Umm no, if anything I would say the state of MMOs (and gaming in general) is slowly getting better. The rush of WoW clones seems to be over (or has at least abated), a certain group of people seem to really like BDO, established 'classical' MMOs including ESO and FFXIV (and probably others) have had patches / content updates that have been well received, WoW is in a bit of a rut (die damn you ), and there seems plenty to look forward to with CU, Pantheon, CoE, and Crowfall all showing quite a bit of promise...
Honestly if you can't find an MMO that you like there are plenty of good single player RPGs, MOBAs (if PvP is your thing), and other games to hold you over for a while; other than that maybe you should take up another hobby.
Nah I disagree. BnS is good if you don't mind themepark/like balanced instanced pvp. BDO is good if you like to craft and fish. Division is kind of an MMO shooter, sort of...
What did we get in 2015? I spent the whole year playing Hearthstone/SMITE because there literally wasn't a single MMO that I hadn't played through or could stand.
Umm no, if anything I would say the state of MMOs (and gaming in general) is slowly getting better. The rush of WoW clones seems to be over (or has at least abated), a certain group of people seem to really like BDO, established 'classical' MMOs including ESO and FFXIV (and probably others) have had patches / content updates that have been well received, WoW is in a bit of a rut (die damn you ), and there seems plenty to look forward to with CU, Pantheon, CoE, and Crowfall all showing quite a bit of promise...
Honestly if you can't find an MMO that you like there are plenty of good single player RPGs, MOBAs (if PvP is your thing), and other games to hold you over for a while; other than that maybe you should take up another hobby.
I will admit I forgot about ff but the combat isnt for everyone and I didnt like it nor the theme, I prefer western fantasy usually, but if you read my post I said I didnt try eso yet but from reviews and videos its clear its like allot like other mmorpgs but with better exploration and leveling options while it has some good points its still missing things that make an mmorpg whole, as far as the others I wasnt talking about games in development they are promises not proof.
I play single player rpgs all the time but thanks for the recommendations anywys.
I don't see how it'll ever get better. Especially the pay to win thing. There are a few indie ones coming out with subscription. But cash shop is probably where we are heading.
And i already knew everything about the others and looked at them again and yep still in horrible states. So objectively this seems to be the case, and people need to learn to agree on this.
I think you need to learn the meaning of "objective". Opinions are not objective.
It isnt an opinion, just because one views money making scams as something they do not mind does not mean it isnt objectively bad.
In that case, I think you need to learn the meaning of "opinion". And also of "scam".
We need to learn that just because things aren't going the way we want doesn't make it wrong. The market is what the market is. We have to adapt or move on.
That attitude is part of the problem, the market can be called out, people can change it.
How to make the market better:
1) Make your own game. 2) Spend money on games you like and not on games you don't.
How not to make the market better:
1) Make wild, ranting forum threads. 2) Insist that even if you "loved" a game, that's not good enough because someone out there found something to criticize about it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
And i already knew everything about the others and looked at them again and yep still in horrible states. So objectively this seems to be the case, and people need to learn to agree on this.
I think you need to learn the meaning of "objective". Opinions are not objective.
It isnt an opinion, just because one views money making scams as something they do not mind does not mean it isnt objectively bad.
In that case, I think you need to learn the meaning of "opinion". And also of "scam".
We need to learn that just because things aren't going the way we want doesn't make it wrong. The market is what the market is. We have to adapt or move on.
That attitude is part of the problem, the market can be called out, people can change it.
Called out. You kids are funny. Just because you want something doesn't make it right.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I actually fairly enjoy Black Desert Online and also enjoyed Darkfall (the first one) before 2016. So really can't agree. 2016 is pretty chill my friend.
And i already knew everything about the others and looked at them again and yep still in horrible states. So objectively this seems to be the case, and people need to learn to agree on this.
I think you need to learn the meaning of "objective". Opinions are not objective.
It isnt an opinion, just because one views money making scams as something they do not mind does not mean it isnt objectively bad.
In that case, I think you need to learn the meaning of "opinion". And also of "scam".
We need to learn that just because things aren't going the way we want doesn't make it wrong. The market is what the market is. We have to adapt or move on.
That attitude is part of the problem, the market can be called out, people can change it.
Called out. You kids are funny. Just because you want something doesn't make it right.
Just because you think its about us wanting something doesnt mean its that simple, just because you think its ok for companies to continue getting away with making crappy mmorpgs with horrid p2w stuff doesnt make it right, Im fine paying a monthly fee or buy to play by the way.
There's great MMORPGs out there. Like FF14,Tera,Aion,BnS,GW2 aaand ofcourse WoW. Its just you people being whiny and picky. All of the mmorpgs i mentioned offer good content that i can bet my arse will engage you for couple of month if not more, but ya all hear 1 bad thing about each of them and go hurr durr gonna wait for new game hurr durr then new game comes out and someone says something about it bad and you make thread how mmorpgs suck these days.
BDO is great. It's the most fun I've had in years playing a MMO.
OP you could give FF14 a go if you are after group content. The game starts slow and you will be soloing to begin with, but once you hit the mid to upper teens the group content/dungeons open up. It's a P2P game but I think there is a free trial for it.
And i already knew everything about the others and looked at them again and yep still in horrible states. So objectively this seems to be the case, and people need to learn to agree on this.
I think you need to learn the meaning of "objective". Opinions are not objective.
It isnt an opinion, just because one views money making scams as something they do not mind does not mean it isnt objectively bad.
In that case, I think you need to learn the meaning of "opinion". And also of "scam".
We need to learn that just because things aren't going the way we want doesn't make it wrong. The market is what the market is. We have to adapt or move on.
That attitude is part of the problem, the market can be called out, people can change it.
Called out. You kids are funny. Just because you want something doesn't make it right.
Just because you think its about us wanting something doesnt mean its that simple, just because you think its ok for companies to continue getting away with making crappy mmorpgs with horrid p2w stuff doesnt make it right, Im fine paying a monthly fee or buy to play by the way.
You've started a thread with your own opinion: the MMO genre is worse in 2016 than it was in previous years.
You've tried to convince us that your opinion is a fact, without giving any evidence (one linked video to someone elses opinion is not fact).
You've then asked us all to agree with your opinion, but you haven't really said why we should. What will we accomplish if we all agree with you?
There really are very few facts that we have access to when trying to assess the health of the MMO genre, but what we do have access to disagrees with you:
1) Income - MMOs are making more money now than they ever had before. 2) Number of games - There are more MMOs now that at any time in history.
Now, addressing your subjective opinion on the MMO genre, I'm inclined to agree. Its not that the quality of new games has gone down, quite the opposite, I feel the quality (i.e. actual implementation, graphics, bugs etc) has gone massively up. It is the design direction (solofication, dumbing down, instancing etc) and the monetisation models that have resulted in new games that I, personally, do not enjoy. So, I voted with my wallet and haven't spent money on new MMOs for nearly 4 years, but clearly I'm in the minority given that the MMO market is making more money than ever.
I also don't think we've got too long to wait until the market changes. The way I see it:
Late 90s - 2005 - The era of experimentation
2005 - 2013 - The golden age of themeparks, to the exclusion of all other styles
2010 - 2014 - The slump
2014 - present - The next era of experimentation
The last few years have finally seen developers start to experiment more with the MMO genre. SW:TOR tried to focus on storytelling and voice acting. Others went down the action combat route. Console devs have started experimenting on the fringe of the MMO realm with games like Destiny and The Division. We're starting to see a resurgence of sandbox MMOs. Some MMOs have removed classes, some MMOs have tried removing roles. We've got some old school isometric MMOs, Indie devs trying to recapture the previous era of experimentation......
All in all, I'd say we're on the cusp of something great. The industry knows how to make a great themepark game, we've got the formula sorted and there are plenty of great themeparks for those that want them. We're just waiting for the latest round of experiments to find a winning formula for other styles of MMO.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
cameltosis said: We're just waiting for the latest round of experiments to find a winning formula for other styles of MMO.
Which is great and all, except in the many cases where the wait has already exceeded ten years.
"It's OK, Cubs fans, we'll get 'em next year."
Yeh, very true, but between 2005 and 2014 there hasn't really been much experimentation, so chances of finding a winning formula have been extremely slim.
