The Wagadu Chronicles Alpha 1 Begins in February | MMORPG.com

bcbully

I figured it wouldn't take long for usuals types to come in with the usual type bs. I saw the post count going up and figured it was happening. 

I'm pleasantly surprised to see it not going the way I thought was. Well done mmorpg fam. It's a good look. Keep it up.

Kyleran

Rungar said:

maskedweasel said:

Rungar said:

worldsbestdad said:

I know they're going for the exact opposite of this, but...Why does this feel like this is about to be the most painfully racist game I have ever experienced?

That's how Satanism works. You set out with an ideal and achieve the exact opposite of that while you blame those your attacking of .....being you. 

personally they lost me with D&D rules and no elves, dwarves or gnomes..

its high fantasy for me.. or nothing lol. 

I think that's kind of the interesting thing about this game. I don't know anything about African lore at all. 

There could be some awesome stuff there, I've just never had any exposure to it. 

Since I've had tons of exposure to Asian games over the years I know quite a bit about that lore. It doesn't make those games "racist" because it hinges on those cultures.  

I dont know if this game will be for me,  playability wise,  but I'm happy to see a new setting finally. 

oh I wish them well i'm just not interested in this nor an Irish or native american ( like myself) earth culture based mmo.  

this game will likely fail miserably simple because its not high fantasy and when it does then well see whose fault it is. 

i like high fantasy for a reason.  

Shallow thinking, narrow minded, lacking in imagination all come to mind, which is it?

Rungar

Kyleran said:

Rungar said:

maskedweasel said:

Rungar said:

worldsbestdad said:

I know they're going for the exact opposite of this, but...Why does this feel like this is about to be the most painfully racist game I have ever experienced?

That's how Satanism works. You set out with an ideal and achieve the exact opposite of that while you blame those your attacking of .....being you. 

personally they lost me with D&D rules and no elves, dwarves or gnomes..

its high fantasy for me.. or nothing lol. 

I think that's kind of the interesting thing about this game. I don't know anything about African lore at all. 

There could be some awesome stuff there, I've just never had any exposure to it. 

Since I've had tons of exposure to Asian games over the years I know quite a bit about that lore. It doesn't make those games "racist" because it hinges on those cultures.  

I dont know if this game will be for me,  playability wise,  but I'm happy to see a new setting finally. 

oh I wish them well i'm just not interested in this nor an Irish or native american ( like myself) earth culture based mmo.  

this game will likely fail miserably simple because its not high fantasy and when it does then well see whose fault it is. 

i like high fantasy for a reason.  

Shallow thinking, narrow minded, lacking in imagination all come to mind, which is it?

if you want to know why its simple. What ever is presented wont be the truth. Therefore I don't like games based on real world cultures and prefer fantasy. While both will be completely fabricated, only one is honest about it.   

bcbully

Rungar said:

Kyleran said:

Rungar said:

maskedweasel said:

Rungar said:

worldsbestdad said:

I know they're going for the exact opposite of this, but...Why does this feel like this is about to be the most painfully racist game I have ever experienced?

That's how Satanism works. You set out with an ideal and achieve the exact opposite of that while you blame those your attacking of .....being you. 

personally they lost me with D&D rules and no elves, dwarves or gnomes..

its high fantasy for me.. or nothing lol. 

I think that's kind of the interesting thing about this game. I don't know anything about African lore at all. 

There could be some awesome stuff there, I've just never had any exposure to it. 

Since I've had tons of exposure to Asian games over the years I know quite a bit about that lore. It doesn't make those games "racist" because it hinges on those cultures.  

I dont know if this game will be for me,  playability wise,  but I'm happy to see a new setting finally. 

oh I wish them well i'm just not interested in this nor an Irish or native american ( like myself) earth culture based mmo.  

this game will likely fail miserably simple because its not high fantasy and when it does then well see whose fault it is. 

i like high fantasy for a reason.  

Shallow thinking, narrow minded, lacking in imagination all come to mind, which is it?

if you want to know why its simple. What ever is presented wont be the truth. Therefore I don't like games based on real world cultures and prefer fantasy. While both will be completely fabricated, only one is honest about it.   

I had to do a quick check. It is indeed a fantasy game. What, Africa doesn't have magic and monsters? hmmm

Rungar

but does it have elves, dwarves and gnomes?

bcbully

Rungar said:

but does it have elves, dwarves and gnomes?

There is no such thing as “races” in Wagadu, everybody is one people. Ancestry manifests in different ways, they call them “lineages” – you are usually born in one, but for various reasons some people can switch during their lives.

The Lionblood

The Swala

The Emere

The Ironmasters

The Daa’ima

The Ikaki

The Asiman

Looks like Elves might be Swala

Kyleran

tzervo said:

Rungar said:

if you want to know why its simple. What ever is presented wont be the truth. Therefore I don't like games based on real world cultures and prefer fantasy. While both will be completely fabricated, only one is honest about it.   

That's actually an interesting take on it.

Ignoring the fact almost every high fantasy game has humans as a race which are almost always a fabrication as any other races such as elves and such.

Silly reasoning....is still silly.

Greatness

lordsmok said:

nobody cares about woke games

I failed to see how this is a “woke” game when they are making a game with a different setting than you might see in a “traditional” or “stereotypical” MMO.. Regardless very niche game, willing to try and maybe go into it knowing I should not be expecting a traditional MMO.

TiamatRoar

bcbully said:

Rungar said:

but does it have elves, dwarves and gnomes?

There is no such thing as “races” in Wagadu, everybody is one people. Ancestry manifests in different ways, they call them “lineages” – you are usually born in one, but for various reasons some people can switch during their lives.

The Lionblood

The Swala

The Emere

The Ironmasters

The Daa’ima

The Ikaki

The Asiman

Looks like Elves might be Swala

Hmm, from that pic alone, it looks like it has its own take on an elven race at the very least. (or maybe oni or... well, it's definitely something fantasy)

Aeander

bcbully said:

Rungar said:

but does it have elves, dwarves and gnomes?

There is no such thing as “races” in Wagadu, everybody is one people. Ancestry manifests in different ways, they call them “lineages” – you are usually born in one, but for various reasons some people can switch during their lives.

The Lionblood

The Swala

The Emere

The Ironmasters

The Daa’ima

The Ikaki

The Asiman

Looks like Elves might be Swala

Wow, bcbully expressing interest in something that isn't about NFTs. It must be the end of the world.

(Or is this game selling Nigerian Prince Coin and I just didn't know about it?)

olepi

The game isn't about combat and domination, it's about "role playing". No PvP, no dungeon runs, you can kill an antelope if you pray to it first??

A crafting game with a whiff of a survival game? Where is the fun aspect if we can't destroy our enemies?

Actually, I might like it, a crafting sim in Second Life Africa.

Rungar

Book of Travels comes to mind TBH. Lets face it. We all play games to crush, kill, destroy and maybe bake a little bread on the side....if theres time.  

bcbully

Aeander said:

bcbully said:

Rungar said:

but does it have elves, dwarves and gnomes?

There is no such thing as “races” in Wagadu, everybody is one people. Ancestry manifests in different ways, they call them “lineages” – you are usually born in one, but for various reasons some people can switch during their lives.

The Lionblood

The Swala

The Emere

The Ironmasters

The Daa’ima

The Ikaki

The Asiman

Looks like Elves might be Swala

Wow, bcbully expressing interest in something that isn't about NFTs. It must be the end of the world.

(Or is this game selling Nigerian Prince Coin and I just didn't know about it?)

Slow day in the markets. 2 Weeks before The Red Village launches. Mining rig chugging away. Learning about Flux. 

Just taking a few minutes sniffing around for forum PvP.

Rockinw311

Quizzical said:

worldsbestdad said:

I know they're going for the exact opposite of this, but...Why does this feel like this is about to be the most painfully racist game I have ever experienced?

From what little they've shown, that looks to me like a case of you projecting your own expectations onto a game.  Neither the web site of the game or the company, nor the kickstarter scream "woke".  They have a single sentence at the bottom of a page mentioning diversity in passing, and that's all that I saw.

A game based in a particular part of the world and in an era before it was common for people to travel thousands of miles could readily have all of the characters in the game of the same race, at least for the big racial buckets that people use today.

That's not a statement about race.  It's just a statement about the setting of the game.  In A Tale in the Desert, all of the characters are nominally Egyptian.  In Tree of Savior, all of the human characters are nominally Lithuanian (or at least Romuva).  In Romance of the Three Kingdoms, they're all Chinese.  That's just the background setting for the game, and the companies managed to make their games just fine without creating a big fuss about race.

That doesn't mean that the game will be good or bad.  At this point, we really don't know.

I haven't done much research here on all of their articles, videos, tweets, KS info, etc., but I did seem to recall one of their videos was specifically talking about race, not just locale or even culture. Doing a quick skim on this site:

https://www.mmorpg.com/videos/riot-backed-afrofantasy-mmorpg-the-wagadu-chronicles-has-entered-kickstarter-2000119495

"The approach taken to create this fantasy world was: "What if Tolkien were black?". Just as Tolkien did, a lot of time was spent researching the mythologies and traditions of people, but in this case across the African continent. The result is seven "lineages", which are similar to fantasy "races" but more nuanced, with overlapping cultures and more fluid identities."

That said, i'm not taking a side here. I'll wait to see how this develops, but questions about how race and culture will tie into this game don't seem too far fetched based on limited statements so far

Personally, I'm rooting for a game like this that is able to "walk the line" without crossing it

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Scot

Remali said:

I dont understand they use something like 5e dnd rules which are amongst the most combat oriented tabletop but they wont have alot of combat in their game ??

DnD is the one gaming system to rule them all, the brand is all that matters, many people when asked what is roleplaying will answer "DnD". We get far too many computer games based on it and it is in my opinion not that good. Particularly not that good for video games, but here we are again. That said I am not even sure the in game rules are based on DnD but I would presume so.

Scot

lordsmok said:

nobody cares about woke games

This is not a "woke" game, but the media will treat this with special attention because it is Afro-fantasy. That's not the studios fault, it is high time we looked outside of Europe and the Far East for MMO inspiration.

klash2def

"Ah shit. Here we go again." - C.J. GTA San Andreas.

All the "this is woke" people are making me very excited for this game. I did some research and not only was it not so-called "woke" it is a very good concept.  Not a big 5e guy but DND that is not euro-centric sounds fresh and exciting. Can't wait to see how it turns out. 

Also

Im very happy to see all the smart, logical people explaining why this isn't so-called woke.. but as one of the few black people around this joint, also much younger than a lot of you, I have a different perspective to offer.

I hope it helps but also, fair warning, I don't care if you agree, nor do I need or want you to agree. 

This "wOkE!" reaction I've been seeing here for years now is problematic beyond the scope of what I can write here but I will try.

Read this next part carefully. 

Stop randomly applying the woke label to anything you don't agree with.

“Woke” is not, and has not been for some time now, a viable descriptor for anyone who is critical of the many serious excesses of the left yet remains interested in reaching beyond their own echo chamber.

The term has been co-opted and diluted of meaning by lazy ideologues and bad-faith actors on the right, which is a shame since it’s more poetic and evocative than any pithy substitute they can think of. Black folks have been saying "stay woke" since the 60s, it is part of AAVE. 

((I know the people that use this terminology are very lazy so here is an article to help you understand why you should never use "woke" in the way you use it.))
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2021/04/19/why-white-people-should-stop-using-the-term-wokeimmediately/?sh=2a2300ad7779]

QUOTE FROM FORBES ARTICLE:

"However, in more recent months, the term has increasingly traded it’s more positive-intentioned “conscious” connotation for a pejorative, condescending one.

Increasingly, influencers (oftentimes but not always White) have latched onto the term “woke” and weaponized it as an easy way to dismiss or discount a racial issue, platform or grievance offhand as extreme or utterly nonsensical.

To be fair, are there issues, platforms, or grievances on the topic of race that are extreme and utterly nonsensical? Certainly, as that would be true of any topic, but this deceptively simple four-letter word has become the anti-racism napalm that we don’t need in the struggle for heightened awareness and sensitivity around complex racial issues.

The term’s use often prevents the deep, honest, sometimes uncomfortable conversation that arguably is our only pathway to real reconciliation. Let’s face it – engaging in sensitive, nuanced conversations around race is challenging enough without the irresponsible insertion of the term “woke” providing an ideological off-ramp that shuts down any real listening, learning, or self-reflection on issues that really require all three for authentic progress.

“Throwing terms like ‘woke’ around as a way to dismiss the very real and consequential concerns of an entire group of people is just another way of saying, ‘I don’t want to be inconvenienced by your pain,’” insists equity consultant and C-suite advisor, Tara Jaye Frank.

In fact, when White people weaponize the term “woke” during a discussion, it doesn’t just disrespectfully discount that specific person or issue but also sends a not-so-subtle message to their peers that if something feels extreme to you, you have a license to just discount it. This type of signaling is counterproductive if not dangerous. After all, White people prioritizing their feelings over racial justice progress is arguably what has held us in a purgatory of racial inequity for centuries."

/End quote

If only you knew how you look. Because what you are really saying is you hate any discourse that isn't a direct representation of yourself. Outside of your whiteness, it is an inconvenience. 

That's a sad default setting but I don't feel sorry for you. Not at all. You choose to be this way. There is no middle ground with equality. Either you are for it, or you aren't. It's simple. Pick a side.

Stop saying things are woke, just because you see a BIPOC and feel challenged by it.

It's lazy and frankly makes you look racist, weak, and uneducated. 

What's funnier is the same people that think an RPG game that features black people is woke, would say Happy Birthday on MLK day but at the same time, if he were starting today they would call the preacher from Atlanta "Woke" also. 

It's the same group of people. "MAGA! COVID19 is a hoax! Storm The Capital because our guy didn't win! CRT is bad for telling the truth! Im against it if it's different! They are taking our rights!"

It never ends. I long for the day when I can visit a gaming site, see news about a cool-looking game, or a show that features black folks, and not see a bunch of conservative boomers discussing why they are offended. Maybe in the next 10 years. SC release date.

Slapshot1188

"If only you knew how you look. Because what you are really saying is you hate any discourse that isn't a direct representation of yourself. Outside of your whiteness, it is an inconvenience. "

1 this is dumb at it's face value. And 2 I have no idea what color anyone is on a message board unless they proclaim it. 

Now that we have had both sides "Woke!!" and "Not Woke!!" fully display their warts, lets get back to the game itself.   Who here has signed up for the Alpha?  Do we know if it's under NDA?

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

"If only you knew how you look. Because what you are really saying is you hate any discourse that isn't a direct representation of yourself. Outside of your whiteness, it is an inconvenience. "

1 this is dumb at it's face value. And 2 I have no idea what color anyone is on a message board unless they proclaim it. 

Now that we have had both sides "Woke!!" and "Not Woke!!" fully display their warts, lets get back to the game itself.   Who here has signed up for the Alpha?  Do we know if it's under NDA?

Why did you feel the need to address my post if you wanted to focus on the game?

Because you did exactly what I was talking about.

You tried to dismiss everything I said by saying "let's get back to the game".. after multiple posters said their part on the wokeness claim. 

As if I wasn't talking about the game and addressing the people that think the game is woke also. I did what everyone else did just in more detail. 

You are part of the problem no doubt about it. I dont care if you agree, you literally just did it. It's not the first time either. Like seriously what's your deal?

Do you like black guys sir?

You want my attention so bad in every thread, I'm starting to think you have a crush. 

Also If you want to take a poll of the people on this site please be my guest. I am willing to bet most people here are white. You included. Its not hard to tell based on the conversations I've seen here for over a decade. 

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

"If only you knew how you look. Because what you are really saying is you hate any discourse that isn't a direct representation of yourself. Outside of your whiteness, it is an inconvenience. "

1 this is dumb at it's face value. And 2 I have no idea what color anyone is on a message board unless they proclaim it. 

Now that we have had both sides "Woke!!" and "Not Woke!!" fully display their warts, lets get back to the game itself.   Who here has signed up for the Alpha?  Do we know if it's under NDA?

Why did you feel the need to address my post if you wanted to focus on the game?

Because you did exactly what I was talking about.

You tried to dismiss everything I said by saying "let's get back to the game".. after multiple posters said their part on the wokeness claim. 

As if I wasn't talking about the game and addressing the people that think the game is woke also. I did what everyone else did just in more detail. 

You are part of the problem no doubt about it. I dont care if you agree, you literally just did it. It's not the first time either. Like seriously what's your deal?

Do you like black guys sir?

You want my attention so bad in every thread, I'm starting to think you have a crush. 

Also If you want to take a poll of the people on this site please be my guest. I am willing to bet most people here are white. You included. Its not hard to tell based on the conversations I've seen here for over a decade. 

Not going to further entertain you.  I pointed out the ridiculousness of it and let it stand.

So... do you have alpha access?  Planning to get it?  Do you know if it will be under NDA?

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

Why did you feel the need to address my post if you wanted to focus on the game?

Because you did exactly what I was talking about.

You tried to dismiss everything I said by saying "let's get back to the game".. after multiple posters said their part on the wokeness claim. 

As if I wasn't talking about the game and addressing the people that think the game is woke also. I did what everyone else did just in more detail. 

You are part of the problem no doubt about it. I dont care if you agree, you literally just did it. It's not the first time either. Like seriously what's your deal?

Do you like black guys sir?

You want my attention so bad in every thread, I'm starting to think you have a crush. 

Also If you want to take a poll of the people on this site please be my guest. I am willing to bet most people here are white. You included. Its not hard to tell based on the conversations I've seen here for over a decade. 

Not going to further entertain you.  I pointed out the ridiculousness of it and let it stand.

So... do you have alpha access?  Planning to get it?  Do you know if it will be under NDA?

klash2def

tzervo said:

klash2def said:

It never ends. I long for the day when I can visit a gaming site, see news about a cool-looking game, or a show that features black folks, and not see a bunch of conservative boomers discussing why they are offended. Maybe in the next 10 years. SC release date.

In this thread there were fortunately just a couple posts pushing this agenda. Most discussions were actually about the game itself, I found this refreshing.

"Conservative boomers" sounds derogatory as well, it is bad form to criticize a derogatory controversial term and go use another. It just reenforces an "us vs them" mentality.

I liked the rest of the post, gonna read the links at first opportunity.

Fair enough but as I said, Im interested in telling the truth. I don't care if people agree. 

Most of the people that use "Woke" in the way it's being used not only in this thread but over the years esp since the Trump era have conservative boomer or adjacent views. Views they themselves have shared on this website. When I say Conservative I mean that and when I say boomer, Im referring to the main age group of thinkers from that group. 

That isn't meant to be an insult it's just a fact. Im not a liberal, Im more progressive in my personal views than anything else but I do have friends that are conservative in their views and they don't use terms like "woke" in the discussion, it's just silly.. they also aren't boomers.

It's not an insult, logically I don't get why people think it is one. I guess it's part of this culture of playing the struggle Olympics, but I digress. 

Boomer is a real thing. Like Millennials and Genx.

Rungar

I just dont think it will work. Making any mmo is tough but I just don't think there's a large audience interested in African culture and the game ideas presented in general.  


in contrast high fantasy has a much larger potential audience as such diminishing your audience into niche cultural themed game is likely a bad idea. 

White people are not the cause of all your problems. Evil people, like the ones that own forbes and everything else, are. They come in all colors. When the last white person is eliminated, which might not be as far out as you think, you will know true hell as there will no longer be a need to maintain this illusion that has you spellbound. 
 

Scorchien

As a Native American that has been exploring and learning about so many other cultures thru gaming since the 80s , this is an opportunity to explore and learn about yet another culture that has been mostly untapped in the gaming world .. 

   Last year we finally got a game in "This is My Land " that explores the Native American Indian struggles during the colonization and move West .. It's a survival atmosphere and a unique experience .. A very solid game with a fresh approach ( altho I had to hound the devs for over a year to get women into the game) They are/were so intrigal to Native Americans survival )

Exploring a new culture should be a welcome experience to anyone with any curiosity to how we got where we are .. 

Wagadu looks interesting its systems tho will surely determine how far it will go,  I think they really need to hit on the struggles of that age and provide a real feel for survival/culture/art/cooking/ hunting etc .. 

And hopefully for them they can pull some players in that may otherwise not give it a look ,it will need this to get traction as the demographic they are targeting is small in the market and will need to capture outside of it to succeed..