Crossing this one off the list of games to try. I won't touch a game with any form of microtransactions, Period. If it's "the future" of the genre, than it is a future I won't be a part of.
Seems to be the trend this year does it not? It is also a future that I will no longer be pa part of either. I am willing to pay $20.00 a month for sub fee's so raise them and I will gladly pay them for a game worth playing. However, I refuse to play these F2P games or any cash shop or micro transaction game period. The excuse is they can't raise the sub fee because games like WOW set a standard at $15.00 but we will milk the utters out of you with micro's. Screw you and your fucking game as it's another bumped off my list.
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Crossing this one off the list of games to try. I won't touch a game with any form of microtransactions, Period. If it's "the future" of the genre, than it is a future I won't be a part of.
Seems to be the trend this year does it not? It is also a future that I will no longer be pa part of either. I am willing to pay $20.00 a month for sub fee's so raise them and I will gladly pay them for a game worth playing. However, I refuse to play these F2P games or any cash shop or micro transaction game period. The excuse is they can't raise the sub fee because games like WOW set a standard at $15.00 but we will milk the utters out of you with micro's. Screw you and your fucking game as it's another bumped off my list.
Definitely. The funny thing is, there isn't even a game out there worth my $15 a month at the moment, and they want to milk more money out of their customers for the same amount of content? No thanks.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
We've finally evolved .... Now games are just like RL, more money = cooler stuff. I refuse to play a game that has a monthly AND MT's regardless of the significance it may or may not add to gameplay. F2P games are looking better and better every day ........
"Evolve"? Customers dictate what they want to consume, the key is to not support this kind of commercial game, especially when it crosses a line to provide an item mall while also being a P2P game.
If you disagree with this kind of commercial model, then do not play it. It's not like this will be the only MMO to be released soon. And in a market with many MMOs, only few will survive "above average".
I won't be playing it. I don't like and will not support RMT or MT business models in any game. Just as well. I wasn't too keen about the whole console style game play anyway.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
This is a deal-breaker for me. Count me in the group that despises even the thought of MT in a subscription game.
Hope you plan on finding a new hobby, in the future almost all games will contain some form of RMT/micro transactions.
Too true, I fully expect most if not all future monthly fee games to start offering some kind of "perks" in addition to the monthly fee in the future. Some people have more free money than free time--they won't mind.
You all might notice the advertisements all over this site for Runes of Magic--it just had to add a new server due to increasing player population. This type of MMO game is catching on. Sites like this one promote it's recognition.
I figure what will finally cement the deal is Diablo 2 (not really an MMO, but hey, neither was Guild Wars), which is rumored to have some kind of RMT to pay for the upkeep of the new Battlenet 2.0. Love Blizzard or hate it due to WOW, D2 is going to be big. You're crazy if you think otherwise. It will bring RMT to the mainstream. I'd expect other companies to follow.
If enough do it, then it becomes the norm and stops being outrageous. RMT/ micro trans/ item shops are here to stay, the genre is evolving. Not saying it's good or bad, it just is what it is.
Continue with this MMO hobby or don't, this is the internet after all . . . no one is going to miss you, assuming they even knew you existed.
I just don't understand the reasoning for microtransactions in this game other than the company wants to make more money.
Where is the benefit to the player? Removing or simply not putting something as an ingame reward and selling it for cash doesn't make the game better. It just lets people pay to not play the game which doesn't make much sense.
There's nothing wrong with a game company wanting to make more money. Not everything can be done on principal alone. But, if they can make more money off of this game then the next time a brilliant idea with limited appeal comes by them they may take a chance on it and "float" it just to have it made.
Don't forget that companies, no matter what industry, all need to make money to stick around and be successful.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales.
Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I just don't understand the reasoning for microtransactions in this game other than the company wants to make more money.
Where is the benefit to the player? Removing or simply not putting something as an ingame reward and selling it for cash doesn't make the game better. It just lets people pay to not play the game which doesn't make much sense.
There's nothing wrong with a game company wanting to make more money. Not everything can be done on principal alone. But, if they can make more money off of this game then the next time a brilliant idea with limited appeal comes by them they may take a chance on it and "float" it just to have it made.
Don't forget that companies, no matter what industry, all need to make money to stick around and be successful.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales.
Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
I find it very disturbing as well. I also find it disturbing that people are willing to pay for a game to avoid having to play it. That defeats the entire purpose of the game itself. The point is to play it, not to avoid playing it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
This is a deal-breaker for me. Count me in the group that despises even the thought of MT in a subscription game.
Hope you plan on finding a new hobby, in the future almost all games will contain some form of RMT/micro transactions.
Too true, I fully expect most if not all future monthly fee games to start offering some kind of "perks" in addition to the monthly fee in the future. Some people have more free money than free time--they won't mind.
You all might notice the advertisements all over this site for Runes of Magic--it just had to add a new server due to increasing player population. This type of MMO game is catching on. Sites like this one promote it's recognition.
I figure what will finally cement the deal is Diablo 2 (not really an MMO, but hey, neither was Guild Wars), which is rumored to have some kind of RMT to pay for the upkeep of the new Battlenet 2.0. Love Blizzard or hate it due to WOW, D2 is going to be big. You're crazy if you think otherwise. It will bring RMT to the mainstream. I'd expect other companies to follow.
If enough do it, then it becomes the norm and stops being outrageous. RMT/ micro trans/ item shops are here to stay, the genre is evolving. Not saying it's good or bad, it just is what it is.
Continue with this MMO hobby or don't, this is the internet after all . . . no one is going to miss you, assuming they even knew you existed.
This industry already has a difficult time drawing in mainstream who find it a waste of 15 bucks a month for MMOs. What gives you the idea that charging even more with RMT and MT will suddenly have wider appeal?
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
From the CO forums. http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=23349 I know everyone has questions about microtransactions – what are they, how much are they, etc. I’m sorry we didn’t post something earlier; we’re really heads down in development right now. We’re going to release a WHOLE lot of information in the very near future about not just about microtransactions, but pricing in general. That said, here’s some basic principles about microtransactions to at least answer some of your concerns: 1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.)
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game. I promise we'll read this thread, note any questions, and answer them more in depth soon. Heck, I'll try to answer the easy ones today/tomorrow/this week.
So lets break that down
1) It allows us to make more money, which means we can hire more staff... of course any extra staff we might hire is completely counteracted by the fact that a significant portion of development time goes to the item mall.
2) What we mean by "mostly" is that most of the crap in the item mall with be junk that nobody cares about. But there will be a few items that will almost guarantee players a significant edge, either in leveling time or easy access power.
3) Any micro-transaction that has a game affect will take such a ridiculous amount of time and effort to earn in the real game you'll be totally discouraged from doing anything other than forking over your cash.
I went from being mildly interested in the game with the intention to definitely try it, to wanting absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think this is a quite obvious attempt at cashing in on a playertype that , supposedly, is becoming more and more the norm: The adult casual working person, who nonetheless has major issues with accepting that his limited playtime, in combination with RL responsibilities or just plain disinterest, is keeping him from competing in the top tier.
The people who complain that the best items are usually gained by teamwork and/or substantial effort, the people who begrudge those with more time and/or skill their advantage, according to many MMORPG forums that audience is growing rapidly.
For players with this onlook, with little time but big envy, a combination of monthly fee and MT is good. A monthly fee immediately puts a game into a situation where botting, macroing and hordes of immature gamehoppers are relatively rare. It makes a game more "important" by being more exclusive.
Then, by giving you MT through which you can "catch up" or even "overtake" those pesky better/longer playing guys and gals, you can now buy yourself peace of mind and satisfy your envy and desire for power in a game that "matters".
Personally, I would never play a game that charges a full monthly sub and still has MTs. I dont know anyone in my circle of gaming friends who ever considered paying a single cent in a cash shop. But I have often witnessed the above-described behaviour by players, who are simply unhappy with the way many current "important" MMORPGs dont allow to transfer RL money into the game, when they dont have the time nor inclination to actually play the game as is intended.
I wouldnt actually be surprised if this approach has some success. Envy is a powerful emotion for many who feel left behind, but have an ego which chafes at that all the time.
For me and many others, this crosses a line. And it raises questions about the decision makers for this game. The people who really want MTs don't want subscriptions. Many who prefer subscriptions would rather chew their own foot off than play a game with MTs. This model will have limited appeal.
Frankly I would say they want both. What could be better for them other than a normal subscription fee plus allowing people to pay them extra money on top of that... The assumption has always been that MT game would be F2P, but honestly what company would not want to have their cake and eat it too? Lets face it these guys are in this for the money... And the only thing stopping them from doing both is the fear that players wouldn't buy their game, but once someone does it a sub/mt setup once it opens up the option to everyone else and as soon as anyone has any success with it the practice will be everywhere.
I'm not saying CO will do this and I got no inside information, but I think we could see someone try it soon.
You know what would be interesting, though? If a company trying this model would set up half their servers as pure monthly-fee servers, and the other half as monthly fee + cash shop.
See which ones are more popular. Frankly, I am absolutely sure this little experiment would go VASTLY in favor of the non-cash-shop servers for a lot of reasons, but it would be interesting nonetheless to try it.
The primary problem of a cash shop is that it only works in a surrounding where people want to spend. And people will not want to spend for advantages on empty, disrespected and ignored servers. So, you basically have to force your playerbase onto MT-enabled servers in order to facilitate an environment where those few wanting to spend more are willing to do so. The moment you allow people to decide they dont want to play with a cash shop, and dont want to be overtaken, your cash shop fails.
I think this is a quite obvious attempt at cashing in on a playertype that , supposedly, is becoming more and more the norm: The adult casual working person, who nonetheless has major issues with accepting that his limited playtime, in combination with RL responsibilities or just plain disinterest, is keeping him from competing in the top tier. The people who complain that the best items are usually gained by teamwork and/or substantial effort, the people who begrudge those with more time and/or skill their advantage, according to many MMORPG forums that audience is growing rapidly. For players with this onlook, with little time but big envy, a combination of monthly fee and MT is good. A monthly fee immediately puts a game into a situation where botting, macroing and hordes of immature gamehoppers are relatively rare. It makes a game more "important" by being more exclusive. Then, by giving you MT through which you can "catch up" or even "overtake" those pesky better/longer playing guys and gals, you can now buy yourself peace of mind and satisfy your envy and desire for power in a game that "matters". Personally, I would never play a game that charges a full monthly sub and still has MTs. I dont know anyone in my circle of gaming friends who ever considered paying a single cent in a cash shop. But I have often witnessed the above-described behaviour by players, who are simply unhappy with the way many current "important" MMORPGs dont allow to transfer RL money into the game, when they dont have the time nor inclination to actually play the game as is intended. I wouldnt actually be surprised if this approach has some success. Envy is a powerful emotion for many who feel left behind, but have an ego which chafes at that all the time.
I don't disagree, but I also feel that the players who would be envied are generally the ones who are staunchly against MTs. So by putting them in to please those who can't keep up, it ultimately leaves only the "envious players" who are all just paying for the same bonuses in the end. The players who insist on doing things the old fashioned way will go to a game where the old fashioned way is the only way.
I could be wrong of course, but it just seems like the concept (on the company end) wasn't all the way thought through. Best case scenario: it'll create a player rift in the endgame. "Did you earn your gear, or just buy it?" Players will judge those who bought it, and choose not to deal with them--regardless of skill level.
I was iffy about this game when I was assuming it would use a standard subscription model, I was debating and considering. Now? NO WAY.
All the coolest costume options will be in the item shop. Half the attractor to this type of game is the character creation. I KNEW that Cryptic couldn't deal with NCSoft and not leave something behind. This is all NCCoin in action folks.
Think of playing a mmorpg as owning a car. Some people will buy a car and be happy with what they bought. Others will buy the car and make a hobby out of it. Every now and again they will spend money to apply better performance parts or to make the car look nicer. The people who don't mod/alter their cars will look at that person as having a strong hobby.
Playing mmorpgs can be a normal every day event. It can either become a hobby or a less serious form of entertainment. If one chooses to make playing mmorpgs a strong hobby, then they will use the microtransactions. Throwing money here and there into a game is just like putting money into a car. The "hobbyists" will alter their characters to their liking with added costume pieces ect. and others will be satisfied with a stock character.
People need to choose between playing a game and making the game a hobby. Also, people need to lay off those of us who choose to make it a hobby. Its their money, not yours, so why does everyone have to complain?
Well, quite obviously there are already companies who offer players (for money, of course) services to avoid being discriminated against for questionable actions ingame. Char transfers, name changes, faction transfers, cross-server transfers, char copies with different names etc. etc., so I guess a company would ensure that the player who bought stuff cant easily be recognized as such. Keep in mind, the players who buy in your store are your important customers.
I agree that this is more a question of what a company thinks they can get away with. Which is the sort of business ethics I despise, because it creates a vicious circle that will ruin the players fun AND the companies product in the long run.
Either way, you are also correct I think in your guess that people who dislike cash shops might easily go to a different game, leaving those who like to buy behind to out-buy each other. From a player point of view this may suck, for the company its probably not that bad, as long as those left behind continue to try and outbuy each other.
I believe a major reason why people rather invest time than money, and prefer to play a game where time may matter to an extent, but RL money is left out, is because time is more fair than money. Apart from a few things, someone who spends 3 hours can advance as far as anyone else in the same time, given the same skill and knowledge. RL money, however, just inserts a mechanic we all know from our RL and many may want to escape from. It breaks immersion in a far more fundamental way, and its something that most people never have the option of competing against.
Almost any game on this earth which involves a degree of practice and required skill is largely a time-based thing. Talent and Skill plays into it quite a bit, but practice is the determining factor for amateur sports, for games, for much of anything that isnt just chance-based. On the other hand, only very few sports are blatantly money-dependant, and I would venture a guess and claim if there ever was a sport devised that is PRIMARILY based on money, few would watch it on TV or practice it. Its just not interesting.
However, I havent heard a lot of people begrudging an olympia athlete because he has so much time on his hands and just won because he trained more.
No matter how many strawman arguments you can create for time vs. money, games work better off of time than off of money, and MMORPGs are no exception.
Here is my thought on the situation at hand: Think of playing a mmorpg as owning a car. Some people will buy a car and be happy with what they bought. Others will buy the car and make a hobby out of it. Every now and again they will spend money to apply better performance parts or to make the car look nicer. The people who don't mod/alter their cars will look at that person as having a strong hobby.
Playing mmorpgs can be a normal every day event. It can either become a hobby or a less serious form of entertainment. If one chooses to make playing mmorpgs a strong hobby, then they will use the microtransactions. Throwing money here and there into a game is just like putting money into a car. The "hobbyists" will alter their characters to their liking with added costume pieces ect. and others will be satisfied with a stock character.
People need to choose between playing a game and making the game a hobby. Also, people need to lay off those of us who choose to make it a hobby. Its their money, not yours, so why does everyone have to complain?
Probably because so far the hobby has been about spending time in your character - not spending more money in it, although you have the RMT companies cattering to that audience in the blackmarket.
Maybe it's part of the P2P genre this feeling of spending $15 monthly and stepping into a world apart from real life to enjoy as you wish, a hobby not about your credit card budget but about spending time with your hobby.
I think this is a quite obvious attempt at cashing in on a playertype that , supposedly, is becoming more and more the norm: The adult casual working person, who nonetheless has major issues with accepting that his limited playtime, in combination with RL responsibilities or just plain disinterest, is keeping him from competing in the top tier. The people who complain that the best items are usually gained by teamwork and/or substantial effort, the people who begrudge those with more time and/or skill their advantage, according to many MMORPG forums that audience is growing rapidly. For players with this onlook, with little time but big envy, a combination of monthly fee and MT is good. A monthly fee immediately puts a game into a situation where botting, macroing and hordes of immature gamehoppers are relatively rare. It makes a game more "important" by being more exclusive. Then, by giving you MT through which you can "catch up" or even "overtake" those pesky better/longer playing guys and gals, you can now buy yourself peace of mind and satisfy your envy and desire for power in a game that "matters". Personally, I would never play a game that charges a full monthly sub and still has MTs. I dont know anyone in my circle of gaming friends who ever considered paying a single cent in a cash shop. But I have often witnessed the above-described behaviour by players, who are simply unhappy with the way many current "important" MMORPGs dont allow to transfer RL money into the game, when they dont have the time nor inclination to actually play the game as is intended. I wouldnt actually be surprised if this approach has some success. Envy is a powerful emotion for many who feel left behind, but have an ego which chafes at that all the time.
Envy, huh. I have serious doubts about that hypothesis. I can see casuals wanting to purchase items because they can't get them any other way unless they raid. Raids and casuals don't mix well.
If you want to talk ego, then look no further than your local hardcore raider / PvPer. They corner the market on ego. Playing more hours in a sitting than casuals doesn't make you a better player, it means you have no life to speak of.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I was so excited to play this game. A bunch of my friends were going to get it, because it looked great. But now I definitely won't be buying it, and I'm sure many others feel the same way.
I agree with the person who said it is disturbing that people want to pay to NOT play the game. It seems to me that any game that goes to a cash shop for useful items is admitting that it has broken game mechanics. Is it too much of a chore to get that special object? Just buy it then.
Really? I thought the point of a game was to have fun. If it's not fun to get items, then your game is broken. Now, obeviously, this isn't just a problem with cash shop games. A lot of mmo's have issues with things getting too chore-like, and I think that's why my interest is waning on the games. Why should something take you 100 hours to complete in the first place?
A broken game mechanic is that time, not skill, lets you get cool stuff. Cash shops are a response to this broken gameplay. Companies are realizing that people are being turned off by the fact that teenage kids with nothing to do excel at the game, whereas they never will have the time to be equals. So now you can buy your way to equality. Why not just make the game fun?
Again though, this is a solution to something that is broken -- if they just fixed the root of the problem, it wouldn't be necessary.
Make getting objects require skill. Why is it that in real sports and games, you can usually tell who is better at it. I can look at someone playing basketball and know if they are better or worse than me. If you look at an mmo, you can see their gear and all you can assume is that they have more or less time to spend on the game. That's ridiculous.
People say that game companies do this because it allows them to make more money -- more time spent equals more cash flow. However, why not make more time spent be solely for the purpose of gaining more skill in the game. If you make an mmorpg's game mechanics based on skill at the game -- strategy, for instance -- you've made a much more fun game. Because it is fun to try and get better at something -- even if you fail then, you know it isn't because you need better GEAR, it's because you just need to practice a little bit more. Then, when you finally get that epic sword, it'll be because you actually earned it. Not through playing 100 easy hours, but by playing long enough to get good enough that you finally were able to beat it.
If it takes you 100 hours to get that good, fine. But if someone has more skill, it might only take them 50 hours to get good. Or you could have someone amazing who is able to fly through it straight away. This creates a world that is more fun, because there's actually a chance you can be the best.
The problem, of course, is that you have to get rid of some of the basic mechanics of mmo's for this to work. Levels and skills don't really make sense. They could be integrated with some thought, though.
The biggest problem, then, is that it's so much harder to develop a system like this. So it probably won't be done for a long time.
But in a world based on skill, where the battling and acquiring of objects is fun, you won't need microtransactions. But it'll be a long time until we see a game like that, so instead we're stuck playing games that are going to become unbalanced, or worse, have community mandated "required" things to buy. But that last idea sounds great to the game developer trying to make money.
I think the reason they did that is because most console gamers wont like a monthly sub to worry about. Anyway I dont realy think its going to be that hard to get the items in game thats also in the shop. Its not a big deal to me, and I dont care if some other people got better items or cooler looking customs sooner than I will. I will probably end up buying stuff from the shop my self sometimes but its going to be like a 5-10 dollar limit each month.
I think the reason they did that is because most console gamers wont like a monthly sub to worry about. Anyway I dont realy think its going to be that hard to get the items in game thats also in the shop. Its not a big deal to me, and I dont care if some other people got better items or cooler looking customs sooner than I will. I will probably end up buying stuff from the shop my self sometimes but its going to be like a 5-10 dollar limit each month.
Nah, they did it because they've seen DC Online and realize their game is pretty lame in comparison. They are implementing the cash shop so there is a seemless transition once they are forced to go F2P.
That would be my plan anyway. They need money to fund Star Trek, their real chance at a heavy hitter.
Here is my thought on the situation at hand: Think of playing a mmorpg as owning a car. Some people will buy a car and be happy with what they bought. Others will buy the car and make a hobby out of it. Every now and again they will spend money to apply better performance parts or to make the car look nicer. The people who don't mod/alter their cars will look at that person as having a strong hobby.
Playing mmorpgs can be a normal every day event. It can either become a hobby or a less serious form of entertainment. If one chooses to make playing mmorpgs a strong hobby, then they will use the microtransactions. Throwing money here and there into a game is just like putting money into a car. The "hobbyists" will alter their characters to their liking with added costume pieces ect. and others will be satisfied with a stock character.
People need to choose between playing a game and making the game a hobby. Also, people need to lay off those of us who choose to make it a hobby. Its their money, not yours, so why does everyone have to complain?
Comments
Crossing this one off the list of games to try.
I won't touch a game with any form of microtransactions, Period.
If it's "the future" of the genre, than it is a future I won't be a part of.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Seems to be the trend this year does it not? It is also a future that I will no longer be pa part of either. I am willing to pay $20.00 a month for sub fee's so raise them and I will gladly pay them for a game worth playing. However, I refuse to play these F2P games or any cash shop or micro transaction game period. The excuse is they can't raise the sub fee because games like WOW set a standard at $15.00 but we will milk the utters out of you with micro's. Screw you and your fucking game as it's another bumped off my list.
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
I just cancelled my pre-order - screw micro transactions.
The Adventures of Fat Gamer - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/FatGamer
Seems to be the trend this year does it not? It is also a future that I will no longer be pa part of either. I am willing to pay $20.00 a month for sub fee's so raise them and I will gladly pay them for a game worth playing. However, I refuse to play these F2P games or any cash shop or micro transaction game period. The excuse is they can't raise the sub fee because games like WOW set a standard at $15.00 but we will milk the utters out of you with micro's. Screw you and your fucking game as it's another bumped off my list.
Definitely. The funny thing is, there isn't even a game out there worth my $15 a month at the moment, and they want to milk more money out of their customers for the same amount of content? No thanks.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
This is great. I can still play the game without purchased in-game advancement advantage from someone else. /shrug
"Evolve"? Customers dictate what they want to consume, the key is to not support this kind of commercial game, especially when it crosses a line to provide an item mall while also being a P2P game.
If you disagree with this kind of commercial model, then do not play it. It's not like this will be the only MMO to be released soon. And in a market with many MMOs, only few will survive "above average".
I won't be playing it. I don't like and will not support RMT or MT business models in any game. Just as well. I wasn't too keen about the whole console style game play anyway.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Hope you plan on finding a new hobby, in the future almost all games will contain some form of RMT/micro transactions.
Too true, I fully expect most if not all future monthly fee games to start offering some kind of "perks" in addition to the monthly fee in the future. Some people have more free money than free time--they won't mind.
You all might notice the advertisements all over this site for Runes of Magic--it just had to add a new server due to increasing player population. This type of MMO game is catching on. Sites like this one promote it's recognition.
I figure what will finally cement the deal is Diablo 2 (not really an MMO, but hey, neither was Guild Wars), which is rumored to have some kind of RMT to pay for the upkeep of the new Battlenet 2.0. Love Blizzard or hate it due to WOW, D2 is going to be big. You're crazy if you think otherwise. It will bring RMT to the mainstream. I'd expect other companies to follow.
If enough do it, then it becomes the norm and stops being outrageous. RMT/ micro trans/ item shops are here to stay, the genre is evolving. Not saying it's good or bad, it just is what it is.
Continue with this MMO hobby or don't, this is the internet after all . . . no one is going to miss you, assuming they even knew you existed.
There's nothing wrong with a game company wanting to make more money. Not everything can be done on principal alone. But, if they can make more money off of this game then the next time a brilliant idea with limited appeal comes by them they may take a chance on it and "float" it just to have it made.
Don't forget that companies, no matter what industry, all need to make money to stick around and be successful.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales.
Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
There's nothing wrong with a game company wanting to make more money. Not everything can be done on principal alone. But, if they can make more money off of this game then the next time a brilliant idea with limited appeal comes by them they may take a chance on it and "float" it just to have it made.
Don't forget that companies, no matter what industry, all need to make money to stick around and be successful.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales.
Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
I find it very disturbing as well. I also find it disturbing that people are willing to pay for a game to avoid having to play it. That defeats the entire purpose of the game itself. The point is to play it, not to avoid playing it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Hope you plan on finding a new hobby, in the future almost all games will contain some form of RMT/micro transactions.
Too true, I fully expect most if not all future monthly fee games to start offering some kind of "perks" in addition to the monthly fee in the future. Some people have more free money than free time--they won't mind.
You all might notice the advertisements all over this site for Runes of Magic--it just had to add a new server due to increasing player population. This type of MMO game is catching on. Sites like this one promote it's recognition.
I figure what will finally cement the deal is Diablo 2 (not really an MMO, but hey, neither was Guild Wars), which is rumored to have some kind of RMT to pay for the upkeep of the new Battlenet 2.0. Love Blizzard or hate it due to WOW, D2 is going to be big. You're crazy if you think otherwise. It will bring RMT to the mainstream. I'd expect other companies to follow.
If enough do it, then it becomes the norm and stops being outrageous. RMT/ micro trans/ item shops are here to stay, the genre is evolving. Not saying it's good or bad, it just is what it is.
Continue with this MMO hobby or don't, this is the internet after all . . . no one is going to miss you, assuming they even knew you existed.
This industry already has a difficult time drawing in mainstream who find it a waste of 15 bucks a month for MMOs. What gives you the idea that charging even more with RMT and MT will suddenly have wider appeal?
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
So lets break that down
1) It allows us to make more money, which means we can hire more staff... of course any extra staff we might hire is completely counteracted by the fact that a significant portion of development time goes to the item mall.
2) What we mean by "mostly" is that most of the crap in the item mall with be junk that nobody cares about. But there will be a few items that will almost guarantee players a significant edge, either in leveling time or easy access power.
3) Any micro-transaction that has a game affect will take such a ridiculous amount of time and effort to earn in the real game you'll be totally discouraged from doing anything other than forking over your cash.
I went from being mildly interested in the game with the intention to definitely try it, to wanting absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think this is a quite obvious attempt at cashing in on a playertype that , supposedly, is becoming more and more the norm: The adult casual working person, who nonetheless has major issues with accepting that his limited playtime, in combination with RL responsibilities or just plain disinterest, is keeping him from competing in the top tier.
The people who complain that the best items are usually gained by teamwork and/or substantial effort, the people who begrudge those with more time and/or skill their advantage, according to many MMORPG forums that audience is growing rapidly.
For players with this onlook, with little time but big envy, a combination of monthly fee and MT is good. A monthly fee immediately puts a game into a situation where botting, macroing and hordes of immature gamehoppers are relatively rare. It makes a game more "important" by being more exclusive.
Then, by giving you MT through which you can "catch up" or even "overtake" those pesky better/longer playing guys and gals, you can now buy yourself peace of mind and satisfy your envy and desire for power in a game that "matters".
Personally, I would never play a game that charges a full monthly sub and still has MTs. I dont know anyone in my circle of gaming friends who ever considered paying a single cent in a cash shop. But I have often witnessed the above-described behaviour by players, who are simply unhappy with the way many current "important" MMORPGs dont allow to transfer RL money into the game, when they dont have the time nor inclination to actually play the game as is intended.
I wouldnt actually be surprised if this approach has some success. Envy is a powerful emotion for many who feel left behind, but have an ego which chafes at that all the time.
Frankly I would say they want both. What could be better for them other than a normal subscription fee plus allowing people to pay them extra money on top of that... The assumption has always been that MT game would be F2P, but honestly what company would not want to have their cake and eat it too? Lets face it these guys are in this for the money... And the only thing stopping them from doing both is the fear that players wouldn't buy their game, but once someone does it a sub/mt setup once it opens up the option to everyone else and as soon as anyone has any success with it the practice will be everywhere.
I'm not saying CO will do this and I got no inside information, but I think we could see someone try it soon.
You know what would be interesting, though? If a company trying this model would set up half their servers as pure monthly-fee servers, and the other half as monthly fee + cash shop.
See which ones are more popular. Frankly, I am absolutely sure this little experiment would go VASTLY in favor of the non-cash-shop servers for a lot of reasons, but it would be interesting nonetheless to try it.
The primary problem of a cash shop is that it only works in a surrounding where people want to spend. And people will not want to spend for advantages on empty, disrespected and ignored servers. So, you basically have to force your playerbase onto MT-enabled servers in order to facilitate an environment where those few wanting to spend more are willing to do so. The moment you allow people to decide they dont want to play with a cash shop, and dont want to be overtaken, your cash shop fails.
I don't disagree, but I also feel that the players who would be envied are generally the ones who are staunchly against MTs. So by putting them in to please those who can't keep up, it ultimately leaves only the "envious players" who are all just paying for the same bonuses in the end. The players who insist on doing things the old fashioned way will go to a game where the old fashioned way is the only way.
I could be wrong of course, but it just seems like the concept (on the company end) wasn't all the way thought through. Best case scenario: it'll create a player rift in the endgame. "Did you earn your gear, or just buy it?" Players will judge those who bought it, and choose not to deal with them--regardless of skill level.
I was iffy about this game when I was assuming it would use a standard subscription model, I was debating and considering. Now? NO WAY.
All the coolest costume options will be in the item shop. Half the attractor to this type of game is the character creation. I KNEW that Cryptic couldn't deal with NCSoft and not leave something behind. This is all NCCoin in action folks.
Pathetic.
RMT/F2P is garbage.
-.Sleepless.
Here is my thought on the situation at hand:
Think of playing a mmorpg as owning a car. Some people will buy a car and be happy with what they bought. Others will buy the car and make a hobby out of it. Every now and again they will spend money to apply better performance parts or to make the car look nicer. The people who don't mod/alter their cars will look at that person as having a strong hobby.
Playing mmorpgs can be a normal every day event. It can either become a hobby or a less serious form of entertainment. If one chooses to make playing mmorpgs a strong hobby, then they will use the microtransactions. Throwing money here and there into a game is just like putting money into a car. The "hobbyists" will alter their characters to their liking with added costume pieces ect. and others will be satisfied with a stock character.
People need to choose between playing a game and making the game a hobby. Also, people need to lay off those of us who choose to make it a hobby. Its their money, not yours, so why does everyone have to complain?
Well, quite obviously there are already companies who offer players (for money, of course) services to avoid being discriminated against for questionable actions ingame. Char transfers, name changes, faction transfers, cross-server transfers, char copies with different names etc. etc., so I guess a company would ensure that the player who bought stuff cant easily be recognized as such. Keep in mind, the players who buy in your store are your important customers.
I agree that this is more a question of what a company thinks they can get away with. Which is the sort of business ethics I despise, because it creates a vicious circle that will ruin the players fun AND the companies product in the long run.
Either way, you are also correct I think in your guess that people who dislike cash shops might easily go to a different game, leaving those who like to buy behind to out-buy each other. From a player point of view this may suck, for the company its probably not that bad, as long as those left behind continue to try and outbuy each other.
I believe a major reason why people rather invest time than money, and prefer to play a game where time may matter to an extent, but RL money is left out, is because time is more fair than money. Apart from a few things, someone who spends 3 hours can advance as far as anyone else in the same time, given the same skill and knowledge. RL money, however, just inserts a mechanic we all know from our RL and many may want to escape from. It breaks immersion in a far more fundamental way, and its something that most people never have the option of competing against.
Almost any game on this earth which involves a degree of practice and required skill is largely a time-based thing. Talent and Skill plays into it quite a bit, but practice is the determining factor for amateur sports, for games, for much of anything that isnt just chance-based. On the other hand, only very few sports are blatantly money-dependant, and I would venture a guess and claim if there ever was a sport devised that is PRIMARILY based on money, few would watch it on TV or practice it. Its just not interesting.
However, I havent heard a lot of people begrudging an olympia athlete because he has so much time on his hands and just won because he trained more.
No matter how many strawman arguments you can create for time vs. money, games work better off of time than off of money, and MMORPGs are no exception.
Probably because so far the hobby has been about spending time in your character - not spending more money in it, although you have the RMT companies cattering to that audience in the blackmarket.
Maybe it's part of the P2P genre this feeling of spending $15 monthly and stepping into a world apart from real life to enjoy as you wish, a hobby not about your credit card budget but about spending time with your hobby.
Envy, huh. I have serious doubts about that hypothesis. I can see casuals wanting to purchase items because they can't get them any other way unless they raid. Raids and casuals don't mix well.
If you want to talk ego, then look no further than your local hardcore raider / PvPer. They corner the market on ego. Playing more hours in a sitting than casuals doesn't make you a better player, it means you have no life to speak of.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Remember the hundreds of free costume parts you got in CoH? Well, screw you, you're paying for them now.
Hey, anything that changes gameplay can be acquired in-game as well, of course its all super rare and will require extreme luck or months of grinding.
I always knew Cryptic was going to screw up with Champions Online. This just proves I was right to be distrustful of this second rate MMO developer.
I was so excited to play this game. A bunch of my friends were going to get it, because it looked great. But now I definitely won't be buying it, and I'm sure many others feel the same way.
I agree with the person who said it is disturbing that people want to pay to NOT play the game. It seems to me that any game that goes to a cash shop for useful items is admitting that it has broken game mechanics. Is it too much of a chore to get that special object? Just buy it then.
Really? I thought the point of a game was to have fun. If it's not fun to get items, then your game is broken. Now, obeviously, this isn't just a problem with cash shop games. A lot of mmo's have issues with things getting too chore-like, and I think that's why my interest is waning on the games. Why should something take you 100 hours to complete in the first place?
A broken game mechanic is that time, not skill, lets you get cool stuff. Cash shops are a response to this broken gameplay. Companies are realizing that people are being turned off by the fact that teenage kids with nothing to do excel at the game, whereas they never will have the time to be equals. So now you can buy your way to equality. Why not just make the game fun?
Again though, this is a solution to something that is broken -- if they just fixed the root of the problem, it wouldn't be necessary.
Make getting objects require skill. Why is it that in real sports and games, you can usually tell who is better at it. I can look at someone playing basketball and know if they are better or worse than me. If you look at an mmo, you can see their gear and all you can assume is that they have more or less time to spend on the game. That's ridiculous.
People say that game companies do this because it allows them to make more money -- more time spent equals more cash flow. However, why not make more time spent be solely for the purpose of gaining more skill in the game. If you make an mmorpg's game mechanics based on skill at the game -- strategy, for instance -- you've made a much more fun game. Because it is fun to try and get better at something -- even if you fail then, you know it isn't because you need better GEAR, it's because you just need to practice a little bit more. Then, when you finally get that epic sword, it'll be because you actually earned it. Not through playing 100 easy hours, but by playing long enough to get good enough that you finally were able to beat it.
If it takes you 100 hours to get that good, fine. But if someone has more skill, it might only take them 50 hours to get good. Or you could have someone amazing who is able to fly through it straight away. This creates a world that is more fun, because there's actually a chance you can be the best.
The problem, of course, is that you have to get rid of some of the basic mechanics of mmo's for this to work. Levels and skills don't really make sense. They could be integrated with some thought, though.
The biggest problem, then, is that it's so much harder to develop a system like this. So it probably won't be done for a long time.
But in a world based on skill, where the battling and acquiring of objects is fun, you won't need microtransactions. But it'll be a long time until we see a game like that, so instead we're stuck playing games that are going to become unbalanced, or worse, have community mandated "required" things to buy. But that last idea sounds great to the game developer trying to make money.
I think the reason they did that is because most console gamers wont like a monthly sub to worry about. Anyway I dont realy think its going to be that hard to get the items in game thats also in the shop. Its not a big deal to me, and I dont care if some other people got better items or cooler looking customs sooner than I will. I will probably end up buying stuff from the shop my self sometimes but its going to be like a 5-10 dollar limit each month.
Nah, they did it because they've seen DC Online and realize their game is pretty lame in comparison. They are implementing the cash shop so there is a seemless transition once they are forced to go F2P.
That would be my plan anyway. They need money to fund Star Trek, their real chance at a heavy hitter.
Playing an mmo is more like playing a sport.
Microtransactions are like bribing the referee.