Kind of interesting this comes right on the back of the Star Citizen statement that not everything will be in at launch. I wonder if Mark saw that the reaction was not overly bad and saw a chance to give some bad news.
Anyway, I really like Mark Jacobs. He's very candid. He participated in some epic trolling on VNBoards during Warhammer defending his game. He overall seems very interested in making good games and taking pride in his work.
Ehm, Star Citizen was never going to launch "with everything".
Please do your research before you make up fantasies about this being news.
LOL at this guy defending Roberts' e-honour. No one's criticisng anything in that quote, they're just making an observation between two similar situations.
Sadly I lost a little respect for them when they announced using crunch time.
Still a lot left for everything else they've been doing, but crunch time is just bad.
If I wasn't still in school for programming, I would totally submit my name for service to help you guys out, as this would be an amazing game and experience to work on. Unfortunately, I still have a ways to go in my degree, though I know quite a bit about C# even at this stage.
However, I do have expertise in marketing and sales, as well as a TwitchTV stream and YouTube channel, and I would love to get in on the ground floor of this game to help advertise and sell some copies.
Regardless, good luck, I totally understand how complicated creating any software system can be, and the best analysis never yields perfect results. That's why checkpoints and revisions are necessary to keep an eye on expenditure and long term viability. Would love to help you get that return though.
If I wasn't still in school for programming, I would totally submit my name for service to help you guys out, as this would be an amazing game and experience to work on. Unfortunately, I still have a ways to go in my degree, though I know quite a bit about C# even at this stage.
However, I do have expertise in marketing and sales, as well as a TwitchTV stream and YouTube channel, and I would love to get in on the ground floor of this game to help advertise and sell some copies.
Regardless, good luck, I totally understand how complicated creating any software system can be, and the best analysis never yields perfect results. That's why checkpoints and revisions are necessary to keep an eye on expenditure and long term viability. Would love to help you get that return though.
Maketing, marketing, marketing.....Mark
Haroo!
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Great interview/article. Its disappointing that the beta has been delayed (again?), but on the other hand it sounds like CU will be on the home stretch once the issue with class abilities is sorted out, so that's good news.
I wouldn't say the home stretch yet, but we will be in a really good base-running position. And that's the biggest reason we made this decision. We could have absolutely chosen to go down a different path that would have been less embarrassing, and potentially less risky in the short-term, but we didn't. This decision is in the best interest of the game and our Backers in the long-term, and that's why we did it. Nobody, not even me, likes doing a "Mea Culpa" but it was the right thing to do, so we did it.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
Only if both games came out at exactly the same time, which is incredibly unlikely. Fortunately, as mentioned below, we are making two very different games and that will help both of us in both the short-term and the long-term.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I doubt it. A large portion of CU followers would probably not be inclined to play CF and vice versa. Those 2 games seem diametrically opposed in many ways. Example: character advancement. In Crowfall it's (mostly or fully) time-based so you press a few buttons and wait, while in CU it's based on active training "practice to improve it". Or targeting method / camera: in CF most attacks are aimed with a reticule like in third-person shooters, in CU it's mostly tab-target with a more zoomed out camera more similar to traditional MMORPGs. We can basically do this exercise for any of the features and I guess we quickly realize that those two games, even though they're aiming for some similar goals (PvP-oriented gameplay, player driven economy, physics, player-built structures, destruction, etc.), are developed so differently and for their own niche audience that I think it's as much about complement as it is about competition.
I believe that Crowfall releasing before Camelot Unchained would probably not impact significantly on the launch of CU. Also I'm pretty sure CF will release before CU: in late 2014 CF already had a playable prototype with many buildings, textures, destruction, powers, PvP, siege weapons, archetypes, monsters, etc. in it.
