Yet, while WoW is a superior game, it's not all that much more of a thrill... too much convenience eventually kills the fun somehow, because everything you could have done yourself, the game does it for you.
May be for you.
Now please tell me how I can get WOW to kill the bosses on hardmode for me so I can get free epics? I am dying to know.
Heck .. I was in a VoA PuG this morning and we wiped 4 times on the new boss (i guess most are new to it). That was the fun part. I don't think it will ADD to the fun if I have to walk 40 min to the dungeon beforehand, or if I have to stare at a static screen for 15 min before i am allowed to start. Heck, it takes quite a long time to get everyone into the raid. Anything to speed that up will be welcomed.
People not liking something is not the same as it being bad. People don't like having to travel. Don't like having limited inventory. Don't like being limited in mana, don't like that some towns don't have each and every vendor type, don't like their class not being uber. You could probably list 100 things that people don't like but that ultimately are good for the game.
Yeah, looking at a spell book was no fun, but neither was sitting down to heal. However you could make the pain less by chatting. Downtime was chat time. Chatting is good. I feel that games today are too slanted towards combat, they are becoming more one dimensional.
People not liking something is not the same as it being bad. People don't like having to travel. Don't like having limited inventory. Don't like being limited in mana, don't like that some towns don't have each and every vendor type, don't like their class not being uber. You could probably list 100 things that people don't like but that ultimately are good for the game. Yeah, looking at a spell book was no fun, but neither was sitting down to heal. However you could make the pain less by chatting. Downtime was chat time. Chatting is good. I feel that games today are too slanted towards combat, they are becoming more one dimensional.
How does lots of downtime or barely getting any exp per kill, stretching out the time needed to level give a game any more dimentions? EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety. THAT's one dimentional. Chatting or anything related to chatting is not a dimention or a feature;) Sorry. Compared to newer MMOs where you can group up OR solo, follow quests or ignore them and just chat whenever you feel like it, EQ was as 1 dimetional as you can get. Chatting while waiting around doesn't add gameplay, since you can still chat to your hearts content in any MMO.
EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety
The classes of Everquest: Bard -mainly twisting instruments Beastlord Beserker Cleric -mainly healing Druid -not auto-attack based Enchanter -not auto-attack based Magician -not auto-attack based Monk Necromancer -not auto-attack based Paladin Ranger Rogue Shadow Knight Warrior Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
People not liking something is not the same as it being bad. People don't like having to travel. Don't like having limited inventory. Don't like being limited in mana, don't like that some towns don't have each and every vendor type, don't like their class not being uber. You could probably list 100 things that people don't like but that ultimately are good for the game. Yeah, looking at a spell book was no fun, but neither was sitting down to heal. However you could make the pain less by chatting. Downtime was chat time. Chatting is good. I feel that games today are too slanted towards combat, they are becoming more one dimensional.
Good by what definition? By YOUR definition??
And a game that is no fun is GOOD???? Give me a break.
Originally posted by Josher If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group. It wasn't so much this way the first year of the game, which in my opinion was the best era.
The game design often had the opposite effect due to the cock blocking nature of the mechanics. Anyone that wasn't helping your personal progress was more often than not a roadblock that needed to be circumvented. The animosity that was fostered by this competition was tremendous.
Essentially EQ trained players to hate those not directly related to their success, because in order to achieve someone else had to be denied content.
Everquest was without a doubt the most back biting hate filled community I have ever seen in a game. It was so horrible that SOE had to make an official policy on how players needed to interact with each other. Do you remember the Play Nice Policy? A set of rules that players could petition GMs to come in and arbitrate disputes by players. Yeah it was that bad.
How bad would things need to be today for a company to do something like that in a current mmo?
Don't get me wrong, everquest was a ton of fun and there were plenty of brightspots to the community, but it was aweful at the same time. I did 2 different runs through EQ. The first was in a guild that was cutting edge, totally dominated every single encounter on the server and the game was fun. The second time around was in a smaller guild with real life friends. Competition was very ugly and the level other guilds would sink to was just plain nasty. I can understand why anyone might have a negative view of this game or a positive view. I've seen both sides.