Also, there is always the risk that the next winning formula might not be for a style of MMO we like. For example, I'm hoping that the next winning formula will be for accessible sandbox MMOs with quality world pvp (here's looking at you CU) but I rather think we're more likely to see a winning formula on the FPS side of things, building on the successes of Destiny and TD.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
And i already knew everything about the others and looked at them again and yep still in horrible states. So objectively this seems to be the case, and people need to learn to agree on this.
I think you need to learn the meaning of "objective". Opinions are not objective.
It isnt an opinion, just because one views money making scams as something they do not mind does not mean it isnt objectively bad.
In that case, I think you need to learn the meaning of "opinion". And also of "scam".
We need to learn that just because things aren't going the way we want doesn't make it wrong. The market is what the market is. We have to adapt or move on.
That attitude is part of the problem, the market can be called out, people can change it.
Called out. You kids are funny. Just because you want something doesn't make it right.
Just because you think its about us wanting something doesnt mean its that simple, just because you think its ok for companies to continue getting away with making crappy mmorpgs with horrid p2w stuff doesnt make it right, Im fine paying a monthly fee or buy to play by the way.
You've started a thread with your own opinion: the MMO genre is worse in 2016 than it was in previous years.
You've tried to convince us that your opinion is a fact, without giving any evidence (one linked video to someone elses opinion is not fact).
You've then asked us all to agree with your opinion, but you haven't really said why we should. What will we accomplish if we all agree with you?
There really are very few facts that we have access to when trying to assess the health of the MMO genre, but what we do have access to disagrees with you:
1) Income - MMOs are making more money now than they ever had before. 2) Number of games - There are more MMOs now that at any time in history.
Now, addressing your subjective opinion on the MMO genre, I'm inclined to agree. Its not that the quality of new games has gone down, quite the opposite, I feel the quality (i.e. actual implementation, graphics, bugs etc) has gone massively up. It is the design direction (solofication, dumbing down, instancing etc) and the monetisation models that have resulted in new games that I, personally, do not enjoy. So, I voted with my wallet and haven't spent money on new MMOs for nearly 4 years, but clearly I'm in the minority given that the MMO market is making more money than ever.
I also don't think we've got too long to wait until the market changes. The way I see it:
Late 90s - 2005 - The era of experimentation
2005 - 2013 - The golden age of themeparks, to the exclusion of all other styles
2010 - 2014 - The slump
2014 - present - The next era of experimentation
The last few years have finally seen developers start to experiment more with the MMO genre. SW:TOR tried to focus on storytelling and voice acting. Others went down the action combat route. Console devs have started experimenting on the fringe of the MMO realm with games like Destiny and The Division. We're starting to see a resurgence of sandbox MMOs. Some MMOs have removed classes, some MMOs have tried removing roles. We've got some old school isometric MMOs, Indie devs trying to recapture the previous era of experimentation......
All in all, I'd say we're on the cusp of something great. The industry knows how to make a great themepark game, we've got the formula sorted and there are plenty of great themeparks for those that want them. We're just waiting for the latest round of experiments to find a winning formula for other styles of MMO.
Actually I did in some of my later posts, it was my mistake but I figured people would know by now to recongnize the state of them from all the posts ive been reading I guess the aware community was not around today, and I can see why you think this about the current state of mmorpgs and while its an optimistic way of looking at it, we are talking about now, we are not talking about them learning from mistakes and making decent mmorpgs 5 years from now.
And the problem with the experienments is that it does to much of one thing like your example of swtor which is essenitally a single player mmorpg with stripped rpg elements like leveling choices. And while there are some themeparks they arent that great, or have other serious flaws like bad voice acting or a really bad item shop. The only true good theme park we ever had was wow and I didnt even care for that mmorpg that much. Unless im forgetting one.
I did forget lotro which is to be really good but we all know how greedy they got with that game.
I must not be a part of the "aware community" or a smart person, because I'm having a great time in Vendetta Online. Cross-platform-ness is excellent. I just mined some Carbonic and VanAzek ore for my production line last night from my smartphone while couch surfing. Relatives in town.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Since the OP talked about GW2. You have to be quite amazed how much money GW2 is able to make of the cash shop. I'm not sure how long it'll last though, but after 3 years they are still racking in cash from the financial reports.
It's really hard to know how game companies are doing, since most of them don't release population or financial data.
