Originally posted by daylight01 Originally posted by Drachasor
I said if an MMO went BELOW 100k after the 1st 6 months it is subpar. I clarified that statement to make it clear I was not talking about 99k or things very close to 100k. When I question how well you are comprehending me, it is simple things like you not seeming to understand what "below 100k" means that lead me to this conclusion.
Anyhow, if we go by 2007 numbers (first ones that came up), then the games with over 300k subs are: Dofus, Entropia Universe, Fallen Sword, FFXI, Guild Wars, Knight Online, Lineage, Lineage 2, MagiKnights, Runescape, Second Life, Tibia, WoW. 150k-300k Subs: EVE (it has grown out of this category since 2007, I bleieve), Everquest II, Lotro 100k-150k: CoH, DAoC, Everquest, Ultima Online, Toontown Online (going from MMOGDATA) So there are plenty that do over 100k and a lot of the sub 100k ones are things like Star Wars: Galaxies which have had major problems. Just because it is limping along doesn't mean it is a great game. Others have had slow recoveries from bad launches (but a bad launch just means it was a poor game at launch for whatever reason). Oh, and you can certainly say "read what I write" but I don't think we should get into a detailed discussion on the various uses of tenses in English. That's rather off-topic.
Are you kidding me here? Am I being set up to be punked? I asked you to name P2P games that have over 150k and you come back with maybe 1 or 2 and a bunch of free to play games! Look lets just end this as it seems it is going no where fast. Maybe you just punked yourself, most of those are pay to play.
haha another self righteous goon. I don't live in my parents basement, I own my own home, in this economy so many people blame for their woes (PS stop using your credit cards and spending twice your monthly income morons). I never said this game was perfect, not once in my post, AND just because a game is not good for ONE person doesn't mean they should be telling people to avoid it like the plague just because they don't like it. That's the problem with most gamers these days, if it doesn't work for them, than obviously it shouldn't work for anyone right? wrong. Let people make their own educated, unbiased choice. Gamers these days expect games to be something....miraculous....life altering.....life DEFINING! In my eyes, that's sad, really sad. In the end STO is fun, and that's all it needs to be, I don't play mmo's because I expect this one game to fullfill my gaming needs for 12+ months, I play it because its fun, and when it starts to not be fun, I stop playing. Stop expecting these games ot be works of art a la piccaso and you wont be so fricken dissapointed.
PS and if you were expecting a free open world sandbox mmo from STO, I ROFL. Companies like Cryptic are out there to make money and if there is a SURE FIRE way NOT to make money, its to release a sandbox MMO. As nice as they are, and I do enjoy them, Im playing Fallen Earth right now while I play STO, they don't make money, period.
Judging from the negativity of these posts, I think I'll wait on this one. Hopefully it becomes a more fleshed out game, as it seems pretty shallow based on these reviews. I was looking forward to this one too, but I guess it's just another half baked release. Cryptic seems hell bent on establishing a negative reputation with Champions and now this.
Way to judge for yourself, hey im heading over the edge of the bridge here, care to come with me? pure lemming...
This thread has negative and positive posts and we can assume that he read both. So its clear that he had to made a decision for himself.
Yes I am biased. I don't like Cryptic and the way they rush out games to turn a quick profit and ruin IP's in doing so. I don't like their cash shop model. I don't like much about how they go about making games, but if you don't believe everything I have said is true in a way then enjoy the game and talk to me in 3 months.
It wouldn't surprise me if being rushed out the door is Atari's doing.
I play DDO, made by Turbine, and Atari was their publisher too. Atari made them push the game out 6 months too early when it still had a ways to go, and then Atari didn't even do any of their publishing/advertising responsibility and left Turbine to fend for themselves (which they've done pretty well for themselves being left on their own).
Seeing as how both Champions Online and STO are also published by Atari, it seems to me that they may simply be carrying on their tradition of making the developers release the game early, grab their money and run, leaving the developing company holding the bag.
Added to that is the fact that Atari is currently being sued by both Turbine AND Hasbro for shady business practices and it's entirely possible Atari wanted the game out fast for some quick money before they got hit too hard by the lawsuits.
Ill be waiting till the free trial to check it out. To many statements by various beta and closed beta people, lead me to believe this is a relatively shallow game, similar to COH/COV but in the star trek universe. I am sure many people will enjoy it, just not the game for me these days, after years of MMO playing.
I'd definitely say if you are not a die hard star trek fan, you should wait and see on this game. There are currently too many design issues, such as load screens every time you use a turbolift (hint: 3-4 times per trip to station npcs), all space weapons appearing to have the same range (10km), and an over reliance on existing mmo conventions (as far as I'm told, a phaser has two settings: stunkill and a button; so why do I have to be level 20 to use one?).
From my exposure with the game so far, it appears to be a combination of the economy of City of Heroes, the land battles of Pirates of the Burning Sea, and a toned down version of the Champions Online character creator.
haha another self righteous goon. I don't live in my parents basement, I own my own home, in this economy so many people blame for their woes (PS stop using your credit cards and spending twice your monthly income morons). I never said this game was perfect, not once in my post, AND just because a game is not good for ONE person doesn't mean they should be telling people to avoid it like the plague just because they don't like it. That's the problem with most gamers these days, if it doesn't work for them, than obviously it shouldn't work for anyone right? wrong. Let people make their own educated, unbiased choice. Gamers these days expect games to be something....miraculous....life altering.....life DEFINING! In my eyes, that's sad, really sad. In the end STO is fun, and that's all it needs to be, I don't play mmo's because I expect this one game to fullfill my gaming needs for 12+ months, I play it because its fun, and when it starts to not be fun, I stop playing. Stop expecting these games ot be works of art a la piccaso and you wont be so fricken dissapointed.
PS and if you were expecting a free open world sandbox mmo from STO, I ROFL. Companies like Cryptic are out there to make money and if there is a SURE FIRE way NOT to make money, its to release a sandbox MMO. As nice as they are, and I do enjoy them, Im playing Fallen Earth right now while I play STO, they don't make money, period.
This IS ALL that needs to be said!
I agree with alot of what your saying, people get way to worked up, they start believing the marketing hype. But I disagree when you said Sand Boxes cant work. I truelly believe a sandbox done right and is a working model, which is truely hard to do, economys in games like that are very hard to manage. Just look at EVE thiers alot I hate about EVE's economy.
But look at SWG 2003 it had 300k subs at 15$ per for 12 months that is 54million. SWG had a population until they destroyed the sandbox. From 2003 to 2006 they took in 207 million, that is $207,000,000 not including box sales. Now look at what happens when you take away a system that alot of people liked. 2007 the subs dropped to 100k and have been hovering around thier since. It still has made about 54 million since the NGE. But if they kept it as a sandbox they could be looking at 162 million. Turns out more people wanted to be Uncle Owen.
Today I did an informal poll about STO on the gaming alias at work, and the results were nothing short of stunning.
26 people (including myself) either played beta or spent time with a friend or spouse playing and all but 2 decided they are not going to buy at/before launch and/or canceled preorders. The other two were undecided.
The funny thing is that in this crowd, there were past and present players of most MMOs you'd heard of and almost all had the same criticisms or feelings. A few quotes from the mail chain:
"This is it?!?"
"Combat and....?"
"Not much in the way of crafting, is there?"
"Ground missions seem underpolished"
"No Z axis? Freespace had a Z axis."
"Seems like Champions in Space"
"Where's the rest of it?"
"Glad I didn't pre-order / Just got online and canceled the pre-order"
"Cryptic strikes (out) again."
And a whole lot of colorful comments on what STO is and what it can do with itself, what Cryptic can go do to themselves, and what Cryptic can do with STO and places they should put it.
The universal feeling was at least we got to discover how bad this thing was and not buy another coaster. By my count, that is more than $1k Cryptic will not be getting from my crowd.
Best Comment: "Anyone that buys STO, after reading this email thread, deserves what they get."
If the combat is good, then I could see buying and playing STO if it had no subscription fee. Seems very similar in a number of ways to Guild Wars (save STO has fleet battles, but that's a very small part of the content) and I wouldn't pay a monthly fee for that. Well, maybe I'd want it a bit more polished...I don't know. That said, I don't have access to beta atm and I'm not sure how good the combat actually is. There's some mixed reports (though less mixed than other things, generally positive), but lasting combat fun is something you can't easily call in the initial week of playing the game.
Today I did an informal poll about STO on the gaming alias at work, and the results were nothing short of stunning. 26 people (including myself) either played beta or spent time with a friend or spouse playing and all but 2 decided they are not going to buy at/before launch and/or canceled preorders. The other two were undecided. The funny thing is that in this crowd, there were past and present players of most MMOs you'd heard of and almost all had the same criticisms or feelings. A few quotes from the mail chain: "This is it?!?" "Combat and....?" "Not much in the way of crafting, is there?" "Ground missions seem underpolished" "No Z axis? Freespace had a Z axis." "Seems like Champions in Space" "Where's the rest of it?" "Glad I didn't pre-order / Just got online and canceled the pre-order" "Cryptic strikes (out) again." And a whole lot of colorful comments on what STO is and what it can do with itself, what Cryptic can go do to themselves, and what Cryptic can do with STO and places they should put it.
The universal feeling was at least we got to discover how bad this thing was and not buy another coaster. By my count, that is more than $1k Cryptic will not be getting from my crowd. Best Comment: "Anyone that buys STO, after reading this email thread, deserves what they get."
Your point is? Besides I know 24 people who hate mmo's in general does that mean much? Nope not in the overall scheme of things. Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't? Are they looking to reinforce their own opinion? What would the purpose of that be? There's no need to feel your opinion needs backing, it's yours embrace it and move on.
Sorry I'm not singling you out in anyway, just making a broad stroke on all posts like this. People like to make up their own mind for the most part, unless they're incapable of doing such of course. No need to warn outside of leaving a single comment on your given gripe in an appropriate thread.
I've disliked most MMO's since I gave up on galaxies, and not once have I felt the need to tell all about it. Some games just aren't for me, but I decided that for myself, again just as most people do.
Maybe it's peer pressure? Trying to pressure your peers into a boycott or something along those lines? I really don't get it, with every release it gets worse and worse. The floods of pointless posts that amount to nothing more than nah nah nahnah nah, we don't like the game you made.
Sometimes I wonder if some people are simply this miserable they feel the need to bring everyone else down. WHich would make sense to focus your efforts on gaming forums dedicated to newly released games, it's a place you will find happy people.
Other times I think it's people who were burned (no pun intended), who simply can't let go and want whatever it was they feel was taken away back (SWG as an example)). Whatever the case is that creates posters of this sort, there's no arguing they're not overly cynical.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
to me it feels alot like a cross between WAR and CO. It's gonna be alot of fun in the beginning, lots of action, but very little substance. It's missing, to me, alot of things which make a mmorpg a mmorpg.Being a sci fi nut (admittedly i am a star wars lover...but i love the sci fi genre regardless) i am very disappointed in the shallowness of the game in its current state.
Dangit, this mmo plays like a mmo. We been tricked!
It does? Since when did you see instance nr 63 in another MMO?
This game does NOT play like a typical MMO, it is more instanced and has more loading screens than AoC. There is zero sense of community because the shere number of instances pretty much makes it so that you cant form any decent sense of community with anyone.
The whole game is like a multiplayer game with instance created for each playing ground. Much like Diablo and Starcraft (the latter is an RTS I know, but that is not the point).
It's what Cryptic does. Whores out IP's and pushes cookie cutter games out the door as fast as possible that are full of fluff and shallow gameplay. They will put up a cash shop and push lifetime subs i'm sure, and plenty will fall for it and in a few months time retention will start to drop. Go Cryptic! Way to ruin one of the greatest scifi IP's available to MMO's.
Today I did an informal poll about STO on the gaming alias at work, and the results were nothing short of stunning. 26 people (including myself) either played beta or spent time with a friend or spouse playing and all but 2 decided they are not going to buy at/before launch and/or canceled preorders. The other two were undecided. The funny thing is that in this crowd, there were past and present players of most MMOs you'd heard of and almost all had the same criticisms or feelings. A few quotes from the mail chain: "This is it?!?" "Combat and....?" "Not much in the way of crafting, is there?" "Ground missions seem underpolished" "No Z axis? Freespace had a Z axis." "Seems like Champions in Space" "Where's the rest of it?" "Glad I didn't pre-order / Just got online and canceled the pre-order" "Cryptic strikes (out) again." And a whole lot of colorful comments on what STO is and what it can do with itself, what Cryptic can go do to themselves, and what Cryptic can do with STO and places they should put it.
The universal feeling was at least we got to discover how bad this thing was and not buy another coaster. By my count, that is more than $1k Cryptic will not be getting from my crowd. Best Comment: "Anyone that buys STO, after reading this email thread, deserves what they get."
Your point is? Besides I know 24 people who hate mmo's in general does that mean much? Nope not in the overall scheme of things. Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't? Are they looking to reinforce their own opinion? What would the purpose of that be? There's no need to feel your opinion needs backing, it's yours embrace it and move on.
Sorry I'm not singling you out in anyway, just making a broad stroke on all posts like this. People like to make up their own mind for the most part, unless they're incapable of doing such of course. No need to warn outside of leaving a single comment on your given gripe in an appropriate thread.
I've disliked most MMO's since I gave up on galaxies, and not once have I felt the need to tell all about it. Some games just aren't for me, but I decided that for myself, again just as most people do.
Maybe it's peer pressure? Trying to pressure your peers into a boycott or something along those lines? I really don't get it, with every release it gets worse and worse. The floods of pointless posts that amount to nothing more than nah nah nahnah nah, we don't like the game you made.
Sometimes I wonder if some people are simply this miserable they feel the need to bring everyone else down. WHich would make sense to focus your efforts on gaming forums dedicated to newly released games, it's a place you will find happy people.
Other times I think it's people who were burned (no pun intended), who simply can't let go and want whatever it was they feel was taken away back (SWG as an example)). Whatever the case is that creates posters of this sort, there's no arguing they're not overly cynical.
The point is not 24 people will not be buying STO, but 24 of of 26 experienced MMO players in one little group at one company who have tried the beta, or played the beta "with" someone, will not be buying.
As to " Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't?", this is a freaking game forum, where people come discuss MMOs, with the positive and negatives of current and upcoming games. Get the concept?
If I (and my group) is cynical about all the hype and fanboi BS surrounding new games, there is plenty of good reason to be. The last several major releases have ranged from good (but with no longterm sustainability) to sub par. And collectively, like many people, we are tired of buying $50 coasters.
And that is why many of we "haters" take the time to post in forums like these, to counter the uber fanbois, some of whom are undoubtedly paid shills and viral marketeers hired by the company itself or the PR firm they use. If there were no people posting alternative viewpoints, then every game released in the last 3 years is the "Bestest Game EVA!!!" or so the spin and hype would have you believe. Which is the same reason most "official" reviews are worthless these days.
Bottom line is Cryptic did STO fast, cheap and shallow, especially for the IP they are using. For some people, it will still be good enough or something new, which is also good enough. Cryptic hopes people will buy the hype and spin and sell some boxes to recoup their investment. But people are getting sick of "the same old thing" and half finished, shallow crap being sold at $50 +$15/mo.
The point is not 24 people will not be buying STO, but 24 of of 26 experienced MMO players in one little group at one company who have tried the beta, or played the beta "with" someone, will not be buying. As to " Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't?", this is a freaking game forum, where people come discuss MMOs, with the positive and negatives of current and upcoming games. Get the concept? If I (and my group) is cynical about all the hype and fanboi BS surrounding new games, there is plenty of good reason to be. The last several major releases have ranged from good (but with no longterm sustainability) to sub par. And collectively, like many people, we are tired of buying $50 coasters. And that is why many of we "haters" take the time to post in forums like these, to counter the uber fanbois, some of whom are undoubtedly paid shills and viral marketeers hired by the company itself or the PR firm they use. If there were no people posting alternative viewpoints, then every game released in the last 3 years is the "Bestest Game EVA!!!" or so the spin and hype would have you believe. Which is the same reason most "official" reviews are worthless these days.
Bottom line is Cryptic did STO fast, cheap and shallow, especially for the IP they are using. For some people, it will still be good enough or something new, which is also good enough. Cryptic hopes people will buy the hype and spin and sell some boxes to recoup their investment. But people are getting sick of "the same old thing" and half finished, shallow crap being sold at $50 +$15/mo. And that is what we have here....
Well put! I could not have said it better myself.
I for one will wait and see if this game develops into something better, given the fact that currently it sounds like a shallow experience. Who knows maybe Cryptic will prove the Fanbois right...although I would not count on it.
The point is not 24 people will not be buying STO, but 24 of of 26 experienced MMO players in one little group at one company who have tried the beta, or played the beta "with" someone, will not be buying. As to " Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't?", this is a freaking game forum, where people come discuss MMOs, with the positive and negatives of current and upcoming games. Get the concept? If I (and my group) is cynical about all the hype and fanboi BS surrounding new games, there is plenty of good reason to be. The last several major releases have ranged from good (but with no longterm sustainability) to sub par. And collectively, like many people, we are tired of buying $50 coasters. And that is why many of we "haters" take the time to post in forums like these, to counter the uber fanbois, some of whom are undoubtedly paid shills and viral marketeers hired by the company itself or the PR firm they use. If there were no people posting alternative viewpoints, then every game released in the last 3 years is the "Bestest Game EVA!!!" or so the spin and hype would have you believe. Which is the same reason most "official" reviews are worthless these days.
Bottom line is Cryptic did STO fast, cheap and shallow, especially for the IP they are using. For some people, it will still be good enough or something new, which is also good enough. Cryptic hopes people will buy the hype and spin and sell some boxes to recoup their investment. But people are getting sick of "the same old thing" and half finished, shallow crap being sold at $50 +$15/mo. And that is what we have here....
MY point was you didn't discuss the game at all, you're post has nothing to do with the game what so ever. To me it seemed as though you're simply trying to get a rise out of people.
My point has nothing to do with people here actually discussing the game, I prefer to hear the bad and good about anything. However again what at all does your post say about the game except 20 or so people don't like it? How is that information on the game? It simply isn't informative in any way.
Now if you had said why they don't like the game and pointed out real issue that would be a totally different story. You can drop the BS that It's a "freaking game forum", we're all aware of this, did you see me make this statement toward the OP? Nope
Because he had gripes on the actual game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Man... there really are a lot of folks on these forums who just utterly hate one company (or a few), are hugely angry and confrontational, and seem to spend most of their time on here fanning flames. Since every major game and company has a little cabal of these folks, its making the MMO forums seem brutally negative these days. To say "well thats because 95% of MMOs DO suck!" is completely specious. This is like saying "my proof that you're a jerk and justification for calling you a jerk is that I think you're a jerk"
I realize that Cryptic gets a TON of hate, but I think CoH is hardly an example of a company not supporting a game long term. I notice that the post that cataloged all of the enhancements to CoH over the years was ignored. I suppose it's better to ignore a decent point and some evidence then to admit that maybe your extremist opinion isn't always 100% justified.
Anyway... I checked out STO and, as a huge fan of the IP, I was disappointed. It was a fun enough game in many ways, but it didnt capture the "flavor" of ST to me. I'll keep an eye on it over time, but I decided not to PO (my friend has been in beta). I think ST is a really tough IP to implement, to be honest, and while it seems like the MMO genre would be a fit, it probably isnt since the type of mechanics that would most capture the essence of ST most likely wouldnt make for a commercially viable MMO.
I think the bigger of an ST fan you are, the more you should probably wait and see. For me it was the little things... The fact that everyone is a "captain". The fact that the crew is sort of reduced to little more than an item. The fact that your vessel feels like "you" when you're playing (something I also didnt like about EVE). More than all of this though, was that the environment sort of felt like window dressing to me. It's tough to explain, so I think ST fans need to experience it first hand. Love it or hate it, I believe that WoW truly brought the Warcraft universe to life. Maybe some will argue that, but for me, WoW exceeded expectations in terms of making Azeroth "real". ST does not. It's fun, but it really does sort of feel like a skinned version of a standard Cryptic MMO. Not necessarily bad, but also not really great considering it is supposed to be ST.
I realize that Cryptic gets a TON of hate, but I think CoH is hardly an example of a company not supporting a game long term. I notice that the post that cataloged all of the enhancements to CoH over the years was ignored. I suppose it's better to ignore a decent point and some evidence then to admit that maybe your extremist opinion isn't always 100% justified.
NCSoft owns CoH and has for a long time. The people that made CoH work for them and left Cryptic when CoH was bought. CO is really the best example of how Cryptic handles released works atm.
Its not like CO. Never have I felt like a super hero in space.
The more I play the more i feel that heavy instancing was the way to go. Seeing 40 people in the same mission doesnt feel like going where no man has gone before. And its not as bad as other instance games due to the grouping system. I havnt played in this many pick up groups in a loooong time. And yes people talk in team chat mostly about tactics but if its a small mission and easy its silence. Plus youll travel for awhile since most missions have a few points you have to visit. You realy dont miss having a large amount of people around you. Probaly cause of the IP and theme.
They did crafting the only way plausable for the IP. How many times did you see kirk, picard or any other captains slaving away at a bench grinding away for a +4 phaser rifle. Instead you have finding reagents in missions and even in sector space. Collecting enough to get an item, some items even require other items plus regeants to get. Its like any other crafting without grinding crafting. And no gathering grind. would be silly if you had alien artifact gathering skill then biological gathering skill and so forth. Your a captain with a crew full of professionals. Not a Warlock picking flowers.
Space feels like space, I realy dont feel like traveling 30 minutes of emptyness just to do a mission. Maps feel big. Its not like ur in a small box as some like to play it out around here.
<b>It feels like a star trek game to me. </b>
I think alot of people wanted it to feel like a star trek show or movie but cryptic wasnt going to make a star trek virtual world. Everyone knew they were makeing a star trek theme park.
It seems the OP only played to level 4 or something. Imagine this comment in any MMORPG... "OMG I only have 2 abilities in combat at level 4" "OMG there are only missions at level 4" f you had played any MMORPG you would know that low level content is limited, you should really consider deleting this post...
I have asked ingame about END GAME content, but noone replied.
So I'm asking it here: DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS END GAME LIKE IN STO?
It seems the OP only played to level 4 or something. Imagine this comment in any MMORPG... "OMG I only have 2 abilities in combat at level 4" "OMG there are only missions at level 4" f you had played any MMORPG you would know that low level content is limited, you should really consider deleting this post...
I have asked ingame about END GAME content, but noone replied.
So I'm asking it here: DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS END GAME LIKE IN STO?
Thank you for your replies.
To Date none has been announced. Skip this assult on the senses and wait for something much better. It also starts with Star.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
Comments
Eh I can think of worse ones than STO.
Am I being set up to be punked?
I asked you to name P2P games that have over 150k and you come back with maybe 1 or 2 and a bunch of free to play games!
Look lets just end this as it seems it is going no where fast.
Maybe you just punked yourself, most of those are pay to play.
haha another self righteous goon. I don't live in my parents basement, I own my own home, in this economy so many people blame for their woes (PS stop using your credit cards and spending twice your monthly income morons). I never said this game was perfect, not once in my post, AND just because a game is not good for ONE person doesn't mean they should be telling people to avoid it like the plague just because they don't like it. That's the problem with most gamers these days, if it doesn't work for them, than obviously it shouldn't work for anyone right? wrong. Let people make their own educated, unbiased choice. Gamers these days expect games to be something....miraculous....life altering.....life DEFINING! In my eyes, that's sad, really sad. In the end STO is fun, and that's all it needs to be, I don't play mmo's because I expect this one game to fullfill my gaming needs for 12+ months, I play it because its fun, and when it starts to not be fun, I stop playing. Stop expecting these games ot be works of art a la piccaso and you wont be so fricken dissapointed.
PS and if you were expecting a free open world sandbox mmo from STO, I ROFL. Companies like Cryptic are out there to make money and if there is a SURE FIRE way NOT to make money, its to release a sandbox MMO. As nice as they are, and I do enjoy them, Im playing Fallen Earth right now while I play STO, they don't make money, period.
This IS ALL that needs to be said!
Way to judge for yourself, hey im heading over the edge of the bridge here, care to come with me? pure lemming...
This thread has negative and positive posts and we can assume that he read both. So its clear that he had to made a decision for himself.
It wouldn't surprise me if being rushed out the door is Atari's doing.
I play DDO, made by Turbine, and Atari was their publisher too. Atari made them push the game out 6 months too early when it still had a ways to go, and then Atari didn't even do any of their publishing/advertising responsibility and left Turbine to fend for themselves (which they've done pretty well for themselves being left on their own).
Seeing as how both Champions Online and STO are also published by Atari, it seems to me that they may simply be carrying on their tradition of making the developers release the game early, grab their money and run, leaving the developing company holding the bag.
Added to that is the fact that Atari is currently being sued by both Turbine AND Hasbro for shady business practices and it's entirely possible Atari wanted the game out fast for some quick money before they got hit too hard by the lawsuits.
Ill be waiting till the free trial to check it out. To many statements by various beta and closed beta people, lead me to believe this is a relatively shallow game, similar to COH/COV but in the star trek universe. I am sure many people will enjoy it, just not the game for me these days, after years of MMO playing.
I'd definitely say if you are not a die hard star trek fan, you should wait and see on this game. There are currently too many design issues, such as load screens every time you use a turbolift (hint: 3-4 times per trip to station npcs), all space weapons appearing to have the same range (10km), and an over reliance on existing mmo conventions (as far as I'm told, a phaser has two settings: stunkill and a button; so why do I have to be level 20 to use one?).
From my exposure with the game so far, it appears to be a combination of the economy of City of Heroes, the land battles of Pirates of the Burning Sea, and a toned down version of the Champions Online character creator.
I agree with alot of what your saying, people get way to worked up, they start believing the marketing hype. But I disagree when you said Sand Boxes cant work. I truelly believe a sandbox done right and is a working model, which is truely hard to do, economys in games like that are very hard to manage. Just look at EVE thiers alot I hate about EVE's economy.
But look at SWG 2003 it had 300k subs at 15$ per for 12 months that is 54million. SWG had a population until they destroyed the sandbox. From 2003 to 2006 they took in 207 million, that is $207,000,000 not including box sales. Now look at what happens when you take away a system that alot of people liked. 2007 the subs dropped to 100k and have been hovering around thier since. It still has made about 54 million since the NGE. But if they kept it as a sandbox they could be looking at 162 million. Turns out more people wanted to be Uncle Owen.
Today I did an informal poll about STO on the gaming alias at work, and the results were nothing short of stunning.
26 people (including myself) either played beta or spent time with a friend or spouse playing and all but 2 decided they are not going to buy at/before launch and/or canceled preorders. The other two were undecided.
The funny thing is that in this crowd, there were past and present players of most MMOs you'd heard of and almost all had the same criticisms or feelings. A few quotes from the mail chain:
"This is it?!?"
"Combat and....?"
"Not much in the way of crafting, is there?"
"Ground missions seem underpolished"
"No Z axis? Freespace had a Z axis."
"Seems like Champions in Space"
"Where's the rest of it?"
"Glad I didn't pre-order / Just got online and canceled the pre-order"
"Cryptic strikes (out) again."
And a whole lot of colorful comments on what STO is and what it can do with itself, what Cryptic can go do to themselves, and what Cryptic can do with STO and places they should put it.
The universal feeling was at least we got to discover how bad this thing was and not buy another coaster. By my count, that is more than $1k Cryptic will not be getting from my crowd.
Best Comment: "Anyone that buys STO, after reading this email thread, deserves what they get."
If the combat is good, then I could see buying and playing STO if it had no subscription fee. Seems very similar in a number of ways to Guild Wars (save STO has fleet battles, but that's a very small part of the content) and I wouldn't pay a monthly fee for that. Well, maybe I'd want it a bit more polished...I don't know. That said, I don't have access to beta atm and I'm not sure how good the combat actually is. There's some mixed reports (though less mixed than other things, generally positive), but lasting combat fun is something you can't easily call in the initial week of playing the game.
Your point is? Besides I know 24 people who hate mmo's in general does that mean much? Nope not in the overall scheme of things. Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't? Are they looking to reinforce their own opinion? What would the purpose of that be? There's no need to feel your opinion needs backing, it's yours embrace it and move on.
Sorry I'm not singling you out in anyway, just making a broad stroke on all posts like this. People like to make up their own mind for the most part, unless they're incapable of doing such of course. No need to warn outside of leaving a single comment on your given gripe in an appropriate thread.
I've disliked most MMO's since I gave up on galaxies, and not once have I felt the need to tell all about it. Some games just aren't for me, but I decided that for myself, again just as most people do.
Maybe it's peer pressure? Trying to pressure your peers into a boycott or something along those lines? I really don't get it, with every release it gets worse and worse. The floods of pointless posts that amount to nothing more than nah nah nahnah nah, we don't like the game you made.
Sometimes I wonder if some people are simply this miserable they feel the need to bring everyone else down. WHich would make sense to focus your efforts on gaming forums dedicated to newly released games, it's a place you will find happy people.
Other times I think it's people who were burned (no pun intended), who simply can't let go and want whatever it was they feel was taken away back (SWG as an example)). Whatever the case is that creates posters of this sort, there's no arguing they're not overly cynical.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
to me it feels alot like a cross between WAR and CO. It's gonna be alot of fun in the beginning, lots of action, but very little substance. It's missing, to me, alot of things which make a mmorpg a mmorpg.Being a sci fi nut (admittedly i am a star wars lover...but i love the sci fi genre regardless) i am very disappointed in the shallowness of the game in its current state.
and yes this is JUST my opinion.
It does? Since when did you see instance nr 63 in another MMO?
This game does NOT play like a typical MMO, it is more instanced and has more loading screens than AoC. There is zero sense of community because the shere number of instances pretty much makes it so that you cant form any decent sense of community with anyone.
The whole game is like a multiplayer game with instance created for each playing ground. Much like Diablo and Starcraft (the latter is an RTS I know, but that is not the point).
My gaming blog
Wow, did you ever nail it!
http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/read/15969/Star-Trek-Online-Lifetime-Subscriptions-Announced.html
I think you called that one 24 hours in advance
Your point is? Besides I know 24 people who hate mmo's in general does that mean much? Nope not in the overall scheme of things. Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't? Are they looking to reinforce their own opinion? What would the purpose of that be? There's no need to feel your opinion needs backing, it's yours embrace it and move on.
Sorry I'm not singling you out in anyway, just making a broad stroke on all posts like this. People like to make up their own mind for the most part, unless they're incapable of doing such of course. No need to warn outside of leaving a single comment on your given gripe in an appropriate thread.
I've disliked most MMO's since I gave up on galaxies, and not once have I felt the need to tell all about it. Some games just aren't for me, but I decided that for myself, again just as most people do.
Maybe it's peer pressure? Trying to pressure your peers into a boycott or something along those lines? I really don't get it, with every release it gets worse and worse. The floods of pointless posts that amount to nothing more than nah nah nahnah nah, we don't like the game you made.
Sometimes I wonder if some people are simply this miserable they feel the need to bring everyone else down. WHich would make sense to focus your efforts on gaming forums dedicated to newly released games, it's a place you will find happy people.
Other times I think it's people who were burned (no pun intended), who simply can't let go and want whatever it was they feel was taken away back (SWG as an example)). Whatever the case is that creates posters of this sort, there's no arguing they're not overly cynical.
The point is not 24 people will not be buying STO, but 24 of of 26 experienced MMO players in one little group at one company who have tried the beta, or played the beta "with" someone, will not be buying.
As to " Why do people feel the need to tell all they do not like a game or developer, or that their friends don't?", this is a freaking game forum, where people come discuss MMOs, with the positive and negatives of current and upcoming games. Get the concept?
If I (and my group) is cynical about all the hype and fanboi BS surrounding new games, there is plenty of good reason to be. The last several major releases have ranged from good (but with no longterm sustainability) to sub par. And collectively, like many people, we are tired of buying $50 coasters.
And that is why many of we "haters" take the time to post in forums like these, to counter the uber fanbois, some of whom are undoubtedly paid shills and viral marketeers hired by the company itself or the PR firm they use. If there were no people posting alternative viewpoints, then every game released in the last 3 years is the "Bestest Game EVA!!!" or so the spin and hype would have you believe. Which is the same reason most "official" reviews are worthless these days.
Bottom line is Cryptic did STO fast, cheap and shallow, especially for the IP they are using. For some people, it will still be good enough or something new, which is also good enough. Cryptic hopes people will buy the hype and spin and sell some boxes to recoup their investment. But people are getting sick of "the same old thing" and half finished, shallow crap being sold at $50 +$15/mo.
And that is what we have here....
Well put! I could not have said it better myself.
I for one will wait and see if this game develops into something better, given the fact that currently it sounds like a shallow experience. Who knows maybe Cryptic will prove the Fanbois right...although I would not count on it.
Is anyone still playing this game? I wonder how long it will survive after beta.
Im sure some people will stick it out for one-month post launch to see if cryptic pulled any type of rabbit out of their hat.
MY point was you didn't discuss the game at all, you're post has nothing to do with the game what so ever. To me it seemed as though you're simply trying to get a rise out of people.
My point has nothing to do with people here actually discussing the game, I prefer to hear the bad and good about anything. However again what at all does your post say about the game except 20 or so people don't like it? How is that information on the game? It simply isn't informative in any way.
Now if you had said why they don't like the game and pointed out real issue that would be a totally different story. You can drop the BS that It's a "freaking game forum", we're all aware of this, did you see me make this statement toward the OP? Nope
Because he had gripes on the actual game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah, actually they reached server capacity today, so you have to be lucky to even log in because so many people are playing.
Man... there really are a lot of folks on these forums who just utterly hate one company (or a few), are hugely angry and confrontational, and seem to spend most of their time on here fanning flames. Since every major game and company has a little cabal of these folks, its making the MMO forums seem brutally negative these days. To say "well thats because 95% of MMOs DO suck!" is completely specious. This is like saying "my proof that you're a jerk and justification for calling you a jerk is that I think you're a jerk"
I realize that Cryptic gets a TON of hate, but I think CoH is hardly an example of a company not supporting a game long term. I notice that the post that cataloged all of the enhancements to CoH over the years was ignored. I suppose it's better to ignore a decent point and some evidence then to admit that maybe your extremist opinion isn't always 100% justified.
Anyway... I checked out STO and, as a huge fan of the IP, I was disappointed. It was a fun enough game in many ways, but it didnt capture the "flavor" of ST to me. I'll keep an eye on it over time, but I decided not to PO (my friend has been in beta). I think ST is a really tough IP to implement, to be honest, and while it seems like the MMO genre would be a fit, it probably isnt since the type of mechanics that would most capture the essence of ST most likely wouldnt make for a commercially viable MMO.
I think the bigger of an ST fan you are, the more you should probably wait and see. For me it was the little things... The fact that everyone is a "captain". The fact that the crew is sort of reduced to little more than an item. The fact that your vessel feels like "you" when you're playing (something I also didnt like about EVE). More than all of this though, was that the environment sort of felt like window dressing to me. It's tough to explain, so I think ST fans need to experience it first hand. Love it or hate it, I believe that WoW truly brought the Warcraft universe to life. Maybe some will argue that, but for me, WoW exceeded expectations in terms of making Azeroth "real". ST does not. It's fun, but it really does sort of feel like a skinned version of a standard Cryptic MMO. Not necessarily bad, but also not really great considering it is supposed to be ST.
NCSoft owns CoH and has for a long time. The people that made CoH work for them and left Cryptic when CoH was bought. CO is really the best example of how Cryptic handles released works atm.
Its not like CO. Never have I felt like a super hero in space.
The more I play the more i feel that heavy instancing was the way to go. Seeing 40 people in the same mission doesnt feel like going where no man has gone before. And its not as bad as other instance games due to the grouping system. I havnt played in this many pick up groups in a loooong time. And yes people talk in team chat mostly about tactics but if its a small mission and easy its silence. Plus youll travel for awhile since most missions have a few points you have to visit. You realy dont miss having a large amount of people around you. Probaly cause of the IP and theme.
They did crafting the only way plausable for the IP. How many times did you see kirk, picard or any other captains slaving away at a bench grinding away for a +4 phaser rifle. Instead you have finding reagents in missions and even in sector space. Collecting enough to get an item, some items even require other items plus regeants to get. Its like any other crafting without grinding crafting. And no gathering grind. would be silly if you had alien artifact gathering skill then biological gathering skill and so forth. Your a captain with a crew full of professionals. Not a Warlock picking flowers.
Space feels like space, I realy dont feel like traveling 30 minutes of emptyness just to do a mission. Maps feel big. Its not like ur in a small box as some like to play it out around here.
<b>It feels like a star trek game to me. </b>
I think alot of people wanted it to feel like a star trek show or movie but cryptic wasnt going to make a star trek virtual world. Everyone knew they were makeing a star trek theme park.
I have asked ingame about END GAME content, but noone replied.
So I'm asking it here: DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS END GAME LIKE IN STO?
Thank you for your replies.
I have asked ingame about END GAME content, but noone replied.
So I'm asking it here: DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS END GAME LIKE IN STO?
Thank you for your replies.
To Date none has been announced. Skip this assult on the senses and wait for something much better. It also starts with Star.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
