Nope, we can't agree on that. I couldn't care less about some outdated mechanics falling by the wayside, and I'm certainly not going to condemn the whole genre based on it.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Actually I did in some of my later posts, it was my mistake but I figured people would know by now to recongnize the state of them from all the posts ive been reading I guess the aware community was not around today, and I can see why you think this about the current state of mmorpgs and while its an optimistic way of looking at it, we are talking about now, we are not talking about them learning from mistakes and making decent mmorpgs 5 years from now.
And the problem with the experienments is that it does to much of one thing like your example of swtor which is essenitally a single player mmorpg with stripped rpg elements like leveling choices. And while there are some themeparks they arent that great, or have other serious flaws like bad voice acting or a really bad item shop. The only true good theme park we ever had was wow and I didnt even care for that mmorpg that much. Unless im forgetting one.
I did forget lotro which is to be really good but we all know how greedy they got with that game.
Swtor started out as a good themepark atleast.
Again, you are mistaking facts (objectivity) with opinion.
Your opinion (mmo genre is bad now) is indeed shared by a lot of people who post on these forums, myself included. But, just because your opinion is shared, doesn't make it a fact. The facts are that the genre is expanding and its revenue is increasing, both of which indicate the genre is in a good place.
You also have to look at the demographics. Various games have published (in the past) their demographics on raiders, pvpers, casuals etc. In a typical MMO, roughly 5% of the population raid on a regular basis and roughly 8-10% pvp on a regular basis, and there is crossover between the two.
Conversely, out of the forum posters, a significantly higher proportion participate in raids and pvp (I've seen figures between 25% and 70%).
So, we know, for a fact, that the opinions expressed on forums are not representative of the majority, and we know that the majority of players are casuals - they like easy games, they like solo games, they like short play-sessions.
Are you surprised that the market has changed over the last decade to match the majority of its audience? I'd call that good business sense! Developers are creating products that appeal to the largest market share. It just so happens that you and I aren't part of that large group, we are instead a small minority who want harder, longer, more group-orientated games.
As for experimenting, why are you complaining about new games experimenting? Its like you think you have the winning formula in your head for the perfect MMO and you consider all developers idiots if they don't match your formula. I, like most people, having an idea for MY perfect MMO, but I don't delude myself into thinking that my perfect MMO is the perfect MMO for everyone.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I can relate to your frustration, but maybe you should try some of the buy to play games before you have a total meltdown.
I always find it humurous when people think if you have to pay for something that it must be good.....The reason why BDO and ESO are b2p is that they are still fairly new and ESO has a huge following from the single player games in the series.....I agree with the OP I want a free trial of some sort before I spend money in this genre.
Actually I did in some of my later posts, it was my mistake but I figured people would know by now to recongnize the state of them from all the posts ive been reading I guess the aware community was not around today, and I can see why you think this about the current state of mmorpgs and while its an optimistic way of looking at it, we are talking about now, we are not talking about them learning from mistakes and making decent mmorpgs 5 years from now.
And the problem with the experienments is that it does to much of one thing like your example of swtor which is essenitally a single player mmorpg with stripped rpg elements like leveling choices. And while there are some themeparks they arent that great, or have other serious flaws like bad voice acting or a really bad item shop. The only true good theme park we ever had was wow and I didnt even care for that mmorpg that much. Unless im forgetting one.
I did forget lotro which is to be really good but we all know how greedy they got with that game.
Swtor started out as a good themepark atleast.
Again, you are mistaking facts (objectivity) with opinion.
Your opinion (mmo genre is bad now) is indeed shared by a lot of people who post on these forums, myself included. But, just because your opinion is shared, doesn't make it a fact. The facts are that the genre is expanding and its revenue is increasing, both of which indicate the genre is in a good place.
You also have to look at the demographics. Various games have published (in the past) their demographics on raiders, pvpers, casuals etc. In a typical MMO, roughly 5% of the population raid on a regular basis and roughly 8-10% pvp on a regular basis, and there is crossover between the two.
Conversely, out of the forum posters, a significantly higher proportion participate in raids and pvp (I've seen figures between 25% and 70%).
So, we know, for a fact, that the opinions expressed on forums are not representative of the majority, and we know that the majority of players are casuals - they like easy games, they like solo games, they like short play-sessions.
Are you surprised that the market has changed over the last decade to match the majority of its audience? I'd call that good business sense! Developers are creating products that appeal to the largest market share. It just so happens that you and I aren't part of that large group, we are instead a small minority who want harder, longer, more group-orientated games.
As for experimenting, why are you complaining about new games experimenting? Its like you think you have the winning formula in your head for the perfect MMO and you consider all developers idiots if they don't match your formula. I, like most people, having an idea for MY perfect MMO, but I don't delude myself into thinking that my perfect MMO is the perfect MMO for everyone.
Nice try but it isnt just my opinion, the majority from posts here to reddit, to everyone ive talked to an mmorpgs do agree with this, the only ones who dont are either unaware and only played one or two mmorpgs or are making money off of it. And of course im complaining because they are not experienmenting they are milking a gimiick, they hardly innovate and only make it passable, stop defending stuff you know that is not true.
Actually I did in some of my later posts, it was my mistake but I figured people would know by now to recongnize the state of them from all the posts ive been reading I guess the aware community was not around today, and I can see why you think this about the current state of mmorpgs and while its an optimistic way of looking at it, we are talking about now, we are not talking about them learning from mistakes and making decent mmorpgs 5 years from now.
And the problem with the experienments is that it does to much of one thing like your example of swtor which is essenitally a single player mmorpg with stripped rpg elements like leveling choices. And while there are some themeparks they arent that great, or have other serious flaws like bad voice acting or a really bad item shop. The only true good theme park we ever had was wow and I didnt even care for that mmorpg that much. Unless im forgetting one.
I did forget lotro which is to be really good but we all know how greedy they got with that game.
Swtor started out as a good themepark atleast.
Again, you are mistaking facts (objectivity) with opinion.
Your opinion (mmo genre is bad now) is indeed shared by a lot of people who post on these forums, myself included. But, just because your opinion is shared, doesn't make it a fact. The facts are that the genre is expanding and its revenue is increasing, both of which indicate the genre is in a good place.
You also have to look at the demographics. Various games have published (in the past) their demographics on raiders, pvpers, casuals etc. In a typical MMO, roughly 5% of the population raid on a regular basis and roughly 8-10% pvp on a regular basis, and there is crossover between the two.
Conversely, out of the forum posters, a significantly higher proportion participate in raids and pvp (I've seen figures between 25% and 70%).
So, we know, for a fact, that the opinions expressed on forums are not representative of the majority, and we know that the majority of players are casuals - they like easy games, they like solo games, they like short play-sessions.
Are you surprised that the market has changed over the last decade to match the majority of its audience? I'd call that good business sense! Developers are creating products that appeal to the largest market share. It just so happens that you and I aren't part of that large group, we are instead a small minority who want harder, longer, more group-orientated games.
As for experimenting, why are you complaining about new games experimenting? Its like you think you have the winning formula in your head for the perfect MMO and you consider all developers idiots if they don't match your formula. I, like most people, having an idea for MY perfect MMO, but I don't delude myself into thinking that my perfect MMO is the perfect MMO for everyone.
Nice try but it isnt just my opinion, the majority from posts here to reddit,
Thanks, you've just given me another reason not to go there. Well met, @Xorian7!
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Look its another of those I hate mmo's thread. Well considering you dont like any of them how can you say you would like them if they were only made differently? Truth is you just don't like mmo's. You want something else and few games offer that.
Look its another of those I hate mmo's thread. Well considering you dont like any of them how can you say you would like them if they were only made differently? Truth is you just don't like mmo's. You want something else and few games offer that.
Well you have to give him credit for saying that his opinion is an objective fact. You don't see that type of self-delusion every day.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
And Neverwinter is run by a company filled with shitbags. PWE is a cancer on the entire gaming industry.
How is it getting better though? Not one person was able to prove this in this thread.
Well, there's all of the AAA MMORPGS currently in Development. (none?)
Or all of the successful current MMORPGS with their published subscription figures, or accurate tally of players online with you. (besides EVE?)
How about all of the thriving, recently released, full featured KS funded MMORPGS? (wait, there's ED, but what else?)
Well hey, look at all of the variety and innovation in the genre(s).....payment models. They have dozens of ways to "take" your money. (so glad for that, am I right?)