And that's a big deal. CF has the advantage in some ways because they are using Unity which gave them a big edge in the short-term. OTOH, we have an advantage of not being bound by some of Unity's limitations so that we have some advantages in the long-term. My guess is that they will launch first unless they hit some major issues with Unity/Voxel Farm (assuming they are still using that) and that would be fine by us. It will be interesting to see how things shake out. The most important consideration though is the fact that neither of us are shooting for 1M subs or anything like that nonsense. So, since both of our games are considered niche by the developers, there's plenty of room in the market for two niche PvP/RvR MMORPGs.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I wouldn't call a "direct" competitor. Yeah, both pvp games but still very different styles. More of these types of games the better IMO. I'm a backer of Crowfall but still rooting for CU.
Game development is such a house of cards - on one hand you have the backers and fans wanting it as fast as possible - on the other hand you want to deliver quality and keep the dev team sane and safe from burn out.
Also delays while giving devs a break hopefully don't deflate the morale and momentum (happens at times)- either way - clear communication on this from MJ is awesome.
Thanks! And you're right, that's why we didn't extend crunch. The team worked hard and now, they can relax a little and still work on getting the new ability system in sooner, rather than later.
More responses coming.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I am not worried.
For those PvPers who skim of surface of gaming news and events, there will definitely be overlap of audiences. But, these are very different games in important ways. And, there is absolutely no reason both cannot be excellent and fun offerings.
I am amazed by the seemingly lack of outrage and those seeking refunds due to this slowdown. The community is starting to realize that with crowdfunding you are seeing the entire process including the dirty parts and not just the sugar coated press releases close to release version. It is a fun and enlightening process.
I guess most of the folks who do not like the dirty parts are gone and we are left with mostly the inquisitive ones.
Well, we are seeing some refunds based on the delay but that was expected. I do think that our approach with our Backers is one reason they are being patient but who knows? I think it also helped that we are showing lots of progress, continual updates, etc.
Not to mention , the game will be SUB only. No free to play this time.
Yep. I said during the Kickstarter that Camelot Unchained will not go FTP and man, I mean that so much it's not even funny. I have zero interest in designing/building a FTP MMO. A mobile app is one thing, but a FTP MMORPG? Not a chance in hell, I'd rather retire.
I am amazed by the seemingly lack of outrage and those seeking refunds due to this slowdown. The community is starting to realize that with crowdfunding you are seeing the entire process including the dirty parts and not just the sugar coated press releases close to release version. It is a fun and enlightening process.
I guess most of the folks who do not like the dirty parts are gone and we are left with mostly the inquisitive ones.
I think it has more to do with the fact that most of the pledges for CU are older players that also played DAoC around 2001. We understand that fun games aren't thrown together overnight, we also understand that these are real people working for their livelihood. Many of us have been waiting 15 years for DAoC 2, I think we just want it done right this time.
I am amazed by the seemingly lack of outrage and those seeking refunds due to this slowdown. The community is starting to realize that with crowdfunding you are seeing the entire process including the dirty parts and not just the sugar coated press releases close to release version. It is a fun and enlightening process.
I guess most of the folks who do not like the dirty parts are gone and we are left with mostly the inquisitive ones.
The first two times the beta got delayed I think there were more people angry and refund requests made, the 2 most recent delay announcements I think it was way less dramatic. If anything all those beta estimations, delays and crunch get the medias' attention directed to CU and during the last crunch time with the live streaming, the daily pledges were pretty high. So it's probably not as detrimental as it may seem.
Kind of interesting this comes right on the back of the Star Citizen statement that not everything will be in at launch. I wonder if Mark saw that the reaction was not overly bad and saw a chance to give some bad news.
Anyway, I really like Mark Jacobs. He's very candid. He participated in some epic trolling on VNBoards during Warhammer defending his game. He overall seems very interested in making good games and taking pride in his work.
Nah, I've always been upfront (when I was in charge of the company) when delivering bad news. It happens at one time or another to every game, especially every MMORPG so this, sadly, wasn't news or new to me.
