I believe you can form up a group and group queue using the cross-realm function. So in other words, she still can group up with her friends and find some random pug from whatever server to join them. I don't think it's going to destroy guilds, as long as there are stuff to do as a 10 or 25 man.
This.
Your argument is invalid, I've spent all day doing random heroics with a full 5 man of people I already knew.
Sorry to say but chicken little is crying the sky is falling, ONCE AGAIN.
Well, so far, everyone who is currently playing WOW seems to be in favor of this change, so from their perspective its is a great thing.
Remember though the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal. Meaning, while on the surface this change seems terrific, more grouping, better efficiency etc, has to be pure win right?
Maybe. Or maybe not. As a few other posters mentioned, I think the long term effect on the community and player interaction will be tremendous, reducing the game to even less of a virtual world, and more of a multiplayer game than it already was. (The description about Dalaran post patch by another poster was very ominous)
For players not interested in a virtual world this is no big deal of course, they only care about playing the game.
But I think something has been lost here, and now I suspect more games will follow this lead.
Since I haven't tried it, can't be totally sure but I don't think I like this change.
Oh well, I don't play anymore, and now, i probably never will.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Has everyone forgotten that this is an option and not a requirement?
Sorry for taking only this line from your post, but it is a way of thinking I see a lot.
It is not an option, it is a requirement!
Let me explain why I put it this way. Sure you can still go the old fashioned way. Just like in real life where you can still walk or use a horse to get around, to be able to keep up with those around you...well, it's probably best to take a car instead. You can still ignore this feature, but most around you won't. It will over time change the overall mentality towards groupng. Just like cross server battlegrounds did. Both are gread features for a lot of players and at the same time for some other players they remove too much of the fun.
I am sure that this will stay successfull, it will bring some people back and therefor from Blizzard's point of view it was a great decision. Just don't expect everyone to be happy about it.
...and suddenly I feel like the old man stuck in the past. I wish you lot a lot of fun with the game, for me it's time to look in other directions.
Have fun!
good point... except that there was no way around cross-realm battlegrounds. but i still agree with your point.
this really discourages me from picking WoW back up again. i was thinking about it for the new expansion but... maybe not. we'll see.
Please dont take this thread as a reason not to play WoW again.
This new LFG system only applies for 5 player instances. Everything PvE endgame requires 10 or 25 player instances and those must be with players from your own server....and most people run those with guilds anyways because of the structure and cohesiveness that guilds usually provide.
Furthermore, an example why this new LFG system will succeed is the battlegroup queueing system. Some players had the same reaction when they heard that battlegrounds were going to be cross-realm: Disappointment. However, those same players swallowed their words when their queue time to join a battleground was significantly reduced. In some case, players were waiting hours for a single queue to finally pop. After the changes, that queue time was reduced to less then five minutes. The same thing is happening now.
This change is a good thing and continues to be an example of how Blizzard improves upon and polishes their game.
It's casual heaven, the downside is I have had hardly anytime to talk to any guildies all day I seem to have had better random heroic groups than normal so far. Few hiccups when doing the 3 new 5 man dungeons, which otherwise went ok. Excellent feature, although maybe the game is becoming a bit guild warsy!
That is very true.
It comes so fast, I got into another instances seconds after leaving one, I never got time to refill reagents. The only way to go bio is yelling /afk don't pull need bio, inside an instance.
Never before I run exhausted doing 5man, instead of bored waiting for a group. Now, I have no time to craft, or do dailies or harvest. Luckily, I got enough money plowing thru fast heroics, looting and DEing drops, and never once dying. Let alone talk much to guildies. They are too busy themselves. Only way to talk now is guild vent, as I am too busy rinsing dungeons and healing, to type at all on guildchat.
I think alot of peoples problem with this feature is they are making getting the gear more accesable, and that upsets people who seem to think that gear is a measurement of personal status, and not just things on a screen, and are upset that they worked so hard for their gear, and now its just being "given" away.
The fact is you still have to run the instance, and do the same work, minus trying to find a group. and no more need to schedule things with a guild dealing with conflicting schedules, or anything like that.
The people who are upset as I've seen it are the people who want other people to not have gear because they see that as making them better players in some scewed logic. Either that or they think by making it easier to get a group blizzard is somehow taking the true challenge out of the game. please.
These are the same people who probably think the bag space mini game generates real game skill. (don't know what that is? play with just linen bags)
Its a good feature, and its the final nail in ending the days of the "hardcore player" now someone who only has 2 hours to play can log on, and have a blast for two hours, then log off.
Has everyone forgotten that this is an option and not a requirement?
Sorry for taking only this line from your post, but it is a way of thinking I see a lot.
It is not an option, it is a requirement!
Let me explain why I put it this way. Sure you can still go the old fashioned way. Just like in real life where you can still walk or use a horse to get around, to be able to keep up with those around you...well, it's probably best to take a car instead. You can still ignore this feature, but most around you won't. It will over time change the overall mentality towards groupng. Just like cross server battlegrounds did. Both are gread features for a lot of players and at the same time for some other players they remove too much of the fun.
I am sure that this will stay successfull, it will bring some people back and therefor from Blizzard's point of view it was a great decision. Just don't expect everyone to be happy about it.
...and suddenly I feel like the old man stuck in the past. I wish you lot a lot of fun with the game, for me it's time to look in other directions.
Have fun!
good point... except that there was no way around cross-realm battlegrounds. but i still agree with your point.
this really discourages me from picking WoW back up again. i was thinking about it for the new expansion but... maybe not. we'll see.
Please dont take this thread as a reason not to play WoW again.
This new LFG system only applies for 5 player instances. Everything PvE endgame requires 10 or 25 player instances and those must be with players from your own server....and most people run those with guilds anyways because of the structure and cohesiveness that guilds usually provide.
Furthermore, an example why this new LFG system will succeed is the battlegroup queueing system. Some players had the same reaction when they heard that battlegrounds were going to be cross-realm: Disappointment. However, those same players swallowed their words when their queue time to join a battleground was significantly reduced. In some case, players were waiting hours for a single queue to finally pop. After the changes, that queue time was reduced to less then five minutes. The same thing is happening now.
This change is a good thing and continues to be an example of how Blizzard improves upon and polishes their game.
I'm actually really glad you commented on this. People made it sound as though every 5, 10 and 25-man dungeon was going to be effected by the new system. Clearly I should not always listen to random people on forum boards
I think alot of peoples problem with this feature is they are making getting the gear more accesable, and that upsets people who seem to think that gear is a measurement of personal status, and not just things on a screen, and are upset that they worked so hard for their gear, and now its just being "given" away. The fact is you still have to run the instance, and do the same work, minus trying to find a group. and no more need to schedule things with a guild dealing with conflicting schedules, or anything like that. The people who are upset as I've seen it are the people who want other people to not have gear because they see that as making them better players in some scewed logic. Either that or they think by making it easier to get a group blizzard is somehow taking the true challenge out of the game. please. These are the same people who probably think the bag space mini game generates real game skill. (don't know what that is? play with just linen bags) Its a good feature, and its the final nail in ending the days of the "hardcore player" now someone who only has 2 hours to play can log on, and have a blast for two hours, then log off.
