“When a game is designed for kids, game developers shouldn’t be allowed to monetize addiction,” Hawley said. “And when kids play games designed for adults, they should be walled off from compulsive microtransactions.”
Kids should not be allowed to play games designed for adults because that's why they keep censoring games and we, adults, have to put up with that crap.
“When a game is designed for kids, game developers shouldn’t be allowed to monetize addiction,” Hawley said. “And when kids play games designed for adults, they should be walled off from compulsive microtransactions.”
Kids should not be allowed to play games designed for adults because that's why they keep censoring games and we, adults, have to put up with that crap.
As an adult who lives in a state that allows private home gambling - I dont need any politicians or government to come to my rescue or my kids rescue.
I got that covered, thanks
It's not about coming to your rescue or to the rescue of those not needing it. It's more about curbing bad practices that companies practice.
It's like drinking...you can't walk around drinking while driving or while sitting in a public place etc etc.
It's the same kind of thing otherwise we would have people doing parties in public parks making bonfires and hiring strippers and selling bootleg booze when your kids are trying to go play ball..now for some people this wouldn't be an issue but for some it is. It's like this, has nothing to do with the govment trying to be our mommies and saving us.
It comes down to what is acceptable in our society and what isn't. The wild wild west days are long gone unless you're a redneck living off grid deep in the mountains somewhere.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Bro... kickstand on the loot boxes, and microtransactions for now. We'll live.
Just FYI, this will have no effect on Loot Boxes, or mincrotarsnions in the game, in regards to adults. This is all about the children, and a means by which they will not be able to spend their parents money without their parents knowing about it.
Will it work better than parental lock/parental control features?
I wager it will be different, as those features don't stop your kid from buying something on a phone game, after you set them up a purchasing account.
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
100% ignorant. WTF would anybody leave a kid with a purchasing account where they can make transactions without any guardian approval? Even the worst parents don't want some rugrat wiping their credit card clean.
Also iPhone and Androids have family management tools, hell so do game systems, so does Steam, so do routers.
I'm not one of those "do gudder at parenting" guys when it comes to corporate abuses, but in this instance they're kinda right. Right now, part of being a household leader means being an IT person for your family. If it's too much work, remove the tech. Invoking ignorance isn't a good excuse.
I just think chasing a bill like this RIGHT NOW on a federal level is like trying to fix pH levels of faucet water during a biblical flood.
If your kid keeps banging your credit card because they have a lootbox problem, I think the immediate and safer bet is to maybe manage your credit card and peripherals so it doesn't happen again. Waiting for a bill to pass in todays climate with minors well being in the balance isn't wise.
The mental retard population of the US can't even get to common sense fire arm restrictions. They'd rather walk around with civil liberty rifles in front of unarmed Americans or suck Wayne La'Pierres beef for a 20% discount. Frankly, who things happen to and where = chickens coming home to roost.
I'm sorry for the rant, but politicians priorities are annoying AF man.
In case you didn't know this, which you know, maybe you didn't if you don't play Mobile games.
But, mobile games are often set up so that once you buy something from them, it's set up so you have a one button purchase in the future, because they discovered that the more they allow you to think about the purchase the less impulse it is, and this decrease the sales. So this was not in their best interest to make it harder for you to spend money with them.
While this is all fine and good to do to adult, when it comes to children, who may not even be aware of how much they are spending or it's overall value, in the span of minutes your child can rack up a bill easily in the thousands, simply because you processed a 5 dollar booster pack purchase 10 minutes ago, and didn't jump through the hoops to remove the credit card info before making dinner, because.. well hell.. your child can't be that stupid, after all.. that's YOUR genes at work there.. right.
Well anyway.. I think it is a good idea to have mobile game accounts flagged as minor's accounts, so that these one-button sales are not enabled on those devices, as one thing I have learned working in construction for over 25 years.. there are a LOT of stupid people.. and most of them think they are far Smarter than they really are, and any time you wanna talk about regulations out the ass.. work in construction.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
How is this even real? My kid bought 100$ worth of "gems" ONE TIME. It will never happen again. Why? Because I'm the parent.
Perhaps looking past the child safety moniker would help, when considering it's the same principle here as exists behind the gambling laws that already exists in the US and other nations. Laws that are put in place to regulate exploitative behavior in general that can and does affect adults and children alike. Children are just the front and center excuse in this instance.
How is this even real? My kid bought 100$ worth of "gems" ONE TIME. It will never happen again. Why? Because I'm the parent.
Google Quotes on "Human Stupidity"
It becomes pretty obvious how this happens.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Unpopular Opinion: nobody here cares about the kids or the gambling or the negative effects on society--none of you have that problem, and besides some rare news about some one in million case never heard about anyone else having that problem--you just want the lootboxes gone from your games cause you hate em and that's that!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Unpopular Opinion: nobody here cares about the kids or the gambling or the negative effects on society--none of you have that problem, and besides some rare news about some one in million case never heard about anyone else having that problem--you just want the lootboxes gone from your games cause you hate em and that's that!
I've always been 100% up front about that: They suck good loot out of the core game play and this is why I hate them.
Having said that, I'll happily go along with anyone with any cause whose aim is getting rid of them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don’t think loot boxes are gambling any more than buying a pack of baseball cards. It’s when people have no control of their spending (like children) that it becomes an issue. People didnt try to ban baseball cards, they limited the amount of money their children had access to. I’m not a fan of loot boxes or pay to win, so perhaps my perspective is skewed for thinking this a non-issue.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Unpopular Opinion: nobody here cares about the kids or the gambling or the negative effects on society--none of you have that problem, and besides some rare news about some one in million case never heard about anyone else having that problem--you just want the lootboxes gone from your games cause you hate em and that's that!
I've always been 100% up front about that: They suck good loot out of the core game play and this is why I hate them.
Having said that, I'll happily go along with anyone with any cause whose aim is getting rid of them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
Indeed.
Thing is this doesn't make the wanting loot boxes taken out or even to become illegal a bad thing or a wrong thing. Which is what I mean by the whole "govment daddy" bad thing being a tired, old and ineffective complaint.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I don’t like government interference. It’s actually pretty easy to just not pay for shit. Do you really need someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and can’t buy?
The people who who want it banned are not the ones that buy them. They’re the ones that want the stuff without having to gamble to get it. Be careful what you wish for. You’ll regret it.
I don’t like government interference. It’s actually pretty easy to just not pay for shit. Do you really need someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and can’t buy?
The people who who want it banned are not the ones that buy them. They’re the ones that want the stuff without having to gamble to get it. Be careful what you wish for. You’ll regret it.
How do you proceed with any kind of law making if the attitude is "I don't want government to tell me what I can and can't do"?
Laws are supposed to be the framework of a working society. The rules the majority agreed upon for a functional society.
Do you think that when the first laws regarding casinos were established, there weren't people presenting the exactly same rhetoric? Why are now these laws accepted in your opinion?
Unpopular Opinion: nobody here cares about the kids or the gambling or the negative effects on society--none of you have that problem, and besides some rare news about some one in million case never heard about anyone else having that problem--you just want the lootboxes gone from your games cause you hate em and that's that!
I've always been 100% up front about that: They suck good loot out of the core game play and this is why I hate them.
Having said that, I'll happily go along with anyone with any cause whose aim is getting rid of them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
Indeed.
Thing is this doesn't make the wanting loot boxes taken out or even to become illegal a bad thing or a wrong thing. Which is what I mean by the whole "govment daddy" bad thing being a tired, old and ineffective complaint.
I agree with that as well but this is a side issue that gets into political philosophy territory which IMO, these forums are not up to the task of discussing intelligently
I'll just say this: there has been a very well orchestrated and very successful campaign worldwide for several decades to promote the "regulations are bad" agenda that a large number of people - even those who have nothing to gain by supporting it - knee jerk to that tune instinctively.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Unpopular Opinion: nobody here cares about the kids or the gambling or the negative effects on society--none of you have that problem, and besides some rare news about some one in million case never heard about anyone else having that problem--you just want the lootboxes gone from your games cause you hate em and that's that!
I've always been 100% up front about that: They suck good loot out of the core game play and this is why I hate them.
Having said that, I'll happily go along with anyone with any cause whose aim is getting rid of them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
Indeed.
Thing is this doesn't make the wanting loot boxes taken out or even to become illegal a bad thing or a wrong thing. Which is what I mean by the whole "govment daddy" bad thing being a tired, old and ineffective complaint.
I agree with that as well but this is a side issue that gets into political philosophy territory which IMO, these forums are not up to the task of discussing intelligently
I'll just say this: there has been a very well orchestrated and very successful campaign worldwide for several decades to promote the "regulations are bad" agenda that a large number of people - even those who have nothing to gain by supporting it - knee jerk to that tune instinctively.
One might also think there is also a very well orchestrated campaign worldwide that suggests regulation is the answer to everything. I don't believe either exists, it is human nature to think we can bring in rules that will solve everything, experience shows us they can work well or be counter productive. Judge each policy on its own merits.
Here I am on the side of regulation, I find it hard to see how anyone who has not seen the changes that have occurred to gaming over the past twenty years thinks there is any other solution. Self regulation would have been better, but we see no sign of that here. Indeed in this case gaming organisations intend to show how everything is fine, which shows us how little recognition there is in the industry of this issue.
"And when kids play games designed for adults."
Kids shouldn't play games for adults, just like kids shouldn't drink alcohol or smoke.
Maybe put down the same rules for games designed for adults as for tobacco and alcohol.
I don’t like government interference. It’s actually pretty easy to just not pay for shit. Do you really need someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and can’t buy?
The people who who want it banned are not the ones that buy them. They’re the ones that want the stuff without having to gamble to get it. Be careful what you wish for. You’ll regret it.
Hogwash. I never buy rng loot boxes, I want them banned as I think they are a bane to our games in general secondly saying this is okay is also a bad message to send companies.
That's like saying we should remove the legal drinking age and the no drinking and driving laws cause you know, "Do you really need someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and can’t buy?" or do.
One might also think there is also a very well orchestrated campaign worldwide that suggests regulation is the answer to everything. I don't believe either exists, it is human nature to think we can bring in rules that will solve everything, experience shows us they can work well or be counter productive. Judge each policy on its own merits.
Here I am on the side of regulation, I find it hard to see how anyone who has not seen the changes that have occurred to gaming over the past twenty years thinks there is any other solution. Self regulation would have been better, but we see no sign of that here. Indeed in this case gaming organisations intend to show how everything is fine, which shows us how little recognition there is in the industry of this issue.
Agreed there's far too much toting the party line BS going on on both sides which is why stuff that should be common sense just doesn't get done even when it should be a clearly bipartisan effort, but I digress.
I also agree with your assessment of what has happened in the gaming industry clearly shows the time to even think of self regulation has passed and proved to be a failure.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
And what about legal action to take against all the parents letting their children play said games? So ass backwards...
That only goes so far. Have you seen the games on the App stores? So called children games who are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics.
It has gotten completely out of hand. It's pratically impossible to find a game without P2W transactions and lootbox mechanics.
Innocent games like Roblox has also become extreme with P2W mechanics and Loot box mechanics (spinning wheel for loot).
All you can do as Parent now, is talking with your child and explaining to them that bad people are making bad things in these games and trying to ignore it when playing.
It's either that or completely ban our son from playing games altogether. Which is not a good thing either, as it will backfire on you as parent when your child becomes a teenager and just do stuff in secret and behind your back. Which is a far worse scenario.
“When a game is designed for kids, game developers shouldn’t be allowed to monetize addiction,” Hawley said. “And when kids play games designed for adults, they should be walled off from compulsive microtransactions.”
Kids should not be allowed to play games designed for adults because that's why they keep censoring games and we, adults, have to put up with that crap.
As an adult who lives in a state that allows private home gambling - I dont need any politicians or government to come to my rescue or my kids rescue.
I got that covered, thanks
I bet that if the authorities found out that your private home gambling was milking millions from underage children you would spending 10+ years in the state pen. Just say'n...
How does an underage child get milked through gambling?
And what about legal action to take against all the parents letting their children play said games? So ass backwards...
That only goes so far. Have you seen the games on the App stores? So called children games who are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics.
It has gotten completely out of hand. It's pratically impossible to find a game without P2W transactions and lootbox mechanics.
Innocent games like Roblox has also become extreme with P2W mechanics and Loot box mechanics (spinning wheel for loot).
All you can do as Parent now, is talking with your child and explaining to them that bad people are making bad things in these games and trying to ignore it when playing.
It's either that or completely ban our son from playing games altogether. Which is not a good thing either, as it will backfire on you as parent when your child becomes a teenager and just do stuff in secret and behind your back. Which is a far worse scenario.
And not give them money. It really is that simple. Stop being lazy and TEACH YOUR CHILDREN.
"And when kids play games designed for adults."
Kids shouldn't play games for adults, just like kids shouldn't drink alcohol or smoke.
Maybe put down the same rules for games designed for adults as for tobacco and alcohol.
To note.
ESRB and similar regulations are not government, they are corporate entities that are used for the market to ostensibly self-regulate, in an attempt to do what you say without the government having to intervene.
Issue is, the ESRB for one, does not enforce laws, as they cannot enforce laws. This includes age restrictions, they can only offer guidelines. Meaning if you want gaming to use the alternative of age restriction regulations, you are simply referring to another form of regulation.
Which also cycles to the point, there are many states and some federal laws surrounding gambling and predatory practice already. It's just that those laws do not extend to cover digital media consistently or accurately. The regulations like the ones proposed are things that would be extending current existing regulations to cover such gaps.
Either way, it's an extension of pre-existing regulations, not creation of entirely new ones.
Bigger thing to note would really be the point that for a long time gaming has gotten by with the likes of the ESRB, but in the last decade or so we've managed to see a sharp decline in their reliability and good faith towards customers. With the lobbying the ESRB and surrounding corporations have done to try and preserve the business practices of digital gambling and the style of microtransactions you see prevalent in the mobile marketplace, it's created an increasingly large divide in the whole value vs profit of gaming.
The first time my kid cried because he didn’t get the toy he wanted I told him that’s why you don’t gamble, buddy, it’s a ripoff. My kids don’t gamble.
And what about legal action to take against all the parents letting their children play said games? So ass backwards...
That only goes so far. Have you seen the games on the App stores? So called children games who are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics.
It has gotten completely out of hand. It's pratically impossible to find a game without P2W transactions and lootbox mechanics.
Innocent games like Roblox has also become extreme with P2W mechanics and Loot box mechanics (spinning wheel for loot).
All you can do as Parent now, is talking with your child and explaining to them that bad people are making bad things in these games and trying to ignore it when playing.
It's either that or completely ban our son from playing games altogether. Which is not a good thing either, as it will backfire on you as parent when your child becomes a teenager and just do stuff in secret and behind your back. Which is a far worse scenario.
And not give them money. It really is that simple. Stop being lazy and TEACH YOUR CHILDREN.
Yes of course don't give them money.
But its just frustrating to see your child struggling through these games and having to deal with P2W in games that are rated All Ages, 4, 7 and 12 year rated which are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics. So it's not limited to 18+ games today! Since there are no regulations on this!!
This should be outright banned and made illegal on games rated below 18!
And what about legal action to take against all the parents letting their children play said games? So ass backwards...
That only goes so far. Have you seen the games on the App stores? So called children games who are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics.
It has gotten completely out of hand. It's pratically impossible to find a game without P2W transactions and lootbox mechanics.
Innocent games like Roblox has also become extreme with P2W mechanics and Loot box mechanics (spinning wheel for loot).
All you can do as Parent now, is talking with your child and explaining to them that bad people are making bad things in these games and trying to ignore it when playing.
It's either that or completely ban our son from playing games altogether. Which is not a good thing either, as it will backfire on you as parent when your child becomes a teenager and just do stuff in secret and behind your back. Which is a far worse scenario.
And not give them money. It really is that simple. Stop being lazy and TEACH YOUR CHILDREN.
Yes of course don't give them money.
But its just frustrating to see your child struggling through these games and having to deal with P2W in games that are rated All Ages, 4, 7 and 12 year rated which are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics. So it's not limited to 18+ games today! Since there are no regulations on this!!
This should be outright banned and made illegal on games rated below 18!
Ok so at least here we have a little more sensible thinking. Banning from kid rated games. Still hard to really enforce but at least it's not just "ban it from existence because I don't like it". People really really need to stop with the knee jerk emotion fueled demands. It's damn right dangerous.
The US should follows China's lead and just take a few of the exec's from these gaming companies out the back of the office and put a bullet in their heads, they will self regulate real fast then.
Comments
Kids should not be allowed to play games designed for adults because that's why they keep censoring games and we, adults, have to put up with that crap.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
But, mobile games are often set up so that once you buy something from them, it's set up so you have a one button purchase in the future, because they discovered that the more they allow you to think about the purchase the less impulse it is, and this decrease the sales. So this was not in their best interest to make it harder for you to spend money with them.
While this is all fine and good to do to adult, when it comes to children, who may not even be aware of how much they are spending or it's overall value, in the span of minutes your child can rack up a bill easily in the thousands, simply because you processed a 5 dollar booster pack purchase 10 minutes ago, and didn't jump through the hoops to remove the credit card info before making dinner, because.. well hell.. your child can't be that stupid, after all.. that's YOUR genes at work there.. right.
Well anyway.. I think it is a good idea to have mobile game accounts flagged as minor's accounts, so that these one-button sales are not enabled on those devices, as one thing I have learned working in construction for over 25 years.. there are a LOT of stupid people.. and most of them think they are far Smarter than they really are, and any time you wanna talk about regulations out the ass.. work in construction.
It becomes pretty obvious how this happens.
Having said that, I'll happily go along with anyone with any cause whose aim is getting rid of them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
The people who who want it banned are not the ones that buy them. They’re the ones that want the stuff without having to gamble to get it. Be careful what you wish for. You’ll regret it.
Laws are supposed to be the framework of a working society. The rules the majority agreed upon for a functional society.
Do you think that when the first laws regarding casinos were established, there weren't people presenting the exactly same rhetoric? Why are now these laws accepted in your opinion?
I'll just say this: there has been a very well orchestrated and very successful campaign worldwide for several decades to promote the "regulations are bad" agenda that a large number of people - even those who have nothing to gain by supporting it - knee jerk to that tune instinctively.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Here I am on the side of regulation, I find it hard to see how anyone who has not seen the changes that have occurred to gaming over the past twenty years thinks there is any other solution. Self regulation would have been better, but we see no sign of that here. Indeed in this case gaming organisations intend to show how everything is fine, which shows us how little recognition there is in the industry of this issue.
Kids shouldn't play games for adults, just like kids shouldn't drink alcohol or smoke.
Maybe put down the same rules for games designed for adults as for tobacco and alcohol.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
That only goes so far. Have you seen the games on the App stores? So called children games who are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics.
It has gotten completely out of hand. It's pratically impossible to find a game without P2W transactions and lootbox mechanics.
Innocent games like Roblox has also become extreme with P2W mechanics and Loot box mechanics (spinning wheel for loot).
All you can do as Parent now, is talking with your child and explaining to them that bad people are making bad things in these games and trying to ignore it when playing.
It's either that or completely ban our son from playing games altogether. Which is not a good thing either, as it will backfire on you as parent when your child becomes a teenager and just do stuff in secret and behind your back. Which is a far worse scenario.
ESRB and similar regulations are not government, they are corporate entities that are used for the market to ostensibly self-regulate, in an attempt to do what you say without the government having to intervene.
Issue is, the ESRB for one, does not enforce laws, as they cannot enforce laws. This includes age restrictions, they can only offer guidelines. Meaning if you want gaming to use the alternative of age restriction regulations, you are simply referring to another form of regulation.
Which also cycles to the point, there are many states and some federal laws surrounding gambling and predatory practice already. It's just that those laws do not extend to cover digital media consistently or accurately. The regulations like the ones proposed are things that would be extending current existing regulations to cover such gaps.
Either way, it's an extension of pre-existing regulations, not creation of entirely new ones.
Bigger thing to note would really be the point that for a long time gaming has gotten by with the likes of the ESRB, but in the last decade or so we've managed to see a sharp decline in their reliability and good faith towards customers. With the lobbying the ESRB and surrounding corporations have done to try and preserve the business practices of digital gambling and the style of microtransactions you see prevalent in the mobile marketplace, it's created an increasingly large divide in the whole value vs profit of gaming.
The first time my kid cried because he didn’t get the toy he wanted I told him that’s why you don’t gamble, buddy, it’s a ripoff. My kids don’t gamble.
But its just frustrating to see your child struggling through these games and having to deal with P2W in games that are rated All Ages, 4, 7 and 12 year rated which are full of P2W microtransactions and loot box mechanics. So it's not limited to 18+ games today! Since there are no regulations on this!!
This should be outright banned and made illegal on games rated below 18!