Not to forget, the rise of pseudo MMOs which have come to dominate the online landscape. (so that 4 people playing with you is considered massively multiplayer, for real?)
Yes, no doubt about it, the MMORPG genre is "thriving" OP, you are just too blind to see it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes, no doubt about it, the MMORPG genre is "thriving" OP, you are just too blind to see it.
I only need one at a time to be happy. I don't play the "genre," I play one at a time.
And it's sort of like food, some people like variety and some have even been know to stick to just macaroni and cheese for a decade or more... know anyone like that?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Xorian7 said: How is it getting better though? Not one person was able to prove this in this thread.
What proof would you or anyone else believe? If half the people here say it's not getting worse....is that proof? You need numbers?
I provided some facts earlier here it is again and willl post as needed, this is only a very small part of the flaws in mmorpgs today.
Here are facts, mmorpgs are now way more solo focused and barely group
focused anymore, some like it this way but they are in the minority
people dont want to pay for a glorified chat room. Character
development has severaly gone under in mmorpgs since the older days,
there is barely any anymore while some devs promise it its usually one
aspect of it they rely on and people end up over hyping it.
Character
customization has gotten worse and worse, and no I dont mean your
looks, im talking about building your class/playstyle.
Nearly
every mmorpg has gone the max level in a month or less route while also
making the game incredibly easy to solo with no real group classes
anymore considering everyone has similar abilities with just different
skins.
Comments
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Your opinion (mmo genre is bad now) is indeed shared by a lot of people who post on these forums, myself included. But, just because your opinion is shared, doesn't make it a fact. The facts are that the genre is expanding and its revenue is increasing, both of which indicate the genre is in a good place.
You also have to look at the demographics. Various games have published (in the past) their demographics on raiders, pvpers, casuals etc. In a typical MMO, roughly 5% of the population raid on a regular basis and roughly 8-10% pvp on a regular basis, and there is crossover between the two.
Conversely, out of the forum posters, a significantly higher proportion participate in raids and pvp (I've seen figures between 25% and 70%).
So, we know, for a fact, that the opinions expressed on forums are not representative of the majority, and we know that the majority of players are casuals - they like easy games, they like solo games, they like short play-sessions.
Are you surprised that the market has changed over the last decade to match the majority of its audience? I'd call that good business sense! Developers are creating products that appeal to the largest market share. It just so happens that you and I aren't part of that large group, we are instead a small minority who want harder, longer, more group-orientated games.
As for experimenting, why are you complaining about new games experimenting? Its like you think you have the winning formula in your head for the perfect MMO and you consider all developers idiots if they don't match your formula. I, like most people, having an idea for MY perfect MMO, but I don't delude myself into thinking that my perfect MMO is the perfect MMO for everyone.
Better?
Nothing you have posted is objective.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
- not influenced by personal feelings or opinions. ..
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Or all of the successful current MMORPGS with their published subscription figures, or accurate tally of players online with you. (besides EVE?)
How about all of the thriving, recently released, full featured KS funded MMORPGS? (wait, there's ED, but what else?)
Well hey, look at all of the variety and innovation in the genre(s).....payment models. They have dozens of ways to "take" your money. (so glad for that, am I right?)
Not to forget, the rise of pseudo MMOs which have come to dominate the online landscape. (so that 4 people playing with you is considered massively multiplayer, for real?)
Yes, no doubt about it, the MMORPG genre is "thriving" OP, you are just too blind to see it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"Prove it!"
"...what?"
And it's sort of like food, some people like variety and some have even been know to stick to just macaroni and cheese for a decade or more... know anyone like that?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Sorry I just had to
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Here are facts, mmorpgs are now way more solo focused and barely group focused anymore, some like it this way but they are in the minority people dont want to pay for a glorified chat room.
Character development has severaly gone under in mmorpgs since the older days, there is barely any anymore while some devs promise it its usually one aspect of it they rely on and people end up over hyping it.
Character customization has gotten worse and worse, and no I dont mean your looks, im talking about building your class/playstyle.
Nearly every mmorpg has gone the max level in a month or less route while also making the game incredibly easy to solo with no real group classes anymore considering everyone has similar abilities with just different skins.