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Did Trion Just Made ArchAge P2W?

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  • ManasongManasong Member Posts: 208
    Originally posted by Jabas
    Originally posted by Kangaroomouse
    Originally posted by Pie_Rat

    Gotto love that CD reduction on LP pots!

    This game is now officially a pile of crap. Thanks Trion, job well done.

    Was pretty obvious where this was going after i saw the LP system and the excuses of the fan base that it is to "balance the economy".

    ----

    the only thing this LP system balances is the check book of Trion.

    The LP system is nice to balance the economy and make everthing that takes LP to produce sell in AH.

    I really like it and i wich more games come with equal systems, the big question is if it is well implemented or not, the implementation can be discuss, alot of details can be balance, but the base propose is nice.

     

    It doesn't balance the economy, it doesn't influences supply and demand, the AH of other mmos gets flooded because the demand is almost non-existant, if theres no demand for low level stuff it will be flooded sooner or later, LP or no LP as all LP does is timegates the flooding, the only way to balance the economy would be to add item decay.

     

    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
     

    The fact that I was never going to dominate is relative. Forget the top dogs. What about within the same brackets? That other player who isn't much better than you, who you run across in the battle field and yet you don't stand a chance in hell against  because he spends more in the shop? You are dead, he's not, simple as that but hey, at least in your heart, you know you worked harder for what you have than he did (In the game).

    Joining Mega guilds doesn't fix the problem, it will still boil down to who collectively spends the most.

     

     

    And who is that guy ? how do you identify him in game from all the other players and make sure you only fight him? When someone kills you, will you feel better knowing they worked harder for it...how would you ever even know.

    All of this is a forum argument that doesn't apply in game. When someone kills you you're dead. It doesn't make it ok if the player spends 18 hrs a day in game or $1000 a month. You died he didn't and if you need an excuse for that you'll find one no matter what.

    If you're against the principle of spending more to get more fine be against it. But hypothetical arguments to rationalize it or make it sound better don't work for people who know how a pvp game really works. The groups of people who put the most into their collective goal will dominate the game. Money or no money these people will invest more into the game than anyone here ever will. The solo players no matter how much they spend will always just be prey when they run into these groups of people.

    Really? Come on. OK Fine. Let's put aside "that guy" argument. Skill has nothing to do with this game and it's going to show. No, I don't have in game evidence, and if I am wrong, I'll be happy to announce it to the entire community.

    (I won't be)

    I never said anything about skill ? I said large numbers of people working together ( not just a mass mob of ppl in the same guild ) will dominate this game regardless of what a single player and how much they spend does. 

    As to your announcement. I'll be impressed if you even play past the first month or 2.

     

    What if the that single player who spends the most money on the game joins the biggest guild in the game and decides to just PK everyone everytime because he has the most resources and the best gear? You think all big spenders are going to be lone-wolfs? What about during sieges? Both sides are limited on resources, if one side has a single player with two brain cells and very powerfull gear the other side is gonna have a very very small chance of winning. It doesn't really matter how much effort you put into the game, the other side can put as much effort+money and win.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Originally posted by Manasong
     

    What if the that single player who spends the most money on the game joins the biggest guild in the game and decides to just PK everyone everytime because he has the most resources and the best gear? You think all big spenders are going to be lone-wolfs? What about during sieges? Both sides are limited on resources, if one side has a single player with two brain cells and very powerfull gear the other side is gonna have a very very small chance of winning. It doesn't really matter how much effort you put into the game, the other side can put as much effort+money and win.

    Oh you mean like every other game out there .... like buying gold or multiple accounts

  • ManasongManasong Member Posts: 208
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by Manasong
     

    What if the that single player who spends the most money on the game joins the biggest guild in the game and decides to just PK everyone everytime because he has the most resources and the best gear? You think all big spenders are going to be lone-wolfs? What about during sieges? Both sides are limited on resources, if one side has a single player with two brain cells and very powerfull gear the other side is gonna have a very very small chance of winning. It doesn't really matter how much effort you put into the game, the other side can put as much effort+money and win.