I have no issues with this new feature. I also wonder if people upset with it are concerned with loot. The only thing I got from the dungeon runs are endless DEed mats. They are ilvl200 stuffs for christ sake. Almost no one use them now, when you can buy ilvl245 gear with badges from running any H dungeon.
Yes I am thinking of making a new 80 and run these for easy ilvl200 gear. But with crusader orbs at 150g and runed orbs practically free, I might as well craft ilvl 226 and 245 gear right upon hitting lvl 80.
Your last paragraph is true. You can log on for 30 minutes finish a PUG and log out. Hell I can run 2 instances during lunch, eating a hotdog or pizza delivery as I heal super easy mode. Spam group heals and HoT the tank, eat something, talk to boss over phone, spam group heal again when it is off CD. Move to next camp of mobs.
May be a dumb question, have not played WoW in quite some time, but is there still 1day lockout on heroics? Someone said they got 5 emblem pieces in one night? Have things changed (lockout, emblem #s, etc) or am I just confused??
May be a dumb question, have not played WoW in quite some time, but is there still 1day lockout on heroics? Someone said they got 5 emblem pieces in one night? Have things changed (lockout, emblem #s, etc) or am I just confused??
If you use the random dungeon feature, no.
There are many types of emblems, right now after 3.3 you can get endless supply of EoT (second highest emblem), one per boss killed in heroics. If you run the random queue, you will be clearing a heroic in as little as 20-30 minutes each, and no downtime to next run, just need to hit the batheroom fast enough while the next dungeon is loading.
Well, so far, everyone who is currently playing WOW seems to be in favor of this change, so from their perspective its is a great thing. Remember though the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal. Meaning, while on the surface this change seems terrific, more grouping, better efficiency etc, has to be pure win right? Maybe. Or maybe not. As a few other posters mentioned, I think the long term effect on the community and player interaction will be tremendous, reducing the game to even less of a virtual world, and more of a multiplayer game than it already was. (The description about Dalaran post patch by another poster was very ominous) For players not interested in a virtual world this is no big deal of course, they only care about playing the game. But I think something has been lost here, and now I suspect more games will follow this lead. Since I haven't tried it, can't be totally sure but I don't think I like this change. Oh well, I don't play anymore, and now, i probably never will.
Quantify this entire post with this one sentence.
Server LFG has killed guilds? I see people say this a lot. It is your GUILD! I join a guild because I dig the folks and have fun playing the game with THEM...am I the only one that still prefers to run this or that instance WITH MY GUILDMATES? This entire, "They added server-group LFG, I can't ever do shi* with my guild again." mentality is horseshit... You get back what you put in.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Has everyone forgotten that this is an option and not a requirement?
Sorry for taking only this line from your post, but it is a way of thinking I see a lot.
It is not an option, it is a requirement!
Let me explain why I put it this way. Sure you can still go the old fashioned way. Just like in real life where you can still walk or use a horse to get around, to be able to keep up with those around you...well, it's probably best to take a car instead. You can still ignore this feature, but most around you won't. It will over time change the overall mentality towards groupng. Just like cross server battlegrounds did. Both are gread features for a lot of players and at the same time for some other players they remove too much of the fun.
I am sure that this will stay successfull, it will bring some people back and therefor from Blizzard's point of view it was a great decision. Just don't expect everyone to be happy about it.
...and suddenly I feel like the old man stuck in the past. I wish you lot a lot of fun with the game, for me it's time to look in other directions.
Have fun!
good point... except that there was no way around cross-realm battlegrounds. but i still agree with your point.
this really discourages me from picking WoW back up again. i was thinking about it for the new expansion but... maybe not. we'll see.
Please dont take this thread as a reason not to play WoW again.
This new LFG system only applies for 5 player instances. Everything PvE endgame requires 10 or 25 player instances and those must be with players from your own server....and most people run those with guilds anyways because of the structure and cohesiveness that guilds usually provide.
Furthermore, an example why this new LFG system will succeed is the battlegroup queueing system. Some players had the same reaction when they heard that battlegrounds were going to be cross-realm: Disappointment. However, those same players swallowed their words when their queue time to join a battleground was significantly reduced. In some case, players were waiting hours for a single queue to finally pop. After the changes, that queue time was reduced to less then five minutes. The same thing is happening now.
This change is a good thing and continues to be an example of how Blizzard improves upon and polishes their game.
I'm actually really glad you commented on this. People made it sound as though every 5, 10 and 25-man dungeon was going to be effected by the new system. Clearly I should not always listen to random people on forum boards
I may be wrong and since I have never been all that much into farming raids (loved raids untill they got to farmstatus, got bored fast after that) it doesn't matter much to me, but I think I can safely say the following: Mark my words, cross server raid LFG is coming soon. The 5man cross server LFG is a success, a lot of players seem to love it, so why would Blizzard not implement this for raiding as well? It will not doom the game, it might even make it more popular than it already is.
Over time this new system will become the standard in which the majority enjoys dungeons, raids today might be too hard for this system, maybe not, but if they are I am sure that as long as the majority uses this system the difficulty will get adjusted to it just like it has been adjusted in the past. A great thing for some, a bad thing for others.
No matter the outcome, wow will remain a quality mmo that a vast amount of players will enjoy. If this change is a good thing or a bad thing depends a lot on personal preference.
I agree with TheHavok on one thing though; never let anything said on a forum be a reason not to play a game, form your own opinion.
I may be wrong and since I have never been all that much into farming raids (loved raids untill they got to farmstatus, got bored fast after that) it doesn't matter much to me, but I think I can safely say the following: Mark my words, cross server raid LFG is coming soon. The 5man cross server LFG is a success, a lot of players seem to love it, so why would Blizzard not implement this for raiding as well? It will not doom the game, it might even make it more popular than it already is.
Over time this new system will become the standard in which the majority enjoys dungeons, raids today might be too hard for this system, maybe not, but if they are I am sure that as long as the majority uses this system the difficulty will get adjusted to it just like it has been adjusted in the past. A great thing for some, a bad thing for others.
No matter the outcome, wow will remain a quality mmo that a vast amount of players will enjoy. If this change is a good thing or a bad thing depends a lot on personal preference.
I agree with TheHavok on one thing though; never let anything said on a forum be a reason not to play a game, form your own opinion.
Cross server raid, cross server AH, or even doing away with server so that you can move around freely, is not really a bad thing. Technically, in terms of coding it is not hard. We can transfer our bank account from branch to branch, our Visa card from one cost centre to another, our bank by phone service system from Texas to Mexico. Why not a game account?
The real issue is game management. The real issue is how the game changes affects game play, from ease of grouping to abuses by ninjas and gold farmers (they surely are looking into this already), to game community, to economy. Cross server AH will give gold farmers enormous boost, just farm in one server and you sell globally over millions of users. It is issues like this that Blizz has to tackle, issues like this I work and solve for clients for a living (hehe personal ad here, but I do not take orders from strangers) punt intended.
I must say, Blizz is a good user of good ideas floating in the market, not necessarily original or new ideas. They are the ones that implement tested technology in places others failed to identify fruitful rooms in. They find the right things to implement, and the right way to enhance their existing product, while SoE screwed up SWG with NGE.
Much like Sony (not SoE) in the 60s to 80s. Phillips invented tape, VCR, ... . Sony created walkman, Discman. Sony becomes the biggest name in the world, Phillips almost went bankrupt.
I tell you what, I really wish the other piece of shit games I played like Vanguard, Warhammer and DDO had implemented this, I probably would still be playing them, instead of wasting money trying to find crawling groups.
To me this is a very good feature and I applaud Blizzard developers for putting it in, no longer is this game set up for the Big wig, eliteist, I have 40 level 80s on each server ass holes.
My least favorite thing about pugging is the waiting around for tank/heals/dps. This cross-server LFG feature is awesome for nearly insta-grouping. It's close to impossible to ninja loot (2nd least favorite thing) and it has all the things one might marvel at in a successful pug. Furthermore, you can LFRaid now too. So if I want to farm ezmode badges in Naxx I can jump into a raid with similarly and suiltably geared toons.
For my army of alts and even my main, this is win.
I tell you what, I really wish the other piece of shit games I played like Vanguard, Warhammer and DDO had implemented this, I probably would still be playing them, instead of wasting money trying to find crawling groups. To me this is a very good feature and I applaud Blizzard developers for putting it in, no longer is this game set up for the Big wig, eliteist, I have 40 level 80s on each server ass holes.
That's the difference between great game designers and people who "think" they know how to design "concepts".
I still remember the days back in 2006/2007 when on the unoficial official WAR forums the discussion was raging on between "realm" based PvP and clustered BG's (later called scenarios).
All nerds were saying: "no you kill immersion for not knowing your ennemy" so 90% voted non crossed BG's and non crossed PvP.
So War had ... 12 BG's (scenarios) cut up over 4 Tiers on one non clustered server and around 7 open world pvp zones cut up in those same 4 Tiers .... which turned you into a chicken if crossed ...
And so the "immersive" idea won.... and making the game unplayable due to population problems.
Of course War had other problems (unresponsive controls for a PvP game at launch),...
But the above shows "cool" concepts and "cool" definitions (sandbox, immersion, realm etc...) don't mean a THING if you can't link it with .... FUN and gaming pleasure.
And NO ..... sitting on a chair and looking at pixels on a monitor to wait for a group to form for.... hours kills ANY immersive ideas and that's far from "hard" or "challeging". That's just a waste of time in crappy first generation game design.
That's a lesson 80% of mmorpg.com posters will never learn.
I don't agree with you. I don't want to see this feature in any other game then wow. And for the record i love this feature in wow as it is perfect for my way of playing world of warcraft. But to think that it doesn't move wow further away from a world is just stupid. But for me that doesn't matter, i play other games for the 'world' feeling, and wow for dungeoncrawling. Now i don't have to log off if none of my friends are online.
Next step i want to se is one further level of difficulty of the dungeons, normal doesn't exist, we need a new real heroic mode for 5mans like the raids have.
The lazy ass, i mean the gamer will only have to login the game...and press the autoplay button...then he can go sleep, work whatever and the game plays by itself...
At the end of the day check all the exp, gold, epics..look at them and logout...yeahhh easymode at its best..or should i say lazymode
The lazy ass, i mean the gamer will only have to login the game...and press the autoplay button...then he can go sleep, work whatever and the game plays by itself... At the end of the day check all the exp, gold, epics..look at them and logout...yeahhh easymode at its best..or should i say lazymode
On one hand it's great when you level a new toon. You can actually find groups for DM and even Shadowfang, hell, even Maraudon is possible again. I wouldn't even consider it impossible to find a real (not just farming) group for any of the lv60 raid instances now. Not that I'd want to try, but I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed playing them, not farm them which is pretty much the only way today to see BWL or BRD from the inside. Which is a shame, they're amongst the most beautiful ones.
On the other hand... is it me or does this actually make "old school" groups less attractive? I mean, I could get a PUG any time and be instaported into the instance, while in a normal style group I still have to ride there (or rather, at least 2 people have to)? Is it me or is that a bit odd, to actually penalize those that have a fixed group to play with?
Also, I'd guess the community will suffer. From two things mainly. First, I don't think you will really form the kind of friendships anymore that you did when you normally leveled. You met someone and if he was nice, helpful and could play, you'd tack him to your friend list. And unless you leveled at a vastly different pace, you could check on him every time you needed someone for an instance and if he's there, you would team again, thus creating some sort of social network. Even in a smaller guild you could relatively easy find a group if you happen to be reliable and not a (insert profanity here), because someone in a raiding guild might know you and consider you as an option akin to "well, better than any random idiot or an empty slot" for their 25 raid if one of their members didn't show up.
Now, these networks won't exist anymore. You are dumped into a group with four other random people. People you will never see again, most likely, which opens up another box made by Mrs. Pandora: Being a ... not so nice person has no drawbacks anymore. You can be as much of a moron as you please, you can play like a complete idiot, you can needroll anything (at least if you can) and get away with it. You can join a multi-boss instance and quit after the first boss if he dropped what you came in for. And it will never come back to bite you in the rear. Yeah, you might be on the /ignore list of these 4 people now. But there are thousands more that will never hear about it and the pool of people to play with does not shrink.
I think it's a great feature up to level 80 (with a few drawbacks that probably won't affect many people other than me). It's a horrible one afterwards when the "real" rewards are harvested.
I was reading all of these comments and I have to say this:
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT
I'm sorry for shouting, but I had let it out of me.
The point is not if WOW is good or bad. The point is not if WOW is better or worse with these cross-server lfg option. The point is this: is WOW a MMORPG or a multiplayer game.
Why should this be important? Isn't the only thing that is important if the players have fun or not?
I will try to explain it to you with this a little bit crazy thought exeperiment:
You all know Modern Warfare 1 and 2. It's a great and very successful FPS. Now let's imagine that the producers of the game would want to make the 3rd part even better and so they put some third person sword fighting and magic spell casting into the game. Because of that the 3rd part becomes even more successful. Because of the success they make Modern Warfare 4 entirely a third person game with sword fighting and magic spell casting. But they still market it as FPS. And because Modern Warfare is so heavily dominating the market other FPS are following this trend. Then a group off original FPS players starts to protest that these games aren't FPS anymore. And they get attacked by the new FPS players:
- you are oldschool FPS players, you live in the past, get over it
- this is how FPS are meant to be played
- if you don't like FPS games, go play some other games
- in the past FPS were for the geeks and nerds, now they are really games for the gamers
This is what's happened to MMORPG. Saying that doing instances and raiding is MMORPG is like saying that third person sword fighting and magic spell casting is FPS.
Originally posted by alecbr The point is this: is WOW a MMORPG or a multiplayer game.
And why the hell wouldn't it be?
WoW is an MMORPG. I can go to Dalaran and see hundreds of people in 1 tiny area, clearly massive, and multiplayer, thus defining this concept.
It is just as MMORPG, if not infinitely moreso, than guild wars, an MMORPG (of sorts) that plays almost entirely instanced. The classification of MMORPG is not how many people play simultaneously in one dungeon fighting over the same loot spawn(s) as a line for a specific item drop gets ever-longer.
It's about a number of people coming onto 1 server and being able to interract with each other.
The game still has massive social bonds even with the dungeon finder. You can't argue that instant 5 mans are killing the game, I was doing that anyways when I hit 80. Almost endless hours in LFG trying to find people to take me on X heroic farming run etc.
Now, I go into guild chat and say "Anyone for a random heroic?", grab 4 people, maybe less, and off to some random dungeon we go.
The only difference this system offers over the old method is, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO FLY THERE AND SUMMON THE LAZY ONES. Nevermind that the random dungeon system doesn't have negative connotations like "Hey, anyone for Heroic Oc?" A lot of people have more reservations about specific dungeons, or flying there. Now there's a simple button to expedite groups of friends or just solo players into doing what they want to do, which is run heroics for fun and profit.
I see dungeons queueing a lot faster now, with people doing dungeons more, using the LFG tool to find more players. It's no longer bottlenecking due to a poor interface, causing people like me to just want to log off for lack of having people to readily group with.
Raids use this tool, of all things, to find puggers when necessary. It's rather amazing. There's much more incentive to find communities, and group up. The only real complaint I have is, I can't later regroup with people I enjoyed grouping with from other servers to bring to another dungeon after we split the group.
More games could stand to have a system like this if they are A) Instanced and group-centric, especially for progression. And more importantly, when you consider the only thing this system does is I) Eliminate the spamming in trade/LFG or perusing through the oft-unused LFG interface, and II) travel time to the instance.
I still group with friends, though I go solo if no one's interested in a specific dungeon I wish to do. I still see the massively multiplayer, as I often get a completely different group of people each time I hit a new instance. Friendships are made in single runs in some cases, and overall, enjoyment of the game has just gone up.
It is a good system that perfectly complements WoW, and any game that would likewise use a lot of instanced groups to get much done, such as DDO, GW, etc. It's not morphing the game into something it's not, like your false analogy in your post clearly is, where you change an obvious FPS into an obvious RPG. No, it's just taking an RPG and bringing the gameplay closer to the players, faster, not turning it into some halo wannabe. It's actually fun wanting to gear my character, and being able to press a single button, or ask guild chat for others to group with, and pressing a single button, to get whisked away to have some actual fun, instead of sitting in trade chat wondering if anyone will PST me.
SOE changed SWG from an sandbox MMO to a theme park MMO. Blizzard with patch 3.3 just changed WOW from a theme park MMO to a multiplayer game. But where SOE failed Blizzard might just succeed.
I'm talking about the cross realm looking for group option. I didn't thought this option was important when I heard about it. I thought it was just some small change to make the game a little bit more user friendly.
But I was checking the whole evening how my girlfriend played WOW after this patch 3.3. She is an ordinary WOW player. She has several characters. She is leveling them as quickly as possible. She has joined some guilds and made a lot of friends. She doing instances and raids with her friends almost every day - playing about 5-6 hours every day.
That was before patch 3.3. After the patch she just loves the cross realm looking for group option. The whole evening she is doing instances with this option. She isn't playing with her guild or other friends, she isn't chatting with them. She almost completely forgot them.
How is this option working. You chose the instance that you want to do, you specify the role that you want to play (dps, tank, healer) and you press a button. After some seconds you are in a instance with some other random players from all the servers in one region. You never met them before and you probably will never meet them again after this instance. Then you are doing the instance. If some player leaves - no problem there are other players in the queue and instantly you get a new player.
When I asked her why isn't she doing the instances with her friends she answered that it is more efficient this way and you level and gear up more quickly. You are doing exactly the instance that you want and you are doing it immediately. This is the fastest way to level up and to gear up. During the evening she checked with some of her friends. They were doing the same.
So how will players play WOW after this patch? I think this patch will destroy most of the guilds. You don't need them anymore for doing instances. Players will level solo as quickly as possible. And they will be doing instances with random players from all the servers in a region. When your character is level 80 you can put him in a city and he wont have to leave the city ever again. Just an ordinary multiplayer game. But I think that most of the players will love it and this will be a commercial success for Blizzard.
It does feel like Blizzard turned WoW into Diablo with a chat hub and people zoning into dungeons. Kinda reminds me of PSO.
The fact that people are eating this up and completely ignoring players on their own server prove that these players aren't mmo gamers.
If all you wanted was dungeon runner online why bother playing a mmo?
Originally posted by alecbr The point is this: is WOW a MMORPG or a multiplayer game.
And why the hell wouldn't it be?
WoW is an MMORPG. I can go to Dalaran and see hundreds of people in 1 tiny area, clearly massive, and multiplayer, thus defining this concept.
It is just as MMORPG, if not infinitely moreso, than guild wars, an MMORPG (of sorts) that plays almost entirely instanced. The classification of MMORPG is not how many people play simultaneously in one dungeon fighting over the same loot spawn(s) as a line for a specific item drop gets ever-longer.
It's about a number of people coming onto 1 server and being able to interract with each other.
The game still has massive social bonds even with the dungeon finder. You can't argue that instant 5 mans are killing the game, I was doing that anyways when I hit 80. Almost endless hours in LFG trying to find people to take me on X heroic farming run etc.
Now, I go into guild chat and say "Anyone for a random heroic?", grab 4 people, maybe less, and off to some random dungeon we go.
The only difference this system offers over the old method is, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO FLY THERE AND SUMMON THE LAZY ONES. Nevermind that the random dungeon system doesn't have negative connotations like "Hey, anyone for Heroic Oc?" A lot of people have more reservations about specific dungeons, or flying there. Now there's a simple button to expedite groups of friends or just solo players into doing what they want to do, which is run heroics for fun and profit.
I see dungeons queueing a lot faster now, with people doing dungeons more, using the LFG tool to find more players. It's no longer bottlenecking due to a poor interface, causing people like me to just want to log off for lack of having people to readily group with.
Raids use this tool, of all things, to find puggers when necessary. It's rather amazing. There's much more incentive to find communities, and group up. The only real complaint I have is, I can't later regroup with people I enjoyed grouping with from other servers to bring to another dungeon after we split the group.
More games could stand to have a system like this if they are A) Instanced and group-centric, especially for progression. And more importantly, when you consider the only thing this system does is I) Eliminate the spamming in trade/LFG or perusing through the oft-unused LFG interface, and II) travel time to the instance.
I still group with friends, though I go solo if no one's interested in a specific dungeon I wish to do. I still see the massively multiplayer, as I often get a completely different group of people each time I hit a new instance. Friendships are made in single runs in some cases, and overall, enjoyment of the game has just gone up.
It is a good system that perfectly complements WoW, and any game that would likewise use a lot of instanced groups to get much done, such as DDO, GW, etc. It's not morphing the game into something it's not, like your false analogy in your post clearly is, where you change an obvious FPS into an obvious RPG. No, it's just taking an RPG and bringing the gameplay closer to the players, faster, not turning it into some halo wannabe. It's actually fun wanting to gear my character, and being able to press a single button, or ask guild chat for others to group with, and pressing a single button, to get whisked away to have some actual fun, instead of sitting in trade chat wondering if anyone will PST me.
You just compared WoW to GW and DDO. You realize that most people dont consider GW/DDO mmos?
With this system WoW currently doesn't even need a game world.
I used to troll wow players on this board by saying Blizzard could put all players in one room and have the game be nothing but portals. I would get alot of heat for it.
Originally posted by metalhead980 It does feel like Blizzard turned WoW into Diablo with a chat hub and people zoning into dungeons. Kinda reminds me of PSO. The fact that people are eating this up and completely ignoring players on their own server prove that these players aren't mmo gamers. If all you wanted was dungeon runner online why bother playing a mmo?
The solo questers are still playing out in the game world.
Frankly, there was never much non-instanced group content. A few world dragons and pointless lag-generating open PvP was it. Group quests were a major hassle to co-ordinate.
I'd rather have a good chance of actually running some dungeons, than having to spend 10-20 minutes traveling to the entrance while 1 or 2 of the group lose interest and log off.
It's not a perfect solution (and not the method I would have chosen), but (in theory) it does improve the overall game quite a bit.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by metalhead980 It does feel like Blizzard turned WoW into Diablo with a chat hub and people zoning into dungeons. Kinda reminds me of PSO. The fact that people are eating this up and completely ignoring players on their own server prove that these players aren't mmo gamers. If all you wanted was dungeon runner online why bother playing a mmo?
The solo questers are still playing out in the game world.
Frankly, there was never much non-instanced group content. A few world dragons and pointless lag-generating open PvP was it. Group quests were a major hassle to co-ordinate.
I'd rather have a good chance of actually running some dungeons, than having to spend 10-20 minutes traveling to the entrance while 1 or 2 of the group lose interest and log off.
It's not a perfect solution (and not the method I would have chosen), but (in theory) it does improve the overall game quite a bit.
There was a time when Group quests and Large non-instanced boss raids were the content in MMOs.
Makes me kind of sad that these options can just be thrown out like that.
WoW didn't only have a few dragons, the world encounters were freaking awesome and even better on a pvp server. Group quests were great ways to get to know the community. back before blizzard took most of the elites out of azeroth the game had many memorable moments while adventuring.
This is the end result of blizzard targeting non-mmo gamers. They would rather a dungeon runner game than a real mmo. killing off great features for a slick fast loot round up mechanic sucks imo.
Comments
This.
Your argument is invalid, I've spent all day doing random heroics with a full 5 man of people I already knew.
Sorry to say but chicken little is crying the sky is falling, ONCE AGAIN.
This is awesome in my opinion. No more screaming in global lfg! I love this new system and wish more games did this!
Well, so far, everyone who is currently playing WOW seems to be in favor of this change, so from their perspective its is a great thing.
Remember though the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal. Meaning, while on the surface this change seems terrific, more grouping, better efficiency etc, has to be pure win right?
Maybe. Or maybe not. As a few other posters mentioned, I think the long term effect on the community and player interaction will be tremendous, reducing the game to even less of a virtual world, and more of a multiplayer game than it already was. (The description about Dalaran post patch by another poster was very ominous)
For players not interested in a virtual world this is no big deal of course, they only care about playing the game.
But I think something has been lost here, and now I suspect more games will follow this lead.
Since I haven't tried it, can't be totally sure but I don't think I like this change.
Oh well, I don't play anymore, and now, i probably never will.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sorry for taking only this line from your post, but it is a way of thinking I see a lot.
It is not an option, it is a requirement!
Let me explain why I put it this way. Sure you can still go the old fashioned way. Just like in real life where you can still walk or use a horse to get around, to be able to keep up with those around you...well, it's probably best to take a car instead. You can still ignore this feature, but most around you won't. It will over time change the overall mentality towards groupng. Just like cross server battlegrounds did. Both are gread features for a lot of players and at the same time for some other players they remove too much of the fun.
I am sure that this will stay successfull, it will bring some people back and therefor from Blizzard's point of view it was a great decision. Just don't expect everyone to be happy about it.
...and suddenly I feel like the old man stuck in the past. I wish you lot a lot of fun with the game, for me it's time to look in other directions.
Have fun!
good point... except that there was no way around cross-realm battlegrounds. but i still agree with your point.
this really discourages me from picking WoW back up again. i was thinking about it for the new expansion but... maybe not. we'll see.
Please dont take this thread as a reason not to play WoW again.
This new LFG system only applies for 5 player instances. Everything PvE endgame requires 10 or 25 player instances and those must be with players from your own server....and most people run those with guilds anyways because of the structure and cohesiveness that guilds usually provide.
Furthermore, an example why this new LFG system will succeed is the battlegroup queueing system. Some players had the same reaction when they heard that battlegrounds were going to be cross-realm: Disappointment. However, those same players swallowed their words when their queue time to join a battleground was significantly reduced. In some case, players were waiting hours for a single queue to finally pop. After the changes, that queue time was reduced to less then five minutes. The same thing is happening now.
This change is a good thing and continues to be an example of how Blizzard improves upon and polishes their game.
That is very true.
It comes so fast, I got into another instances seconds after leaving one, I never got time to refill reagents. The only way to go bio is yelling /afk don't pull need bio, inside an instance.
Never before I run exhausted doing 5man, instead of bored waiting for a group. Now, I have no time to craft, or do dailies or harvest. Luckily, I got enough money plowing thru fast heroics, looting and DEing drops, and never once dying. Let alone talk much to guildies. They are too busy themselves. Only way to talk now is guild vent, as I am too busy rinsing dungeons and healing, to type at all on guildchat.
I think alot of peoples problem with this feature is they are making getting the gear more accesable, and that upsets people who seem to think that gear is a measurement of personal status, and not just things on a screen, and are upset that they worked so hard for their gear, and now its just being "given" away.
The fact is you still have to run the instance, and do the same work, minus trying to find a group. and no more need to schedule things with a guild dealing with conflicting schedules, or anything like that.
The people who are upset as I've seen it are the people who want other people to not have gear because they see that as making them better players in some scewed logic. Either that or they think by making it easier to get a group blizzard is somehow taking the true challenge out of the game. please.
These are the same people who probably think the bag space mini game generates real game skill. (don't know what that is? play with just linen bags)
Its a good feature, and its the final nail in ending the days of the "hardcore player" now someone who only has 2 hours to play can log on, and have a blast for two hours, then log off.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
Sorry for taking only this line from your post, but it is a way of thinking I see a lot.
It is not an option, it is a requirement!
Let me explain why I put it this way. Sure you can still go the old fashioned way. Just like in real life where you can still walk or use a horse to get around, to be able to keep up with those around you...well, it's probably best to take a car instead. You can still ignore this feature, but most around you won't. It will over time change the overall mentality towards groupng. Just like cross server battlegrounds did. Both are gread features for a lot of players and at the same time for some other players they remove too much of the fun.
I am sure that this will stay successfull, it will bring some people back and therefor from Blizzard's point of view it was a great decision. Just don't expect everyone to be happy about it.
...and suddenly I feel like the old man stuck in the past. I wish you lot a lot of fun with the game, for me it's time to look in other directions.
Have fun!
good point... except that there was no way around cross-realm battlegrounds. but i still agree with your point.
this really discourages me from picking WoW back up again. i was thinking about it for the new expansion but... maybe not. we'll see.
Please dont take this thread as a reason not to play WoW again.
This new LFG system only applies for 5 player instances. Everything PvE endgame requires 10 or 25 player instances and those must be with players from your own server....and most people run those with guilds anyways because of the structure and cohesiveness that guilds usually provide.
Furthermore, an example why this new LFG system will succeed is the battlegroup queueing system. Some players had the same reaction when they heard that battlegrounds were going to be cross-realm: Disappointment. However, those same players swallowed their words when their queue time to join a battleground was significantly reduced. In some case, players were waiting hours for a single queue to finally pop. After the changes, that queue time was reduced to less then five minutes. The same thing is happening now.
This change is a good thing and continues to be an example of how Blizzard improves upon and polishes their game.
I'm actually really glad you commented on this. People made it sound as though every 5, 10 and 25-man dungeon was going to be effected by the new system. Clearly I should not always listen to random people on forum boards
I have no issues with this new feature. I also wonder if people upset with it are concerned with loot. The only thing I got from the dungeon runs are endless DEed mats. They are ilvl200 stuffs for christ sake. Almost no one use them now, when you can buy ilvl245 gear with badges from running any H dungeon.
Yes I am thinking of making a new 80 and run these for easy ilvl200 gear. But with crusader orbs at 150g and runed orbs practically free, I might as well craft ilvl 226 and 245 gear right upon hitting lvl 80.
Your last paragraph is true. You can log on for 30 minutes finish a PUG and log out. Hell I can run 2 instances during lunch, eating a hotdog or pizza delivery as I heal super easy mode. Spam group heals and HoT the tank, eat something, talk to boss over phone, spam group heal again when it is off CD. Move to next camp of mobs.
May be a dumb question, have not played WoW in quite some time, but is there still 1day lockout on heroics? Someone said they got 5 emblem pieces in one night? Have things changed (lockout, emblem #s, etc) or am I just confused??
If you use the random dungeon feature, no.
There are many types of emblems, right now after 3.3 you can get endless supply of EoT (second highest emblem), one per boss killed in heroics. If you run the random queue, you will be clearing a heroic in as little as 20-30 minutes each, and no downtime to next run, just need to hit the batheroom fast enough while the next dungeon is loading.
Quantify this entire post with this one sentence.
Server LFG has killed guilds? I see people say this a lot. It is your GUILD! I join a guild because I dig the folks and have fun playing the game with THEM...am I the only one that still prefers to run this or that instance WITH MY GUILDMATES? This entire, "They added server-group LFG, I can't ever do shi* with my guild again." mentality is horseshit... You get back what you put in.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Sorry for taking only this line from your post, but it is a way of thinking I see a lot.
It is not an option, it is a requirement!
Let me explain why I put it this way. Sure you can still go the old fashioned way. Just like in real life where you can still walk or use a horse to get around, to be able to keep up with those around you...well, it's probably best to take a car instead. You can still ignore this feature, but most around you won't. It will over time change the overall mentality towards groupng. Just like cross server battlegrounds did. Both are gread features for a lot of players and at the same time for some other players they remove too much of the fun.
I am sure that this will stay successfull, it will bring some people back and therefor from Blizzard's point of view it was a great decision. Just don't expect everyone to be happy about it.
...and suddenly I feel like the old man stuck in the past. I wish you lot a lot of fun with the game, for me it's time to look in other directions.
Have fun!
good point... except that there was no way around cross-realm battlegrounds. but i still agree with your point.
this really discourages me from picking WoW back up again. i was thinking about it for the new expansion but... maybe not. we'll see.
Please dont take this thread as a reason not to play WoW again.
This new LFG system only applies for 5 player instances. Everything PvE endgame requires 10 or 25 player instances and those must be with players from your own server....and most people run those with guilds anyways because of the structure and cohesiveness that guilds usually provide.
Furthermore, an example why this new LFG system will succeed is the battlegroup queueing system. Some players had the same reaction when they heard that battlegrounds were going to be cross-realm: Disappointment. However, those same players swallowed their words when their queue time to join a battleground was significantly reduced. In some case, players were waiting hours for a single queue to finally pop. After the changes, that queue time was reduced to less then five minutes. The same thing is happening now.
This change is a good thing and continues to be an example of how Blizzard improves upon and polishes their game.
I'm actually really glad you commented on this. People made it sound as though every 5, 10 and 25-man dungeon was going to be effected by the new system. Clearly I should not always listen to random people on forum boards
I may be wrong and since I have never been all that much into farming raids (loved raids untill they got to farmstatus, got bored fast after that) it doesn't matter much to me, but I think I can safely say the following: Mark my words, cross server raid LFG is coming soon. The 5man cross server LFG is a success, a lot of players seem to love it, so why would Blizzard not implement this for raiding as well? It will not doom the game, it might even make it more popular than it already is.
Over time this new system will become the standard in which the majority enjoys dungeons, raids today might be too hard for this system, maybe not, but if they are I am sure that as long as the majority uses this system the difficulty will get adjusted to it just like it has been adjusted in the past. A great thing for some, a bad thing for others.
No matter the outcome, wow will remain a quality mmo that a vast amount of players will enjoy. If this change is a good thing or a bad thing depends a lot on personal preference.
I agree with TheHavok on one thing though; never let anything said on a forum be a reason not to play a game, form your own opinion.
I may be wrong and since I have never been all that much into farming raids (loved raids untill they got to farmstatus, got bored fast after that) it doesn't matter much to me, but I think I can safely say the following: Mark my words, cross server raid LFG is coming soon. The 5man cross server LFG is a success, a lot of players seem to love it, so why would Blizzard not implement this for raiding as well? It will not doom the game, it might even make it more popular than it already is.
Over time this new system will become the standard in which the majority enjoys dungeons, raids today might be too hard for this system, maybe not, but if they are I am sure that as long as the majority uses this system the difficulty will get adjusted to it just like it has been adjusted in the past. A great thing for some, a bad thing for others.
No matter the outcome, wow will remain a quality mmo that a vast amount of players will enjoy. If this change is a good thing or a bad thing depends a lot on personal preference.
I agree with TheHavok on one thing though; never let anything said on a forum be a reason not to play a game, form your own opinion.
Cross server raid, cross server AH, or even doing away with server so that you can move around freely, is not really a bad thing. Technically, in terms of coding it is not hard. We can transfer our bank account from branch to branch, our Visa card from one cost centre to another, our bank by phone service system from Texas to Mexico. Why not a game account?