Thanks for the kind words and I must admit, I do miss the "old days" at times, they were fun. You are right though, I take a ton of pride in my/our work because I really care about making good/great games. I'm not doing this for the money at this point, but because I really love my job and our new studio. Thanks again for the praise.
I would rather have developers take the Fall Out 4 approach that they talk about in the interview. I hate how long the wait times for these games feels due to how early we know about them.
In a perfect world, I would do the same but in order to be funded enough that you don't need to announce the game, you 9 out of 10 times, need to use other people's money either through VC, publisher, or crowd-funding. And since I have zero interest in working for a publisher, and VC is harder to come by for MMOs (especially on the east coast) and also comes with strings, crowd-funding is necessary. And I doubt enough people would have backed us if I just said I was making a game, please fund me and I'll tell you what game in a few years.
That's why some companies are going to delay announcements of new games until just before they're ready to launch. Especially with all the streamers out there feeling that they have to put out information on upcoming games even if they no it may not be true. Today a streamer said started off by saying he knows the rumor he heard about of games launch date was probably 90% untrue but he thought it sounded interesting so he talked about it anyway. O_o
Yep.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Sadly I lost a little respect for them when they announced using crunch time.
Still a lot left for everything else they've been doing, but crunch time is just bad.
I can't disagree with you. I don't expect people to gain a lot of respect for us when we delay things, all I ask is that they understand the reasons why we are doing what we're doing and how we're doing it. I hope massive respect will come when we deliver the goods.
If I wasn't still in school for programming, I would totally submit my name for service to help you guys out, as this would be an amazing game and experience to work on. Unfortunately, I still have a ways to go in my degree, though I know quite a bit about C# even at this stage.
However, I do have expertise in marketing and sales, as well as a TwitchTV stream and YouTube channel, and I would love to get in on the ground floor of this game to help advertise and sell some copies.
Regardless, good luck, I totally understand how complicated creating any software system can be, and the best analysis never yields perfect results. That's why checkpoints and revisions are necessary to keep an eye on expenditure and long term viability. Would love to help you get that return though.
Thanks! Keep us in mind when you graduate and/or for possible internships. We hopefully will have 2 interns here this summer in addition to some new people (hopefully). And (hint hint hint) use C#/Unity to build actual games during your time in school, that counts for a lot with us.
If I wasn't still in school for programming, I would totally submit my name for service to help you guys out, as this would be an amazing game and experience to work on. Unfortunately, I still have a ways to go in my degree, though I know quite a bit about C# even at this stage.
However, I do have expertise in marketing and sales, as well as a TwitchTV stream and YouTube channel, and I would love to get in on the ground floor of this game to help advertise and sell some copies.
Regardless, good luck, I totally understand how complicated creating any software system can be, and the best analysis never yields perfect results. That's why checkpoints and revisions are necessary to keep an eye on expenditure and long term viability. Would love to help you get that return though.
Maketing, marketing, marketing.....Mark
LOL. I think most marketing people would be appalled at (or at least scared of ) how we handled things yesterday, especially during my tenure at EA. I had a number of interesting conversations about things like that when I was there.
Done! Thanks for the comments, support, questions all!
"I’d rather have people say that we suck, rather than that we lie. At least in the former, I know we can fix that problem. Once you lie, it’s there forever." Wow, when was the last time you heard a game dev say something like this?
Thank you Mark and CSE, please take your time and create something wonderful.
Of all the devs I ever interviewed, two stuck out to me for their integrity and general 'good-guyness': Mark Jacobs and Raph Koster. Neither is going to blow smoke up your ass.
I love MJ and he's always very open and honest with everyone.
I do question his judgement on keeping the studio exclusively located in Farifax, VA. Mark has been there since since the days of Mythic and before and I know it's his home. I suspect though that the requirement for programmers to move there is a major objection for many qualified candidates.
As much as Mark wants to keep things under one roof, perhaps it's time to consider allowing outsourcing or opening a very small second studio in Austin, Denver, or some other city that is desirable to a greater portion of the workforce.
Check out my stream at www.twitch.tv/purplepoloplayer!
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
"I’d rather have people say that we suck, rather than that we lie. At least in the former, I know we can fix that problem. Once you lie, it’s there forever." Wow, when was the last time you heard a game dev say something like this?
Thank you Mark and CSE, please take your time and create something wonderful.
Of all the devs I ever interviewed, two stuck out to me for their integrity and general 'good-guyness': Mark Jacobs and Raph Koster. Neither is going to blow smoke up your ass.
True. I've never been good at blowing smoke up any orifice, I just won't do it. Frankly, if I was so inclined/better at it, I'd be sitting on a fat warchest right now. Just have never been able to bring myself to do that and never will.
I love MJ and he's always very open and honest with everyone.
I do question his judgement on keeping the studio exclusively located in Farifax, VA. Mark has been there since since the days of Mythic and before and I know it's his home. I suspect though that the requirement for programmers to move there is a major objection for many qualified candidates.
As much as Mark wants to keep things under one roof, perhaps it's time to consider allowing outsourcing or opening a very small second studio in Austin, Denver, or some other city that is desirable to a greater portion of the workforce.
Well, it was a little more complicated. Both Andrew and I have strong ties/family to Virginia so we couldn't put the studio elsewhere. But you are right, that has been a problem and still will be. As far as 2nd studios, anything is possible down the road.
Of all the devs I ever interviewed, two stuck out to me for their integrity and general 'good-guyness': Mark Jacobs and Raph Koster. Neither is going to blow smoke up your ass.
I don't think we actually needs an explanation, just fix it up and get things going when it works. While we might be slightly annoyed for delays we do know making MMOs is a lot of hard work and it is better to get things right then on time.
Heck, AoC would have been several times larger if they thought like this instead of just releasing whatever they got. And MJ learned this with WAR, it is better to be late then to release things before they are ready.
Of course some people will always whine but they would whine more if the game was broken.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I think this is becoming a problem for CU: Crowfall launched their Kickstarter much later than CU, but right now CU in being constantly delayed whereas Crowfall is holding playtests. Anyone considering both games is more likely to take their money to Crowfall.
At the end of Kickstarter CU had 2.2 million pledges, and now they've managed to collect total of 4 million. At the end of Kickstarter Crowfall had 1.7 million pledges, and now they're already above 7 million. The money is right now going to Crowfall.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I think this is becoming a problem for CU: Crowfall launched their Kickstarter much later than CU, but right now CU in being constantly delayed whereas Crowfall is holding playtests. Anyone considering both games is more likely to take their money to Crowfall.
At the end of Kickstarter CU had 2.2 million pledges, and now they've managed to collect total of 4 million. At the end of Kickstarter Crowfall had 1.7 million pledges, and now they're already above 7 million. The money is right now going to Crowfall.
@Vrika CF's pledgemeter is something like $2.6M, while CU has more than $4M (you only see CU's pledgemeter, while CF has it all on display).
Also, CU's total budget is over $7M already since January or February, and above CF's - all that without showing much gameplay, without selling equity or anything alike. Say, CF already sold couple millions of equity.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I think this is becoming a problem for CU: Crowfall launched their Kickstarter much later than CU, but right now CU in being constantly delayed whereas Crowfall is holding playtests. Anyone considering both games is more likely to take their money to Crowfall.
At the end of Kickstarter CU had 2.2 million pledges, and now they've managed to collect total of 4 million. At the end of Kickstarter Crowfall had 1.7 million pledges, and now they're already above 7 million. The money is right now going to Crowfall.
@Vrika CF's pledgemeter is something like $2.6M, while CU has more than $4M (you only see CU's pledgemeter, while CF has it all on display).
Also, CU's total budget is over $7M already since January or February, and above CF's - all that without showing much gameplay, without selling equity or anything alike. Say, CF already sold couple millions of equity.
Sorry, you're right. I thought the meters of Crowfall's front page would mean pledges and backers, but it looks like they mean total funding and registered users. I was wrong, sorry.
My real fear here is that they are in direct competition with Crowfall. If either of these games beats the other to the punch and has reasonable success it will negatively impact the other.
I think this is becoming a problem for CU: Crowfall launched their Kickstarter much later than CU, but right now CU in being constantly delayed whereas Crowfall is holding playtests. Anyone considering both games is more likely to take their money to Crowfall.
At the end of Kickstarter CU had 2.2 million pledges, and now they've managed to collect total of 4 million. At the end of Kickstarter Crowfall had 1.7 million pledges, and now they're already above 7 million. The money is right now going to Crowfall.
@Vrika CF's pledgemeter is something like $2.6M, while CU has more than $4M (you only see CU's pledgemeter, while CF has it all on display).
Also, CU's total budget is over $7M already since January or February, and above CF's - all that without showing much gameplay, without selling equity or anything alike. Say, CF already sold couple millions of equity.
Sorry, you're right. I thought the meters of Crowfall's front page would mean pledges and backers, but it looks like they mean total funding and registered users. I was wrong, sorry.
@Vrika You are actually right when speaking of choice between CF and CU at this moment, CF has more to show (at least, to the naked eye - and average backer won't look much further I guess).
Also, if Crowfall keeps on selling equity (and with their pledgemeter already being faster than CU's - for the aforementioned reasons) they will soon have bigger total budget, likely in a month or two already.
Anyway, I see it as just a temporary initiative. CU should accelerate significantly once NDA goes off at some point in beta....and, as explained, CU's potential to double their budget by selling equity (while still keeping control over 50% or more) is much higher than CF's. The only question is, will Mark want to do it. Frankly, I wonder what are they waiting for!?
I am amazed by the seemingly lack of outrage and those seeking refunds due to this slowdown. The community is starting to realize that with crowdfunding you are seeing the entire process including the dirty parts and not just the sugar coated press releases close to release version. It is a fun and enlightening process.
I guess most of the folks who do not like the dirty parts are gone and we are left with mostly the inquisitive ones.
I think the dirty parts of development is a bit different than the blatant bullshit that some companies pull. When companies start bullshitting people is when you start seeing the refunds fly. If you need to delay then delay, be honest why you are delaying, be honest about what you are trying to do and most important be realistic. Once you start bullshitting though I'm out.
So far I feel that Marc as been honest with their progress and even if they do fail I don't feel like my investment was wasted, I know it was money well spent trying to advance a type of game that I want to play. With that said I can't understate how much I'm hoping that this game will be a success.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
I think this is becoming a problem for CU: Crowfall launched their Kickstarter much later than CU, but right now CU in being constantly delayed whereas Crowfall is holding playtests. Anyone considering both games is more likely to take their money to Crowfall.
At the end of Kickstarter CU had 2.2 million pledges, and now they've managed to collect total of 4 million. At the end of Kickstarter Crowfall had 1.7 million pledges, and now they're already above 7 million. The money is right now going to Crowfall.
@Vrika CF's pledgemeter is something like $2.6M, while CU has more than $4M (you only see CU's pledgemeter, while CF has it all on display).
Also, CU's total budget is over $7M already since January or February, and above CF's - all that without showing much gameplay, without selling equity or anything alike. Say, CF already sold couple millions of equity.
Sorry, you're right. I thought the meters of Crowfall's front page would mean pledges and backers, but it looks like they mean total funding and registered users. I was wrong, sorry.
