipe people while hiding behind a tree because they could shoot through them, and then being able to run 10 seconds before being able to stealth and stealth being so good they could stand in the middle of large groups of people and not be seen, This is the primary reason the Melee Stealthers like SB's/Infil/Nightshades getting see stealth.
how about Smite Clerics, Anyone remember those bastards at the start of DAOC? High damage/Great CC (that has no immunity) and Heals.
Point is, DAOC has problems at the start, but its still the best PvP game ever released, and one of the best games ever released. Give ESO time before ya complain
Originally posted by Aroukos Guys OP started this thread as a reaction to those who are claiming ESO is a DAoC successor.
well for me it is and daoc was my 1. mmo i played for years ^^
this daoc was better and such is all just a thing of natural human behavior...everything that was is better than what is ^^ i'd go as far and say a lot of things in eso's rvr are way better then they have ever been in daoc beside all the obvious the stealth mechanic alone adds so much more than what stealth added in daoc - yes i loved stealther groups but this goes to eso 100%.
sure daoc was my first mmo and for that it will always be special and it had rvr with 3 realms i too was impressed way more easily back then...still eso's rvr is in no way worse than daoc's rvr. it just has to keep on adding to it like daoc did with realm ranks and such and i'll be happy for quite a while in my daoc 2^^
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by SmarnyPete</i> <br><b><p>The whole hey be any race in any alliance killed alliance pride. We did have definate racial alliance pride. Dominion vs Ebon vs DC. Now it is just red vs blue vs yellow. I was sad when the explorer's pack was introduced. Instead of going into Cyrodill to fight for the Dominion, I just go to PvP. Enough people complianed about not being able to play any race with their bffs worked. We now fight identical copies of ourselfs just like in GW2. I turn around and there are 100 vikings with mohawks in the Dominion.</p><p>The PvP is really good, but the alliance pride may never build. I believe home campaign changes will increase to 100K AP which really isn't that much if you PvP a ton. I think after the 1st 90 days home campaigns should only be allowed to be changed after the campaign ends.</p><p>We'll have to see what the Imperial City holds for us. Maybe it really will be something to fight over and only accessed on your home campaign. Hopefull changing your home will become more difficult to encourge people not to change. We also need a merger of campaigns to build 4 really strong ones. Expand the campaigns as those become queue'd on a daily basis.</p></b></blockquote> <p> </p>
Your entire argument makes no sense to me. Since everything being said is pure opinion anyhow, figured I would throw some in.
How does making everyone from a certain race play for one side make sense to you? Maybe it's due to the fact that I live in the US and we have such a diverse group of folks, but I don't like games where you're forced to pledge an allegiance based on race. How do we know there wasn't an Argonian who befriended a Breton and joined their fight? For a series that allowed so much openness, that would piss me off.
Honestly, I still think EQ2 did it the best with betrayal quest.
You can still have pride in your alliance being any race in my opinion. It's all how you look at it. Don't be so close minded. It's a video game, have fun.
Originally posted by ohioastro Comparing game features that took years to develop against a brand new release is not useful. How does the OP know that players *won't* end up developing strong alliance allegiances in 3 month campaigns once they've been actively PvPing for years? Does he also give stock market tips?
DAoC didn't take that long to develop and - fundamentally - its PvP remained pretty much unchanged. (There was change e.g. nerfs (left hand axe!), map changes, realm ranks were added but the fundamentals remained). ESo on the other hand did take years and had the advantage of looking at everything that DAoC was / is.
DAOC didn't take that long to develop? What DAOC were you playing? It was MONTHS until frontier PvP was even remotely balanced, and even then the kneejerk overbalancing continued for close to 18 months (6 months post SI); and the frontiers were completely redone in June 2004, so that's three YEARS post-release.
Every good MMO takes time to sort itself out, get some balancing passes in, get bugs out, etc. Stop holding ESO to some unattainable standard that no game can, or ever will, reach at release.
Same as you but looking at it from a different perspective maybe.