The real issue is game management. The real issue is how the game changes affects game play, from ease of grouping to abuses by ninjas and gold farmers (they surely are looking into this already), to game community, to economy. Cross server AH will give gold farmers enormous boost, just farm in one server and you sell globally over millions of users. It is issues like this that Blizz has to tackle, issues like this I work and solve for clients for a living (hehe personal ad here, but I do not take orders from strangers) punt intended.
I must say, Blizz is a good user of good ideas floating in the market, not necessarily original or new ideas. They are the ones that implement tested technology in places others failed to identify fruitful rooms in. They find the right things to implement, and the right way to enhance their existing product, while SoE screwed up SWG with NGE.
Much like Sony (not SoE) in the 60s to 80s. Phillips invented tape, VCR, ... . Sony created walkman, Discman. Sony becomes the biggest name in the world, Phillips almost went bankrupt.
I tell you what, I really wish the other piece of shit games I played like Vanguard, Warhammer and DDO had implemented this, I probably would still be playing them, instead of wasting money trying to find crawling groups.
To me this is a very good feature and I applaud Blizzard developers for putting it in, no longer is this game set up for the Big wig, eliteist, I have 40 level 80s on each server ass holes.
My least favorite thing about pugging is the waiting around for tank/heals/dps. This cross-server LFG feature is awesome for nearly insta-grouping. It's close to impossible to ninja loot (2nd least favorite thing) and it has all the things one might marvel at in a successful pug. Furthermore, you can LFRaid now too. So if I want to farm ezmode badges in Naxx I can jump into a raid with similarly and suiltably geared toons.
For my army of alts and even my main, this is win.
That's the difference between great game designers and people who "think" they know how to design "concepts".
I still remember the days back in 2006/2007 when on the unoficial official WAR forums the discussion was raging on between "realm" based PvP and clustered BG's (later called scenarios).
All nerds were saying: "no you kill immersion for not knowing your ennemy" so 90% voted non crossed BG's and non crossed PvP.
So War had ... 12 BG's (scenarios) cut up over 4 Tiers on one non clustered server and around 7 open world pvp zones cut up in those same 4 Tiers .... which turned you into a chicken if crossed ...
And so the "immersive" idea won.... and making the game unplayable due to population problems.
Of course War had other problems (unresponsive controls for a PvP game at launch),...
But the above shows "cool" concepts and "cool" definitions (sandbox, immersion, realm etc...) don't mean a THING if you can't link it with .... FUN and gaming pleasure.
And NO ..... sitting on a chair and looking at pixels on a monitor to wait for a group to form for.... hours kills ANY immersive ideas and that's far from "hard" or "challeging". That's just a waste of time in crappy first generation game design.
That's a lesson 80% of mmorpg.com posters will never learn.
I don't agree with you. I don't want to see this feature in any other game then wow. And for the record i love this feature in wow as it is perfect for my way of playing world of warcraft. But to think that it doesn't move wow further away from a world is just stupid. But for me that doesn't matter, i play other games for the 'world' feeling, and wow for dungeoncrawling. Now i don't have to log off if none of my friends are online.
Next step i want to se is one further level of difficulty of the dungeons, normal doesn't exist, we need a new real heroic mode for 5mans like the raids have.
Next great feature in wow will be..
The lazy ass, i mean the gamer will only have to login the game...and press the autoplay button...then he can go sleep, work whatever and the game plays by itself...
At the end of the day check all the exp, gold, epics..look at them and logout...yeahhh easymode at its best..or should i say lazymode
You mean like EVE's skills?
I'm a bit torn apart on this one.
On one hand it's great when you level a new toon. You can actually find groups for DM and even Shadowfang, hell, even Maraudon is possible again. I wouldn't even consider it impossible to find a real (not just farming) group for any of the lv60 raid instances now. Not that I'd want to try, but I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed playing them, not farm them which is pretty much the only way today to see BWL or BRD from the inside. Which is a shame, they're amongst the most beautiful ones.
On the other hand... is it me or does this actually make "old school" groups less attractive? I mean, I could get a PUG any time and be instaported into the instance, while in a normal style group I still have to ride there (or rather, at least 2 people have to)? Is it me or is that a bit odd, to actually penalize those that have a fixed group to play with?
Also, I'd guess the community will suffer. From two things mainly. First, I don't think you will really form the kind of friendships anymore that you did when you normally leveled. You met someone and if he was nice, helpful and could play, you'd tack him to your friend list. And unless you leveled at a vastly different pace, you could check on him every time you needed someone for an instance and if he's there, you would team again, thus creating some sort of social network. Even in a smaller guild you could relatively easy find a group if you happen to be reliable and not a (insert profanity here), because someone in a raiding guild might know you and consider you as an option akin to "well, better than any random idiot or an empty slot" for their 25 raid if one of their members didn't show up.
Now, these networks won't exist anymore. You are dumped into a group with four other random people. People you will never see again, most likely, which opens up another box made by Mrs. Pandora: Being a ... not so nice person has no drawbacks anymore. You can be as much of a moron as you please, you can play like a complete idiot, you can needroll anything (at least if you can) and get away with it. You can join a multi-boss instance and quit after the first boss if he dropped what you came in for. And it will never come back to bite you in the rear. Yeah, you might be on the /ignore list of these 4 people now. But there are thousands more that will never hear about it and the pool of people to play with does not shrink.
I think it's a great feature up to level 80 (with a few drawbacks that probably won't affect many people other than me). It's a horrible one afterwards when the "real" rewards are harvested.
I was reading all of these comments and I have to say this:
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT
I'm sorry for shouting, but I had let it out of me.
The point is not if WOW is good or bad. The point is not if WOW is better or worse with these cross-server lfg option. The point is this: is WOW a MMORPG or a multiplayer game.
Why should this be important? Isn't the only thing that is important if the players have fun or not?
I will try to explain it to you with this a little bit crazy thought exeperiment:
You all know Modern Warfare 1 and 2. It's a great and very successful FPS. Now let's imagine that the producers of the game would want to make the 3rd part even better and so they put some third person sword fighting and magic spell casting into the game. Because of that the 3rd part becomes even more successful. Because of the success they make Modern Warfare 4 entirely a third person game with sword fighting and magic spell casting. But they still market it as FPS. And because Modern Warfare is so heavily dominating the market other FPS are following this trend. Then a group off original FPS players starts to protest that these games aren't FPS anymore. And they get attacked by the new FPS players:
- you are oldschool FPS players, you live in the past, get over it
- this is how FPS are meant to be played
- if you don't like FPS games, go play some other games
- in the past FPS were for the geeks and nerds, now they are really games for the gamers
This is what's happened to MMORPG. Saying that doing instances and raiding is MMORPG is like saying that third person sword fighting and magic spell casting is FPS.
And why the hell wouldn't it be?
WoW is an MMORPG. I can go to Dalaran and see hundreds of people in 1 tiny area, clearly massive, and multiplayer, thus defining this concept.
It is just as MMORPG, if not infinitely moreso, than guild wars, an MMORPG (of sorts) that plays almost entirely instanced. The classification of MMORPG is not how many people play simultaneously in one dungeon fighting over the same loot spawn(s) as a line for a specific item drop gets ever-longer.
