While I think there's a bit of hyperbole (or at least an emotional appeal with the example) on the bit of the OP, there's a smidgen of truth here. If your sole goal in WoW is to run instances, then WoW is more Diablo-esque with the new feature. I won't argue whether the feature is good or bad, personally I for the change, but there is a slight shift in how players will interact with the server community.
What I don't disagree with is the analogy itself. Blizzard hasn't fundamentally changed the game as SOE did with SWG.
I was reading all of these comments and I have to say this: YOU DON'T GET THE POINT I'm sorry for shouting, but I had let it out of me.
The point is not if WOW is good or bad. The point is not if WOW is better or worse with these cross-server lfg option. The point is this: is WOW a MMORPG or a multiplayer game.
Why should this be important? Isn't the only thing that is important if the players have fun or not?
I will try to explain it to you with this a little bit crazy thought exeperiment: You all know Modern Warfare 1 and 2. It's a great and very successful FPS. Now let's imagine that the producers of the game would want to make the 3rd part even better and so they put some third person sword fighting and magic spell casting into the game. Because of that the 3rd part becomes even more successful. Because of the success they make Modern Warfare 4 entirely a third person game with sword fighting and magic spell casting. But they still market it as FPS. And because Modern Warfare is so heavily dominating the market other FPS are following this trend. Then a group off original FPS players starts to protest that these games aren't FPS anymore. And they get attacked by the new FPS players:
- you are oldschool FPS players, you live in the past, get over it
- this is how FPS are meant to be played
- if you don't like FPS games, go play some other games
- in the past FPS were for the geeks and nerds, now they are really games for the gamers
This is what's happened to MMORPG. Saying that doing instances and raiding is MMORPG is like saying that third person sword fighting and magic spell casting is FPS.
Seriously? With all the cross-genre games coming out? FPS with huge RPG elements? RPGs with massive FPS elements? They are practically the same genre already. Maybe that is your point. I like both genres, so I really don't see a problem here.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Also, I'd guess the community will suffer. From two things mainly. First, I don't think you will really form the kind of friendships anymore that you did when you normally leveled. You met someone and if he was nice, helpful and could play, you'd tack him to your friend list. And unless you leveled at a vastly different pace, you could check on him every time you needed someone for an instance and if he's there, you would team again, thus creating some sort of social network. Even in a smaller guild you could relatively easy find a group if you happen to be reliable and not a (insert profanity here), because someone in a raiding guild might know you and consider you as an option akin to "well, better than any random idiot or an empty slot" for their 25 raid if one of their members didn't show up. I've actually put more people from my server on my friends list in the past 3 days than the past 3 months because of this new feature. The feature is getting players to group who would normally prefer to solo. Is that not awesome? Now, these networks won't exist anymore. You are dumped into a group with four other random people. People you will never see again, most likely, which opens up another box made by Mrs. Pandora: Being a ... not so nice person has no drawbacks anymore. You can be as much of a moron as you please, you can play like a complete idiot, you can needroll anything (at least if you can) and get away with it. You can join a multi-boss instance and quit after the first boss if he dropped what you came in for. And it will never come back to bite you in the rear. Yeah, you might be on the /ignore list of these 4 people now. But there are thousands more that will never hear about it and the pool of people to play with does not shrink. I think it's a great feature up to level 80 (with a few drawbacks that probably won't affect many people other than me). It's a horrible one afterwards when the "real" rewards are harvested. Bleh, the meat of the game is from 1-80 in my opinion. Endgame is for players who are in a hurry to widen the gap between themselves and the community for self-esteem. Also, players have been dodging reputation hits since they have been able to transfer servers and change their names. This is nothing new.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
While I think there's a bit of hyperbole (or at least an emotional appeal with the example) on the bit of the OP, there's a smidgen of truth here. If your sole goal in WoW is to run instances, then WoW is more Diablo-esque with the new feature. I won't argue whether the feature is good or bad, personally I for the change, but there is a slight shift in how players will interact with the server community.