I must not be a part of the "aware community" or a smart person, because I'm having a great time in Vendetta Online. Cross-platform-ness is excellent. I just mined some Carbonic and VanAzek ore for my production line last night from my smartphone while couch surfing. Relatives in town.
Really? My apologies then because I heard that game was not very popular.
I must not be a part of the "aware community" or a smart person, because I'm having a great time in Vendetta Online. Cross-platform-ness is excellent. I just mined some Carbonic and VanAzek ore for my production line last night from my smartphone while couch surfing. Relatives in town.
Really? My apologies then because I heard that game was not very popular.
Top voted game on this website for years. Recently displaced by BDO.
Idk what you mean by the game being limiting in your OP. You can literally play everything you want for generic pve content. You don't need to be meta to kill pve <o>
So after a long break I tried to look back into mmorpgs again, owning guild wars 2 I decided to look into it and yep same problems as before, many things are still not even being looked into and the same knee jerk force into playstyles people dont want to play.
I finally gave into neverwinter and gave it a try and loved it but people still complain about p2w at endgame and pvp and its really to bad because I really liked the combat and customization, not to mention its fantasy which I enjoy allot.
I tried blade and soul and it was a cool game but I couldnt get past that story and voice acting.
Ive looked into others but really they are buy to play and im not going to spend my money without a free trial im talking about black desert and eso right now.
I wouldnt mind giving wow another go if I could get into the combat but I cannot, if that was the case id just go back to eq1, hek I would of went back long ago, I couldnt even get back into eq2, single player rpgs have ruined mmorpgs for me lol.
And i already knew everything about the others and looked at them again and yep still in horrible states. So objectively this seems to be the case, and people need to learn to agree on this.
I agree totally. Also, using the most popular MMORPG of all time to back up your point and mine....there is a large chunk of WoW fans who want nothing to do with anything past WoW Vanilla. Of which I am one as well. The reason? All the added crap that tried to appease every single combination of player wants, which broke the lore, and also how it became "World of Que's", i.e. a waiting que for Arena's, a waiting que for Dungeons and Raids, and Battlegrounds. Whenever I start a new character, for example a human near Stormwind...it is like a breath of fresh air. No pun intended.
I must not be a part of the "aware community" or a smart person, because I'm having a great time in Vendetta Online. Cross-platform-ness is excellent. I just mined some Carbonic and VanAzek ore for my production line last night from my smartphone while couch surfing. Relatives in town.
Really? My apologies then because I heard that game was not very popular.
Who told you that? It's doing just fine, from what I can tell :-) No apology necessary.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
The MMORPG scene is kinda like a waiting-game. Wait X years for these X game and get disappointed by it and the cycle continues... Once in a while I came here looking for something to play but just "meh, more waiting".
Randomly saw ARPG on the thread I guess I can just recommend you - Path of Exile. The online ARPG scene seems to emerge well in the pass few years, with many titles still on the works. This part at least looks a lot more promising than the MMORPG part. MMORPG to me is like something that gotten to a point where innovation is thrown into the drain and all it does is recycle ideas that guaranteed to work to generate the most income possible. I just don't want to grind yet another dungeon, the idea of static-dungeon need to be thrown into the dead sea and came out with new method for progression and end game. MMO at least should borrow some idea from the ARPG genre - such as randomized contents, to keep every minute of game play interesting. Static dungeon is f**king boring to play over and over and over again.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Honestly if you can't find an MMO that you like there are plenty of good single player RPGs, MOBAs (if PvP is your thing), and other games to hold you over for a while; other than that maybe you should take up another hobby.
What did we get in 2015? I spent the whole year playing Hearthstone/SMITE because there literally wasn't a single MMO that I hadn't played through or could stand.
I play single player rpgs all the time but thanks for the recommendations anywys.
This is the answer!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Called out. You kids are funny. Just because you want something doesn't make it right.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Its just you people being whiny and picky. All of the mmorpgs i mentioned offer good content that i can bet my arse will engage you for couple of month if not more, but ya all hear 1 bad thing about each of them and go hurr durr gonna wait for new game hurr durr then new game comes out and someone says something about it bad and you make thread how mmorpgs suck these days.
