When you buy a single player game there is no cash shops,that is all the money the develoepr makes,by calling itself a mmo and adding in the login screen,they now are basiclally saying "i hope we can rip off this customer for a few more bucks".
wait .. how does that work when most players don't pay for MMOs?
If you mean "rip off this WHALE for a lot more bucks" .. then it may be true. MMOs are pretty much free for most and subsidized by whales nowadays.
BTW, here is the additional benefit of playing solo ...
since you are not competing, or co-oping, with anyone, you don't have to care about p2w, and can enjoy much of the f2p MMOs for free.
Your post and generally pessimistic outlook on where we are and where we're heading reminded me of an old favorite Asimov novel from the robot series, The Naked Sun, published in 1956.
lol .. you are a Asimov fan too? His foundation series inspired me for my work.
Personally I'm an introvert who would like to see at least a few MMOs that are intended primarily for solo players, and have no content where players who would like to avoid grouping are at a big disadvantage. I like other people enough to play in the same world as them, and have conversations with them, and trade with them, but I really feel no need to fight, or worse travel, in a group. Combat is supposed to be a strategic puzzle, and I don't want other people mucking about in the middle of _my_ puzzle.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair. Basically those who are willing to put in the time and effort to organize these things and execute them will have greater accomplishments in most cases. It's fairly easy to solo. I've done it in all MMOs. Even in older games you just needed the right strategy. In a game like UO or EQ you could always buy your gear from someone else (at least until they started with the bind on pickup). Regardless I don't think there should be so much focus on gear/power as much as there is on making things feel more natural in the gaming world.
Your post and generally pessimistic outlook on where we are and where we're heading reminded me of an old favorite Asimov novel from the robot series, The Naked Sun, published in 1956.
This is a short description of the setting in the world of Solaria:
"The book focuses on the unusual traditions and culture of Solarian society: the planet has a rigidly controlled population of twenty thousand, and robots outnumber humansten thousand to one, whereas people are strictly taught from birth to despise personal contact, and live on huge estates, either alone or with their spouse only. Communication is done via holographictelepresence (called viewing, as opposed to in-person seeing)."
Although in general, I agree with what you're saying about the social experience in early MMOs and how different that was compared to present day social networks, I feel obliged to point out that you're just expressing a preference for one type of virtual experience vs. another and neither is the equal of RL social experiences. I happen to have a 17 year old daughter. Yes, she texts a lot more than either I or her 32 yr. old brother do, and keeps in touch with her friends constantly. The funny thing though is that 99% of her texts are to people she also socializes with in RL, she does not play video games like I and my son do but loves board games. She is also a voracious reader - something she shares with me, her mother and my son, but she actually prefers real analog books unlike the rest of us.
And she's not all that unique. Most of her circle of friends have similar preferences... it's like a mini-counterculture rebellion against virtual presence socializing with remote strangers we all thought was so "far out" "rad" "awesome" etc., depending on our generations' superlative du jour.
So I wouldn't go projecting too far into the future just yet about where things are headed. I think the kids who are growing up with all this tech and virtual presence around them have a much more realistic and casual attitude towards it than we did at their age. It's old hat and not terribly important to them. RL is where they spend most of their time and only use virtual presence to enhance it, not replace it.
Her generation is one hell of a lot more likely to adopt Google Glass over the Oculus Rift.
Morpheus knows where we're headed
HAHA thats one of the best mem i ve seen from long time dude! U made my day! xD
I like *being able* to do something when i'm alone. But don't *force* me doing something alone like with single player only main story quests. Scale them on the fly, make it different instances one can choose from or whatever.
It should be about having different options, not limiting it to one play style or the other.
It should read 'I like *being able* to do something when i'm alone" and get the same stuffs as people who group up to do group activities.
Personally I'm an introvert who would like to see at least a few MMOs that are intended primarily for solo players, and have no content where players who would like to avoid grouping are at a big disadvantage. I like other people enough to play in the same world as them, and have conversations with them, and trade with them, but I really feel no need to fight, or worse travel, in a group. Combat is supposed to be a strategic puzzle, and I don't want other people mucking about in the middle of _my_ puzzle.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair. Basically those who are willing to put in the time and effort to organize these things and execute them will have greater accomplishments in most cases. It's fairly easy to solo. I've done it in all MMOs. Even in older games you just needed the right strategy. In a game like UO or EQ you could always buy your gear from someone else (at least until they started with the bind on pickup). Regardless I don't think there should be so much focus on gear/power as much as there is on making things feel more natural in the gaming world.
I agree with you here- it's always quite confusing to me when people talk about soloing being harder. That assertion simply does not follow due to the limitations placed on players by stats and RNG.
ESO, for example: my Nightblade, when well-equipped, was easily tackling content made for players up to 5 levels above him. It wasn't any harder than tackling content my level; my gear simply meant I could use my combo wombo on higher level mobs. Nothing about that was "harder". At most, it simply became more important that I target healer types first. Even then, not targeting them usually only meant the fights lasted longer than they had to. What with my character build and the safety net of potions, I was never in any real danger of failing. Conversely, any higher than 5 levels, and the game started imposing large RNG accuracy penalties on my character. This had nothing to do with my skill; it didn't miss because my reticle wasn't pointed squarely at the enemy's chest. It missed because Zenimax decided that my being able to conquer anything harder needed to be artificially prevented. Such is the way with any system with RNG, gear, and combat stats (read: any MMORPG).
If we were talking strictly a Call of Duty-style FPS, or God of War (or, even better, Arkham-series) style beat 'em up, I could see someone submitting that soloing might be objectively "harder". But for MMORPGs in which stats, gear, and RNG play a large role.. No. It doesn't follow. Those numbers, not player skill, will always construct the ceiling of what you're able to accomplish by yourself.
Personally I'm an introvert who would like to see at least a few MMOs that are intended primarily for solo players, and have no content where players who would like to avoid grouping are at a big disadvantage. I like other people enough to play in the same world as them, and have conversations with them, and trade with them, but I really feel no need to fight, or worse travel, in a group. Combat is supposed to be a strategic puzzle, and I don't want other people mucking about in the middle of _my_ puzzle.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair. Basically those who are willing to put in the time and effort to organize these things and execute them will have greater accomplishments in most cases. It's fairly easy to solo. I've done it in all MMOs. Even in older games you just needed the right strategy. In a game like UO or EQ you could always buy your gear from someone else (at least until they started with the bind on pickup). Regardless I don't think there should be so much focus on gear/power as much as there is on making things feel more natural in the gaming world.
I agree with you here- it's always quite confusing to me when people talk about soloing being harder. That assertion simply does not follow due to the limitations placed on players by stats and RNG.
ESO, for example: my Nightblade, when well-equipped, was easily tackling content made for players up to 5 levels above him. It wasn't any harder than tackling content my level; my gear simply meant I could use my combo wombo on higher level mobs. Nothing about that was "harder". At most, it simply became more important that I target healer types first. Even then, not targeting them usually only meant the fights lasted longer than they had to. What with my character build and the safety net of potions, I was never in any real danger of failing. Conversely, any higher than 5 levels, and the game started imposing large RNG accuracy penalties on my character. This had nothing to do with my skill; it didn't miss because my reticle wasn't pointed squarely at the enemy's chest. It missed because Zenimax decided that my being able to conquer anything harder needed to be artificially prevented. Such is the way with any system with RNG, gear, and combat stats (read: any MMORPG).
If we were talking strictly a Call of Duty-style FPS, or God of War (or, even better, Arkham-series) style beat 'em up, I could see someone submitting that soloing might be objectively "harder". But for MMORPGs in which stats, gear, and RNG play a large role.. No. It doesn't follow. Those numbers, not player skill, will always construct the ceiling of what you're able to accomplish by yourself.
Its a computer game. Every aspect of these computer games are only as "hard" as the developer codes them to be. One can not matter-of-factly assume that solo game play in MMORPGs is any easier or harder than group game play. Each game play mechanic is only as hard as they are coded by developers. One can easily say that group game play is easy because a player is protected or otherwise being carried by the rest of the team whereas solo game play is harder because one has only themselves to fall back on when things get tough. Ever heard of the term "there is power in numbers," or "united we stand and divided we fall?" Long story short, solo game play can be made to be just as difficult as group game play and vice versa, and each game play preference can be easier or harder depending on a person's ability and skill in each game play preference. Hard/easy is subjective and highly dependent on a variety of factors. No one medium is matter-of-factly easier or harder than the other.
If we were talking strictly a Call of Duty-style FPS, or God of War (or, even better, Arkham-series) style beat 'em up, I could see someone submitting that soloing might be objectively "harder". But for MMORPGs in which stats, gear, and RNG play a large role.. No. It doesn't follow. Those numbers, not player skill, will always construct the ceiling of what you're able to accomplish by yourself.
I think it is objectively "harder" holding everything else equal. Given the same levels, same gear level, it is hard to solo the same boss, as a group of 3, again, with the same level + gear.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair.
The solution is really choice. The same random dungeon, can be played solo-ed, 2,3 or 4 player in D3. There is a similar selection in DDO.
That is the way to go. You can complain whether the calibration of xp gain is "fair" in D3 between solo & MP, but at least the option is there.
Its a computer game. Every aspect of these computer games are only as "hard" as the developer codes them to be. One can not matter-of-factly assume that solo game play in MMORPGs is any easier or harder than group game play. Each game play mechanic is only as hard as they are coded by developers. One can easily say that group game play is easy because a player is protected or otherwise being carried by the rest of the team whereas solo game play is harder because one has only themselves to fall back on when things get tough. Ever heard of the term "there is power in numbers," or "united we stand and divided we fall?" Long story short, solo game play can be made to be just as difficult as group game play and vice versa, and each game play preference can be easier or harder depending on a person's ability and skill in each game play preference. Hard/easy is subjective and highly dependent on a variety of factors. No one medium is matter-of-factly easier or harder than the other.
I can't disagree more. As I mentioned, in games where RNG isn't a factor, everything you said is absolutely spot on.
But the math of RNG, dependent upon builds and stats, disproves your assertion in the realm of MMORPGs. You could make a case that MMORPG developers are simply (and ineptly) designing games so that the ceiling is dependent upon RNG and combat stats, rather than player skill. But for solo play, across the board, those numbers hit the ceiling before player skill comes into play as the primary factor of success.
You can be the "best" PvE Warlock in the game (for all that means); however, until NPC mobs are able to field such sophisticated AI as to become truly unpredictable (Ala PvP against human players), it won't take very long for even less-than-amazing players to untangle the behavior patterns of the NPCs they face. What's more, the reality of today is that only one player need unravel that mystery naturally- he can then simply share that information freely on the internet, along with the working strategies (if there even needs to be any kind of specific strategy applied). It takes a very small amount of player skill to spot these behavior patterns (indeed, many bosses have very deliberate and specific telegraphs), and it certainly doesn't take a Counter-Strike-esque reaction time or precision to successfully react.
The only way to make such an encounter "harder" is to raise the stakes of a failed reaction and lengthen the encounter. Otherwise known as every boss fight in every MMORPG ever. Which falls directly back to the numbers game, especially when such mobs and bosses have auto-attacks that do not miss. Until MMORPGs decide to divorce themselves from these numbers (read: abandon one of the largest facets of RPG gaming) to the point at which levels and gear do not objectively make a character more powerful, those levels and gear will always form the upper limit for any individual player's ability to tackle content.
One of the boons, design-wise, that group encounters provide is a framework within which to further complicate the encounter so that it isn't such a straightforward "this boss's DPS is too high, I cannot deplete his health pool before he depletes mine." But while health pools, weapon damage, ability damage, strength/intelligence/what-have-you determine our DPS, to-hit chance, evasion chance, damage resistance, etc... They will also govern the potential of the individual player.
The best muddying of these waters comes in the form of games such as Destiny and upcoming Division- the need to accurately aim and fire skews the upper limit more in favor of player skill. However, try taking a level 5 Titan through the latest Destiny DLC missions (those at light level whatever), then come back and tell me those numbers I mentioned aren't what's keeping you from completing that content.
Your post and generally pessimistic outlook on where we are and where we're heading reminded me of an old favorite Asimov novel from the robot series, The Naked Sun, published in 1956.
This is a short description of the setting in the world of Solaria:
"The book focuses on the unusual traditions and culture of Solarian society: the planet has a rigidly controlled population of twenty thousand, and robots outnumber humansten thousand to one, whereas people are strictly taught from birth to despise personal contact, and live on huge estates, either alone or with their spouse only. Communication is done via holographictelepresence (called viewing, as opposed to in-person seeing)."
Although in general, I agree with what you're saying about the social experience in early MMOs and how different that was compared to present day social networks, I feel obliged to point out that you're just expressing a preference for one type of virtual experience vs. another and neither is the equal of RL social experiences. I happen to have a 17 year old daughter. Yes, she texts a lot more than either I or her 32 yr. old brother do, and keeps in touch with her friends constantly. The funny thing though is that 99% of her texts are to people she also socializes with in RL, she does not play video games like I and my son do but loves board games. She is also a voracious reader - something she shares with me, her mother and my son, but she actually prefers real analog books unlike the rest of us.
And she's not all that unique. Most of her circle of friends have similar preferences... it's like a mini-counterculture rebellion against virtual presence socializing with remote strangers we all thought was so "far out" "rad" "awesome" etc., depending on our generations' superlative du jour.
So I wouldn't go projecting too far into the future just yet about where things are headed. I think the kids who are growing up with all this tech and virtual presence around them have a much more realistic and casual attitude towards it than we did at their age. It's old hat and not terribly important to them. RL is where they spend most of their time and only use virtual presence to enhance it, not replace it.
Her generation is one hell of a lot more likely to adopt Google Glass over the Oculus Rift.
Morpheus knows where we're headed
See? What a pointless response.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Personally I'm an introvert who would like to see at least a few MMOs that are intended primarily for solo players, and have no content where players who would like to avoid grouping are at a big disadvantage. I like other people enough to play in the same world as them, and have conversations with them, and trade with them, but I really feel no need to fight, or worse travel, in a group. Combat is supposed to be a strategic puzzle, and I don't want other people mucking about in the middle of _my_ puzzle.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair. Basically those who are willing to put in the time and effort to organize these things and execute them will have greater accomplishments in most cases. It's fairly easy to solo. I've done it in all MMOs. Even in older games you just needed the right strategy. In a game like UO or EQ you could always buy your gear from someone else (at least until they started with the bind on pickup). Regardless I don't think there should be so much focus on gear/power as much as there is on making things feel more natural in the gaming world.
Reaction time is also present in MMOs. I feel older ones actually had more of this then newer ones. This came from have more diverse class abilities. Timing your heal, holding back on DPS not to pull aggro, CCing and pulling without drawing aggro, snare/root/interrupting at the right time, etc. It's fairly simple in concept, but a lot of people appeared to fail at these mechanics. They failed to the point where the combat has been simplified a lot in current MMOs with players just going through certain rotations in groups. A lot of this is classes being marginalized.
My point was more that you could always solo in MMOs. Gear was far less meaningful in the first few MMOs until the expansions came along. It had very little impact on weather your character would win or not. There wasn't much in the way of equipment that actually boosted stats. None the less soloing wasn't that difficult. It was a matter of finding the right classes who had the abilities that would keep mobs out of melee range.
I feel like equipment has becoming almost the sole focus of current MMOs. They are also so structured in terms of having instances raids, instanced group, and instanced solo with quests. It really kills the immersion for me.
I really like the concept of having a virtual world where you can do what you want when you log in. It doesn't even have to be combat. The hard part is making the things you can do enjoyable and not exploitable.
Don't tell me it can't be done, because I have groups that plan ahead to make less powerful characters for grouping in SWTOR and ESO... and here's the kicker, it works GREAT! We actually need each other in the solo content areas.
Just like when people ask for harsher death penalties, it's up to you, you control your game. If you want harsher death penalties, delete your character when you die, destroy one of your items, delete your gold. IT... IS... UP... TO... YOU!
These are idiotic suggestions, gimp your character and go full retard and delete it if you die. Wtf?! Then you act like that's some kind of solution? It's up to you! LOL
/facepalm
Hey, if you're too weak to stick to your convictions, that's not the game's fault. I showed you a way, and you can't do it. It's so scary to you that you have to mock it and insult it, like a monkey seeing a mirror for the first time.
Some people only see freedom as a method to allow them to restrict other people's freedoms.
Well since your so strong and brave I'm sure you delete your character when you die just like you made a gimp character with your groups in ESO. That's just brilliant and insightful apparently. So I have some simple monkey suggestions for you. You could play with your monitor off and not only delete your character when you die but also punch yourself in the genitals. Since your so brave and strong and I'm so weak and scared shouldn't be a problem at all.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
There's nothing wrong with doing solo activities. Why are people so against it? There's still plenty of group activities, and in fact, the major content requires groups (pvp, raids, dungeons).
Your post and generally pessimistic outlook on where we are and where we're heading reminded me of an old favorite Asimov novel from the robot series, The Naked Sun, published in 1956.
lol .. you are a Asimov fan too? His foundation series inspired me for my work.
Hell yeah. Detective + science fiction? What's not to like He was my favorite SF writer by far.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Your post and generally pessimistic outlook on where we are and where we're heading reminded me of an old favorite Asimov novel from the robot series, The Naked Sun, published in 1956.
lol .. you are a Asimov fan too? His foundation series inspired me for my work.
Hell yeah. Detective + science fiction? What's not to like He was my favorite SF writer by far.
Wait, there are people who aren't Asimov fans. Only author signed novel I own is from him.
Was my first introduction to Sci Fi novels, previously I had only focused on short stories.
Foundation Trilogy was the first one...set my reading pattern for life.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally I'm an introvert who would like to see at least a few MMOs that are intended primarily for solo players, and have no content where players who would like to avoid grouping are at a big disadvantage. I like other people enough to play in the same world as them, and have conversations with them, and trade with them, but I really feel no need to fight, or worse travel, in a group. Combat is supposed to be a strategic puzzle, and I don't want other people mucking about in the middle of _my_ puzzle.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair. Basically those who are willing to put in the time and effort to organize these things and execute them will have greater accomplishments in most cases. It's fairly easy to solo. I've done it in all MMOs. Even in older games you just needed the right strategy. In a game like UO or EQ you could always buy your gear from someone else (at least until they started with the bind on pickup). Regardless I don't think there should be so much focus on gear/power as much as there is on making things feel more natural in the gaming world.
I'm not entirely sure where you are getting the data or feeling that most MMOs now are made for solo players. I haven't played anywhere near "most" MMOs, so maybe I just haven't been running into the one made for solo players. But I keep running into MMOs where there is about 1/4 of the game you simply can't do solo, or can't do solo unless you are dysfunctionally over-leveled for the content. (Dysfunctional in terms of games with "trivial loot" penalties.) The three primary culprits are instanced dungeons that don't scale, activities that can only be done by a guild/properties that can only be owned/built by a guild, and drops or activities/events which can only be triggered by a sufficient number of people being at the same location/in the same fight.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Personally I'm an introvert who would like to see at least a few MMOs that are intended primarily for solo players, and have no content where players who would like to avoid grouping are at a big disadvantage. I like other people enough to play in the same world as them, and have conversations with them, and trade with them, but I really feel no need to fight, or worse travel, in a group. Combat is supposed to be a strategic puzzle, and I don't want other people mucking about in the middle of _my_ puzzle.
I'm an introvert as well, but most MMOs now are made for solo players. I don't really see how having content that a single person can't accomplish is unfair. Basically those who are willing to put in the time and effort to organize these things and execute them will have greater accomplishments in most cases. It's fairly easy to solo. I've done it in all MMOs. Even in older games you just needed the right strategy. In a game like UO or EQ you could always buy your gear from someone else (at least until they started with the bind on pickup). Regardless I don't think there should be so much focus on gear/power as much as there is on making things feel more natural in the gaming world.
I'm not entirely sure where you are getting the data or feeling that most MMOs now are made for solo players. I haven't played anywhere near "most" MMOs, so maybe I just haven't been running into the one made for solo players. But I keep running into MMOs where there is about 1/4 of the game you simply can't do solo, or can't do solo unless you are dysfunctionally over-leveled for the content. (Dysfunctional in terms of games with "trivial loot" penalties.) The three primary culprits are instanced dungeons that don't scale, activities that can only be done by a guild/properties that can only be owned/built by a guild, and drops or activities/events which can only be triggered by a sufficient number of people being at the same location/in the same fight.
It would be interesting to see some numbers on ratio from those who play instanced solo quest to other parts of the game.
The ideal game for me would be to have a non instanced world where you can do what you want, but some of the world is difficult or impossible without others help.
I suppose you could argue that is what's there, but it's more like a lot of mini games that are completely different and separated from each other.
It's hare to compare an instanced world to a game where you have a few different areas you instant teleport to for different things.
As a player who likes to solo I don't really like to do so in the environment that is provided today.
That's not to say I'm perfectly OK with the way old MMOs do it either.
I would like something with an open world, no/limited quests, but a lot of interesting different things you can do.
The ideal game for me would be to have a non instanced world where you can do what you want, but some of the world is difficult or impossible without others help.
I suppose you could argue that is what's there, but it's more like a lot of mini games that are completely different and separated from each other.
It's hare to compare an instanced world to a game where you have a few different areas you instant teleport to for different things.
As a player who likes to solo I don't really like to do so in the environment that is provided today.
That's not to say I'm perfectly OK with the way old MMOs do it either.
I would like something with an open world, no/limited quests, but a lot of interesting different things you can do.
That's quite different to what I would consider ideal. I love quests; aside from things like player-craftable housing and pet breeding, quests are the main thing I play for. My ideal world would also be one where there is nothing that is impossible to solo. Like if you took WoW, chopped off the raids and PvP, developed the npc factions more (taking some inspiration from Skyrim), made all the dungeons scalable down to one person, and hybridized it with the housing and tech tree portion of a sandbox like A Tale in the Desert, heavy on the minigame-style crafting.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
When you buy a single player game there is no cash shops,that is all the money the develoepr makes,by calling itself a mmo and adding in the login screen,they now are basiclally saying "i hope we can rip off this customer for a few more bucks".
o.O
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The ideal game for me would be to have a non instanced world where you can do what you want, but some of the world is difficult or impossible without others help.
I suppose you could argue that is what's there, but it's more like a lot of mini games that are completely different and separated from each other.
It's hare to compare an instanced world to a game where you have a few different areas you instant teleport to for different things.
As a player who likes to solo I don't really like to do so in the environment that is provided today.
That's not to say I'm perfectly OK with the way old MMOs do it either.
I would like something with an open world, no/limited quests, but a lot of interesting different things you can do.
That's quite different to what I would consider ideal. I love quests; aside from things like player-craftable housing and pet breeding, quests are the main thing I play for. My ideal world would also be one where there is nothing that is impossible to solo. Like if you took WoW, chopped off the raids and PvP, developed the npc factions more (taking some inspiration from Skyrim), made all the dungeons scalable down to one person, and hybridized it with the housing and tech tree portion of a sandbox like A Tale in the Desert, heavy on the minigame-style crafting.
I don't see the point in making such games unless they are single player. It seems like people can't accept a game that does not allow for a complete, instanced, single player experience. Variety is the spice of life. MMOs are best as virtual worlds IMO. Single player games are best as single player games. I enjoy both, but I don't see the point of having everything scale so that a MMO becomes a single player game for those who don't want to play an MMO to begin with.
The problem is people focus on solo combat. In fact EQ was one of the few MMORPG back in the day that heavily pushed group combat.
Lack of interdependency, conveniences that bypass other players, over use of instances, power gaps that isolate are bigger factors. Then exclusive purpose of MMORPG being combat and questhubs which are solo centered set the tone.
When you buy a single player game there is no cash shops,that is all the money the develoepr makes,by calling itself a mmo and adding in the login screen,they now are basiclally saying "i hope we can rip off this customer for a few more bucks".
Greed is good lol . That's why true multiplayer game , MOBA win over MMORPG . Cause they are real multiplayer and aren't singleplayer in disguise .
Your post and generally pessimistic outlook on where we are and where we're heading reminded me of an old favorite Asimov novel from the robot series, The Naked Sun, published in 1956.
lol .. you are a Asimov fan too? His foundation series inspired me for my work.
Hell yeah. Detective + science fiction? What's not to like He was my favorite SF writer by far.
Wait, there are people who aren't Asimov fans. Only author signed novel I own is from him.
Was my first introduction to Sci Fi novels, previously I had only focused on short stories.
Foundation Trilogy was the first one...set my reading pattern for life.
lol .. there is something that both me & Kyleran like. The world is full of surprises. I still remember .. i picked up Foundation and Empire FIRST .. without knowing there is a previous novel. Biggest mistake of my life. Still love the series.
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This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
If you mean "rip off this WHALE for a lot more bucks" .. then it may be true. MMOs are pretty much free for most and subsidized by whales nowadays.
BTW, here is the additional benefit of playing solo ...
since you are not competing, or co-oping, with anyone, you don't have to care about p2w, and can enjoy much of the f2p MMOs for free.
lol .. you are a Asimov fan too? His foundation series inspired me for my work.
U made my day! xD
ESO, for example: my Nightblade, when well-equipped, was easily tackling content made for players up to 5 levels above him. It wasn't any harder than tackling content my level; my gear simply meant I could use my combo wombo on higher level mobs. Nothing about that was "harder". At most, it simply became more important that I target healer types first. Even then, not targeting them usually only meant the fights lasted longer than they had to. What with my character build and the safety net of potions, I was never in any real danger of failing. Conversely, any higher than 5 levels, and the game started imposing large RNG accuracy penalties on my character. This had nothing to do with my skill; it didn't miss because my reticle wasn't pointed squarely at the enemy's chest. It missed because Zenimax decided that my being able to conquer anything harder needed to be artificially prevented. Such is the way with any system with RNG, gear, and combat stats (read: any MMORPG).
If we were talking strictly a Call of Duty-style FPS, or God of War (or, even better, Arkham-series) style beat 'em up, I could see someone submitting that soloing might be objectively "harder". But for MMORPGs in which stats, gear, and RNG play a large role.. No. It doesn't follow. Those numbers, not player skill, will always construct the ceiling of what you're able to accomplish by yourself.
Its a computer game. Every aspect of these computer games are only as "hard" as the developer codes them to be. One can not matter-of-factly assume that solo game play in MMORPGs is any easier or harder than group game play. Each game play mechanic is only as hard as they are coded by developers. One can easily say that group game play is easy because a player is protected or otherwise being carried by the rest of the team whereas solo game play is harder because one has only themselves to fall back on when things get tough. Ever heard of the term "there is power in numbers," or "united we stand and divided we fall?" Long story short, solo game play can be made to be just as difficult as group game play and vice versa, and each game play preference can be easier or harder depending on a person's ability and skill in each game play preference. Hard/easy is subjective and highly dependent on a variety of factors. No one medium is matter-of-factly easier or harder than the other.
That is pretty obvious.
The solution is really choice. The same random dungeon, can be played solo-ed, 2,3 or 4 player in D3. There is a similar selection in DDO.
That is the way to go. You can complain whether the calibration of xp gain is "fair" in D3 between solo & MP, but at least the option is there.
But the math of RNG, dependent upon builds and stats, disproves your assertion in the realm of MMORPGs. You could make a case that MMORPG developers are simply (and ineptly) designing games so that the ceiling is dependent upon RNG and combat stats, rather than player skill. But for solo play, across the board, those numbers hit the ceiling before player skill comes into play as the primary factor of success.
You can be the "best" PvE Warlock in the game (for all that means); however, until NPC mobs are able to field such sophisticated AI as to become truly unpredictable (Ala PvP against human players), it won't take very long for even less-than-amazing players to untangle the behavior patterns of the NPCs they face. What's more, the reality of today is that only one player need unravel that mystery naturally- he can then simply share that information freely on the internet, along with the working strategies (if there even needs to be any kind of specific strategy applied). It takes a very small amount of player skill to spot these behavior patterns (indeed, many bosses have very deliberate and specific telegraphs), and it certainly doesn't take a Counter-Strike-esque reaction time or precision to successfully react.
The only way to make such an encounter "harder" is to raise the stakes of a failed reaction and lengthen the encounter. Otherwise known as every boss fight in every MMORPG ever. Which falls directly back to the numbers game, especially when such mobs and bosses have auto-attacks that do not miss. Until MMORPGs decide to divorce themselves from these numbers (read: abandon one of the largest facets of RPG gaming) to the point at which levels and gear do not objectively make a character more powerful, those levels and gear will always form the upper limit for any individual player's ability to tackle content.
One of the boons, design-wise, that group encounters provide is a framework within which to further complicate the encounter so that it isn't such a straightforward "this boss's DPS is too high, I cannot deplete his health pool before he depletes mine." But while health pools, weapon damage, ability damage, strength/intelligence/what-have-you determine our DPS, to-hit chance, evasion chance, damage resistance, etc... They will also govern the potential of the individual player.
The best muddying of these waters comes in the form of games such as Destiny and upcoming Division- the need to accurately aim and fire skews the upper limit more in favor of player skill. However, try taking a level 5 Titan through the latest Destiny DLC missions (those at light level whatever), then come back and tell me those numbers I mentioned aren't what's keeping you from completing that content.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
My point was more that you could always solo in MMOs. Gear was far less meaningful in the first few MMOs until the expansions came along. It had very little impact on weather your character would win or not. There wasn't much in the way of equipment that actually boosted stats. None the less soloing wasn't that difficult. It was a matter of finding the right classes who had the abilities that would keep mobs out of melee range.
I feel like equipment has becoming almost the sole focus of current MMOs. They are also so structured in terms of having instances raids, instanced group, and instanced solo with quests. It really kills the immersion for me.
I really like the concept of having a virtual world where you can do what you want when you log in. It doesn't even have to be combat. The hard part is making the things you can do enjoyable and not exploitable.
Well since your so strong and brave I'm sure you delete your character when you die just like you made a gimp character with your groups in ESO. That's just brilliant and insightful apparently. So I have some simple monkey suggestions for you. You could play with your monitor off and not only delete your character when you die but also punch yourself in the genitals. Since your so brave and strong and I'm so weak and scared shouldn't be a problem at all.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
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Was my first introduction to Sci Fi novels, previously I had only focused on short stories.
Foundation Trilogy was the first one...set my reading pattern for life.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The ideal game for me would be to have a non instanced world where you can do what you want, but some of the world is difficult or impossible without others help.
I suppose you could argue that is what's there, but it's more like a lot of mini games that are completely different and separated from each other.
It's hare to compare an instanced world to a game where you have a few different areas you instant teleport to for different things.
As a player who likes to solo I don't really like to do so in the environment that is provided today.
That's not to say I'm perfectly OK with the way old MMOs do it either.
I would like something with an open world, no/limited quests, but a lot of interesting different things you can do.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Lack of interdependency, conveniences that bypass other players, over use of instances, power gaps that isolate are bigger factors. Then exclusive purpose of MMORPG being combat and questhubs which are solo centered set the tone.
That's why true multiplayer game , MOBA win over MMORPG . Cause they are real multiplayer and aren't singleplayer in disguise .