What I don't disagree with is the analogy itself. Blizzard hasn't fundamentally changed the game as SOE did with SWG.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
I personally think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure that its the popular vote. DDO had a city hub / dungeon instancing style since it was launched and that game isn't all that popular. WAR was claimed to be nothing more than an instanced BG since no one RvR'd in the realms much. While I admit, this looks good now for getting gear, in the end, what population we had in world zones is going to diminish even further. WoW is going the way of instancing and insta teleport to what you want to do. People will just sit in major cities waiting for BG and Dungeon queues cause theres no reason to go anywhere other than to gather resources maybe. Not that it's any different now, but this is just putting a nail in the coffin of fun factor for WoW. This feature will be the bomb for about 3-6 months and then not so much.
Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server.
Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game.
If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold.
They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
While I think there's a bit of hyperbole (or at least an emotional appeal with the example) on the bit of the OP, there's a smidgen of truth here. If your sole goal in WoW is to run instances, then WoW is more Diablo-esque with the new feature. I won't argue whether the feature is good or bad, personally I for the change, but there is a slight shift in how players will interact with the server community.
What I don't disagree with is the analogy itself. Blizzard hasn't fundamentally changed the game as SOE did with SWG.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
You know that not everyone feels this way right? There are still many many players who couldn't care less about gear or endgame. And I'd be willing to bet that these are the players who are benefiting most from this new option. The ones who have wanted to group and make friends but were unable due to time constraints and what not. Besides, the uber leet raiders will not even use this feature in fear of getting a newb or a scrub in thier raid.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
While I think there's a bit of hyperbole (or at least an emotional appeal with the example) on the bit of the OP, there's a smidgen of truth here. If your sole goal in WoW is to run instances, then WoW is more Diablo-esque with the new feature. I won't argue whether the feature is good or bad, personally I for the change, but there is a slight shift in how players will interact with the server community.
What I don't disagree with is the analogy itself. Blizzard hasn't fundamentally changed the game as SOE did with SWG.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
Like I said ... for those players whose sole activity is raiding, then the tool makes WoW more diablo-esque. I'd argue that the new feature further enables those players, and really nothing has significantly changed for them.
The above is not true for everyone, as watching your ship mine isn't true for everyone playing Eve.
Originally posted by metalhead980 It does feel like Blizzard turned WoW into Diablo with a chat hub and people zoning into dungeons. Kinda reminds me of PSO. The fact that people are eating this up and completely ignoring players on their own server prove that these players aren't mmo gamers. If all you wanted was dungeon runner online why bother playing a mmo?
You still seem to be laboring under the impression that you are what defines an mmo player.
Have you ever considered that the genre has evolved and you are just becoming that bitter old man who yells at all the kids to stay off his lawn?
People like running dungeons, this tool makes that possible in many situations where is wasn't. Your absurd conclusion that if people like to run dungeons that is all they are capable of doing and the rest of the game is wasted is just plain stupid. This doesn't remove the rest of the game and I'm sure people would be plenty upset if it were removed as you suggest in another post. Hyperbole doesn't validate your opinions.
You are not some sort of mmo heiristocracy. Like it or not, people who pay a fee and log into mmos are indeed mmo players. Just because they don't mindlessly follow what you think a game should be doesn't make them any less of mmo players than you think you are.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server. Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game. If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold. They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
Just when I thought WoW couldnt get anymore more bland...it just did lol. So if I return I have standing around in cities in ques to look forward to? I predict I'd be bored of BGs and dungeons in about 2 weeks.
I think Blizzard seriously needs to come out with another MMO before their reputation is totally screwed....lol
While I think there's a bit of hyperbole (or at least an emotional appeal with the example) on the bit of the OP, there's a smidgen of truth here. If your sole goal in WoW is to run instances, then WoW is more Diablo-esque with the new feature. I won't argue whether the feature is good or bad, personally I for the change, but there is a slight shift in how players will interact with the server community.
What I don't disagree with is the analogy itself. Blizzard hasn't fundamentally changed the game as SOE did with SWG.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
You know that not everyone feels this way right? There are still many many players who couldn't care less about gear or endgame. And I'd be willing to bet that these are the players who are benefiting most from this new option. The ones who have wanted to group and make friends but were unable due to time constraints and what not. Besides, the uber leet raiders will not even use this feature in fear of getting a newb or a scrub in thier raid.
I honestly wish that WoW actually offered something other than item farming.
I've been playing MMOs for so long and this is the only game that makes me regret ever playing it.