EQ can attribute it's success mostly to one thing, being first. It was the first 3d D&D type world. Had it been AC1 or DAOC, everyone would have the nostalgic memories of those games.
EQ was a grouped up, grindfest and it sucked.
UO(pre-Trammel) and AC1(before all the bots and TPA's) were better IMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
People not liking something is not the same as it being bad. People don't like having to travel. Don't like having limited inventory. Don't like being limited in mana, don't like that some towns don't have each and every vendor type, don't like their class not being uber. You could probably list 100 things that people don't like but that ultimately are good for the game. Yeah, looking at a spell book was no fun, but neither was sitting down to heal. However you could make the pain less by chatting. Downtime was chat time. Chatting is good. I feel that games today are too slanted towards combat, they are becoming more one dimensional.
How does lots of downtime or barely getting any exp per kill, stretching out the time needed to level give a game any more dimentions? EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety. THAT's one dimentional. Chatting or anything related to chatting is not a dimention or a feature;) Sorry. Compared to newer MMOs where you can group up OR solo, follow quests or ignore them and just chat whenever you feel like it, EQ was as 1 dimetional as you can get. Chatting while waiting around doesn't add gameplay, since you can still chat to your hearts content in any MMO.
Your rambling makes no sense to me ... assuming you did play EQ and are not some kind of weirdo hating a game he never played, you're comparing a computer running on 3.1 vs XP; of course the latter will be better, yet looking back you either liked it at the time or you didn't.
I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
I'm sorry but as for WoW, it's harder to really get to know other people outside of your guild, since everyone is running around doing it's soloable-quests while lvling, or grouping with guildmates at max level. Community in WoW is alot about the guild you are in; in EQ it was more about the server.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
People not liking something is not the same as it being bad. People don't like having to travel. Don't like having limited inventory. Don't like being limited in mana, don't like that some towns don't have each and every vendor type, don't like their class not being uber. You could probably list 100 things that people don't like but that ultimately are good for the game. Yeah, looking at a spell book was no fun, but neither was sitting down to heal. However you could make the pain less by chatting. Downtime was chat time. Chatting is good. I feel that games today are too slanted towards combat, they are becoming more one dimensional.
How does lots of downtime or barely getting any exp per kill, stretching out the time needed to level give a game any more dimentions? EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety. THAT's one dimentional. Chatting or anything related to chatting is not a dimention or a feature;) Sorry. Compared to newer MMOs where you can group up OR solo, follow quests or ignore them and just chat whenever you feel like it, EQ was as 1 dimetional as you can get. Chatting while waiting around doesn't add gameplay, since you can still chat to your hearts content in any MMO.
Your rambling makes no sense to me ... assuming you did play EQ and are not some kind of weirdo hating a game he never played, you're comparing a computer running on 3.1 vs XP; of course the latter will be better, yet looking back you either liked it at the time or you didn't.
I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
I'm sorry but as for WoW, it's harder to really get to know other people outside of your guild, since everyone is running around doing it's soloable-quests while lvling, or grouping with guildmates at max level. Community in WoW is alot about the guild you are in; in EQ it was more about the server.
Red by me:
EQ got to the same point WoW is at eventually as well.
Granted not as quickly as WoW, but eventually it all came down to which uber raiding guild you were in.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Originally posted by Omega3 I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
Once thing does not deny the other. I don't know why on earth you think WOW fixed EQ. WOW just dumbed down everything and made an extraordinay Theme Park inspired in an epic hardcore game that we will never see again.
I played classic EQ, but let's not go overboard with praising the game.
EQ had almost no quests and all you did was grind. So your quest argument is silly, people didn't group for questing, they just grouped to grind.
The argument that lacking maps helped EQ is ridiculous. Everyone used EQ maps from stratics or other sites and later on in the game downloaded them from Mapfiend.