    Oh you mean like every other game out there .... like buying gold or multiple accounts

    Really? Do other successful games with competitive pvp aspects have the BiS gear takes literally months to grind and being able to easily convert money into gold to instantly buy or easily craft the best gear? You don't even need to have BiS to be powerfull, just have a rarer set + who-knows-how-many expensive food buffs and you can win.

    Or are you talking about third party gold sellers? These are against the rules and a non-factor if Trion tries to crackdown on it.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Originally posted by Manasong
    Really? Do other successful games with competitive pvp aspects have the BiS gear takes literally months to grind and being able to easily convert money into gold to instantly buy or easily craft the best gear? You don't even need to have BiS to be powerfull, just have a rarer set + who-knows-how-many expensive food buffs and you can win.

     

    Strange ... I know Tiger Woods won a lot of golf tournament  ,,,,but I still golf

                 .... I know the LA Kings won the Stanley Cup ...but I still like hockey

    but I'll be dammed if I know .....who won WOW or DAOC or who is number #1 in ESO ....actually I'm not even sure you can win but I'm positive spending $1000 + a month to beat someone spending $15 a month isn't winning

  • ManasongManasong Member Posts: 208
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by Manasong
    Really? Do other successful games with competitive pvp aspects have the BiS gear takes literally months to grind and being able to easily convert money into gold to instantly buy or easily craft the best gear? You don't even need to have BiS to be powerfull, just have a rarer set + who-knows-how-many expensive food buffs and you can win.

     

    Strange ... I know Tiger Woods won a lot of golf tournament  ,,,,but I still golf

                 .... I know the LA Kings won the Stanley Cup ...but I still like hockey

    but I'll be dammed if I know .....who won WOW or DAOC or who is number #1 in ESO ....actually I'm not even sure you can win but I'm positive spending $1000 + a month to beat someone spending $15 a month isn't winning

    Are you high? Your post makes little sense.

    Tiger Woods won golf tournaments with skill, not with a 1m dollar golf club that increases his accuracy by 80%. He paid trainers with the money he earned during his life, not with money summoned from another dimension. You still play golf because tiger woods has no interaction with you, he does not come into the local tournaments you play and uses his 1m club to easily get first place, the local tournaments aren't something you have to spend a few thousands of dollars just to be competitive, that would be very disencouraging if you wanted to participate in more tournaments.

    People are number 1 in DAOC, WoW, ESO with SKILL, not by spending 1k and getting easy OP gear, sure, you can buy a lvl90 in wow (and that made a lot of people angry) but that doesn't have BiS gear and it has very little impact on PvP since you are not more powerfull than the majority of the playerbase.

    The gear grind in AA is supposed to take months, those who do get the gear are obviously way more powerful than those who do not have it, it's OK as long as it's EARNED, you did what the game asked you to do to win the gear, not bypass and buy best the stuff. This is a game where gear is VERY important, we have A LOT of competitive pvp, having people running around with the best gear DOES matter, you don't even need to have BiS to be powerful, just look what some good gear and a lot of expensive buffs can do: 

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Originally posted by Manasong
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by Manasong
     

    Tiger Woods won golf tournaments with skill, not with a 1m dollar golf club that increases his accuracy by 80%. He paid trainers with the money he earned during his life, not with money summoned from another dimension. You still play golf because tiger woods has no interaction with you, he does not come into the local tournaments you play and uses his 1m club to easily get first place, the local tournaments aren't something you have to spend a few thousands of dollars just to be competitive, that would be very disencouraging if you wanted to participate in more tournaments.

    People are number 1 in DAOC, WoW, ESO with SKILL, not by spending 1k and getting easy OP gear, sure, you can buy a lvl90 in wow (and that made a lot of people angry) but that doesn't have BiS gear and it has very little impact on PvP since you are not more powerfull than the majority of the playerbase.

    The gear grind in AA is supposed to take months, those who do get the gear are obviously way more powerful than those who do not have it, it's OK as long as it's EARNED, you did what the game asked you to do to win the gear, not bypass and buy best the stuff. This is a game where gear is VERY important, we have A LOT of competitive pvp, having people running around with the best gear DOES matter, you don't even need to have BiS to be powerful, just look what some good gear and a lot of expensive buffs can do: 

    LOL actually Tiger Woods was endorsed by a company that built and designed whole sets of golf clubs specifically for his swing ....so not only did he have the skills he also had the multi-million dollar club advantage, My point being although I've played 1000's of rounds and enjoyed most of them I  never had any false hope that I was going to beat Tiger Woods in his prime or on an off day .

    There really aren't winners in MMO"s ...they are designed to bring fun ,relief and a bit of challenge to the general mass of players not as a contest to find the next great" white hope" of MMO gamming .Having said that I don't give a flying fiddlers fuck if some idiot decides to spend 2000 a week to win in a game that has no winner .

    Don't get me wrong here I believe an LP system was the best way to go with everyone starting out with 5k or 2.5k max and the skill would be managing your game and play style inside that system ....bought LP sucks without a doubt but just add the whale to the list of hackers,exploiters, cheaters and asshats the average player encounters every day

  • Atis-nobAtis-nob Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Russian AA players are happy and sad at same time. Happy, because their CashShop is least screwd up, sad, because they cant threaten their publisher with jumping to "civilized EU version" if they make CS worse.
  • JDis25JDis25 Member RarePosts: 1,353

    What about Free Time? Does the amount of time you put into a game necessarily mean you get an advantage over everyone? In standardized PvP, all players start of equally such as League of Legends or Counter-Strike, no matter how much time they have dumped into the game.

     

    You are all arguing that people who pay money will get a slight increase with how quick they can produce results, but is it really fair that no-lifers who have all the time in the world to play deserve a better experience than those who are willing to support the game financially and maybe have a job, or friends?

    Besides LP doesn't convert to gear and better stats instantly either. You still need materials, farms, grow times, in game gold, etc.

     

    What you think is "Fair and balanced" isn't the same thing for everyone.

    Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War
    Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by JDis25

    What about Free Time? Does the amount of time you put into a game necessarily mean you get an advantage over everyone? In standardized PvP, all players start of equally such as League of Legends or Counter-Strike, no matter how much time they have dumped into the game.

     

    You are all arguing that people who pay money will get a slight increase with how quick they can produce results, but is it really fair that no-lifers who have all the time in the world to play deserve a better experience than those who are willing to support the game financially and maybe have a job, or friends?

    Besides LP doesn't convert to gear and better stats instantly either. You still need materials, farms, grow times, in game gold, etc.

     

    What you think is "Fair and balanced" isn't the same thing for everyone.

    What I think is fair and balanced is to leave real life at the log in screen. That's why I play RPGs in the 1st place. What I want is for everyone to pay the same fee to play the same game and everyone has the same opportunities and restrictions across the board. 

    But it seems, that's never going to happen

     

  • JDis25JDis25 Member RarePosts: 1,353
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by JDis25

    What about Free Time? Does the amount of time you put into a game necessarily mean you get an advantage over everyone? In standardized PvP, all players start of equally such as League of Legends or Counter-Strike, no matter how much time they have dumped into the game.

     

    You are all arguing that people who pay money will get a slight increase with how quick they can produce results, but is it really fair that no-lifers who have all the time in the world to play deserve a better experience than those who are willing to support the game financially and maybe have a job, or friends?

    Besides LP doesn't convert to gear and better stats instantly either. You still need materials, farms, grow times, in game gold, etc.

     

    What you think is "Fair and balanced" isn't the same thing for everyone.

    What I think is fair and balanced is to leave real life at the log in screen. That's why I play RPGs in the 1st place. What I want is for everyone to pay the same fee to play the same game and everyone has the same opportunities and restrictions across the board. 

    But it seems, that's never going to happen

     

    You are playing games that cost real $ to produce, market, and run. So as much as you want the full game experience for free, you are unlikely to find that anywhere. You could play an old game like runescape? or similar freeware/browser RPGs.

    Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War
    Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by JDis25
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by JDis25

    What about Free Time? Does the amount of time you put into a game necessarily mean you get an advantage over everyone? In standardized PvP, all players start of equally such as League of Legends or Counter-Strike, no matter how much time they have dumped into the game.

     

    You are all arguing that people who pay money will get a slight increase with how quick they can produce results, but is it really fair that no-lifers who have all the time in the world to play deserve a better experience than those who are willing to support the game financially and maybe have a job, or friends?

    Besides LP doesn't convert to gear and better stats instantly either. You still need materials, farms, grow times, in game gold, etc.

     

    What you think is "Fair and balanced" isn't the same thing for everyone.

    What I think is fair and balanced is to leave real life at the log in screen. That's why I play RPGs in the 1st place. What I want is for everyone to pay the same fee to play the same game and everyone has the same opportunities and restrictions across the board. 

    But it seems, that's never going to happen

     

    You are playing games that cost real $ to produce, market, and run. So as much as you want the full game experience for free, you are unlikely to find that anywhere. You could play an old game like runescape? or similar freeware/browser RPGs.

    Who said free? I said fee.

  • Atis-nobAtis-nob Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by JDis25

    What about Free Time? Does the amount of time you put into a game necessarily mean you get an advantage over everyone? In standardized PvP, all players start of equally such as League of Legends or Counter-Strike, no matter how much time they have dumped into the game.

     

    You are all arguing that people who pay money will get a slight increase with how quick they can produce results, but is it really fair that no-lifers who have all the time in the world to play deserve a better experience than those who are willing to support the game financially and maybe have a job, or friends?

    Besides LP doesn't convert to gear and better stats instantly either. You still need materials, farms, grow times, in game gold, etc.

     

    What you think is "Fair and balanced" isn't the same thing for everyone.

     

    Nolifer will just pop potion every 4 hours and dominate. People with lack of time wont be able even to use Patron's LP. So LP dont limit nolifers, they just monetize them.

     

    LP pots can be converted to gold via AH. With enough money you can buy tons of LP pots and become local millionare in few days without even playing a game.

     

    And yes, investing time in game should make you stronger than others. Guy, who works 8h and plays 1h per day will have better career than guy who plays 8h and works 1h. Why should he be better in game too?

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963

    So true people aren't happy on this forum unless they bash every single MMO on the market , review every one, that has been near release, people here bash them all, maybe MMO's aren't your thing anymore??

     

  • Atis-nobAtis-nob Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    So true people aren't happy on this forum unless they bash every single MMO on the market , review every one, that has been near release, people here bash them all, maybe MMO's aren't your thing anymore??

     

    Making games - business, playing games - hobby. Developers usually dont play their games, except for testing. What exactly cant you understand?

    People bash bad games, current crop of MMOs is bad. <- any particular word in this statement that confuses you?

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    So true people aren't happy on this forum unless they bash every single MMO on the market , review every one, that has been near release, people here bash them all, maybe MMO's aren't your thing anymore??

     

    What's worse people discussing games, or those trying to ridicule others for having opinions about games or their mechanics/models they don't like? I'd go with the latter.

    So tired have these types of posts become. Discuss the opinion not the people who post them.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    So true people aren't happy on this forum unless they bash every single MMO on the market , review every one, that has been near release, people here bash them all, maybe MMO's aren't your thing anymore??

     

    who's bashing? most of the people complaining are those who have been playing since the start and not just on here. It's disappointment more than anything. They made unneeded changes, if they where needed they could have made betters ones.

    I'm stil waiting for someone to counter argue with why the changes are actually good.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    So true people aren't happy on this forum unless they bash every single MMO on the market , review every one, that has been near release, people here bash them all, maybe MMO's aren't your thing anymore??

     

    Way to make a sweeping generalization. I'd actually be willing to be you won't find a single poster on this forum who would truly fit your description. Pretty sure everyone's got at least one game they like. And there are many of us who feel like this genre is broken and this particular game is pushing that envelop by offering what I consider to be the worst business model in the history of the genre.

    So for speaking out against it........well, you know the rest.

     

     

     

  • ThestrainThestrain Member CommonPosts: 390
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    So true people aren't happy on this forum unless they bash every single MMO on the market , review every one, that has been near release, people here bash them all, maybe MMO's aren't your thing anymore??

     

    This argument again? should everyone start writing their own books make their own music and movies too only because happen to dislike it and criticise it?

    Who needs to move on? those who get so emotionally vested in video games or the people who are capable of seeing the faults and don't get offended only because someone said bad words about a game?

    Think about it and let me know. And may i suggest an AA fan site to you? you will be more at home there.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Member UncommonPosts: 689
    Awesome job Trion.  Good to see you are a shady company like the rest of them.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?

    No, what this reply is is a deflection, and attempt to discredit the opposition....as I'd bet most who dislike this system would much prefer it be done away with and the game made purely subscription based. As all these system do is facilitate the freebies to play at all. Without that goal, as well as the idea of micro-transactions in general there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247

    Leveling faster does not mean P2W, biggest flaw in most of these arguments.

    Also stop mentioning DOTA2. That game was made specifically to promote sales for Steam. The entire purpose of the game is to get you to download their client, see the deals given on other games and hoping you will buy them. That game is free to promote, not free to play. Very few games in the world can survive on that marketing system.

  • dandurindandurin Member UncommonPosts: 498

    Still waiting to hear why LP cooldowns get people "26 times more labor than before" and how Archeum Chests make the game p2w.

     

    Given that:

    a) buying extra subscriptions has always gotten you WAAAYYY more LP per dollar for your alts than potions, and

    b) you could always buy archeum for cash by just buying credits for cash then using the auction house.

     

    It's almost as if there's a concerted effort to curtail interest in this game.

  • An4thorAn4thor Member Posts: 524
    Originally posted by dandurin

    Still waiting to hear why LP cooldowns get people "26 times more labor than before" and how Archeum Chests make the game p2w.

     

    Given that:

    a) buying extra subscriptions has always gotten you WAAAYYY more LP per dollar for your alts than potions, and

    b) you could always buy archeum for cash by just buying credits for cash then using the auction house.

     

    It's almost as if there's a concerted effort to curtail interest in this game.

    I'm starting to think that people are jelous that they haven't found a game they like and feel entitled to flame against upcoming games.

    At every game released it was the same, ESO, Wildstar etc.. And the more popular a game is the worse the flaming becomes. In that aspect i'm happy that AA gets so much attention, they are indirectly marketing a game that not everyone knows about.

  • DeddmeatDeddmeat Member UncommonPosts: 387


    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by Manasong  
    What if the that single player who spends the most money on the game joins the biggest guild in the game and decides to just PK everyone everytime because he has the most resources and the best gear? You think all big spenders are going to be lone-wolfs? What about during sieges? Both sides are limited on resources, if one side has a single player with two brain cells and very powerfull gear the other side is gonna have a very very small chance of winning. It doesn't really matter how much effort you put into the game, the other side can put as much effort+money and win.
    Oh you mean like every other game out there .... like buying gold or multiple accounts

    Exactly, almost every game you come across sites advertising gold, level up's, items, accounts etc etc

    Difference is XL/Trion are getting the money instead if the person goes the LP pot route. EVE you get nuts who buy accounts with top level gear, skills etc and have ZERO clue in how to use it, then get trashed by the little guy/s

    I can see the same happening in this, which seeing as the companies get the money rather than a 3rd party site (we hope) it can only help fund the game. As for those who try to dominate by buying LP's til their cards are dry, Reputation, in-game, out of game .. if they are to big a jerk then it'll follow them around.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Originally posted by Gruug
    Originally posted by kitarad

    When gamers are screaming for f2p and these games give you that they still have to make money. Most players are like hit and run drivers so asking them to spend out of the feeling that the game is deserving of some cash is naive and stupid. So they find ways to make you spend the money you should be spending supporting them. However when it includes games where I am also paying a subscription that is damn low unless it is cosmetic  or everything available in cash shop is also in game. Well you know what they say about be afraid of getting what you asked for. Here is the future of MMORPG.

     

     

    Agreed! Been saying much the same thing since f2p and cash shops started invading the gaming space. Free in this case is not free and because WE THE PLAYER/CUSTOMER are too stupid to see it, THEY get away with it. It is the primary reason I will never spend a dime in a so-called f2p game and will never spend a dime in a cash shop. And of late, I will not support a game with a sub if it also has either of those just mentioned. I think I will just let those with the fat wallet waste their money to pay my way.

     

    If TRION needed money damn they could have made the game B2P and had on site public funding for future projects... Damn simple as that!

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

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