DAoC from start to Frontiers (a map change!): just over 4 years. TESO: 7 years and counting already. DAoC: little team; TESO: big team. TESO has been able to use or discard all the lessons that DAoC learnt - and other games as well.
DAoC: never ending balance issues; new op'd classes in SI etc. TESO should never have that issue as every character can in time be every/any class/build.
So I don't see TESO ever becoming what DAoC was. It's already had much longer to be much better - if it was ever going to be.
Add pvp levels, something equivalent of DAoC's realm rank system.
Get rid ESO's 5 guild system and incorporate guild alliances.
I think that would fix the huge identity problem.
So many aspects of DAoC that Zennimax could take and improve their game.
You'd think being in the business of developing game(s) of this genre they would have realized.
*Edit:: I'd like to add that I still play dark age every now and again. most recently about 3 or 4 months ago. It just doesn't have the population it used to. I'm not nostalgia tripping. daoc was a great game during its prime and is still pretty decent even today.
yea, makes sense, since it's not as good as daoc, lets add some things that had TOTALY nothing to do with DAOC's pvp like namplates ^^
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
IF a game feels like DAOC to someone that doesn't mean it's like DAOC, it means it brings them back to a time when they played that game.
I'll buy that, more power to you. I wish it did that for me.
Lots of points here, can't reply to them all. Yes I rattled the hornet's nest because ESO has more fanboys than any recent MMO that I can remember. You can still enjoy this pvp, I just think calling it Daoc 2 is absurd....but then some dude said this was the second coming of Everquest so I guess anything can happen.
I am still waiting for that next Daoc myself and personally I am pretty frustrated that despite the huge success it was in this area no one has dared try to replicate it. ESO pretty much copied GW2 WvW which in my opinion was the worst thing about the game, and just happen to be another "second coming'"of Daoc. My only hope now is Camelot Unchained.
I think that it's fundamentally unfair to judge the community and feel of such a new release. For example, a lot of elder scrolls players really like the lore and quests. The process of leveling does immerse you in the story of your faction. This is a solid reason for people to develop a strong link to one of the three factions. Of course, you can powergame and ignore this - but you can ignore lots of things if you want to. There are 3 month campaigns and guilds can capture keeps. I can very easily see the ingredients for players to get attached to particular alliances, and even particular keeps. So the claim that they can't possibly succeed is far too narrow. I get that you have fond memories of DAOC; treat the comparisons as a complement.
Ummm, so OP are you telling me your willing to go back and play DAoC ? I tried to 2 years ago.... it is just horrible, the Ui and ancient controls are just MEH MEH MEH, wnd while it is not a deal breaker the graphics of the game look really bad.
All that said, TESO does a much better job at Realm warfare than any other MMO since DAoC. Anet for me failed when it came to WvW, it is not something that made me feel like the realm pride i had in DAoC, i feel that with my faction... it may not be as strong as i felt it in DAoC but its there.
Let me tell you this, if the new Mythic started a kickstarter where it took the current form of DAoC, used a new engine, redid how the ui and the controls worked, and narrowed down all the skill glut we have now, i would fund that like i did with Camelot Unchained ($300 backer). Sad thing is since i know CU will be out in a cpl of years or less, i dont really need Mythic to do this. For now i am super content with TESO, its not DAoC but it shines bright enough for my to fly around the flame of AvA.
Now if we could just get Zenimax to fix there net code i would be a happy camper.
DAoC: never ending balance issues; new op'd classes in SI etc. TESO should never have that issue as every character can in time be every/any class/build.
(...)
Just because every player can mold their character to the latest FotM, whichever one is Op at the moment, doesn't make it ok.
Balance doesn't mean "yes, there is an OP class/build/weapon, but that's ok, because you can all do that!", it means all classes/roles/weapons are equally valid.
Add pvp levels, something equivalent of DAoC's realm rank system.
Get rid ESO's 5 guild system and incorporate guild alliances.