WoW offers a limited character progression system through itemization only, expansions and patches that add to the game only to take away and make content worthless, no sense of community due cross server functions, no world pvp, worthless crafting.
Seriously you cant even be proud of your character achievements since everything is wiped clean every patch.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server. Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game. If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold. They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
I wasn't speaking of leveling, I actually like leveling in WoW. well before blizzard removed the elites.
I'm speaking of endgame only, you know the "real" game.
Edit: Oh as for wintergrasp, it lags so much they might as well just instance that also. I swear blizzard is just trying to save money with thier lame sever tech, you could hardly siege a city in WoW without killing the server. Wheres all that money going to? the next mmo?
I just noticed that the whole thing doesn't solve a thing. I'm currently sitting here with my mage waiting for a group.
Guess what? 3 DDs are waiting for a group, what's missing? Bingo. Tank and Healer. Just like always.
I think I just noticed the fallacy. At first, it looked like a good tool to find groups because the usually lacking classes (i.e. tank and healer) should be easier to get with tanks and healers from many servers being added to the fold. What we forgot was that the DDs from those servers were also added. So unless there was a huge surplus of tanks and healers on other servers, I doubt that a lot will change for mine.
*sigh* I don't wanna be tank again, it's getting boring to play the same class over and over.
Originally posted by metalhead980 It does feel like Blizzard turned WoW into Diablo with a chat hub and people zoning into dungeons. Kinda reminds me of PSO. The fact that people are eating this up and completely ignoring players on their own server prove that these players aren't mmo gamers. If all you wanted was dungeon runner online why bother playing a mmo?
Have you ever considered that the genre has evolved and you are just becoming that bitter old man who yells at all the kids to stay off his lawn?
You call sitting in a major city while in a pvp or dungeon queue over and over and over and over Evolution of the genre?
I call that Diablo, PSO and Guildwars. Games released 5-10+ years ago.
WHat happened to wanting these games to be worlds and not just chat and city hubs?
I guess now that WoW is doing it its evolved the genre?
I swear Blizzard could do no wrong in your eyes as long as they keep feeding you new epics every few months.
SOE changed SWG in a way that the players for the most part didn't want. And Bliz just did a change to the game that the players for the most part did like. Not only that, but the changes each did are not at all the same. SOE changed a lot of the basic game, and almost created something new. Bliz just added a matchmaking system to the game without changing game mechanics or the world in and major ways.
SOE changed SWG in a way that the players for the most part didn't want. And Bliz just did a change to the game that the players for the most part did like. Not only that, but the changes each did are not at all the same. SOE changed a lot of the basic game, and almost created something new. Bliz just added a matchmaking system to the game without changing game mechanics or the world in and major ways.
They have changed other areas of the game and plan to change more.
They will just take a year or more to do what SOE did "overnight"... and they are giving us plenty of warning.
SOE changed SWG in a way that the players for the most part didn't want. And Bliz just did a change to the game that the players for the most part did like. Not only that, but the changes each did are not at all the same. SOE changed a lot of the basic game, and almost created something new. Bliz just added a matchmaking system to the game without changing game mechanics or the world in and major ways.
They have changed other areas of the game and plan to change more.
They will just take a year or more to do what SOE did "overnight"... and they are giving us plenty of warning.
"Cataclysm" indeed!
Yeah I do agree that Cataclysim will change a lot with the changes to the main continents. And I do think that being able to fly everywhere will hurt the feel that they used to have. I just remember the feeling while lvling up and thinking that the world was so big, and I don't see that feeling being around anymore with the ability to fly. Sadly flying is what most people want, because they don't care about the feeling the game world provokes as much as they care about instant gratification of getting someplace quickly to do their quest or dungeon.
Only think I would really like to see in Cataclysim is how the world changes, like the flooding of thousand needles. I doubt I will resub to the game to check it though, might just look for pictures after its released.
I personally think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure that its the popular vote. DDO had a city hub / dungeon instancing style since it was launched and that game isn't all that popular. WAR was claimed to be nothing more than an instanced BG since no one RvR'd in the realms much. While I admit, this looks good now for getting gear, in the end, what population we had in world zones is going to diminish even further. WoW is going the way of instancing and insta teleport to what you want to do. People will just sit in major cities waiting for BG and Dungeon queues cause theres no reason to go anywhere other than to gather resources maybe. Not that it's any different now, but this is just putting a nail in the coffin of fun factor for WoW. This feature will be the bomb for about 3-6 months and then not so much.
Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server.
Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game.
If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold.
They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
Well said and I couldn't agree more. Log in , set yourself up for an instance, get new weapon with +10 more on your favorite attribute, log out. Just not a fun game anymore. Bring back the old school 40 mans and put more difficulty into all aspects of the game. Bring back the original Alterac Valley (2 hour fights!) and add BG rankings again!
Classifying this as an SOE blunder is an insult to all the hard work SOE did to screw over the SWG vets. At any point, nice to see Blizzard back on the bandwagon stealing ideas again, Lotro's skirmish system anyone?
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server. Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game. If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold. They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
I wasn't speaking of leveling, I actually like leveling in WoW. well before blizzard removed the elites.
I'm speaking of endgame only, you know the "real" game.
Edit: Oh as for wintergrasp, it lags so much they might as well just instance that also. I swear blizzard is just trying to save money with thier lame sever tech, you could hardly siege a city in WoW without killing the server. Wheres all that money going to? the next mmo?
I know what you mean then, though I don't really know how they could motivate us to run outside of the cities... The main purpose of these zones is to level, along with some quest hubs for dailies and maybe to get to an instance. Also once Cataclysm is out, Dalaran will become an empty capital, like Shattrath is today.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server. Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game. If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold. They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
I wasn't speaking of leveling, I actually like leveling in WoW. well before blizzard removed the elites.
I'm speaking of endgame only, you know the "real" game.
Edit: Oh as for wintergrasp, it lags so much they might as well just instance that also. I swear blizzard is just trying to save money with thier lame sever tech, you could hardly siege a city in WoW without killing the server. Wheres all that money going to? the next mmo?
I know what you mean then, though I don't really know how they could motivate us to run outside of the cities... The main purpose of these zones is to level, along with some quest hubs for dailies and maybe to get to an instance. Also once Cataclysm is out, Dalaran will become an empty capital, like Shattrath is today.
They used to have reasons to leave. Like world pvp objectives,world bosses, faction hubs that promoted group play (silithus), actually needing to travel to a dungeon and battleground portal.
People still use the world for gathering and dailies but one has to ask himself when will that end? what if this cross server streamlining isnt enough what if you just go into portals to gather? what if the quest hubs are instanced? They seem to be streamlining everything.
Will WoW even be an MMO in a couple years or just a dungeon and instance pvp mini-game runner?
Originally posted by metalhead980 They used to have reasons to leave. Like world pvp objectives,world bosses, faction hubs that promoted group play (silithus), actually needing to travel to a dungeon and battleground portal. People still use the world for gathering and dailies but one has to ask himself when will that end? what if this cross server streamlining isnt enough what if you just go into portals to gather? what if the quest hubs are instanced? They seem to be streamlining everything. Will WoW even be an MMO in a couple years or just a dungeon and instance pvp mini-game runner?
Good points, let's see...
World PVP objectives
In order to make it popular, you have to give some incentives. Otherwise, experience shows it quickly becomes ignored by most players. For example, Silithus, EPL towers in Vanilla were pretty much ignored. In BC, the only zone that really saw any PVP action was Terokkar Forest, because it gave a nice bonus to the instance hub. The devs learnt from it: Wintersgrasp gives a very nice bonus to the whole continent, and unlocks a very rewarding instance.
World Bosses
This is a missing part in WotLK. There are none. BC had 2 (Kazzak, Doomwalker). I don't really know why, but maybe it was because of dramas? Server loads? It could be fun to have it to come back.
Faction Hubs and Group Play
Except the 2 or 3 group quests per zone, I think it could be enhanced as well. Giving some group chain quests for example, or a specific zone full of elite mobs that require a group to quest through.
Travel Time
I think that's because that's what their suggestion box is filled with. I remember when the game came out, my roommate (he never played) saw me playing for a while, and then said "It looks like all you do is flying or walking, you're never fighting.."
Well he was true. At first, you had 1 quest hub per zone, and you always had to run back and forth to get to the next step or empty your bags. Then you had those quests that asked you to get to a very far away zone, and just 'getting' to that zone would take half an hour. I mean, really half an hour, not 'it feels like half an hour', just to get to that point. Maybe for the explorer type of person, this could be appealing, but I'm certain Blizzard's suggestion box or commentaries were filled with complaints about the time wasted into travelling. Those complaints were certainly just not from the 'casuals', but from the 'hardcore raiders' that had to get to their dungeons as well as the PVP'ers that had to get to the Battleground portals in order to queue.
Now here, I'm not suggesting World of Warcraft should turn into instance hubs. I like exploring myself. There cant be one uncovered area in any of my maps. And I agree there should be a little more action in the world (World Boss, zones for groups, the return of the elite mobs). Though I can see and I agree with their idea of improving the accessibility to dungeons and battlegrounds through portals from capital cities.
I like the new lfg system. If I am done questing for the day and I can't find a full guild group it is an easy way to knock out a few dungeons. Surprisingly for me I have actually had more conversations in the cross server groups than my own server pugs.
Comments
While I think there's a bit of hyperbole (or at least an emotional appeal with the example) on the bit of the OP, there's a smidgen of truth here. If your sole goal in WoW is to run instances, then WoW is more Diablo-esque with the new feature. I won't argue whether the feature is good or bad, personally I for the change, but there is a slight shift in how players will interact with the server community.
What I don't disagree with is the analogy itself. Blizzard hasn't fundamentally changed the game as SOE did with SWG.
Seriously? With all the cross-genre games coming out? FPS with huge RPG elements? RPGs with massive FPS elements? They are practically the same genre already. Maybe that is your point. I like both genres, so I really don't see a problem here.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server.
Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game.
If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold.
They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
You know that not everyone feels this way right? There are still many many players who couldn't care less about gear or endgame. And I'd be willing to bet that these are the players who are benefiting most from this new option. The ones who have wanted to group and make friends but were unable due to time constraints and what not. Besides, the uber leet raiders will not even use this feature in fear of getting a newb or a scrub in thier raid.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
Like I said ... for those players whose sole activity is raiding, then the tool makes WoW more diablo-esque. I'd argue that the new feature further enables those players, and really nothing has significantly changed for them.
The above is not true for everyone, as watching your ship mine isn't true for everyone playing Eve.
You still seem to be laboring under the impression that you are what defines an mmo player.
Have you ever considered that the genre has evolved and you are just becoming that bitter old man who yells at all the kids to stay off his lawn?
People like running dungeons, this tool makes that possible in many situations where is wasn't. Your absurd conclusion that if people like to run dungeons that is all they are capable of doing and the rest of the game is wasted is just plain stupid. This doesn't remove the rest of the game and I'm sure people would be plenty upset if it were removed as you suggest in another post. Hyperbole doesn't validate your opinions.
You are not some sort of mmo heiristocracy. Like it or not, people who pay a fee and log into mmos are indeed mmo players. Just because they don't mindlessly follow what you think a game should be doesn't make them any less of mmo players than you think you are.
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
Just when I thought WoW couldnt get anymore more bland...it just did lol. So if I return I have standing around in cities in ques to look forward to? I predict I'd be bored of BGs and dungeons in about 2 weeks.
I think Blizzard seriously needs to come out with another MMO before their reputation is totally screwed....lol
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
Now if they will just UNDO cross-server battlegrounds things will be good.
What do you think most people that play WoW are doing? The endgame revolves around instance raids and instance pvp.
Both are now done through cross server queues.
It's not like Blizzard gives tons of gameplay options outside those two feature sets.
WoW is about gear, where do you get the gear? Instanced dungeons, pvp.
Might as well call this a diablo mmo and change the setting.
Seriously take away repair bills and WoWs world wouldnt even be needed.
You know that not everyone feels this way right? There are still many many players who couldn't care less about gear or endgame. And I'd be willing to bet that these are the players who are benefiting most from this new option. The ones who have wanted to group and make friends but were unable due to time constraints and what not. Besides, the uber leet raiders will not even use this feature in fear of getting a newb or a scrub in thier raid.
I honestly wish that WoW actually offered something other than item farming.
I've been playing MMOs for so long and this is the only game that makes me regret ever playing it.
WoW offers a limited character progression system through itemization only, expansions and patches that add to the game only to take away and make content worthless, no sense of community due cross server functions, no world pvp, worthless crafting.
Seriously you cant even be proud of your character achievements since everything is wiped clean every patch.
Maybe the expansion will fix this but I doubt it.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
I wasn't speaking of leveling, I actually like leveling in WoW. well before blizzard removed the elites.
I'm speaking of endgame only, you know the "real" game.
Edit: Oh as for wintergrasp, it lags so much they might as well just instance that also. I swear blizzard is just trying to save money with thier lame sever tech, you could hardly siege a city in WoW without killing the server. Wheres all that money going to? the next mmo?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I just noticed that the whole thing doesn't solve a thing. I'm currently sitting here with my mage waiting for a group.
Guess what? 3 DDs are waiting for a group, what's missing? Bingo. Tank and Healer. Just like always.
I think I just noticed the fallacy. At first, it looked like a good tool to find groups because the usually lacking classes (i.e. tank and healer) should be easier to get with tanks and healers from many servers being added to the fold. What we forgot was that the DDs from those servers were also added. So unless there was a huge surplus of tanks and healers on other servers, I doubt that a lot will change for mine.
*sigh* I don't wanna be tank again, it's getting boring to play the same class over and over.
Have you ever considered that the genre has evolved and you are just becoming that bitter old man who yells at all the kids to stay off his lawn?
You call sitting in a major city while in a pvp or dungeon queue over and over and over and over Evolution of the genre?
I call that Diablo, PSO and Guildwars. Games released 5-10+ years ago.
WHat happened to wanting these games to be worlds and not just chat and city hubs?
I guess now that WoW is doing it its evolved the genre?
I swear Blizzard could do no wrong in your eyes as long as they keep feeding you new epics every few months.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
SOE changed SWG in a way that the players for the most part didn't want. And Bliz just did a change to the game that the players for the most part did like. Not only that, but the changes each did are not at all the same. SOE changed a lot of the basic game, and almost created something new. Bliz just added a matchmaking system to the game without changing game mechanics or the world in and major ways.
They have changed other areas of the game and plan to change more.
They will just take a year or more to do what SOE did "overnight"... and they are giving us plenty of warning.
"Cataclysm" indeed!
------- END TRANSMISSION
They have changed other areas of the game and plan to change more.
They will just take a year or more to do what SOE did "overnight"... and they are giving us plenty of warning.
"Cataclysm" indeed!
Yeah I do agree that Cataclysim will change a lot with the changes to the main continents. And I do think that being able to fly everywhere will hurt the feel that they used to have. I just remember the feeling while lvling up and thinking that the world was so big, and I don't see that feeling being around anymore with the ability to fly. Sadly flying is what most people want, because they don't care about the feeling the game world provokes as much as they care about instant gratification of getting someplace quickly to do their quest or dungeon.
Only think I would really like to see in Cataclysim is how the world changes, like the flooding of thousand needles. I doubt I will resub to the game to check it though, might just look for pictures after its released.
Heh played WoW much recently? this is how it was even before lfg cross server.
Standing in a city waiting on queues is what you do in this game.
If they got rid of armor repairs people would need to run dailies or gather for gold.
They could just delete Azeroth and no one would notice.
Well said and I couldn't agree more. Log in , set yourself up for an instance, get new weapon with +10 more on your favorite attribute, log out. Just not a fun game anymore. Bring back the old school 40 mans and put more difficulty into all aspects of the game. Bring back the original Alterac Valley (2 hour fights!) and add BG rankings again!
Classifying this as an SOE blunder is an insult to all the hard work SOE did to screw over the SWG vets. At any point, nice to see Blizzard back on the bandwagon stealing ideas again, Lotro's skirmish system anyone?
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
I wasn't speaking of leveling, I actually like leveling in WoW. well before blizzard removed the elites.
I'm speaking of endgame only, you know the "real" game.
Edit: Oh as for wintergrasp, it lags so much they might as well just instance that also. I swear blizzard is just trying to save money with thier lame sever tech, you could hardly siege a city in WoW without killing the server. Wheres all that money going to? the next mmo?
I know what you mean then, though I don't really know how they could motivate us to run outside of the cities... The main purpose of these zones is to level, along with some quest hubs for dailies and maybe to get to an instance. Also once Cataclysm is out, Dalaran will become an empty capital, like Shattrath is today.
Maybe you do, but I know a lot of players that are still enjoying to level. If you look at some websites like warcraftrealms.com, you notice that between 45 and 50% of the active players are levelling (alts, casual players or new players).
This number will go up with Cataclysm when Blizzard revamps a lot of the old zones.
World PVP isn't really popular outside of Wintersgrasp, but I think the players are enjoying Battlegrounds / Arena / Wintersgrasp a lot more than open PVP (plus it's a lot more rewarding). So even on PVP servers, a huge majority of players outside of cities are only doing their quests.
I wasn't speaking of leveling, I actually like leveling in WoW. well before blizzard removed the elites.
I'm speaking of endgame only, you know the "real" game.
Edit: Oh as for wintergrasp, it lags so much they might as well just instance that also. I swear blizzard is just trying to save money with thier lame sever tech, you could hardly siege a city in WoW without killing the server. Wheres all that money going to? the next mmo?
I know what you mean then, though I don't really know how they could motivate us to run outside of the cities... The main purpose of these zones is to level, along with some quest hubs for dailies and maybe to get to an instance. Also once Cataclysm is out, Dalaran will become an empty capital, like Shattrath is today.
They used to have reasons to leave. Like world pvp objectives,world bosses, faction hubs that promoted group play (silithus), actually needing to travel to a dungeon and battleground portal.
People still use the world for gathering and dailies but one has to ask himself when will that end? what if this cross server streamlining isnt enough what if you just go into portals to gather? what if the quest hubs are instanced? They seem to be streamlining everything.
Will WoW even be an MMO in a couple years or just a dungeon and instance pvp mini-game runner?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I find the topic of this thread misleading.....
SOE did something completly different to SWG then WoW adding in cross server LFG
Did you just add the SOE thing in there to get replies?
I play all ghame
Good points, let's see...
World PVP objectives
In order to make it popular, you have to give some incentives. Otherwise, experience shows it quickly becomes ignored by most players. For example, Silithus, EPL towers in Vanilla were pretty much ignored. In BC, the only zone that really saw any PVP action was Terokkar Forest, because it gave a nice bonus to the instance hub. The devs learnt from it: Wintersgrasp gives a very nice bonus to the whole continent, and unlocks a very rewarding instance.
World Bosses
This is a missing part in WotLK. There are none. BC had 2 (Kazzak, Doomwalker). I don't really know why, but maybe it was because of dramas? Server loads? It could be fun to have it to come back.
Faction Hubs and Group Play
Except the 2 or 3 group quests per zone, I think it could be enhanced as well. Giving some group chain quests for example, or a specific zone full of elite mobs that require a group to quest through.
Travel Time
I think that's because that's what their suggestion box is filled with. I remember when the game came out, my roommate (he never played) saw me playing for a while, and then said "It looks like all you do is flying or walking, you're never fighting.."
Well he was true. At first, you had 1 quest hub per zone, and you always had to run back and forth to get to the next step or empty your bags. Then you had those quests that asked you to get to a very far away zone, and just 'getting' to that zone would take half an hour. I mean, really half an hour, not 'it feels like half an hour', just to get to that point. Maybe for the explorer type of person, this could be appealing, but I'm certain Blizzard's suggestion box or commentaries were filled with complaints about the time wasted into travelling. Those complaints were certainly just not from the 'casuals', but from the 'hardcore raiders' that had to get to their dungeons as well as the PVP'ers that had to get to the Battleground portals in order to queue.
Now here, I'm not suggesting World of Warcraft should turn into instance hubs. I like exploring myself. There cant be one uncovered area in any of my maps. And I agree there should be a little more action in the world (World Boss, zones for groups, the return of the elite mobs). Though I can see and I agree with their idea of improving the accessibility to dungeons and battlegrounds through portals from capital cities.
I like the new lfg system. If I am done questing for the day and I can't find a full guild group it is an easy way to knock out a few dungeons. Surprisingly for me I have actually had more conversations in the cross server groups than my own server pugs.