Yep, that's the difference. ACE raised 2.5M prior to the launch of the KS campaign to build an early version of CF, license tech like VoxelFarm (I assume they paid for it, they showed it in the video), and build a mobile game (not connected to CF). They then did another full equity round for what I think was between 1.5 - 2M based on what they said publicly). In our case, I funded the studio myself leading into the Kickstarter. We have $3M in investor funding (myself and one of the Mythic investors) + 4M from KS. So, no matter how you slice it, we're both close to each other in terms of money being put into these games. And unsurprisingly, we're also close in the number of Backers.
@Vrika CF's pledgemeter is something like $2.6M, while CU has more than $4M (you only see CU's pledgemeter, while CF has it all on display).
Also, CU's total budget is over $7M already since January or February, and above CF's - all that without showing much gameplay, without selling equity or anything alike. Say, CF already sold couple millions of equity.
Sorry, you're right. I thought the meters of Crowfall's front page would mean pledges and backers, but it looks like they mean total funding and registered users. I was wrong, sorry.
@Vrika You are actually right when speaking of choice between CF and CU at this moment, CF has more to show (at least, to the naked eye - and average backer won't look much further I guess).
Also, if Crowfall keeps on selling equity (and with their pledgemeter already being faster than CU's - for the aforementioned reasons) they will soon have bigger total budget, likely in a month or two already.
Anyway, I see it as just a temporary initiative. CU should accelerate significantly once NDA goes off at some point in beta....and, as explained, CU's potential to double their budget by selling equity (while still keeping control over 50% or more) is much higher than CF's. The only question is, will Mark want to do it. Frankly, I wonder what are they waiting for!?
Well, as to what we are waiting for, it's really simple:
1) We don't need to sell additional equity yet. With the money in the bank, we're funded for the completion of this game assuming that disaster doesn't strike, the entire team quits, Virginia sinks under the sea, etc.
2) Because of (1), if we decided to sell equity now, it would be worth less than it will be, as you accurately point out, when we can get into Beta. We have spent very little time trying to sell bits of the company to raise money. Frankly, I've talked to a total of 4 potentially serious parties and all of them came to us and we're still in touch with 3 of them. I'm patient, we need to get into beta and then I'll be ready to talk some more. OTOH, ACE needed to sell equity because the founders weren't able to fund the portion of the game I was able to. This is no knock against them at all, we're just in different situations because of our previous games. They have done a great job of bootstrapping the company from nothing on day one to be in the position they are in now. I'm sure they are proud of what they have done to get to their current point, and should be.
One of the things about raising money JG is that when you need it, it usually costs you more in terms of equity/control. In our case, I don't want to be in a position of selling control of the company (that's why we are only in touch with 3 parties). The last time I lost financial control of the company, well, bad things happened. I won't let that happen again.
We'll be patient, and if the right partner/investor comes around, we'll be happy to talk with them. And by right, I mean, no loss of control, no turning CU FTP, or that kind of BS. Only then we can talk seriously.
I think the dirty parts of development is a bit different than the blatant bullshit that some companies pull. When companies start bullshitting people is when you start seeing the refunds fly. If you need to delay then delay, be honest why you are delaying, be honest about what you are trying to do and most important be realistic. Once you start bullshitting though I'm out.
So far I feel that Marc as been honest with their progress and even if they do fail I don't feel like my investment was wasted, I know it was money well spent trying to advance a type of game that I want to play. With that said I can't understate how much I'm hoping that this game will be a success.
Thanks! Me too. I want to succeed for financial reasons since I'm the lead investor, but I also want to play the damn game we're making.
And yeah, I'll always be honest, whether the news is good, bad or indifferent. I promised that to our Backers during the Kickstarter, and I'll stick to that, now and forever. I owe them that.
I see a huge red flag. No one bothered to expand the architecture, that was only in for demo purposes, until this week???? C'mon, you've got to be kidding me. How could this possibly be overlooked? This is too bizarre to believe that expert level programmers, developers, and engineers overlooked this KEY ASPECT.
I ain't even worried. Keep doing what you do CSE. I have plenty of Early Access games on my Steam Library that turned to turds. take your time and make all of our investments (time and money) worth it.
I look forward to the game, WHEN IT'S READY.
Comments
LOL at this guy defending Roberts' e-honour.
No one's criticisng anything in that quote, they're just making an observation between two similar situations.
Still a lot left for everything else they've been doing, but crunch time is just bad.
However, I do have expertise in marketing and sales, as well as a TwitchTV stream and YouTube channel, and I would love to get in on the ground floor of this game to help advertise and sell some copies.
Regardless, good luck, I totally understand how complicated creating any software system can be, and the best analysis never yields perfect results. That's why checkpoints and revisions are necessary to keep an eye on expenditure and long term viability. Would love to help you get that return though.
Thank you for you support, as always, and your patience.
I wouldn't say the home stretch yet, but we will be in a really good base-running position.
LOL. Maybe a CUBE NPC?
Appreciate that.
No doubt, no doubt.
Only if both games came out at exactly the same time, which is incredibly unlikely. Fortunately, as mentioned below, we are making two very different games and that will help both of us in both the short-term and the long-term.
And that's a big deal. CF has the advantage in some ways because they are using Unity which gave them a big edge in the short-term. OTOH, we have an advantage of not being bound by some of Unity's limitations so that we have some advantages in the long-term. My guess is that they will launch first unless they hit some major issues with Unity/Voxel Farm (assuming they are still using that) and that would be fine by us. It will be interesting to see how things shake out. The most important consideration though is the fact that neither of us are shooting for 1M subs or anything like that nonsense. So, since both of our games are considered niche by the developers, there's plenty of room in the market for two niche PvP/RvR MMORPGs.
Yep, as per above.
Thanks! And you're right, that's why we didn't extend crunch. The team worked hard and now, they can relax a little and still work on getting the new ability system in sooner, rather than later.
More responses coming.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Agreed.
Well, we are seeing some refunds based on the delay but that was expected. I do think that our approach with our Backers is one reason they are being patient but who knows? I think it also helped that we are showing lots of progress, continual updates, etc.
Yep. I said during the Kickstarter that Camelot Unchained will not go FTP and man, I mean that so much it's not even funny. I have zero interest in designing/building a FTP MMO. A mobile app is one thing, but a FTP MMORPG? Not a chance in hell, I'd rather retire.
Yep.
I hope not, I'll know more after the weekend.
Nah, I've always been upfront (when I was in charge of the company) when delivering bad news. It happens at one time or another to every game, especially every MMORPG so this, sadly, wasn't news or new to me.
Thanks for the kind words and I must admit, I do miss the "old days" at times, they were fun. You are right though, I take a ton of pride in my/our work because I really care about making good/great games. I'm not doing this for the money at this point, but because I really love my job and our new studio. Thanks again for the praise.
In a perfect world, I would do the same but in order to be funded enough that you don't need to announce the game, you 9 out of 10 times, need to use other people's money either through VC, publisher, or crowd-funding. And since I have zero interest in working for a publisher, and VC is harder to come by for MMOs (especially on the east coast) and also comes with strings, crowd-funding is necessary. And I doubt enough people would have backed us if I just said I was making a game, please fund me and I'll tell you what game in a few years.
Yep.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
LOL, I brought donuts! I did, I did! And we have tons of coffee and it's free too!
I can't disagree with you. I don't expect people to gain a lot of respect for us when we delay things, all I ask is that they understand the reasons why we are doing what we're doing and how we're doing it. I hope massive respect will come when we deliver the goods.
I have a set of them in the fridge. I was snacking on them during my last livestream writing binge.
Thanks! Keep us in mind when you graduate and/or for possible internships. We hopefully will have 2 interns here this summer in addition to some new people (hopefully). And (hint hint hint) use C#/Unity to build actual games during your time in school, that counts for a lot with us.
LOL. I think most marketing people would be appalled at (or at least scared of ) how we handled things yesterday, especially during my tenure at EA.
Done! Thanks for the comments, support, questions all!
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Thank you Mark and CSE, please take your time and create something wonderful.
I do question his judgement on keeping the studio exclusively located in Farifax, VA. Mark has been there since since the days of Mythic and before and I know it's his home. I suspect though that the requirement for programmers to move there is a major objection for many qualified candidates.
As much as Mark wants to keep things under one roof, perhaps it's time to consider allowing outsourcing or opening a very small second studio in Austin, Denver, or some other city that is desirable to a greater portion of the workforce.
You're welcome!
Thanks! I hope you and your buddies will join us.
True. I've never been good at blowing smoke up any orifice, I just won't do it.
Well, it was a little more complicated. Both Andrew and I have strong ties/family to Virginia so we couldn't put the studio elsewhere. But you are right, that has been a problem and still will be. As far as 2nd studios, anything is possible down the road.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Heck, AoC would have been several times larger if they thought like this instead of just releasing whatever they got. And MJ learned this with WAR, it is better to be late then to release things before they are ready.
Of course some people will always whine but they would whine more if the game was broken.
At the end of Kickstarter CU had 2.2 million pledges, and now they've managed to collect total of 4 million. At the end of Kickstarter Crowfall had 1.7 million pledges, and now they're already above 7 million. The money is right now going to Crowfall.
@Vrika CF's pledgemeter is something like $2.6M, while CU has more than $4M (you only see CU's pledgemeter, while CF has it all on display).
Also, CU's total budget is over $7M already since January or February, and above CF's - all that without showing much gameplay, without selling equity or anything alike. Say, CF already sold couple millions of equity.
Sorry, you're right. I thought the meters of Crowfall's front page would mean pledges and backers, but it looks like they mean total funding and registered users. I was wrong, sorry.
Also, if Crowfall keeps on selling equity (and with their pledgemeter already being faster than CU's - for the aforementioned reasons) they will soon have bigger total budget, likely in a month or two already.
Anyway, I see it as just a temporary initiative. CU should accelerate significantly once NDA goes off at some point in beta....and, as explained, CU's potential to double their budget by selling equity (while still keeping control over 50% or more) is much higher than CF's. The only question is, will Mark want to do it. Frankly, I wonder what are they waiting for!?
So far I feel that Marc as been honest with their progress and even if they do fail I don't feel like my investment was wasted, I know it was money well spent trying to advance a type of game that I want to play. With that said I can't understate how much I'm hoping that this game will be a success.
And unsurprisingly, we're also close in the number of Backers.
Well, as to what we are waiting for, it's really simple:
1) We don't need to sell additional equity yet. With the money in the bank, we're funded for the completion of this game assuming that disaster doesn't strike, the entire team quits, Virginia sinks under the sea, etc.
2) Because of (1), if we decided to sell equity now, it would be worth less than it will be, as you accurately point out, when we can get into Beta. We have spent very little time trying to sell bits of the company to raise money. Frankly, I've talked to a total of 4 potentially serious parties and all of them came to us and we're still in touch with 3 of them.
One of the things about raising money JG is that when you need it, it usually costs you more in terms of equity/control. In our case, I don't want to be in a position of selling control of the company (that's why we are only in touch with 3 parties). The last time I lost financial control of the company, well, bad things happened. I won't let that happen again.
We'll be patient, and if the right partner/investor comes around, we'll be happy to talk with them. And by right, I mean, no loss of control, no turning CU FTP, or that kind of BS. Only then we can talk seriously.
Thanks! Me too. I want to succeed for financial reasons since I'm the lead investor, but I also want to play the damn game we're making.
And yeah, I'll always be honest, whether the news is good, bad or indifferent. I promised that to our Backers during the Kickstarter, and I'll stick to that, now and forever. I owe them that.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
But of course, I had something small in mind - just a couple millions.
I have no faith we will see this game.
I look forward to the game, WHEN IT'S READY.