The game wasn't difficult either, it was time-consuming and often quite boring.
Not everyone sucked and died over and over, many were in guilds trailblazing and leaving everyone else behind in their banded armor. The game was easy or hard depending on what guild you were in and what sites you knew. Many didn't know sites like EQtraders and Allakhazam, but many did, if you didn't know about any of that, the game seemed really hard, while in reality, it wasn't.
Anyhow, I think you're painting the picture of classic EQ you want to paint, EQ was great but sucked in an incredible amount of ways too. WoW improved a lot of things EQ didn't do, tradeskills in WoW are a breath of fresh air compared to the ridiculous timesinks and completely unbalanced tradeskills EQ had for example.
Such flame bait. Memories of our youth are always glorified. We did not know just how bad things were back then. It's like going back and playing the Indiana Jones games on an Atari 2600. You have memories of this involved adventure game that was fun and hard to win. Then you go back and play it 20 years later (like I did) and you finish it in 20 minutes and your like WTF?!?! Time has a way of making even the mundane and boring seem like fun. When in reality you did not know better, or just did not have enough life experience to know the difference.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
A) Shit unable to get into a decent guild C) unable to make freinds due to lack of social skills D) Shit E) Never played it just think it makes them look hardcore. D) Just cant deal with losing F) Cross eyed.
Funny, I played EQ up till the last expansion and my current warrior is sitting at 36k unbuffed before I stopped playing her, which is tier 2 SoD, and I still think EQ had a lot of stuff that was "Shit".
Social skills didn't always come into play, it was more convincing people to join you that was needed. Making a list of friends and being nice from behind your keyboard is something anyone, with or without social skills, can do. And that was all it took.
It's funny how so few remember how bad EQ was at times, from the incredible amount of zoning some zones took, to the amount it took to get to your group / raid and the timesinks of everything. Tradeskills completely unbalanced, PVP neglected after a year from launch, developers breaking everything with every patch, epics which were broken, PoP being half-finished at launch, GoD being hated by almost everyone..I can go on for an hour like this, but I'll just stop here.
Originally posted by Omega3 I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
Once thing does not deny the other. I don't know why on earth you think WOW fixed EQ. WOW just dumbed down everything and made an extraordinay Theme Park inspired in an epic hardcore game that we will never see again.
EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety
The classes of Everquest:
Bard -mainly twisting instruments
Beastlord
Beserker
Cleric -mainly healing
Druid -not auto-attack based
Enchanter -not auto-attack based
Magician -not auto-attack based
Monk
Necromancer -not auto-attack based
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Shadow Knight
Warrior
Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
I would add a fourth.
The Realists.
We understand WHY classic EQ worked and how it achieved it's longevity and community, and why other modern games have failed.
This has nothing to do with nostalgia, it's just an observation of game design and mechanics.
Originally posted by Josher If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group.
I guess that depended on you as a player... I was very social in classic EQ, no matter what class I played (though I mained a cleric). I fully understood that having an extended social network beyond the guild to find groups, rezzes, TPs, whatever was essential, and so I developed and maintained one. From this basic mutual need for others came in game and RL friendships, some of which are still very much alive even today (I stopped playing around '93).
Yes, you could limit yourself to your guild, but 'needed'? Nah, not at all. I always played in smallish family type guilds (tried raiding, didnt like that), so it was important for me to build a friends list to quickly build PUGs based around players I knew and trusted when others in my guild that had the classes I needed wernt online.
Originally posted by Omega3 I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
Once thing does not deny the other. I don't know why on earth you think WOW fixed EQ. WOW just dumbed down everything and made an extraordinay Theme Park inspired in an epic hardcore game that we will never see again.