I think that would fix the huge identity problem.
So many aspects of DAoC that Zennimax could take and improve their game.
You'd think being in the business of developing game(s) of this genre they would have realized.
*Edit:: I'd like to add that I still play dark age every now and again. most recently about 3 or 4 months ago. It just doesn't have the population it used to. I'm not nostalgia tripping. daoc was a great game during its prime and is still pretty decent even today.
yea, makes sense, since it's not as good as daoc, lets add some things that had TOTALY nothing to do with DAOC's pvp like namplates ^^
It is a little thing, but it makes a lot of sense. I still remember the name of the dwarf engineer that camped the bridge in Dragonwake (Warhammer) and would punt your ass off. I still remember the Witch Elf named TaylorSwift. I still remember all the people I laughed at every time I solo'd them and the rivalry with those players it created. How each time we'd see each other, no matter what was going on around us, it turned into who could kill the other 1st. Even it meant 15 other enemy players were going to kill you soon after. That small little rivalry with other players means something.
I can remember talking in TS and asking if anybody knew a Knight of the Blazing Sun named Zerouvus or something. Most people wouldn't, but I hated that character. The taunts back and forth between us made the game fun.
I also remember all those names tags and guild tags I played with for years.
As I said it is a little thing, but killing a nameless foe you don't know if you have killed or been killed by ever doesn't create that emotional attachment. When somebody kills you 10x in a row you remember the name. When you /lol a named player after a kill and a few days later get killed and get /lol backed by that same dude, it just clicks. PvP, RvR, AvA, whatever just became a little more personable.
What a ridiculous thread and rush to judgement. In week 3, DAoC's pvp was nothing remotely like what it later became. Yet the OP compares a game three weeks old to a game that was out for years. Totally nonsensical.
I don't know exactly what ESO's pvp will end up looking like, or how popular it will be, but I do know that it will develop and change enormously from what it is now:
Players will get to know each other as campaigns become more developed, and communication and teamwork will vastly improve.
There will be far less 'follow the zerg' and far more small/medium group strategies and tactics, not PUGs but guilds and friends that work together.
There will be far more people in PvP as players level up and reach lvl 50.
ESO will probably add something like Darkness Falls which enormously boosted interest in the frontier war by pve players, and often got them to come out and pvp.
The developers will find ways to better balance AvA campaigns overall, and by times of day (so that some realms aren't logging on every day to find that another realm took everything while they were asleep).
It wont ever be perfect, but seriously, we are not even 1/3 of the way through the first 90 day campaign, isn't it just a tad early to rush to judgement about something that is primarily an endgame activity for many players? Jeesh.
IF a game feels like DAOC to someone that doesn't mean it's like DAOC, it means it brings them back to a time when they played that game.
I'll buy that, more power to you. I wish it did that for me.
Lots of points here, can't reply to them all. Yes I rattled the hornet's nest because ESO has more fanboys than any recent MMO that I can remember. You can still enjoy this pvp, I just think calling it Daoc 2 is absurd....but then some dude said this was the second coming of Everquest so I guess anything can happen.
I am still waiting for that next Daoc myself and personally I am pretty frustrated that despite the huge success it was in this area no one has dared try to replicate it. ESO pretty much copied GW2 WvW which in my opinion was the worst thing about the game, and just happen to be another "second coming'"of Daoc. My only hope now is Camelot Unchained.
Oh god... Why do people keep using the word fanboy? You come into ESO forums and rant against the game, while most of your arguments are subjective to the players likes and dislikes, what did you expect? A nobel peace prize?
The forums aren't a place to rant if you wish a civilized conversation.
Comments
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I think what pisses off most DAoC and WAR players (myself among them) is that we never realized how good we had it in those games, and when we moved on to other games for something new, we finally realized what we had.
I don't play this game (still waiting on info) but after all the years from DAoC (and even WAR) I am still searching for what I miss about those games.
-When I dinged max RR dueling and beating the other 'sides' best player
-Defeating the enemy King for the first time
-Being pissed when they killed our King
-Organized 6v6's that were watched by the whole server
-Roaming solo and fighting 1v2's
The sad thing is the formula for PVP is out there....
DAoC: 3 factions
Warhammer: (9) Scenarios (BGs) launched with game
Rift: different builds/armor/weps available to swap free of charge
SWTOR: Story line that made you bond with your 'main'
ESO: performance? the whole mega server thing may be its greatest contribution?
-Illuminati (Chosen and still searching for the 'perfect' game =(
Many factors go into why ESO is nothing like DAoC. These include:
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Like anything in life its just a matter of opinion. Daoc was not the greatest ..
So yeah PVP in ESO is better. People get stuck.. like dont like change. If it is then it = worse...
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
The reason why the OP posted this article is because it was the Devs from Zenimax who first compared the pvp to DaoC. So they started this thread by unfairly comparing their version of pvp to the best pvp ever created. The reason why most left DaoC, was because of bad timing. WOW was born during DaoC's golden age.
Because server population was so important to their PVP system, so many people leaving to go try out WOW really hurt their game. By the time people started trickling back to DaoC, it was too late. Plus, even though their pvp was the top of their game, their pve left alot to be desired. Plus, their graphics were getting outdated.
So when a game company, such as Zenimax, starts camparing their pvp system to the greatest system ever....They better prove it, or there are going to be many posts like this one.
I couldn't have said it better. I totally understand when you talk about the realm pride we felt in DAoC. I played Hibernian, and we hated Albs with a passion. Middy's not so much, but Alb's...ugh...when we use to hear that the Alb's were attacking...everyone would just dropped what they were doing and attack. We also knew all our enemies by name and guild, as you said.
It was that way in WoW for a long time as well, when there was more open world PvP. If we were not fighting over Crossroads, it was Tarren Mill. Played Horde...hated Alliance.
In other news:
Cars are not bicycles (though both are vehicles). Dogs are not cats (though both can be pets). Apples are not oranges (though both are fruit).
I played DAOC for a year and it got pretty stale pretty fast. Enjoyed Planetside a lot more back then.
And there is realm pride in ESO just because you're too lazy to get immersed in the lore doesn't mean it isn't there, you just want it spoon-fed to you with easy basic racism. ESO's conflict is deeper and more naunced than DAOC's ever was which makes it far more interesting.
DAOC still exists, if you want a DAOC clone just play DAOC. ESO is its own animal. Or fruit. Or vehicle.
Beta tested Dark Age of Camelot and played early release for around 6 months until I had to restart my seasonal job I worked around that time in the spring of the following year.
DAoC had the smoothest beta test of any MMORPG I ever participated in up to that point. Release ran smoothly as well at least on the Merlin server.
PvE was a somewhat entertaining, yet moreso amusing joke as I easily powerleveled to be the first 50 on Albion. I remember being the main puller for a group and mass pulling mobs so fast and so often that I was literally trying to kill off my group (not really as I was really good at knowing the strength of my group being the main puller in every MMO up to DAoC; however the group thought I was though. It was mainly about time vs exp gained) yet to no avail as I knew we were good at playing our prospective roles and the MOBs were so predictable and easily dispatched.
I do not recall many issues with the game as it ran like a dream in comparison to what we had experienced during that time with other MMORPGs around that time with people going from dialup to broadband connections and advancements in computer processing.
Merlin server was unofficially designated at the primary PvP server with powerguilds and pvpguilds from previous MMORPGs decided to all compete head to head on the Merlin server.
I picked Albion due to the fact that I only played unarmed monks or archers in MMORPGs and Scout had the longest range attack with the most damage of any realm ranged class. The best stealth of any ranged class and I could push shield to bash/stun for close encounters (I killed many a stealth rogue with it, lol).
HIbernia was really motivated and led by a few pvpguilds on the Merlin server yet they weren't as motivated or as lopsidedly overpowered as Midgard, which powergamed like no one else could fathom playing as many hours nor contending/capturing keeps/relics at very low pop hours. Hibernia ended up giving up and leaving the game once they realized the futility of the situation. Albion consisted of alot of infighting and unorganized jackassedness yet I really tried to spearhead the cause as much as possible.
I've never participated as much in PvP before nor after DAoC nor will I ever put in that much time, energy, and resources as an individual fighting a losing war with so much jackassedness and disorganization. It was a big lesson for me and I would rather have spent my time systematically killing off my fellow teammates then the so called enemy. So much for realm pride.
Realm warfare was such a farce as it mainly consisted of being camped right near the gates of entry for your particular realm, unless your NPC deadly archers were well placed as this was not the case for Albion as I recall. Venturing out was very dangerous unless you were a good stealther, or you were in a good group with a rezzer, or in a well organized raid.
PvP combat last mere seconds as many died without knowing who or what the freak happened. Often you had the long run back to the Realm which lasted roughly 10-30 mins only to die in mere seconds. Rinse/Repeat.
If you were fortunate enough to be organized you had a rezzer, yet many of these were targetted and for good reason. Ended up trying out a well speccd smite cleric as they not only lasted longer in PvP then most classes, they could did decent damage with their spells, and could rezz. Playing the Cleric; I was in the last room of the last keep right near the last relic as the last player standing, the last day Albion held out before Midgard swept the realm.
Archers and Casters dominated PvP until Blade Turn was castable on fellow realm players. Tanks with shields were formidable with block and close ranged they could bash/stun you to death without you being able to attack. Well played Healers/Rezzers were not only formidable, they were necessary. so they were often well protected. Well played assassins (stealth backstabbing rogue types) were quite entertaining and enjoyable I am sure for those who played them.
Ended up being the first player in the game to rank 7 in realm points before I ebayed my account for a considerable amount (ended up being one of the most ebayed accounts on Merlin server). I could one shot any player from the longest range from stealth for 1246 damage. Only players I didn't one shot were tanks, casters with blade turn, and healers/rezzers...they were 2 and 3 shotted. Then they added castable blade turn on fellow realm players and tanks utilized block for fellow realm players as well. A Midgard Caster surpassed my character after I ebayed him. I tooled around with a Thaumaturgist and a Smite Cleric on other peoples accounts as I helped level them up, gear them, and we sold them on ebay.
Dark Age of Camelot is very much like Elder Scrolls Online in many aspects, yet if you were to put yourself in the shoes of the developers who are from DAoC you would want to step it up on a much grander scale as I am sure it will be the most memorable aspect of Elder Scrolls Online for years to come for those willing to put in the time and energy to see it through.
I'm much more interested in PvP in a game where its the players vs the monster players as I see this as the future of PvP in medieval MMORPGs and its going to be a while for learning/adaptable AI to really be worthwhile yet Everquest Next sounds interesting. I really hope they pull it off. Meanwhile we can tool around with whats new and remotely entertaining. Elder Scrolls Online is the new kid on the block and they released it at a good time. Could have been a better release yet I can see why they released it when they did. Whatever your playstyle I am sure you can make it enjoyable in Elder Scrolls Online.
I'll buy that, more power to you. I wish it did that for me.
Lots of points here, can't reply to them all. Yes I rattled the hornet's nest because ESO has more fanboys than any recent MMO that I can remember. You can still enjoy this pvp, I just think calling it Daoc 2 is absurd....but then some dude said this was the second coming of Everquest so I guess anything can happen.
I am still waiting for that next Daoc myself and personally I am pretty frustrated that despite the huge success it was in this area no one has dared try to replicate it. ESO pretty much copied GW2 WvW which in my opinion was the worst thing about the game, and just happen to be another "second coming'"of Daoc. My only hope now is Camelot Unchained.
I totally agree with this. Ive had a good time trying out Teso so far and i will probably coninue playing because its nothing else on the market right now. (37 Templar atm)
And no, going back to Daoc with the current stealth system and TOA just isnt fun, it never actually was. But the Dread servers was fun back in the days, and the classic ones.
Things i find lacking in Teso.
Forums?...where? The official ones arent used, and fan based forums are selektive invite it seems. Ive tried applying to some but dont get answers. So where do i post my builds? Where do i communicate with the community?
Seriously, they really messed up by "giving" the Control of forums to the community. There is no way for me to feel im a part of something. (feel free to give me advice here if i have missed something)
Where are the big Guilds, the famous gankers, the leaders etc? With the current UI i feel totally isolated from the game. I cant see or relate to People i meet on a regular basis and create relationships, because i dont know who People are, or which guild they are in for that matter.
I cant really seperate good People from the bad either. Or good Guilds from the bad, because its all no "tag/name" > better immersion. I really thought this could be a good thing myself, but all it has done is isolated me from the game.
Where do i go from here? Im lvl 37, guildless (by choise) and feel like i have no place to post about the game exept maybe here...wich really is a Waste of time =P
And with no tag in pvp we really miss out on the rivalry between both single characters and guilds. In my opinion they really messed up going this way. Right now Its just mindless slaughter that nobody cares about. I can buy a FPS that does it better to be honest.
In games like this the community (forums etc for IG politics ) , Guilds and personal pride is everything.
Sadly this game has none.
They better fix it or go belly up.
Heh I understand what you're saying, I just think you went a bit far with it. IN the end it could end up similar to how people approached DAOC from a community level, on the other hand there's a lot of stuff here that's different from an elder scrolls stand point, like something I just read on IGN.
Last night a bunch of us low level AD players were fighting it out with some DC guys when a pack of like 20 werewolves (some transformed) ran into us.
Someone called out "KILL THOSE UNHOLY BEASTS" and almost everyone stopped their fighting and laid into the poor werewolves and we slaughtered them.
Then we all ran over to a farms bonfire and sat around it playing music and exchanging battle tales.
It was fantastic lol if you're into any sort of RP.
This and those roleplaying Dawnguard and killing off all the vamp/werewolves I read about in the article I saw that comment on is what MMO gaming is all about.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Cyrodiil has so many problems its hard to even know where to begin.
One step at a time though, if they could fix the combat responsiveness and clear the bugs it wouldn t be such a frustrating experience to start with. I'm Veteran rank in pvp ( not level ) and I can say this pvp has some good moments in it but from a gameplay point of view it needs a lot of work despite all the clunkiness and bugs.
The combat is very bad, mostly consists on who attacks who first from stealth. Sucker punching people doesn't require any skill. Gathering in groups of 20 AOEing everything on our path requires no skill aswell.
Capturing a scroll with the sorcerer spammable teleport is just a reflection of how little thought they gave to their pvp system.
Cyrodiil is beautiful, runs very smoothly, its nice to hear guards commenting on our quests, its nice to view the battles as a spectacle but when it comes to player versus player, this has a very clunky, unresponsive and unbalanced combat.
I really hope they overcome these obstacles and make the PVP a treat to play, it certainly has a lot of potential. Potential, nothing more at the moment unfortunately.
A. Realm Pride, no one cares about the races in DAOC...no one ever did, You hated the opposite realm because of what they were, i hated Albion because they were often zerging scum bags, I didn't hate them because one of them might be a Briton and the other a highlander... Realm Pride has already started to develop in ESO as well, Mainly based off of hate for the realm with the most population at the time. This is why DC on my server doesn't push on Ebon heart as much, because we don't hate them nearly as much as we hate AD right now.
B. You have to pick a server for PVP, so your complaint about this is moot.
C. You clearly haven't played this game, just based off your previous 2 points...The only thing that ends in a Campaign is the score, which resets and rewards you based on how ya did in the past 3 months. None of the keeps reset, your realm points don't reset, the relics don't reset....This isn't like GW2 where a new map is started and you fight someone new, When the Campaign ends in a month or so, You'll still be fighting the same people on your server..and you'll still have whatever your side has taken at the time.
As for talking about DAOC at the start, I played DAOC at the start, I also played Beta, and i remember things like Thanes getting nerfed in beta based off the fact that a bunch of Scouts (which were extremely overpowered at launch) were getting killed by a Skald named Plow, and they couldn't tell the difference between a Thane and a Skald, thus thanes got nerfed for it. Nevermind Plow how a good 10 levels over those Scouts in the first place. This same level of stupid was seen in Warhammer online beta when everyone was pointing out how moronic Bright Wizards were, and the BW's who were in good with certain devs were sending private messages to other players telling them they were going to get them banned if we complained about BW's
I also remember the start of DAOC where CC immunity didn't exist, Meaning Healers could AOE stun people and Runemasters/Thanes could AoE spear and AoE Hammer people to death. Or how about Bard Mez not breaking completely on damage, but instead rooted you in place for the full duration of the mez unless you dropped something from your bag onto the ground.
How about Archers being able to snipe people while hiding behind a tree because they could shoot through them, and then being able to run 10 seconds before being able to stealth and stealth being so good they could stand in the middle of large groups of people and not be seen, This is the primary reason the Melee Stealthers like SB's/Infil/Nightshades getting see stealth.
how about Smite Clerics, Anyone remember those bastards at the start of DAOC? High damage/Great CC (that has no immunity) and Heals.
Point is, DAOC has problems at the start, but its still the best PvP game ever released, and one of the best games ever released. Give ESO time before ya complain
well for me it is and daoc was my 1. mmo i played for years ^^
this daoc was better and such is all just a thing of natural human behavior...everything that was is better than what is ^^ i'd go as far and say a lot of things in eso's rvr are way better then they have ever been in daoc
beside all the obvious the stealth mechanic alone adds so much more than what stealth added in daoc - yes i loved stealther groups but this goes to eso 100%.
sure daoc was my first mmo and for that it will always be special and it had rvr with 3 realms i too was impressed way more easily back then...still eso's rvr is in no way worse than daoc's rvr. it just has to keep on adding to it like daoc did with realm ranks and such and i'll be happy for quite a while in my daoc 2^^
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by SmarnyPete</i>
<br><b><p>The whole hey be any race in any alliance killed alliance pride. We did have definate racial alliance pride. Dominion vs Ebon vs DC. Now it is just red vs blue vs yellow. I was sad when the explorer's pack was introduced. Instead of going into Cyrodill to fight for the Dominion, I just go to PvP. Enough people complianed about not being able to play any race with their bffs worked. We now fight identical copies of ourselfs just like in GW2. I turn around and there are 100 vikings with mohawks in the Dominion.</p><p>The PvP is really good, but the alliance pride may never build. I believe home campaign changes will increase to 100K AP which really isn't that much if you PvP a ton. I think after the 1st 90 days home campaigns should only be allowed to be changed after the campaign ends.</p><p>We'll have to see what the Imperial City holds for us. Maybe it really will be something to fight over and only accessed on your home campaign. Hopefull changing your home will become more difficult to encourge people not to change. We also need a merger of campaigns to build 4 really strong ones. Expand the campaigns as those become queue'd on a daily basis.</p></b></blockquote>
<p> </p>
Your entire argument makes no sense to me. Since everything being said is pure opinion anyhow, figured I would throw some in.
How does making everyone from a certain race play for one side make sense to you? Maybe it's due to the fact that I live in the US and we have such a diverse group of folks, but I don't like games where you're forced to pledge an allegiance based on race. How do we know there wasn't an Argonian who befriended a Breton and joined their fight? For a series that allowed so much openness, that would piss me off.
Honestly, I still think EQ2 did it the best with betrayal quest.
You can still have pride in your alliance being any race in my opinion. It's all how you look at it. Don't be so close minded. It's a video game, have fun.
Same as you but looking at it from a different perspective maybe.
DAoC from start to Frontiers (a map change!): just over 4 years. TESO: 7 years and counting already. DAoC: little team; TESO: big team. TESO has been able to use or discard all the lessons that DAoC learnt - and other games as well.
DAoC: never ending balance issues; new op'd classes in SI etc. TESO should never have that issue as every character can in time be every/any class/build.
So I don't see TESO ever becoming what DAoC was. It's already had much longer to be much better - if it was ever going to be.
yea, makes sense, since it's not as good as daoc, lets add some things that had TOTALY nothing to do with DAOC's pvp like namplates ^^
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I think that it's fundamentally unfair to judge the community and feel of such a new release. For example, a lot of elder scrolls players really like the lore and quests. The process of leveling does immerse you in the story of your faction. This is a solid reason for people to develop a strong link to one of the three factions. Of course, you can powergame and ignore this - but you can ignore lots of things if you want to. There are 3 month campaigns and guilds can capture keeps. I can very easily see the ingredients for players to get attached to particular alliances, and even particular keeps. So the claim that they can't possibly succeed is far too narrow. I get that you have fond memories of DAOC; treat the comparisons as a complement.
Ummm, so OP are you telling me your willing to go back and play DAoC ? I tried to 2 years ago.... it is just horrible, the Ui and ancient controls are just MEH MEH MEH, wnd while it is not a deal breaker the graphics of the game look really bad.
All that said, TESO does a much better job at Realm warfare than any other MMO since DAoC. Anet for me failed when it came to WvW, it is not something that made me feel like the realm pride i had in DAoC, i feel that with my faction... it may not be as strong as i felt it in DAoC but its there.
Let me tell you this, if the new Mythic started a kickstarter where it took the current form of DAoC, used a new engine, redid how the ui and the controls worked, and narrowed down all the skill glut we have now, i would fund that like i did with Camelot Unchained ($300 backer). Sad thing is since i know CU will be out in a cpl of years or less, i dont really need Mythic to do this. For now i am super content with TESO, its not DAoC but it shines bright enough for my to fly around the flame of AvA.
Now if we could just get Zenimax to fix there net code i would be a happy camper.
Lolipops !
Just because every player can mold their character to the latest FotM, whichever one is Op at the moment, doesn't make it ok.
Balance doesn't mean "yes, there is an OP class/build/weapon, but that's ok, because you can all do that!", it means all classes/roles/weapons are equally valid.
It is a little thing, but it makes a lot of sense. I still remember the name of the dwarf engineer that camped the bridge in Dragonwake (Warhammer) and would punt your ass off. I still remember the Witch Elf named TaylorSwift. I still remember all the people I laughed at every time I solo'd them and the rivalry with those players it created. How each time we'd see each other, no matter what was going on around us, it turned into who could kill the other 1st. Even it meant 15 other enemy players were going to kill you soon after. That small little rivalry with other players means something.
I can remember talking in TS and asking if anybody knew a Knight of the Blazing Sun named Zerouvus or something. Most people wouldn't, but I hated that character. The taunts back and forth between us made the game fun.
I also remember all those names tags and guild tags I played with for years.
As I said it is a little thing, but killing a nameless foe you don't know if you have killed or been killed by ever doesn't create that emotional attachment. When somebody kills you 10x in a row you remember the name. When you /lol a named player after a kill and a few days later get killed and get /lol backed by that same dude, it just clicks. PvP, RvR, AvA, whatever just became a little more personable.
What a ridiculous thread and rush to judgement. In week 3, DAoC's pvp was nothing remotely like what it later became. Yet the OP compares a game three weeks old to a game that was out for years. Totally nonsensical.
I don't know exactly what ESO's pvp will end up looking like, or how popular it will be, but I do know that it will develop and change enormously from what it is now:
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
Oh god... Why do people keep using the word fanboy? You come into ESO forums and rant against the game, while most of your arguments are subjective to the players likes and dislikes, what did you expect? A nobel peace prize?
The forums aren't a place to rant if you wish a civilized conversation.