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Derek Smart's 'New' List of Demands

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  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    Also.... Jac and Warley... Don´t want to be the first to tell you guys... but you can actually delete qoutes from a message.... I know it might feel weaird and new... but do try it out... 

    This have been a good conversation

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    tawess said:
    Also.... Jac and Warley... Don´t want to be the first to tell you guys... but you can actually delete qoutes from a message.... I know it might feel weaird and new... but do try it out... 
    ...Never =P

    Yeah, I've been told this before but I'm a slow learned. =)

    Force of habit man- Hard to change your ways but I totally understand how its annoying. I can try to be more cognizant of how I quote but it wont be long and ill forget again- Such is life....
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    edited October 2015
    Make  thread about it.

    This is about the asshole who took 100 Million from our community ... Not someone who funded a game with their own money.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    technically he did not take anything.... You gave him the money... Freely and of your own volition... Now could one argue that he should have been more upfront with how "making a game" works seeing how most of his donations came from people who had less than a clue... Sure... But then again... I used to work customer service and tech support... It is my firm belief that the average person can´t flip a lightswitch without burning stuff down... asking them to understand something as complex as a creative venture or.. well... production of any kind... Is like asking a duck to win the presidential elections.  

    This have been a good conversation

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    edited October 2015
    tawess said:
    technically he did not take anything.... You gave him the money... Freely and of your own volition... Now could one argue that he should have been more upfront with how "making a game" works seeing how most of his donations came from people who had less than a clue... Sure... But then again... I used to work customer service and tech support... It is my firm belief that the average person can´t flip a lightswitch without burning stuff down... asking them to understand something as complex as a creative venture or.. well... production of any kind... Is like asking a duck to win the presidential elections.  
    I disagree and so does the FTC.

    As ive said before, this is a very grey area- But not for long. This will set the precedence.

    If everyone "gave" them money I hope its taxed as a gift. If its a gift, why are there ships being given in exchange for money? Then the TOS, why did they make claims about refunds and accountability at all? And why did CIG change them without telling anyone?

    The "you just gave me the money" will be tested over this. 

    We can argue it to death but itll be the FEDS and attorneys and judges who decides what protection (if any) "backers" are afforded.

    A precedence has already been set. The FTC has put crowdfunding on notice. Now this will be the time they act imho, since this will set a huge example .

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/11/feds-regulate-crowdfundin_n_7565952.html

    (huff post...yeah, I know- but its the first link. Its all over the net along with massive discussions)

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    edited October 2015
    Jacxolope said:
    Make  thread about it.

    This is about the asshole who took 100 Million from our community ... Not someone who funded a game with their own money.
    Getting aggressive again? Calm down... the thread is still called "Derek Smart and his new list of demands". 

    You seem to know Mr. Roberts pretty well calling him what you called him. I know that you think of me the same but you still are polite enough to hide it.

    Mr. Roberts took no money... people freely gave it to him. And as you act like you do please not not say "our community" because you do not act as if you want to be part of that community. 

    Why do you hate so much? 

    Also... 90 not 100! No go and play with yourself... that might help you relax.

    XOXO
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    Jacxolope said:
    Make  thread about it.

    This is about the asshole who took 100 Million from our community ... Not someone who funded a game with their own money.
    Getting aggressive again? Calm down... the thread is still called "Derek Smart and his new list of demands". 

    You seem to know Mr. Roberts pretty well calling him what you called him. I know that you think of me the same but you still are polite enough to hide it.

    Mr. Roberts took no money... people freely gave it to him. And as you act like you do please not not say "our community" because you do not act as if you want to be part of that community. 

    Why do you hate so much? 

    Also... 90 not 100! No go and play with yourself... that might help you relax.

    XOXO
    If I got aggressive, it would be more wordy than that =P

    -I dont know if you're an asshole or not. Probably a backer with financial and emotional attachment. I sw this with greed monger- Right to the end.people do not want to believe they were fucked over even when its falling apart- they hold onto hope.

    -I'm not speaking about the cult community of SC, but the all encompassing community of gamers- of which I am very much apart. And im tired of predatory practices against our community.

    derek Smarts list of demands has NOTHING to do with a game derek Smart made with his own money. Focus on  the information,not the person.

    problem is, thats all you have left. The DS boogeyman nd mental gymnastics.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    And until said point... Backers are just that... Backers, making a donation... Buying in to a dream

    Any way... Now i am getting a bit fuzzy on the original scope of the game... But IIRC most of that is accessible right now... The original core that is. 

    As for breaking deadlines... Not sure that is enough to actually get them in trouble over this... If so... It would spell the end for the entire games industry... Starting with Valve, Blizzard and EA. =) 


    This have been a good conversation

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    edited October 2015
    tawess said:
    And until said point... Backers are just that... Backers, making a donation... Buying in to a dream

    Any way... Now i am getting a bit fuzzy on the original scope of the game... But IIRC most of that is accessible right now... The original core that is. 

    As for breaking deadlines... Not sure that is enough to actually get them in trouble over this... If so... It would spell the end for the entire games industry... Starting with Valve, Blizzard and EA. =) 


    I agree about "buying into a dream" and theres a big lesson coming I think- To those 'selling the dream'. To be honest, realistic,  ands responsible with the money.

    If Blizzard had a delay and the CEO bought himself a mansion on investor money- there would be hell to pay. Right now these companies using crowdfunding are acting as if its a 'gift' but playing the 'business' card where it suits them.

    Even giving a donation to a non profit has protections. Right now about the only place a business can garner funds with no oversight is crowdfunding- For that reason its attracted snake oil salesmen .IF something isnt done crowdfunding is dead anyhow. When this game flops (I dont say if) if they allow CR  to 'shrug his shoulder' and walk away without any accountability- crowdfunding will die.

    At that point everyone with some video editing skills and unity will be on there with no intention of even making an attempt- This will include me.I will 'invest' a few thousand on some hellish video propaganda and I will use the money to buy a vacation home. I swear.

    If weve decided its fine to crowdfund money and do whatever you want with it, have no oversight or accountability. I will be there after SC flops, using a front man. I will continue to do it...gain and again and again. because its ethical at that point.

    EDIT- from the start of the article...

    — Federal regulators are going after people who raise money online through crowdfunding sites like Kickstarter and GoFundMe but don't follow through on their promises.

    ---------------------------------------

    If this doesnt happen after SC flops the floodgates will open.
  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    As I said you still hide your aggression behind polite words (excluding calling CR an asshole which is aggressive). 

    And you cannot talk for the whole community... how dare anyone do that? We are all part of it and I believe that the majority wants the project to succeed and not defame based on mostly assumptions.

    But if someone (here DS) makes accusations I want to know the persons background. And so I made my research (as I did with CR). I remembered him from the Usenet wars and his overall appearance and therefor I cannot trust him. And the valid points he made are still valid but nowhere close to see SC failing. 

    I also do not believe everything that CR says but this man has much more integrity and a much better personality than DS. CR has a vision and of course due to his management skills not everything went according to plan. Nothing new in the gaming business and development. Mistakes are made but I really cannot see the sky falling due to constant content updates which, by the way, I cannot see when searching for updates of Line of Defense.

    DS uses virus tactics... something I cannot and will never approve because it shows an evil agenda.

    You repeat that DS makes his game with his own money. Does this make it any better? Does this make it better that he rips people of on Steam with his DLCs? Where is the proof that it is his money? Or is it money he did not pay the people who developed or programmed for him? Not paying your employees is stealing money. Not paying people who deserve it could have made him rich.

    When people preach something they should at least stick to what they preach. If you don't than you are a hypocrite. That is what DS is.

    But let's forget DS for a moment...

    The whole debate around Star Citizen, mismanaged or even misused funds, a game that might never see the light of day, selling concept ships and not meeting dates are mostly based on assumptions, unproven sources and hearsay. 

    Are you an angry backer who wanted a refund but didn't get one? Or why do you hate on the project and CR so much now? What happened? I could completely understand you if this is the case but is it necessary to completely switch sides? 

    Mostly, overhyped people with too high expectations turn their back from what they supported when their expectations are not met. It's an inner fear that people made an error and some people cannot admit they they made an error. 

    Confident and strong minded people stick to their plans and try to accomplish their goal where others already gave up and blame others for their mistakes.

    It's always someone else's fault... Isn't it? That's the easy way. To get back to DS... he also always blames others. He never made a mistake. 
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    edited October 2015
    I'll just address one point...

    You said...
    You repeat that DS makes his game with his own money. Does this make it any better? Does this make it better that he rips people of on Steam with his DLCs? Where is the proof that it is his money? Or is it money he did not pay the people who developed or programmed for him? Not paying your employees is stealing money. Not paying people who deserve it could have made him rich.


    -Yes. Using his own money makes it better. Selling on Steam (where ypou get a game to log into, check out and even return for your $$$) is better.

    If I use my money to do something and fail- My loss. If it was a bank loan an investor ( whom will share in my success with dividends if I do well) providing it etc... I would be still be liable. Thats the difference here. And its a big one (hope you can see)- It is a major distinction.

    Also not "hiding my aggression" behind polite words. I'll readily admit I can be a total asshole but if I was to get aggressive- It would be a fucking rant much longer than a single phrase. CR is an asshole is a statement not an 'act of aggression'.
  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    Can you prove your statement that CR is what you call him?

    Did you read the Line of Defense forums on steam and the refund debate? Please do that. He tried everything to not refund people. Luckily people reminded him of the Steam politics. So going in and preaching "that CIG do not refund everybody is so vile" when you try to not refund anyone, is hypocritical.

    Also CR has invested some of his own money on SC. The rest came falling from the sky full of hopes. Not CR's fault but it underlines that many many people share his dream and still do.

    Nice to to see that you can be an asshole. That's what the world needs... more assholes right? So you are no better than CR as he is an asshole (or better said "can be an asshole"). Assholes will more likely let the world burn than the non assholes who try to preserve it.
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    Can you prove your statement that CR is what you call him?

    Did you read the Line of Defense forums on steam and the refund debate? Please do that. He tried everything to not refund people. Luckily people reminded him of the Steam politics. So going in and preaching "that CIG do not refund everybody is so vile" when you try to not refund anyone, is hypocritical.

    Also CR has invested some of his own money on SC. The rest came falling from the sky full of hopes. Not CR's fault but it underlines that many many people share his dream and still do.

    Nice to to see that you can be an asshole. That's what the world needs... more assholes right? So you are no better than CR as he is an asshole (or better said "can be an asshole"). Assholes will more likely let the world burn than the non assholes who try to preserve it.
    Can I prove an opinion? certainly, I hold it to be my opinion .

    -Again,your argument seems to be "Well, whatever CIG did is okay because ...Derek Smart"

    That doesnt fly.

    I also never claimed to be better than anyone, did I? I am one flawed human being, bro. However, I'm an honest and mostly ethical flawed human being. I m alot things (asshole included) but I'm not a liar (not intentionally anyhow) I dont make promises I cannot keep and I have a reputation in business and personal life as someone who does what he says and deals fairly and honestly.

    The World burns when people fail to stand up and demand things.people who just shrug their shoulders...Sometimes the world needs an asshole or three.
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,536
    Surprised this even got to page 35.

    Derek Smart
    Derek Smart
    Derek Smart

    King of the Internet.



  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    I like how this was added to the bottom of the blog:

    "ps: They are doing refunds if you are persistent. Only now they are asking for a reason. You are NOT legally bound to give a reason. So don’t."

    Yes, you are not legally bound to tell them that you're doing this because Derek Smart has been spreading FUD for the last few months, thereby giving CIGs lawyers fuel to use against him ...  so don't ... lol.  That's what this statement really means.  But naturally, it's couched as being benevolent advice from Derek Smart, savior of Star Citizen victims.

    I think I just threw up in my mouth a little ....
    Holy crap! They want to know if The Escapist or Forbes articles are the reason?


    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    Heretique said:
    Surprised this even got to page 35.

    Derek Smart
    Derek Smart
    Derek Smart

    King of the Internet.



    If you summon the Dark Lord you have only yourself to blame now...

    And you're surprised this got to page 35? really? A thread with DS's name in it? Surely you jest. =P
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Brenics said:
    I found the blog well written and to the point. Citizencon should be interesting to watch Saturday. Unlike CR it was put together very professional. I know I will be attacked for that one.  =)
    Okay, I understand opinions will differ, but let's take a look at one snippit, shall we?

    "Then, in what can only be described as sheer madness, they lost their minds and made it personal. They canceled my backer account, and refunded me. Without my requesting it."

    OMG, the horror!!!  These people are CRAZY for refunding me my monies!!!!!!! ;)

    Look at the sheer audacity of his statement.  From his perspective, them refunding his money, presumably because they wanted to be rid of him, could only be described as "sheer madness".  And without him requesting it even?  Oh dear oh dear!!!

    This is why I can't take this guy seriously.  He's not entirely sane.
    LOL see and I take it a different way. Where he was getting close to what was going on. Maybe if they wouldn't have done that things would not be like they are now. By doing this it only made him start digging even more.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    Jacxolope said:
    Can you prove your statement that CR is what you call him?

    Did you read the Line of Defense forums on steam and the refund debate? Please do that. He tried everything to not refund people. Luckily people reminded him of the Steam politics. So going in and preaching "that CIG do not refund everybody is so vile" when you try to not refund anyone, is hypocritical.

    Also CR has invested some of his own money on SC. The rest came falling from the sky full of hopes. Not CR's fault but it underlines that many many people share his dream and still do.

    Nice to to see that you can be an asshole. That's what the world needs... more assholes right? So you are no better than CR as he is an asshole (or better said "can be an asshole"). Assholes will more likely let the world burn than the non assholes who try to preserve it.
    Can I prove an opinion? certainly, I hold it to be my opinion .

    -Again,your argument seems to be "Well, whatever CIG did is okay because ...Derek Smart"

    That doesnt fly.

    I also never claimed to be better than anyone, did I? I am one flawed human being, bro. However, I'm an honest and mostly ethical flawed human being. I m alot things (asshole included) but I'm not a liar (not intentionally anyhow) I dont make promises I cannot keep and I have a reputation in business and personal life as someone who does what he says and deals fairly and honestly.

    The World burns when people fail to stand up and demand things.people who just shrug their shoulders...Sometimes the world needs an asshole or three.
    Only one point I didn't like in your response: first you say that it is a statement that CR is an asshole and then you say it's an opinion. These are 2 different things.

    On the rest... thank you for your openness. And I agree that the world needs some assholes and people who stand up and demand things. There is nothing wrong with that. But when you combine being an asshole, have an evil agenda and are a hypocrite than that is something we do not need. Not talking about you ;)

    The thing is that in my opinion CR did not make any promise he has not and/or cannot keep. It just takes more time... and I can live with that as it is not my center of life. Good things take time and mistakes happen. But that is no reason to paint the devil on the wall.

    And people tend to interpret things from their own POV and are not able (due to missing empathy, which I believe is more important than being an asshole) or are not willing to empathize with others and to understand their opinion or why they do something in a certain way.

    But yes, once again, we need people who stand up and fight... but they should not follow people who have an evil agenda because then they just are tools being used to fulfil the leading persons goal. And DS is doing that. Have your worries about SC by yourself and not dictated by that person. You do not need him in any way to speak for you (not sure if I interpreted this correct but as you defend him is feels like it's this way).

    And we all made promises in our life that we were not able to keep. As you said you are a flawed human being (like every human being is). We are all full of mistakes but it is the process of learning from those flaws and mistakes that make us stronger and wiser.

    Never search for mistakes in others if you are not able to find the same mistakes in yourself and correct them.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    Brenics said:
    LOL see and I take it a different way. Where he was getting close to what was going on. Maybe if they wouldn't have done that things would not be like they are now. By doing this it only made him start digging even more.
    l think you might have something there ;)

    I suspect DS might be quite good at identifying project failures in others because he is good at getting into it himself, lol.

    Failure knows failures when they see it. Maybe it is failer's intuition :P

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    edited October 2015
    Brenics said:
    LOL see and I take it a different way. Where he was getting close to what was going on. Maybe if they wouldn't have done that things would not be like they are now. By doing this it only made him start digging even more.
    l think you might have something there ;)

    I suspect DS might be quite good at identifying project failures in others because he is good at getting into it himself, lol.

    Failure knows failures when they see it. Maybe it is failer's intuition :P

    That is indeed true but only to the point where that person is able to stand to its failures and mistakes. And DS does not admit having ever made a mistake. Therefore he is a hypocrite. Such people point at things and yell the loudest so they can distract from their own problems. 

    Never listen to yelling and screaming people. 
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,536
    Jacxolope said:
    Surely you jest. =P
    Onward to page 36.
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    I hate when any company asks me why am canceling or leaving or ask me why I want money back.....WoW does it and every time I tell them none of your business.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    Iselin said:
    I like how this was added to the bottom of the blog:

    "ps: They are doing refunds if you are persistent. Only now they are asking for a reason. You are NOT legally bound to give a reason. So don’t."

    Yes, you are not legally bound to tell them that you're doing this because Derek Smart has been spreading FUD for the last few months, thereby giving CIGs lawyers fuel to use against him ...  so don't ... lol.  That's what this statement really means.  But naturally, it's couched as being benevolent advice from Derek Smart, savior of Star Citizen victims.

    I think I just threw up in my mouth a little ....
    Holy crap! They want to know if The Escapist or Forbes articles are the reason?


    That makes it look like giving a reason is required.   they could just issuing a refund and ask them to complete an exit survey afterwards.
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,150
    Brenics said:
    I hate when any company asks me why am canceling or leaving or ask me why I want money back.....WoW does it and every time I tell them none of your business.
    I think it most cases they are just looking to improve and not lose business.  If I left a game (like SWTOR) for a reason I let them know.  i want them to fix it.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

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