Who is that "people" you talk about?
ya having seen the first 2 level of eq1 yesterday i can say this game isnt for wimp ,and its meant that way
i always wondered why they had eq1 ,eq2 its two very different beast
eq1 is learn learn learn,you have to use your brain no choice whatsoever
eq2 is fun too but easy mode compared to eq1 graphic are lush voice over and npc is very nice
wow hell i played it for 3 years and i can say now its bland compared to eq1 .
its free realm for adult!
its not bad but you dont need to use your brain in wow compared to eq1
in eq 1 if you dont use your brain you dont go forward its that simple go just get the trial you ll see what i mean
the first thot you ll have is WTF. and you ll start searching no choice no searching you dont even hop 1 level
thats the freaking good thing about this game wich appeal to me just talking about it
NO hand holding here! AND THAT MY FRIEND IS VERY IN !!IN A MMO
We have nostalgia for it, those of us who grew up on Happy Meals and Mayor Mccheese.
However, most of us grew up and moved on to Captain D's or some other restaurant. Hehehe..That last part kind of falls apart as an analogy.
Srsly though, EQ was at the "Right place, at the right time".
I tried to go back and play it. There have been dozens of add-ons since I last dawned it's darkened halls. I couldn't believe how many things I took for granted that later games took the EQ model and enhanced (even EQ2). It was like getting a new happy meal toy when you are 38 years old. It just doesn't work.
It should be said that EQ was destroyed in 2002 with Planes of Power expansion and following, so anybody trying EQ now or post-PoP hasn't experienced what made EQ unique.
And EQ wasn't considered hardcore at that time. It was just a normal MMO. Nodoby would have imagined the crap we have to play now.
Ah, Everquest, what a cruel mistress... I too remember those days fondly, and miss them dearly but the fact of the matter is I could never play a game like that now. When I played that back in 1999 I was 16 and carefree, now at 26 with a house and responsibilities I just lack the time needed to succeed.
Couldn't agree with this more, yes there needs to a game that the hardcore can play and enjoy like those games from a decade ago but just like those games they will not be high budget games.
I'm looking forward to TOR mainly because it looks like it will just be fun, can log on for an hour or two and continue my story, without really worrying about "I gotta play 12 hours a day, cause I wanna be the best". I just wanna relax and have fun now a days
One of the things that made EQ so great is that the players didn't have all these expectations of what an MMORPG should be. It was practically the only 3D MMORPG on the market for a long time, so players didn't already have 2-3 MMORPGs under their belt already and had nothing to compare it to. The players played for different reasons then than they do now. Back then it was about being able to play a RPG ( like dungeons and dragons) online with other people. Today its mostly all about loot. I alos agree with everything the OP said, however, being horrible at directions, I really enjoy having maps telling you exactly where to go to complete quests. I don't know. Seems like the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety
The classes of Everquest:
Bard -mainly twisting instruments
Beastlord
Beserker
Cleric -mainly healing
Druid -not auto-attack based
Enchanter -not auto-attack based
Magician -not auto-attack based
Monk
Necromancer -not auto-attack based
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Shadow Knight
Warrior
Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
You forgot Shaman
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
Yet, while WoW is a superior game, it's not all that much more of a thrill... too much convenience eventually kills the fun somehow, because everything you could have done yourself, the game does it for you.
May be for you.
Now please tell me how I can get WOW to kill the bosses on hardmode for me so I can get free epics? I am dying to know.
Heck .. I was in a VoA PuG this morning and we wiped 4 times on the new boss (i guess most are new to it). That was the fun part. I don't think it will ADD to the fun if I have to walk 40 min to the dungeon beforehand, or if I have to stare at a static screen for 15 min before i am allowed to start. Heck, it takes quite a long time to get everyone into the raid. Anything to speed that up will be welcomed.
People not liking something is not the same as it being bad. People don't like having to travel. Don't like having limited inventory. Don't like being limited in mana, don't like that some towns don't have each and every vendor type, don't like their class not being uber. You could probably list 100 things that people don't like but that ultimately are good for the game.
Yeah, looking at a spell book was no fun, but neither was sitting down to heal. However you could make the pain less by chatting. Downtime was chat time. Chatting is good. I feel that games today are too slanted towards combat, they are becoming more one dimensional.
How does lots of downtime or barely getting any exp per kill, stretching out the time needed to level give a game any more dimentions? EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety. THAT's one dimentional. Chatting or anything related to chatting is not a dimention or a feature;) Sorry. Compared to newer MMOs where you can group up OR solo, follow quests or ignore them and just chat whenever you feel like it, EQ was as 1 dimetional as you can get. Chatting while waiting around doesn't add gameplay, since you can still chat to your hearts content in any MMO.
The classes of Everquest:
Bard -mainly twisting instruments
Beastlord
Beserker
Cleric -mainly healing
Druid -not auto-attack based
Enchanter -not auto-attack based
Magician -not auto-attack based
Monk
Necromancer -not auto-attack based
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Shadow Knight
Warrior
Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
Good by what definition? By YOUR definition??
And a game that is no fun is GOOD???? Give me a break.
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group. It wasn't so much this way the first year of the game, which in my opinion was the best era.
The game design often had the opposite effect due to the cock blocking nature of the mechanics. Anyone that wasn't helping your personal progress was more often than not a roadblock that needed to be circumvented. The animosity that was fostered by this competition was tremendous.
Essentially EQ trained players to hate those not directly related to their success, because in order to achieve someone else had to be denied content.
Everquest was without a doubt the most back biting hate filled community I have ever seen in a game. It was so horrible that SOE had to make an official policy on how players needed to interact with each other. Do you remember the Play Nice Policy? A set of rules that players could petition GMs to come in and arbitrate disputes by players. Yeah it was that bad.
How bad would things need to be today for a company to do something like that in a current mmo?
Don't get me wrong, everquest was a ton of fun and there were plenty of brightspots to the community, but it was aweful at the same time. I did 2 different runs through EQ. The first was in a guild that was cutting edge, totally dominated every single encounter on the server and the game was fun. The second time around was in a smaller guild with real life friends. Competition was very ugly and the level other guilds would sink to was just plain nasty. I can understand why anyone might have a negative view of this game or a positive view. I've seen both sides.
Best? Hardley....
EQ can attribute it's success mostly to one thing, being first. It was the first 3d D&D type world. Had it been AC1 or DAOC, everyone would have the nostalgic memories of those games.
EQ was a grouped up, grindfest and it sucked.
UO(pre-Trammel) and AC1(before all the bots and TPA's) were better IMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
How does lots of downtime or barely getting any exp per kill, stretching out the time needed to level give a game any more dimentions? EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety. THAT's one dimentional. Chatting or anything related to chatting is not a dimention or a feature;) Sorry. Compared to newer MMOs where you can group up OR solo, follow quests or ignore them and just chat whenever you feel like it, EQ was as 1 dimetional as you can get. Chatting while waiting around doesn't add gameplay, since you can still chat to your hearts content in any MMO.
Your rambling makes no sense to me ... assuming you did play EQ and are not some kind of weirdo hating a game he never played, you're comparing a computer running on 3.1 vs XP; of course the latter will be better, yet looking back you either liked it at the time or you didn't.
I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
I'm sorry but as for WoW, it's harder to really get to know other people outside of your guild, since everyone is running around doing it's soloable-quests while lvling, or grouping with guildmates at max level. Community in WoW is alot about the guild you are in; in EQ it was more about the server.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
How does lots of downtime or barely getting any exp per kill, stretching out the time needed to level give a game any more dimentions? EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety. THAT's one dimentional. Chatting or anything related to chatting is not a dimention or a feature;) Sorry. Compared to newer MMOs where you can group up OR solo, follow quests or ignore them and just chat whenever you feel like it, EQ was as 1 dimetional as you can get. Chatting while waiting around doesn't add gameplay, since you can still chat to your hearts content in any MMO.
Your rambling makes no sense to me ... assuming you did play EQ and are not some kind of weirdo hating a game he never played, you're comparing a computer running on 3.1 vs XP; of course the latter will be better, yet looking back you either liked it at the time or you didn't.
I doubt anyone here is saying that EQ game mechanics were BETTER than those of modern MMO (namely WoW), since WoW is a "fixed" version of EQ essentially. People are just saying that in the 1999-2001 EQ era, getting to know people was easier, even tho the gameplay might look by 2009's standard completely dated.
I'm sorry but as for WoW, it's harder to really get to know other people outside of your guild, since everyone is running around doing it's soloable-quests while lvling, or grouping with guildmates at max level. Community in WoW is alot about the guild you are in; in EQ it was more about the server.
Red by me:
EQ got to the same point WoW is at eventually as well.
Granted not as quickly as WoW, but eventually it all came down to which uber raiding guild you were in.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Once thing does not deny the other. I don't know why on earth you think WOW fixed EQ. WOW just dumbed down everything and made an extraordinay Theme Park inspired in an epic hardcore game that we will never see again.
Who is that "people" you talk about?
I played classic EQ, but let's not go overboard with praising the game.
EQ had almost no quests and all you did was grind. So your quest argument is silly, people didn't group for questing, they just grouped to grind.
The argument that lacking maps helped EQ is ridiculous. Everyone used EQ maps from stratics or other sites and later on in the game downloaded them from Mapfiend.
The game wasn't difficult either, it was time-consuming and often quite boring.
Not everyone sucked and died over and over, many were in guilds trailblazing and leaving everyone else behind in their banded armor. The game was easy or hard depending on what guild you were in and what sites you knew. Many didn't know sites like EQtraders and Allakhazam, but many did, if you didn't know about any of that, the game seemed really hard, while in reality, it wasn't.
Anyhow, I think you're painting the picture of classic EQ you want to paint, EQ was great but sucked in an incredible amount of ways too. WoW improved a lot of things EQ didn't do, tradeskills in WoW are a breath of fresh air compared to the ridiculous timesinks and completely unbalanced tradeskills EQ had for example.
All these people slamming EQ were either.....
A) Shit
C) unable to make freinds due to lack of social skills and felt silly standing outside Freeport asking for copper all day.
D) Shit
E) Never played it just think it makes them look hardcore.
D) Just cant deal with losing
F) Cross eyed.
Such flame bait. Memories of our youth are always glorified. We did not know just how bad things were back then. It's like going back and playing the Indiana Jones games on an Atari 2600. You have memories of this involved adventure game that was fun and hard to win. Then you go back and play it 20 years later (like I did) and you finish it in 20 minutes and your like WTF?!?! Time has a way of making even the mundane and boring seem like fun. When in reality you did not know better, or just did not have enough life experience to know the difference.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
Funny, I played EQ up till the last expansion and my current warrior is sitting at 36k unbuffed before I stopped playing her, which is tier 2 SoD, and I still think EQ had a lot of stuff that was "Shit".
Social skills didn't always come into play, it was more convincing people to join you that was needed. Making a list of friends and being nice from behind your keyboard is something anyone, with or without social skills, can do. And that was all it took.
It's funny how so few remember how bad EQ was at times, from the incredible amount of zoning some zones took, to the amount it took to get to your group / raid and the timesinks of everything. Tradeskills completely unbalanced, PVP neglected after a year from launch, developers breaking everything with every patch, epics which were broken, PoP being half-finished at launch, GoD being hated by almost everyone..I can go on for an hour like this, but I'll just stop here.
this
this
I dunno i had some of the best sex in my life when i was 17.
Once thing does not deny the other. I don't know why on earth you think WOW fixed EQ. WOW just dumbed down everything and made an extraordinay Theme Park inspired in an epic hardcore game that we will never see again.
Who is that "people" you talk about?
Nice Reply
The classes of Everquest:
Bard -mainly twisting instruments
Beastlord
Beserker
Cleric -mainly healing
Druid -not auto-attack based
Enchanter -not auto-attack based
Magician -not auto-attack based
Monk
Necromancer -not auto-attack based
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Shadow Knight
Warrior
Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
I would add a fourth.
The Realists.
We understand WHY classic EQ worked and how it achieved it's longevity and community, and why other modern games have failed.
This has nothing to do with nostalgia, it's just an observation of game design and mechanics.
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group.
I guess that depended on you as a player... I was very social in classic EQ, no matter what class I played (though I mained a cleric). I fully understood that having an extended social network beyond the guild to find groups, rezzes, TPs, whatever was essential, and so I developed and maintained one. From this basic mutual need for others came in game and RL friendships, some of which are still very much alive even today (I stopped playing around '93).
Yes, you could limit yourself to your guild, but 'needed'? Nah, not at all. I always played in smallish family type guilds (tried raiding, didnt like that), so it was important for me to build a friends list to quickly build PUGs based around players I knew and trusted when others in my guild that had the classes I needed wernt online.
Once thing does not deny the other. I don't know why on earth you think WOW fixed EQ. WOW just dumbed down everything and made an extraordinay Theme Park inspired in an epic hardcore game that we will never see again.
Who is that "people" you talk about?
ya having seen the first 2 level of eq1 yesterday i can say this game isnt for wimp ,and its meant that way
i always wondered why they had eq1 ,eq2 its two very different beast
eq1 is learn learn learn,you have to use your brain no choice whatsoever
eq2 is fun too but easy mode compared to eq1 graphic are lush voice over and npc is very nice
wow hell i played it for 3 years and i can say now its bland compared to eq1 .
its free realm for adult!
its not bad but you dont need to use your brain in wow compared to eq1
in eq 1 if you dont use your brain you dont go forward its that simple go just get the trial you ll see what i mean
the first thot you ll have is WTF. and you ll start searching no choice no searching you dont even hop 1 level
thats the freaking good thing about this game wich appeal to me just talking about it
NO hand holding here! AND THAT MY FRIEND IS VERY IN !!IN A MMO
Everquest reminds me of Mcdonalds.
It's familliar, but it's food aint that great.
It'll satisfy you if you are hungry.
We have nostalgia for it, those of us who grew up on Happy Meals and Mayor Mccheese.
However, most of us grew up and moved on to Captain D's or some other restaurant. Hehehe..That last part kind of falls apart as an analogy.
Srsly though, EQ was at the "Right place, at the right time".
I tried to go back and play it. There have been dozens of add-ons since I last dawned it's darkened halls. I couldn't believe how many things I took for granted that later games took the EQ model and enhanced (even EQ2). It was like getting a new happy meal toy when you are 38 years old. It just doesn't work.
(unless they are GI Joe, I love that stuff)
PS...Okay, or hotwheels.
It should be said that EQ was destroyed in 2002 with Planes of Power expansion and following, so anybody trying EQ now or post-PoP hasn't experienced what made EQ unique.
And EQ wasn't considered hardcore at that time. It was just a normal MMO. Nodoby would have imagined the crap we have to play now.
Couldn't agree with this more, yes there needs to a game that the hardcore can play and enjoy like those games from a decade ago but just like those games they will not be high budget games.
I'm looking forward to TOR mainly because it looks like it will just be fun, can log on for an hour or two and continue my story, without really worrying about "I gotta play 12 hours a day, cause I wanna be the best". I just wanna relax and have fun now a days
One of the things that made EQ so great is that the players didn't have all these expectations of what an MMORPG should be. It was practically the only 3D MMORPG on the market for a long time, so players didn't already have 2-3 MMORPGs under their belt already and had nothing to compare it to. The players played for different reasons then than they do now. Back then it was about being able to play a RPG ( like dungeons and dragons) online with other people. Today its mostly all about loot. I alos agree with everything the OP said, however, being horrible at directions, I really enjoy having maps telling you exactly where to go to complete quests. I don't know. Seems like the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The classes of Everquest:
Bard -mainly twisting instruments
Beastlord
Beserker
Cleric -mainly healing
Druid -not auto-attack based
Enchanter -not auto-attack based
Magician -not auto-attack based
Monk
Necromancer -not auto-attack based
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Shadow Knight
Warrior
Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
You forgot Shaman
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.