It's about a number of people coming onto 1 server and being able to interract with each other.
The game still has massive social bonds even with the dungeon finder. You can't argue that instant 5 mans are killing the game, I was doing that anyways when I hit 80. Almost endless hours in LFG trying to find people to take me on X heroic farming run etc.
Now, I go into guild chat and say "Anyone for a random heroic?", grab 4 people, maybe less, and off to some random dungeon we go.
The only difference this system offers over the old method is, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO FLY THERE AND SUMMON THE LAZY ONES. Nevermind that the random dungeon system doesn't have negative connotations like "Hey, anyone for Heroic Oc?" A lot of people have more reservations about specific dungeons, or flying there. Now there's a simple button to expedite groups of friends or just solo players into doing what they want to do, which is run heroics for fun and profit.
I see dungeons queueing a lot faster now, with people doing dungeons more, using the LFG tool to find more players. It's no longer bottlenecking due to a poor interface, causing people like me to just want to log off for lack of having people to readily group with.
Raids use this tool, of all things, to find puggers when necessary. It's rather amazing. There's much more incentive to find communities, and group up. The only real complaint I have is, I can't later regroup with people I enjoyed grouping with from other servers to bring to another dungeon after we split the group.
More games could stand to have a system like this if they are A) Instanced and
group-centric, especially for progression. And more importantly, when you consider the only thing this system does is I) Eliminate the spamming in trade/LFG or perusing through the oft-unused LFG interface, and II) travel time to the instance.
I still group with friends, though I go solo if no one's interested in a specific dungeon I wish to do. I still see the massively multiplayer, as I often get a completely different group of people each time I hit a new instance. Friendships are made in single runs in some cases, and overall, enjoyment of the game has just gone up.
It is a good system that perfectly complements WoW, and any game that would likewise use a lot of instanced groups to get much done, such as DDO, GW, etc. It's not morphing the game into something it's not, like your false analogy in your post clearly is, where you change an obvious FPS into an obvious RPG. No, it's just taking an RPG and bringing the gameplay closer to the players, faster, not turning it into some halo wannabe. It's actually fun wanting to gear my character, and being able to press a single button, or ask guild chat for others to group with, and pressing a single button, to get whisked away to have some actual fun, instead of sitting in trade chat wondering if anyone will PST me.
It does feel like Blizzard turned WoW into Diablo with a chat hub and people zoning into dungeons. Kinda reminds me of PSO.
The fact that people are eating this up and completely ignoring players on their own server prove that these players aren't mmo gamers.
If all you wanted was dungeon runner online why bother playing a mmo?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
And why the hell wouldn't it be?
WoW is an MMORPG. I can go to Dalaran and see hundreds of people in 1 tiny area, clearly massive, and multiplayer, thus defining this concept.
It is just as MMORPG, if not infinitely moreso, than guild wars, an MMORPG (of sorts) that plays almost entirely instanced. The classification of MMORPG is not how many people play simultaneously in one dungeon fighting over the same loot spawn(s) as a line for a specific item drop gets ever-longer.
It's about a number of people coming onto 1 server and being able to interract with each other.
The game still has massive social bonds even with the dungeon finder. You can't argue that instant 5 mans are killing the game, I was doing that anyways when I hit 80. Almost endless hours in LFG trying to find people to take me on X heroic farming run etc.
Now, I go into guild chat and say "Anyone for a random heroic?", grab 4 people, maybe less, and off to some random dungeon we go.
The only difference this system offers over the old method is, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO FLY THERE AND SUMMON THE LAZY ONES. Nevermind that the random dungeon system doesn't have negative connotations like "Hey, anyone for Heroic Oc?" A lot of people have more reservations about specific dungeons, or flying there. Now there's a simple button to expedite groups of friends or just solo players into doing what they want to do, which is run heroics for fun and profit.
I see dungeons queueing a lot faster now, with people doing dungeons more, using the LFG tool to find more players. It's no longer bottlenecking due to a poor interface, causing people like me to just want to log off for lack of having people to readily group with.
Raids use this tool, of all things, to find puggers when necessary. It's rather amazing. There's much more incentive to find communities, and group up. The only real complaint I have is, I can't later regroup with people I enjoyed grouping with from other servers to bring to another dungeon after we split the group.
More games could stand to have a system like this if they are A) Instanced and
group-centric, especially for progression. And more importantly, when you consider the only thing this system does is I) Eliminate the spamming in trade/LFG or perusing through the oft-unused LFG interface, and II) travel time to the instance.
I still group with friends, though I go solo if no one's interested in a specific dungeon I wish to do. I still see the massively multiplayer, as I often get a completely different group of people each time I hit a new instance. Friendships are made in single runs in some cases, and overall, enjoyment of the game has just gone up.
It is a good system that perfectly complements WoW, and any game that would likewise use a lot of instanced groups to get much done, such as DDO, GW, etc. It's not morphing the game into something it's not, like your false analogy in your post clearly is, where you change an obvious FPS into an obvious RPG. No, it's just taking an RPG and bringing the gameplay closer to the players, faster, not turning it into some halo wannabe. It's actually fun wanting to gear my character, and being able to press a single button, or ask guild chat for others to group with, and pressing a single button, to get whisked away to have some actual fun, instead of sitting in trade chat wondering if anyone will PST me.
You just compared WoW to GW and DDO. You realize that most people dont consider GW/DDO mmos?
With this system WoW currently doesn't even need a game world.
I used to troll wow players on this board by saying Blizzard could put all players in one room and have the game be nothing but portals. I would get alot of heat for it.
Now this patch proved me right lol!
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The solo questers are still playing out in the game world.
Frankly, there was never much non-instanced group content. A few world dragons and pointless lag-generating open PvP was it. Group quests were a major hassle to co-ordinate.
I'd rather have a good chance of actually running some dungeons, than having to spend 10-20 minutes traveling to the entrance while 1 or 2 of the group lose interest and log off.
It's not a perfect solution (and not the method I would have chosen), but (in theory) it does improve the overall game quite a bit.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The solo questers are still playing out in the game world.
Frankly, there was never much non-instanced group content. A few world dragons and pointless lag-generating open PvP was it. Group quests were a major hassle to co-ordinate.
I'd rather have a good chance of actually running some dungeons, than having to spend 10-20 minutes traveling to the entrance while 1 or 2 of the group lose interest and log off.
It's not a perfect solution (and not the method I would have chosen), but (in theory) it does improve the overall game quite a bit.
There was a time when Group quests and Large non-instanced boss raids were the content in MMOs.
Makes me kind of sad that these options can just be thrown out like that.
WoW didn't only have a few dragons, the world encounters were freaking awesome and even better on a pvp server. Group quests were great ways to get to know the community. back before blizzard took most of the elites out of azeroth the game had many memorable moments while adventuring.
This is the end result of blizzard targeting non-mmo gamers. They would rather a dungeon runner game than a real mmo. killing off great features for a slick fast loot round up mechanic sucks imo.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum