Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by Holophonist Originally posted by DMKano If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
Don't bother arguing... The people making those comments are probably single and jobless because they fail to understand that first impressions matter - and that it will take you tremendous extra efforts later to convince someone their first impression was wrong (be it: recruiter, potential date or gamer).
What's funny is that they will call players "entitled" whereas the developers of the games they are defending are the ones who are entitled - thinking you can get a gamer's money without making your product as attractive as it can be to players in the first place. Instead the developers release poorly designed products, full of bugs, unimaginatively cloned from other products, etc. And these "forum dwellers" then lecture us and tell us we are entitled because we don't want to play that crap, and that we should purchase the game from those developers.
But developers are not entitled to my money. They have to deserve it. I'm entitled to fun, otherwise they don't get my money. Simple. They are selling, I'm choosing to buy or not.
*This* is what is wrong with games right now. That they are crap and uninteresting (whether you've invested 20 minutes or 100 hours of your life). That some people are ready to spend hours of boredom in a specific game to enjoy it in the end, whereas they could be enjoying the game from the get go.
Masochism? No, I don't think so. I suppose it's all about elitism and feeling "special/superior" because you've been eating shit and survived, so you can eat the raspberry muffin in the end. I call that stupid and wrong.
Enough rambling anyway, not that anyone cares.
It's a rare sight indeed to find a post so condescending and so wrong at the same time. You have COMPLETELY missed the point. It's not at all about buginess. It's not about fun vs work. You don't have a claim on the word fun. The entire point is whether you want a game that hooks you early because they've spent extra effort on polish and first impression aspects of the game. Or a game that focuses on the depth and complexity of its systems and less on the superficial first impressions.
I'll use your own example against you. You bring up first impressions on a date. My fiance was, suffice it to say, not interested in me when we first met. I wasn't good at first impressions. But now we have an extremely warm and loving relationship that neither her nor I would trade for anything. By your logic she should have just ditched me because "first impressions matter."
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Do you think game designers are putting in customized character creation "for fun" - it's there to hook the player, otherwise they'd never bother with it.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
This is one area Wildstar dropped the ball. Level 1-20 is meh at best and I almost stopped playing in beta over a year ago because of this. I kept active on the beta forums to see how things where changing but stopped playing for a long time. Common theme was how fun the game got after level 20 so I pushed though. Im really glad I did or I would have missed out on what this game has to offer. If you can do it, get to level 20 and do a dungeon run, if you dont love it then, you know this game is not for you. Level 20 is when most of the cool things start happening, you can aford play housing, crafting and doing dungeon runs. All of this is so well done it will blow your mind.
As a healer in every MMO I play, and as a PvP preferred player, I have to say that Wildstar fell woefully short of my expectations.
Healing in Wildstar, at least the first 20 levels or so, was really boring. There was like two or three healing buttons that were very similar to each other and not very graphically pleasing. Not to mention that the heals really did not have much impact at all.
World of Warcraft healing in pvp is leaps and bounds better then what I have experienced in Wildstar so far. Many other games healing is far better in PvE from what I have experienced so far.
Now admittedly maybe DPS is a lot of fun in Wildstar, given the freedom of movement and the cone attacks, but as a healer myself this is not looking good.
[quote]Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by XiaokiOriginally posted by DMKanoIf you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.Thats not instant gratification enough!You should be having fun in an MMO 20 minutes BEFORE you ever log into the game.I mean, seriously, are people judging MMOs based on the first 20 minutes now? Pathetic.Seriously its game design 101 - 20 min is what you have to gain a customer in a MMO.
If fun doesn't happen within 20min for an average gamer they move on.
Not anymore - ESO and WS are the last 2 AAA games to want a piece of WoW pie as both of them funded 6+ years ago when large studios still thought to cash in on WoWs players.
Today no AAA studio is thinking like this, they all realize that WoW ship has sailed and is gone.
IMO WS is possibly the last AAA themepark we'll see period.
i disagree
when i say a piece of wow pie - I'm referring to short term playing
i think any new game is supporting the ability to log into game for 20 minutes or less
[quote]Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by XiaokiOriginally posted by DMKanoIf you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Thats not instant gratification enough!You should be having fun in an MMO 20 minutes BEFORE you ever log into the game.I mean, seriously, are people judging MMOs based on the first 20 minutes now? Pathetic.Seriously its game design 101 - 20 min is what you have to gain a customer in a MMO.
If fun doesn't happen within 20min for an average gamer they move on.
all i will say is AoC. nuff said
Well I wish the genre would stop making games for people who need to be having fun from the first 20 minutes.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Someone thats a fan of ArcheAge shouldnt be saying this. That game has a totally generic first 20 minutes that i found completely non engaging and devoid of soul.
That said, Wildstar's first impression is even worse because the UI is such a mess.
Originally posted by flizzer If I play a game and Im not having fun within 20 levels, I would consider that a problem. Why bother with a game that is simply not fun for you? The games I play the most are LOTRO and GW2 and both games hooked me almost immediately. I don't believe there is some level where games start getting fun. It sounds like the game is just not for you then.
If you think about it, why would any body slog threw 20 lvl's to finally have fun in a game. I would quit long before that. Specially with an mmo. 20 lvl's before the fun starts is just sad. I couldn't go threw that.
Not anymore - ESO and WS are the last 2 AAA games to want a piece of WoW pie as both of them funded 6+ years ago when large studios still thought to cash in on WoWs players.
Today no AAA studio is thinking like this, they all realize that WoW ship has sailed and is gone.
IMO WS is possibly the last AAA themepark we'll see period.
i disagree
when i say a piece of wow pie - I'm referring to short term playing
i think any new game is supporting the ability to log into game for 20 minutes or less
and get something meaningful done
I personally think MMOs are changing and WS fits in that. Where Themepark and some parts from Sandbox are added. IMO this hybrid will be the best model going forward. Where gamers get a bit of both. Like WS housing, its a little sandbox and a little themepark. Warplots the same again. Going forward its more about where you want the slider to sit, 40% Sandbox, 60% Themepark or 50% 50%. IMO this is where the win is. EQN is another following this.
Originally posted by flizzer If I play a game and Im not having fun within 20 levels, I would consider that a problem. Why bother with a game that is simply not fun for you? The games I play the most are LOTRO and GW2 and both games hooked me almost immediately. I don't believe there is some level where games start getting fun. It sounds like the game is just not for you then.
If you think about it, why would any body slog threw 20 lvl's to finally have fun in a game. I would quit long before that. Specially with an mmo. 20 lvl's before the fun starts is just sad. I couldn't go threw that.
A. Because you can get through 20 levels over a weekend, if your a real MMOer thats no big deal.
B. Because of what comes @ level 20+ Some of the best MMOing I have seen. Pure skill pased fun thats easy to learn and hard to master. No Carebear game here, play 100% or die. If you sick of easy mode games... this is the winner. No one but hardcore gamer need apply.
Originally posted by flizzer If I play a game and Im not having fun within 20 levels, I would consider that a problem. Why bother with a game that is simply not fun for you? The games I play the most are LOTRO and GW2 and both games hooked me almost immediately. I don't believe there is some level where games start getting fun. It sounds like the game is just not for you then.
If you think about it, why would any body slog threw 20 lvl's to finally have fun in a game. I would quit long before that. Specially with an mmo. 20 lvl's before the fun starts is just sad. I couldn't go threw that.
Totally agreed, I started playing Wildstar and got overwhelmed by the amount of quests and the lack of connection between them, I couldnt find a quest chain that kept me hooked to the game
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
How so? Playing games is about entertainment, if you're not entertained there's a problem some where, be it not to your taste, or boring design.
I can't think of any design principle I've heard that says "don't worry about it" "they'll have some fun 20 hrs from now"..
ok this is whats wrong with society as a whole in the gaming industry...
We treat MMORPGs like they are on the same level as other games ... farmville, Mario Bros. and such.... Get over your selves.
The amount of time it takes to create an MMORPG i beyond you feeble minded cretins. "If its not fun in the first 20 minutes its a bust?" WTF!?!?
20 minutes into most MMOs and youre still in the Tutorial ... For crying out loud... are you fraggin kidding me? God damned Gimme generation pissants didnt screw up WoW or other games enough? Now your starting on games in Beta?
Its simple... Play the game get to end content then your griping has merit.
Couldn't find this original post, so I used a quoted post to respond,
First of all, I didn't gripe about a single game in that post, I wasn't even talking about Wildstar, I have no clue how much fun it is or how much fun it lacks...
One of the keys to fun in just about any game is engaging the player, if you can't do that you are most likely going to find they will not stick around.
I find it extremely hard to believe anyone would play through possibly 100's of hours of content if they're not engaged or having fun doing so. I don't care what genre the game belongs to. Who plays for that long on the off chance they might enjoy something at endgame? That sounds like a form of masochism to me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is the thing, wildstar is clearly polished and rich with content so it comes down to taste, but what we have is endless I played a game for 10 hours etc and it's rubbish. we have people who hate questing but think somehow magically questing will be amazingly different - it won't, if you hate questing ans lore you will hate every mmorg themepark and yet they are aghast with horror at the levelling in wildstar. I mean why buy a game of you don't like the genre?!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by DMKanoIf you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Thats not instant gratification enough!You should be having fun in an MMO 20 minutes BEFORE you ever log into the game.I mean, seriously, are people judging MMOs based on the first 20 minutes now? Pathetic.
Seriously its game design 101 - 20 min is what you have to gain a customer in a MMO.
If fun doesn't happen within 20min for an average gamer they move on.
all i will say is AoC. nuff said
Well I wish the genre would stop making games for people who need to be having fun from the first 20 minutes.
I still do not get your stance here, you really think games should only be about accomplishment? As that's been your only real reasoning behind slogging through stuff you might not enjoy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom This is the thing, wildstar is clearly polished and rich with content so it comes down to taste, but what we have is endless I played a game for 10 hours etc and it's rubbish. we have people who hate questing but think somehow magically questing will be amazingly different - it won't, if you hate questing ans lore you will hate every mmorg themepark and yet they are aghast with horror at the levelling in wildstar. I mean why buy a game of you don't like the genre?!
Just because I dislike one implementation of questing doesn't mean I'd hate every form of questing.You seem to forget to mention questing is about presentation and proper usage. You speak of questing as though it's the same in every themepark.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom A game doesn't fail if it engages many, the player has just made a poor choIce of game - then tried to blame the game lol.
No one blamed a game for their lack of interest in it based on taste.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom A game doesn't fail if it engages many, the player has just made a poor choIce of game - then tried to blame the game lol.
No one blamed a game for their lack of interest in it based on taste.
Actually when you say a game is rubbish and complain about it you have done several things:
1. Failed to take responsibility for researching the game to ensure it was for you. This would be fine, but posting comments like a game is 'junk' because you personally picked a game badly is blaming the game and passing of subjecting comments as objective observations.
2. When you complain about questing and levelling in a theme park mmorg you are doing the equivalent of buying a football game and complaining about the constant need to kick a football. If you don't like questing, don't buy a themepark mmorg, its a core part of the genre that people love.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom This is the thing, wildstar is clearly polished and rich with content so it comes down to taste, but what we have is endless I played a game for 10 hours etc and it's rubbish. we have people who hate questing but think somehow magically questing will be amazingly different - it won't, if you hate questing ans lore you will hate every mmorg themepark and yet they are aghast with horror at the levelling in wildstar. I mean why buy a game of you don't like the genre?!
Just because I dislike one implementation of questing doesn't mean I'd hate every form of questing.You seem to forget to mention questing is about presentation and proper usage. You speak of questing as though it's the same in every themepark.
What kind of questing should there be? Wildstar questing looked as good as anything i've seen in a mmorg so far, and I have not seen any objective observations. Its not the quality if the writing or quest format that is getting challenged here is it, its just that many are saying 'its rubbish' What we really have is people who don't like questing and don't care about lore.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom A game doesn't fail if it engages many, the player has just made a poor choIce of game - then tried to blame the game lol.
No one blamed a game for their lack of interest in it based on taste.
Actually when you say a game is rubbish and complain about it you have done several things:
1. Failed to take responsibility for researching the game to ensure it was for you. This would be fine, but posting comments like a game is 'junk' because you personally picked a game badly is blaming the game and passing of subjecting comments as objective observations.
2. When you complain about questing and levelling in a theme park mmorg you are doing the equivalent of buying a football game and complaining about the constant need to kick a football. If you don't like questing, don't buy a themepark mmorg, its a core part of the genre that people love.
I agree with Point one here ... I check games before signing up, do not get sucked into hype, do your own checking and know what it is before you drop money,
As to point to .. again bang on ... it is an mmo ... Questing is part of the game ... leveling is part of the game. Try to look at the less focused parts .. like the path system, Crafting, housing or anything else it has to offer. If you still do not like everything it has to offer ... Maybe the MMO genre is not for you?
Originally posted by Bladestrom A game doesn't fail if it engages many, the player has just made a poor choIce of game - then tried to blame the game lol.
No one blamed a game for their lack of interest in it based on taste.
Actually when you say a game is rubbish and complain about it you have done several things:
1. Failed to take responsibility for researching the game to ensure it was for you. This would be fine, but posting comments like a game is 'junk' because you personally picked a game badly is blaming the game and passing of subjecting comments as objective observations.
2. When you complain about questing and levelling in a theme park mmorg you are doing the equivalent of buying a football game and complaining about the constant need to kick a football. If you don't like questing, don't buy a themepark mmorg, its a core part of the genre that people love.
I agree with your points here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom This is the thing, wildstar is clearly polished and rich with content so it comes down to taste, but what we have is endless I played a game for 10 hours etc and it's rubbish. we have people who hate questing but think somehow magically questing will be amazingly different - it won't, if you hate questing ans lore you will hate every mmorg themepark and yet they are aghast with horror at the levelling in wildstar. I mean why buy a game of you don't like the genre?!
Just because I dislike one implementation of questing doesn't mean I'd hate every form of questing.You seem to forget to mention questing is about presentation and proper usage. You speak of questing as though it's the same in every themepark.
What kind of questing should there be? Wildstar questing looked as good as anything i've seen in a mmorg so far, and I have not seen any objective observations. Its not the quality if the writing or quest format that is getting challenged here is it, its just that many are saying 'its rubbish' What we really have is people who don't like questing and don't care about lore.
I don't know what wildstar questing is like, it's fundamental design turns me off enough that I haven't tried it. IE I highly doubt it's a game for my taste..
I was referring to the general subject of MMO questing, you spoke of it like you get the same questing experience in every game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom This is the thing, wildstar is clearly polished and rich with content so it comes down to taste, but what we have is endless I played a game for 10 hours etc and it's rubbish. we have people who hate questing but think somehow magically questing will be amazingly different - it won't, if you hate questing ans lore you will hate every mmorg themepark and yet they are aghast with horror at the levelling in wildstar. I mean why buy a game of you don't like the genre?!
Just because I dislike one implementation of questing doesn't mean I'd hate every form of questing.You seem to forget to mention questing is about presentation and proper usage. You speak of questing as though it's the same in every themepark.
What kind of questing should there be? Wildstar questing looked as good as anything i've seen in a mmorg so far, and I have not seen any objective observations. Its not the quality if the writing or quest format that is getting challenged here is it, its just that many are saying 'its rubbish' What we really have is people who don't like questing and don't care about lore.
I don't know what wildstar questing is like, it's fundamental design turns me off enough that I haven't tried it. IE I highly doubt it's a game for my taste..
I was referring to the general subject of MMO questing, you spoke of it like you get the same questing experience in every game.
Beyond writing and lore cohesion with the virtual world they are all basically the same, if people don't enjoy these aspects they are going to hate levelling in general - no amount of great writing will fix that (they click past quest text!)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Beyond writing and lore cohesion with the virtual world they are all basically the same, if people don't enjoy these aspects they are going to hate levelling in general - no amount of great writing will fix that (they click past quest text!)
Well there's also pacing, forms of activity, how implementation is handled (IE quest hubs or promotes exploration) etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
Don't bother arguing... The people making those comments are probably single and jobless because they fail to understand that first impressions matter - and that it will take you tremendous extra efforts later to convince someone their first impression was wrong (be it: recruiter, potential date or gamer).
What's funny is that they will call players "entitled" whereas the developers of the games they are defending are the ones who are entitled - thinking you can get a gamer's money without making your product as attractive as it can be to players in the first place. Instead the developers release poorly designed products, full of bugs, unimaginatively cloned from other products, etc. And these "forum dwellers" then lecture us and tell us we are entitled because we don't want to play that crap, and that we should purchase the game from those developers.
But developers are not entitled to my money. They have to deserve it. I'm entitled to fun, otherwise they don't get my money. Simple. They are selling, I'm choosing to buy or not.
*This* is what is wrong with games right now. That they are crap and uninteresting (whether you've invested 20 minutes or 100 hours of your life). That some people are ready to spend hours of boredom in a specific game to enjoy it in the end, whereas they could be enjoying the game from the get go.
Masochism? No, I don't think so. I suppose it's all about elitism and feeling "special/superior" because you've been eating shit and survived, so you can eat the raspberry muffin in the end. I call that stupid and wrong.
Enough rambling anyway, not that anyone cares.
It's a rare sight indeed to find a post so condescending and so wrong at the same time. You have COMPLETELY missed the point. It's not at all about buginess. It's not about fun vs work. You don't have a claim on the word fun. The entire point is whether you want a game that hooks you early because they've spent extra effort on polish and first impression aspects of the game. Or a game that focuses on the depth and complexity of its systems and less on the superficial first impressions.I'll use your own example against you. You bring up first impressions on a date. My fiance was, suffice it to say, not interested in me when we first met. I wasn't good at first impressions. But now we have an extremely warm and loving relationship that neither her nor I would trade for anything. By your logic she should have just ditched me because "first impressions matter."
mmos are still fun
my only disappointment is that mmos cater more to soloers and short term play sessions post WOW
that's what WOW demonstrated in 2004 to be a popular playstyle
- and mmos want a piece of that cash pie
EQ2 fan sites
This is one area Wildstar dropped the ball. Level 1-20 is meh at best and I almost stopped playing in beta over a year ago because of this. I kept active on the beta forums to see how things where changing but stopped playing for a long time. Common theme was how fun the game got after level 20 so I pushed though. Im really glad I did or I would have missed out on what this game has to offer. If you can do it, get to level 20 and do a dungeon run, if you dont love it then, you know this game is not for you. Level 20 is when most of the cool things start happening, you can aford play housing, crafting and doing dungeon runs. All of this is so well done it will blow your mind.
As a healer in every MMO I play, and as a PvP preferred player, I have to say that Wildstar fell woefully short of my expectations.
Healing in Wildstar, at least the first 20 levels or so, was really boring. There was like two or three healing buttons that were very similar to each other and not very graphically pleasing. Not to mention that the heals really did not have much impact at all.
World of Warcraft healing in pvp is leaps and bounds better then what I have experienced in Wildstar so far. Many other games healing is far better in PvE from what I have experienced so far.
Now admittedly maybe DPS is a lot of fun in Wildstar, given the freedom of movement and the cone attacks, but as a healer myself this is not looking good.
[quote]Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Xiaoki Originally posted by DMKano If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed. Thats not instant gratification enough! You should be having fun in an MMO 20 minutes BEFORE you ever log into the game. I mean, seriously, are people judging MMOs based on the first 20 minutes now? Pathetic.Seriously its game design 101 - 20 min is what you have to gain a customer in a MMO.
If fun doesn't happen within 20min for an average gamer they move on.
all i will say is AoC. nuff said
i disagree
when i say a piece of wow pie - I'm referring to short term playing
i think any new game is supporting the ability to log into game for 20 minutes or less
and get something meaningful done
EQ2 fan sites
Seriously its game design 101 - 20 min is what you have to gain a customer in a MMO.
If fun doesn't happen within 20min for an average gamer they move on.
all i will say is AoC. nuff said
Well I wish the genre would stop making games for people who need to be having fun from the first 20 minutes.Someone thats a fan of ArcheAge shouldnt be saying this. That game has a totally generic first 20 minutes that i found completely non engaging and devoid of soul.
That said, Wildstar's first impression is even worse because the UI is such a mess.
If you think about it, why would any body slog threw 20 lvl's to finally have fun in a game. I would quit long before that. Specially with an mmo. 20 lvl's before the fun starts is just sad. I couldn't go threw that.
I personally think MMOs are changing and WS fits in that. Where Themepark and some parts from Sandbox are added. IMO this hybrid will be the best model going forward. Where gamers get a bit of both. Like WS housing, its a little sandbox and a little themepark. Warplots the same again. Going forward its more about where you want the slider to sit, 40% Sandbox, 60% Themepark or 50% 50%. IMO this is where the win is. EQN is another following this.
A. Because you can get through 20 levels over a weekend, if your a real MMOer thats no big deal.
B. Because of what comes @ level 20+ Some of the best MMOing I have seen. Pure skill pased fun thats easy to learn and hard to master. No Carebear game here, play 100% or die. If you sick of easy mode games... this is the winner. No one but hardcore gamer need apply.
Totally agreed, I started playing Wildstar and got overwhelmed by the amount of quests and the lack of connection between them, I couldnt find a quest chain that kept me hooked to the game
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Couldn't find this original post, so I used a quoted post to respond,
First of all, I didn't gripe about a single game in that post, I wasn't even talking about Wildstar, I have no clue how much fun it is or how much fun it lacks...
One of the keys to fun in just about any game is engaging the player, if you can't do that you are most likely going to find they will not stick around.
I find it extremely hard to believe anyone would play through possibly 100's of hours of content if they're not engaged or having fun doing so. I don't care what genre the game belongs to. Who plays for that long on the off chance they might enjoy something at endgame? That sounds like a form of masochism to me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I still do not get your stance here, you really think games should only be about accomplishment? As that's been your only real reasoning behind slogging through stuff you might not enjoy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Just because I dislike one implementation of questing doesn't mean I'd hate every form of questing.You seem to forget to mention questing is about presentation and proper usage. You speak of questing as though it's the same in every themepark.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No one blamed a game for their lack of interest in it based on taste.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually when you say a game is rubbish and complain about it you have done several things:
1. Failed to take responsibility for researching the game to ensure it was for you. This would be fine, but posting comments like a game is 'junk' because you personally picked a game badly is blaming the game and passing of subjecting comments as objective observations.
2. When you complain about questing and levelling in a theme park mmorg you are doing the equivalent of buying a football game and complaining about the constant need to kick a football. If you don't like questing, don't buy a themepark mmorg, its a core part of the genre that people love.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
What kind of questing should there be? Wildstar questing looked as good as anything i've seen in a mmorg so far, and I have not seen any objective observations. Its not the quality if the writing or quest format that is getting challenged here is it, its just that many are saying 'its rubbish' What we really have is people who don't like questing and don't care about lore.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I agree with Point one here ... I check games before signing up, do not get sucked into hype, do your own checking and know what it is before you drop money,
As to point to .. again bang on ... it is an mmo ... Questing is part of the game ... leveling is part of the game. Try to look at the less focused parts .. like the path system, Crafting, housing or anything else it has to offer. If you still do not like everything it has to offer ... Maybe the MMO genre is not for you?
I agree with your points here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't know what wildstar questing is like, it's fundamental design turns me off enough that I haven't tried it. IE I highly doubt it's a game for my taste..
I was referring to the general subject of MMO questing, you spoke of it like you get the same questing experience in every game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Beyond writing and lore cohesion with the virtual world they are all basically the same, if people don't enjoy these aspects they are going to hate levelling in general - no amount of great writing will fix that (they click past quest text!)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Well there's also pacing, forms of activity, how implementation is handled (IE quest hubs or promotes exploration) etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson