Elitist Veteran Know-it all Epeen gamers. The. Worst. ->.<-
You know those folks that try to remove every convienence from the game that makes it even a little bit tolerable to play, so that everything you do can be a ridiculously hollow accomplishment of surviving soul-sucking brain-dead repetitive tedium. Yeah, those folks, you might have seen a few around however they are probably on some forum somewhere crying about LFG tools, "!" icons or soloing.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
And don't talk to me about crying. It was people like you crying about how hard is was to lvl and i cant find quest x or it takes to long to kill xyz mob and it takes to long to look for a group and why oh why is it so long to get from point A to point B etc etc. Because of your crying, we have the "MMOS" we have today. Cheap, shallow knock-offs of what this genre should/could of been.
But you keep up the good fight. Maybe one day MMOs will be so easy, the game will come with another person to play the game for you. That seems like that would be your dream MMO.
There is an abuse of questing in modern MMORPGs, to the point they become tedious.
There are so many pointless quests that I don't care anymore to read anything at all, I wish there was a plain "Accept" button instead of the Quest description......... it would save me lots of time in clicking buttons.
Today Quests are just an XP Dispenser
Quests should enrich the RPG experience, they should not interfere with the game preventing you having fun (which is what happens at the moment)
Elitist Veteran Know-it all Epeen gamers. The. Worst. ->.<-
You know those folks that try to remove every convienence from the game that makes it even a little bit tolerable to play, so that everything you do can be a ridiculously hollow accomplishment of surviving soul-sucking brain-dead repetitive tedium. Yeah, those folks, you might have seen a few around however they are probably on some forum somewhere crying about LFG tools, "!" icons or soloing.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
And don't talk to me about crying. It was people like you crying about how hard is was to lvl and i cant find quest x or it takes to long to kill xyz mob and it takes to long to look for a group and why oh why is it so long to get from point A to point B etc etc. Because of your crying, we have the "MMOS" we have today. Cheap, shallow knock-offs of what this genre should/could of been.
But you keep up the good fight. Maybe one day MMOs will be so easy, the game will come with another person to play the game for you. That seems like that would be your dream MMO.
I could not agree with you more about MMOs and how people cry about how long it takes. Its come to a point if people dont get 4 to 5 instances done in an hour they hate the game yet they wonder why the game is so shallow. Its because the automated LFG tools. Now I do support a buffed up LFG tool blizzard is making that will allow you to search players looking for X content with Y iLvL. It does make it easier however it does not cut out the social interaction part of MMOs. It just makes the search less painful.
Most of the stuff that people have said they disliked can be ignored in games.
LFG/Group finder....don't use it
Fast Travel/teleportation nodes...don't use them
Mounts...don't use them
Quests....don't do them
See easy to fix.
Not really. That's like a chess player telling a checker player just to ignore the white squares. Doesn't work too well.
That's incomparable. The checker player would be at a distinct disadvantage. An MMO player ignoring these tools would not.
Ignore LFG/Group finder? They stand in town, just like the "good old days", and scream "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" until they get a group, like they want to. "Community building" and all that.
If they ignore fast travel/teleportation nodes, they just travel a little more slowly. This is the only place where they COULD suffer, getting to open world events more slowly.
Mounts- same as above.
Quests- You can PvP, Dungeon, open world events if they are available, etc. There are usually options to this. You may, in fact, level more quickly ignoring these in some games.
Elitist Veteran Know-it all Epeen gamers. The. Worst. ->.<-
You know those folks that try to remove every convienence from the game that makes it even a little bit tolerable to play, so that everything you do can be a ridiculously hollow accomplishment of surviving soul-sucking brain-dead repetitive tedium. Yeah, those folks, you might have seen a few around however they are probably on some forum somewhere crying about LFG tools, "!" icons or soloing.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
Exactly! Convenience sucks! Take the Dungeon Finders games offer- If you don't find standing around in a city screaming "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" for hours on end, until all your free time is used up and you didn't actually get to run the dungeon you intended to, completely fun and enthralling then obviously the flaw is with you! The convenience of actually running the dungeon you want to in a timely fashion is for ENTITLED WHINERS!!!!ONE!!
There is an abuse of questing in modern MMORPGs, to the point they become tedious.
There are so many pointless quests that I don't care anymore to read anything at all, I wish there was a plain "Accept" button instead of the Quest description......... it would save me lots of time in clicking buttons.
Today Quests are just an XP Dispenser
Quests should enrich the RPG experience, they should not interfere with the game preventing you having fun (which is what happens at the moment)
Quests should be Epic.......not trivial
The core problem with quest is they were designed so people can solo to max level. So you get Billions of quest. Now That does not mean like you said quest dont have a place they do. Example is the quest to go into Deadmines to kill VC because he is some epic BADASS. Kewl I am on board with that. The problem is Quest has driven MMOs more to the solo side vs a reason to play with people.
I can't stand weapon and equipment restrictions. If I want to be a warrior in cloth robes so be it. If I want to be a mage in full plate armor, so be it.
A warrior in cloth is called a monk.
And a mage in plate, a death knight, or a paladin.
If you play WoW.
You know what I mean by these restrictions - don't be a smart ass. If I am playing a hunter, and want to dual wield axes rather than a bow I cannot. I have to play a warrior. The character creation needs to be less formulated and more dependent on the players control.
As a warrior, a master of arms I should be able to wield any weapon I can find and be at least somewhat proficient with it. Wildstar for example. A warrior can wield a greatsword. Fabulous? In GW2 the warrior can wield axes, bastard swords, bows, rifles, hammers and greatswords.
The freedom to build your character is what I am getting at - less restrictions to building your character how you would like. All these modern games have long abandoned the DnD rule sets that put them in place to begin with, yet cling on to the most annoying rules.
Also, side note. I hate it when games don't use quivers, and bow users shoot invisible magical arrows.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Most of the stuff that people have said they disliked can be ignored in games.
LFG/Group finder....don't use it
Fast Travel/teleportation nodes...don't use them
Mounts...don't use them
Quests....don't do them
See easy to fix.
Not really. That's like a chess player telling a checker player just to ignore the white squares. Doesn't work too well.
That's incomparable. The checker player would be at a distinct disadvantage. An MMO player ignoring these tools would not.
Ignore LFG/Group finder? They stand in town, just like the "good old days", and scream "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" until they get a group, like they want to. "Community building" and all that.
If they ignore fast travel/teleportation nodes, they just travel a little more slowly. This is the only place where they COULD suffer, getting to open world events more slowly.
Mounts- same as above.
Quests- You can PvP, Dungeon, open world events if they are available, etc. There are usually options to this. You may, in fact, level more quickly ignoring these in some games.
I never sat in town spamming LF1M FOR INSTANCE X. Why? I made friends in the game naturally through leveling, brought friends into WOW from other games, and joined a guild. Yea I might have spammed the zone I was in for a person but thats about a dozen times over 4 years with Classic and BC WOW. I always had over 100 friends on my friends list and kept adding so I could ask them if I needed people. The people that spam LF1M for Instance in a city or LFG more than a handful of times in a month were people who LACKED social skills and/or were shitty players. If a mage was known for breaking sheep in Classic and BC they had a hard time finding a group. That was their fault not the lack of a TOOL. If a person refused to try to make friends with people that they just ran will that is their lack of social skills.
Today I read something interesting on the ArcheAge forums about how players want a PVE server so they can stay away from PVP just so they didnt have to socialize with other players or become better players themselves. They want to go from point A through a PVP zone to Point B without getting attacked because they dont want to be apart of an MMO. This is why the genera has turned to crap because these people DO NOT BELONG IN AN MMO and want all the benefits of being in an MMO without taking part in the core part of the genera. Thats it, they want it handed to them without effort period.
So no Automated LFD tools are not needed to forum groups because you either lack skills to play the game or lack skills to socialize.
Elitist Veteran Know-it all Epeen gamers. The. Worst. ->.<-
You know those folks that try to remove every convienence from the game that makes it even a little bit tolerable to play, so that everything you do can be a ridiculously hollow accomplishment of surviving soul-sucking brain-dead repetitive tedium. Yeah, those folks, you might have seen a few around however they are probably on some forum somewhere crying about LFG tools, "!" icons or soloing.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
And don't talk to me about crying. It was people like you crying about how hard is was to lvl and i cant find quest x or it takes to long to kill xyz mob and it takes to long to look for a group and why oh why is it so long to get from point A to point B etc etc. Because of your crying, we have the "MMOS" we have today. Cheap, shallow knock-offs of what this genre should/could of been.
But you keep up the good fight. Maybe one day MMOs will be so easy, the game will come with another person to play the game for you. That seems like that would be your dream MMO.
I could not agree with you more about MMOs and how people cry about how long it takes. Its come to a point if people dont get 4 to 5 instances done in an hour they hate the game yet they wonder why the game is so shallow. Its because the automated LFG tools. Now I do support a buffed up LFG tool blizzard is making that will allow you to search players looking for X content with Y iLvL. It does make it easier however it does not cut out the social interaction part of MMOs. It just makes the search less painful.
I don't think anyone would complain about it "taking so long" if they were having fun. Putting in long grinds for the sake of grind isn't good game development. It worked in older games because that's what was there, and the novelty of the MMO was still fresh. In the end it's a measure to keep people playing as long as they can keep people around. This was one of the early ways to keep players subscribed, make the game about gaining levels, then take away their progress toward those levels. Not that replacing levels with gear is any better, which is what they do today in many games.
For many people games should first and foremost be about having fun, long grinds detract from that fun for many, it's not hard to understand that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Elitist Veteran Know-it all Epeen gamers. The. Worst. ->.<-
You know those folks that try to remove every convienence from the game that makes it even a little bit tolerable to play, so that everything you do can be a ridiculously hollow accomplishment of surviving soul-sucking brain-dead repetitive tedium. Yeah, those folks, you might have seen a few around however they are probably on some forum somewhere crying about LFG tools, "!" icons or soloing.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
Exactly! Convenience sucks! Take the Dungeon Finders games offer- If you don't find standing around in a city screaming "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" for hours on end, until all your free time is used up and you didn't actually get to run the dungeon you intended to, completely fun and enthralling then obviously the flaw is with you! The convenience of actually running the dungeon you want to in a timely fashion is for ENTITLED WHINERS!!!!ONE!!
INSTANCES WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO BE RUN AT THE DROP OF A HAT. But players like you wouldnt understand that. You think you are so important because you cannot find friends to run your needed instance. /CRY ENDLESSLY Thats you. Its not your fault you could not create a social network in game of friends who would run instances with you when you wanted or say hey tomorrow can we run SM at 8pm ET like TRUE MMO gamers did. No you are some special snow flake who needs to run it when you feel like it and WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT THE MMO GENERA as long as you get your run when you want in some easy format. You sir are the reason MMOs are in the shit hole they are now. Because you cannot be bothered to make friends or play to a certain level. PERIOD.
Elitist Veteran Know-it all Epeen gamers. The. Worst. ->.<-
You know those folks that try to remove every convienence from the game that makes it even a little bit tolerable to play, so that everything you do can be a ridiculously hollow accomplishment of surviving soul-sucking brain-dead repetitive tedium. Yeah, those folks, you might have seen a few around however they are probably on some forum somewhere crying about LFG tools, "!" icons or soloing.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
And don't talk to me about crying. It was people like you crying about how hard is was to lvl and i cant find quest x or it takes to long to kill xyz mob and it takes to long to look for a group and why oh why is it so long to get from point A to point B etc etc. Because of your crying, we have the "MMOS" we have today. Cheap, shallow knock-offs of what this genre should/could of been.
But you keep up the good fight. Maybe one day MMOs will be so easy, the game will come with another person to play the game for you. That seems like that would be your dream MMO.
I could not agree with you more about MMOs and how people cry about how long it takes. Its come to a point if people dont get 4 to 5 instances done in an hour they hate the game yet they wonder why the game is so shallow. Its because the automated LFG tools. Now I do support a buffed up LFG tool blizzard is making that will allow you to search players looking for X content with Y iLvL. It does make it easier however it does not cut out the social interaction part of MMOs. It just makes the search less painful.
I don't think anyone would complain about it "taking so long" if they were having fun. Putting in long grinds for the sake of grind isn't good game development. It worked in older games because that's what was there, and the novelty of the MMO was still fresh. In the end it's a measure to keep people playing as long as they can keep people around. This was one of the early ways to keep players subscribed, make the game about gaining levels, then take away their progress toward those levels. Not that replacing levels with gear is any better, which is what they do today in many games.
For many people games should first and foremost be about having fun, long grinds detract from that fun for many, it's not hard to understand that.
Your Playing an MMO that is meant to be played for Months to years not in hours and DAYS. Its not a Grind. MMOS were never designed so you can accomplish things in a few hours or day it was designed to take you weeks if not a month or more to do things. If you want a game you can finish in 30 hours go play a single player game. I did the Epic Warrior chest quest during Classic. I took me 4 weeks to do because of schedules and what not so I could do the instances with friends. O well I was in the game to play the game over the course of months or years. Not to get geared in 1 week and be O LOOK I AM EPICED OUT NOW WHAT? Like many of you players do today. You get to a point of being geared and man there is nothing to do. Why because you want FAST EASY WATERED DOWN content. Not ok this will take me some time to do COOL. No its CRY CRY CRY because you cannot do it solo in 30 minutes.
I don't think anyone would complain about it "taking so long" if they were having fun. Putting in long grinds for the sake of grind isn't good game development. It worked in older games because that's what was there, and the novelty of the MMO was still fresh. In the end it's a measure to keep people playing as long as they can keep people around. This was one of the early ways to keep players subscribed, make the game about gaining levels, then take away their progress toward those levels. Not that replacing levels with gear is any better, which is what they do today in many games.
For many people games should first and foremost be about having fun, long grinds detract from that fun for many, it's not hard to understand that.
Your Playing an MMO that is meant to be played for Months to years not in hours and DAYS. Its not a Grind. MMOS were never designed so you can accomplish things in a few hours or day it was designed to take you weeks if not a month or more to do things. If you want a game you can finish in 30 hours go play a single player game. I did the Epic Warrior chest quest during Classic. I took me 4 weeks to do because of schedules and what not so I could do the instances with friends. O well I was in the game to play the game over the course of months or years. Not to get geared in 1 week and be O LOOK I AM EPICED OUT NOW WHAT? Like many of you players do today. You get to a point of being geared and man there is nothing to do. Why because you want FAST EASY WATERED DOWN content. Not ok this will take me some time to do COOL. No its CRY CRY CRY because you cannot do it solo in 30 minutes.
You can scream at me all you want. I don't mind that, what I do mind is missing the point completely. It's not up to you what feels like grind to another person. Again as I said before, if they were having fun, they wouldn't care how long it takes. That's what grind means in this sense, it feels like a chore rather than something fun to do to these people. Secondly stop referring to me, and what I want, I said nothing of what I want or feel is a grind or not.
SWG was not designed to take months to finish up a build, it was rather easy to spend those 250 skill points in a week or less. The substance of the game came in the form of community play, not carrots like levels or prizes. That's good MMO development IMO.
EQ was something else entirely, it's entire business plan was built around that journey through character development, the level is the prize. Chasing the dragon so to speak, do you really think this had nothing to do with their monetary goals?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your Playing an MMO that is meant to be played for Months to years not in hours and DAYS. Its not a Grind. MMOS were never designed so you can accomplish things in a few hours or day it was designed to take you weeks if not a month or more to do things. If you want a game you can finish in 30 hours go play a single player game. I did the Epic Warrior chest quest during Classic. I took me 4 weeks to do because of schedules and what not so I could do the instances with friends. O well I was in the game to play the game over the course of months or years. Not to get geared in 1 week and be O LOOK I AM EPICED OUT NOW WHAT? Like many of you players do today. You get to a point of being geared and man there is nothing to do. Why because you want FAST EASY WATERED DOWN content. Not ok this will take me some time to do COOL. No its CRY CRY CRY because you cannot do it solo in 30 minutes.
No actually its you who is trying to play an MMO that you want to consume months if not years of your life, but really they only have and only ever have had content enough to support maybe a month or two. The early MMOs were an aberation for the Genre, not the Gold standard. The Genre rightfully evolved away from those types of time commitments. It's more likely you than the casual that needs to find a new Genre.
Personally I love playing in a new world every 3 months. LOVE IT. I don't feel this overarching need to devote my life to ONE particular game that consumes 16 hours a day of my life. Let it go. What was heralded as a industtry changing occurance, this idea that we play a single game or two for years on end, was a gross miscalculation for the early MMOs and the industry. Accept that you are traveler of worlds not a fully fledged resident of any single one and have fun. Achievements in these games are and always will be hollow to the core. It's a game, just have fun.
I agree with lots of people here and have to say quest hubs, especially when it's one of the only viable means of progressing quickly. They lead you around, typically are filled with mudane tasks that aren't challenging in the slightest, and I just find it flat out boring.
Fortunately it's becoming less a modern feature and more an outdated feature although even games that try to break the mold aren't willing to go all the way with it. Every game that has dynamic/public questing has traditional questing including GW2 (renown hearts). Hoping games like EQ Next finally break away from it entirely.
Quest Hubs and beyond that quests for XP gain for advancement. Originally quests were created as standalone just to give out bits of extra xps and items and such. To make things more efficient quest hubs were created and it just went downhill from there. This has ruined all modern day(2013+) MMO's for me and I no longer play any of them for this primary reason. Its a shame because I would likely be willing to spend between $20 and $40 a month on gaming otherwise.
LFG/LFR tools. If you don't have community, all you're left with to keep people is the strength of your content. These tools kill server communities for the sake of convenience. They also shrink the world, turning capitol cities into lobbies and eliminating spontaneous pvp action at dungeon entrances on pvp servers.
The worst common feature is the dumbing down of virtually every MMO that is released. Instead of patching in more interesting stuff, new mobs or quests with a challenge, the devs always think making it easier will pull the punters in. For a short time it may work, in the longer term people get bored. Risk and reward, if there is no risk - the reward is not worth it. AKA WoW, Rift and others. Currently the ploy is being deployed by Zenimax.
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
Exactly! Convenience sucks! Take the Dungeon Finders games offer- If you don't find standing around in a city screaming "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" for hours on end, until all your free time is used up and you didn't actually get to run the dungeon you intended to, completely fun and enthralling then obviously the flaw is with you! The convenience of actually running the dungeon you want to in a timely fashion is for ENTITLED WHINERS!!!!ONE!!
INSTANCES WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO BE RUN AT THE DROP OF A HAT. But players like you wouldnt understand that. You think you are so important because you cannot find friends to run your needed instance. /CRY ENDLESSLY Thats you. Its not your fault you could not create a social network in game of friends who would run instances with you when you wanted or say hey tomorrow can we run SM at 8pm ET like TRUE MMO gamers did. No you are some special snow flake who needs to run it when you feel like it and WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT THE MMO GENERA as long as you get your run when you want in some easy format. You sir are the reason MMOs are in the shit hole they are now. Because you cannot be bothered to make friends or play to a certain level. PERIOD.
How dare those people who have lives outside of MMOs want to have a feature that makes their ability to play the game a little more feasible?! How dare those monsters who hold full time jobs, have spouses and RL friends all want to be able to log in at variable times, run a few dungeons and generally enjoy the game they want to. Those SCOUNDRELS! THOSE MONSTERS! They are ruining the MMO generation!
-Signed,
Guy who has played MMOs for 15 years and, unlike you apparently, goes outside from time to time
Comments
First off, If you need convenience just to tolerate playing a game YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING THAT GAME!!!!! And second, Its a game. ALL accomplishments are in a sense hollow. If you don't enjoy it then GTFO of mmos and go back to Mario Cart.
And don't talk to me about crying. It was people like you crying about how hard is was to lvl and i cant find quest x or it takes to long to kill xyz mob and it takes to long to look for a group and why oh why is it so long to get from point A to point B etc etc. Because of your crying, we have the "MMOS" we have today. Cheap, shallow knock-offs of what this genre should/could of been.
But you keep up the good fight. Maybe one day MMOs will be so easy, the game will come with another person to play the game for you. That seems like that would be your dream MMO.
Quest Hubs - Quest Leveling
There is an abuse of questing in modern MMORPGs, to the point they become tedious.
There are so many pointless quests that I don't care anymore to read anything at all, I wish there was a plain "Accept" button instead of the Quest description......... it would save me lots of time in clicking buttons.
Today Quests are just an XP Dispenser
Quests should enrich the RPG experience, they should not interfere with the game preventing you having fun (which is what happens at the moment)
Quests should be Epic.......not trivial
I could not agree with you more about MMOs and how people cry about how long it takes. Its come to a point if people dont get 4 to 5 instances done in an hour they hate the game yet they wonder why the game is so shallow. Its because the automated LFG tools. Now I do support a buffed up LFG tool blizzard is making that will allow you to search players looking for X content with Y iLvL. It does make it easier however it does not cut out the social interaction part of MMOs. It just makes the search less painful.
That's incomparable. The checker player would be at a distinct disadvantage. An MMO player ignoring these tools would not.
Ignore LFG/Group finder? They stand in town, just like the "good old days", and scream "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" until they get a group, like they want to. "Community building" and all that.
If they ignore fast travel/teleportation nodes, they just travel a little more slowly. This is the only place where they COULD suffer, getting to open world events more slowly.
Mounts- same as above.
Quests- You can PvP, Dungeon, open world events if they are available, etc. There are usually options to this. You may, in fact, level more quickly ignoring these in some games.
To summarize: Every feature is the worst.
Exactly! Convenience sucks! Take the Dungeon Finders games offer- If you don't find standing around in a city screaming "LFG LFG LFG" or "LFM LFM LFM" for hours on end, until all your free time is used up and you didn't actually get to run the dungeon you intended to, completely fun and enthralling then obviously the flaw is with you! The convenience of actually running the dungeon you want to in a timely fashion is for ENTITLED WHINERS!!!!ONE!!
The core problem with quest is they were designed so people can solo to max level. So you get Billions of quest. Now That does not mean like you said quest dont have a place they do. Example is the quest to go into Deadmines to kill VC because he is some epic BADASS. Kewl I am on board with that. The problem is Quest has driven MMOs more to the solo side vs a reason to play with people.
If you play WoW.
You know what I mean by these restrictions - don't be a smart ass. If I am playing a hunter, and want to dual wield axes rather than a bow I cannot. I have to play a warrior. The character creation needs to be less formulated and more dependent on the players control.
As a warrior, a master of arms I should be able to wield any weapon I can find and be at least somewhat proficient with it. Wildstar for example. A warrior can wield a greatsword. Fabulous? In GW2 the warrior can wield axes, bastard swords, bows, rifles, hammers and greatswords.
The freedom to build your character is what I am getting at - less restrictions to building your character how you would like. All these modern games have long abandoned the DnD rule sets that put them in place to begin with, yet cling on to the most annoying rules.
Also, side note. I hate it when games don't use quivers, and bow users shoot invisible magical arrows.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
I never sat in town spamming LF1M FOR INSTANCE X. Why? I made friends in the game naturally through leveling, brought friends into WOW from other games, and joined a guild. Yea I might have spammed the zone I was in for a person but thats about a dozen times over 4 years with Classic and BC WOW. I always had over 100 friends on my friends list and kept adding so I could ask them if I needed people. The people that spam LF1M for Instance in a city or LFG more than a handful of times in a month were people who LACKED social skills and/or were shitty players. If a mage was known for breaking sheep in Classic and BC they had a hard time finding a group. That was their fault not the lack of a TOOL. If a person refused to try to make friends with people that they just ran will that is their lack of social skills.
Today I read something interesting on the ArcheAge forums about how players want a PVE server so they can stay away from PVP just so they didnt have to socialize with other players or become better players themselves. They want to go from point A through a PVP zone to Point B without getting attacked because they dont want to be apart of an MMO. This is why the genera has turned to crap because these people DO NOT BELONG IN AN MMO and want all the benefits of being in an MMO without taking part in the core part of the genera. Thats it, they want it handed to them without effort period.
So no Automated LFD tools are not needed to forum groups because you either lack skills to play the game or lack skills to socialize.
I don't think anyone would complain about it "taking so long" if they were having fun. Putting in long grinds for the sake of grind isn't good game development. It worked in older games because that's what was there, and the novelty of the MMO was still fresh. In the end it's a measure to keep people playing as long as they can keep people around. This was one of the early ways to keep players subscribed, make the game about gaining levels, then take away their progress toward those levels. Not that replacing levels with gear is any better, which is what they do today in many games.
For many people games should first and foremost be about having fun, long grinds detract from that fun for many, it's not hard to understand that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
INSTANCES WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO BE RUN AT THE DROP OF A HAT. But players like you wouldnt understand that. You think you are so important because you cannot find friends to run your needed instance. /CRY ENDLESSLY Thats you. Its not your fault you could not create a social network in game of friends who would run instances with you when you wanted or say hey tomorrow can we run SM at 8pm ET like TRUE MMO gamers did. No you are some special snow flake who needs to run it when you feel like it and WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT THE MMO GENERA as long as you get your run when you want in some easy format. You sir are the reason MMOs are in the shit hole they are now. Because you cannot be bothered to make friends or play to a certain level. PERIOD.
Your Playing an MMO that is meant to be played for Months to years not in hours and DAYS. Its not a Grind. MMOS were never designed so you can accomplish things in a few hours or day it was designed to take you weeks if not a month or more to do things. If you want a game you can finish in 30 hours go play a single player game. I did the Epic Warrior chest quest during Classic. I took me 4 weeks to do because of schedules and what not so I could do the instances with friends. O well I was in the game to play the game over the course of months or years. Not to get geared in 1 week and be O LOOK I AM EPICED OUT NOW WHAT? Like many of you players do today. You get to a point of being geared and man there is nothing to do. Why because you want FAST EASY WATERED DOWN content. Not ok this will take me some time to do COOL. No its CRY CRY CRY because you cannot do it solo in 30 minutes.
You can scream at me all you want. I don't mind that, what I do mind is missing the point completely. It's not up to you what feels like grind to another person. Again as I said before, if they were having fun, they wouldn't care how long it takes. That's what grind means in this sense, it feels like a chore rather than something fun to do to these people. Secondly stop referring to me, and what I want, I said nothing of what I want or feel is a grind or not.
SWG was not designed to take months to finish up a build, it was rather easy to spend those 250 skill points in a week or less. The substance of the game came in the form of community play, not carrots like levels or prizes. That's good MMO development IMO.
EQ was something else entirely, it's entire business plan was built around that journey through character development, the level is the prize. Chasing the dragon so to speak, do you really think this had nothing to do with their monetary goals?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No actually its you who is trying to play an MMO that you want to consume months if not years of your life, but really they only have and only ever have had content enough to support maybe a month or two. The early MMOs were an aberation for the Genre, not the Gold standard. The Genre rightfully evolved away from those types of time commitments. It's more likely you than the casual that needs to find a new Genre.
Personally I love playing in a new world every 3 months. LOVE IT. I don't feel this overarching need to devote my life to ONE particular game that consumes 16 hours a day of my life. Let it go. What was heralded as a industtry changing occurance, this idea that we play a single game or two for years on end, was a gross miscalculation for the early MMOs and the industry. Accept that you are traveler of worlds not a fully fledged resident of any single one and have fun. Achievements in these games are and always will be hollow to the core. It's a game, just have fun.
I agree with lots of people here and have to say quest hubs, especially when it's one of the only viable means of progressing quickly. They lead you around, typically are filled with mudane tasks that aren't challenging in the slightest, and I just find it flat out boring.
Fortunately it's becoming less a modern feature and more an outdated feature although even games that try to break the mold aren't willing to go all the way with it. Every game that has dynamic/public questing has traditional questing including GW2 (renown hearts). Hoping games like EQ Next finally break away from it entirely.
1. Self Entitled People.
2. Immature Brats.
3. Keyboard Thugs.
4. Mean People.
There are more "worst common features" I'm sure.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
and 5. Elitists.
Instant completion of tasks.
-Instant Travel
-Group Finder
-Quest Pointer
Anything that really takes away the experience of a realistic world experience.
These features do come in handy when just logging in and playing but kind of
removes the experience of working towards something making the reward not
rewarding.
Kind of like the Matrix they tried creating a perfect world but failed because there
wasn't any point in living in a perfect world.
What makes modern MMO's fail for me is how they are aiming their content to more casual players, making the game easy mode and very fast paced.
Reaching the max level and 'end-game' in a matter of days or weeks isn't an MMO, its a single player game trying to be an MMO and failing.
How dare those people who have lives outside of MMOs want to have a feature that makes their ability to play the game a little more feasible?! How dare those monsters who hold full time jobs, have spouses and RL friends all want to be able to log in at variable times, run a few dungeons and generally enjoy the game they want to. Those SCOUNDRELS! THOSE MONSTERS! They are ruining the MMO generation!
-Signed,
Guy who has played MMOs for 15 years and, unlike you apparently, goes outside from time to time