OP you could give FF14 a go if you are after group content. The game starts slow and you will be soloing to begin with, but once you hit the mid to upper teens the group content/dungeons open up. It's a P2P game but I think there is a free trial for it.
You've tried to convince us that your opinion is a fact, without giving any evidence (one linked video to someone elses opinion is not fact).
You've then asked us all to agree with your opinion, but you haven't really said why we should. What will we accomplish if we all agree with you?
There really are very few facts that we have access to when trying to assess the health of the MMO genre, but what we do have access to disagrees with you:
1) Income - MMOs are making more money now than they ever had before.
2) Number of games - There are more MMOs now that at any time in history.
Now, addressing your subjective opinion on the MMO genre, I'm inclined to agree. Its not that the quality of new games has gone down, quite the opposite, I feel the quality (i.e. actual implementation, graphics, bugs etc) has gone massively up. It is the design direction (solofication, dumbing down, instancing etc) and the monetisation models that have resulted in new games that I, personally, do not enjoy. So, I voted with my wallet and haven't spent money on new MMOs for nearly 4 years, but clearly I'm in the minority given that the MMO market is making more money than ever.
I also don't think we've got too long to wait until the market changes. The way I see it:
- Late 90s - 2005 - The era of experimentation
- 2005 - 2013 - The golden age of themeparks, to the exclusion of all other styles
- 2010 - 2014 - The slump
- 2014 - present - The next era of experimentation
The last few years have finally seen developers start to experiment more with the MMO genre. SW:TOR tried to focus on storytelling and voice acting. Others went down the action combat route. Console devs have started experimenting on the fringe of the MMO realm with games like Destiny and The Division. We're starting to see a resurgence of sandbox MMOs. Some MMOs have removed classes, some MMOs have tried removing roles. We've got some old school isometric MMOs, Indie devs trying to recapture the previous era of experimentation......All in all, I'd say we're on the cusp of something great. The industry knows how to make a great themepark game, we've got the formula sorted and there are plenty of great themeparks for those that want them. We're just waiting for the latest round of experiments to find a winning formula for other styles of MMO.
"It's OK, Cubs fans, we'll get 'em next year."
Also, there is always the risk that the next winning formula might not be for a style of MMO we like. For example, I'm hoping that the next winning formula will be for accessible sandbox MMOs with quality world pvp (here's looking at you CU) but I rather think we're more likely to see a winning formula on the FPS side of things, building on the successes of Destiny and TD.
And the problem with the experienments is that it does to much of one thing like your example of swtor which is essenitally a single player mmorpg with stripped rpg elements like leveling choices. And while there are some themeparks they arent that great, or have other serious flaws like bad voice acting or a really bad item shop. The only true good theme park we ever had was wow and I didnt even care for that mmorpg that much. Unless im forgetting one.
I did forget lotro which is to be really good but we all know how greedy they got with that game.
Swtor started out as a good themepark atleast.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
It's really hard to know how game companies are doing, since most of them don't release population or financial data.
Idk what you mean by the game being limiting in your OP. You can literally play everything you want for generic pve content. You don't need to be meta to kill pve <o>
Also, using the most popular MMORPG of all time to back up your point and mine....there is a large chunk of WoW fans who want nothing to do with anything past WoW Vanilla.
Of which I am one as well.
The reason?
All the added crap that tried to appease every single combination of player wants, which broke the lore, and also how it became "World of Que's", i.e. a waiting que for Arena's, a waiting que for Dungeons and Raids, and Battlegrounds.
Whenever I start a new character, for example a human near Stormwind...it is like a breath of fresh air.
No pun intended.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
Randomly saw ARPG on the thread I guess I can just recommend you - Path of Exile.
The online ARPG scene seems to emerge well in the pass few years, with many titles still on the works. This part at least looks a lot more promising than the MMORPG part. MMORPG to me is like something that gotten to a point where innovation is thrown into the drain and all it does is recycle ideas that guaranteed to work to generate the most income possible. I just don't want to grind yet another dungeon, the idea of static-dungeon need to be thrown into the dead sea and came out with new method for progression and end game. MMO at least should borrow some idea from the ARPG genre - such as randomized contents, to keep every minute of game play interesting. Static dungeon is f**king boring to play over and over and over again.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon