Having Played these games since the start of EQ and having seen end game in EQ, EQ2, WoW and now Lord of the Rings online this is what I have experience. In the start there is alot of solo content and no problem with gear. As the games progress gear get s harder to come by as does solo content. Lord of the Rings online is better than EQ2 and Wow in gear attainabillity and solo content. Still it is a MUST that you group at end game. I like grouping. The problems is I have NO friends who I know person on person who play these games. I join guilds ---If you count all games around 30 of them over the years, use Ventrillo, try to get to know people---still they are strangers gouped in thier own little groups. Trying to find groups for the class quest ect. you need in the guids/kinships is exetremely difficult in all of the above listed games. Why ?? Because my time and their time is limited. They work on what their circle of people need NOT what the odd guy needs. When they are doing the quests that I need odds are I have to work. I'm PST most of the players seem to be EST.
This is why I want end game solo as a choice. In Lord of the Rings online if you are completing some of the quests solo instead of with a group you recieve a Buff. Unfortunately this seems to come to an abrupt halt at level 50 or so for some of the class quest and so on. It's been 2 months and I have one toon who still can not find a group to complete her class quest.
I want the choice to do that content solo so I can get the gear I need.
I stopped playing both EQ2 and WoW because of the FORCED GROUPING END GAME---BUT WAIT I CAN'T FIND A GROUP ISSUE. I'm not against grouping and raiding. Most of the time I love them. I'm just saying it's makes gaming UNCOOL when grouping is required and you can't meet that requirement . Am I the only one out there with this problem who is over the age of 25???
Yes. Players that want soloable content should have an end game with rewards that are somehow just as good as those obtained by raiding yet still somehow diffrent enough that players will find themselves encouraged to do both on occassion. This soloable content would of course have to be challenging on a level above the typical PVE run.
Yes. Players that want soloable content should have an end game with rewards that are somehow just as good as those obtained by raiding yet still somehow diffrent enough that players will find themselves encouraged to do both on occassion. This soloable content would of course have to be challenging on a level above the typical PVE run.
If end game equals running and raiding the same content over and over, then no thanks, I don't want your endgame anyway, you social hamsters can keep it, I'll roll alts until I'm bored, then I'll go play something else. Or at this rate, stop playing MMOs altogether.
Now, if there's endgame pvp that is actually fun (as in, there are more than three or four instances and it's not all about dying at the spawn until you have enough gear to be worth crap, and pubs are separated from premades), then I'm all for it. I like pvp. I also enjoy crafting and pixel home decoration, so any endgame with enjoyable forms of either one at level cap will keep me logging on to my mains rather than rolling alts or quitting.
Dailies? What a joke, get rid of dailies entirely, that's not endgame, that's chores.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
"Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours...."
Apparantly their dynamic events can be completed by soloers, but I suspect the optional/informal nature of that kind of grouping structure will appeal to them enough to give a try.
They already do have an end-game, but it's never going to be enough. We are talking about the biggest percentage of self-entitlement players, in my opinion. If you let them go into the newest, hardest dungeons and have the opportunity to get the best gear available, it still will not be enough.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
interesting question considering more and more, groupers don't have a "pre" game .. at least not one that is any more exciting than running dailies over and over again.
imo solo players shouldn't play mmos. i'd prefer to have a genre dedicated to group oriented gaming, not that there can't be solo games with a global chatbox and an auction house /cough D3 /cough .. but there are very few games that put any real emphasis on grouping anymore .. but that is obviously not how mmo developers of the day feel so ..
anyway .. sure I think they should have it .. idk what it would be besides the crap they can already do at endgame .. but i'd prefer a real mmo anyway, so .. /meh
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Should they have a endgame like the groupers do? Or should solo players just hit cap, finish out their quests and re-roll?
No players should have "end cap" in the first place. MMO's should provide enough content and continued expansion support to make the MMO in question a never ending adventure...just like they were meant to be and what defined them as a seperate genre from console gaming, where an ending is expected. They should also provide enough challenge to keep things interesting and slow to rush to cap that so many in this new generation of gamers feel the need to do. And for what? To be "1st" in several categories? And so they can sit at cap whining there isn't enough to do?
They already do have an end-game, but it's never going to be enough. We are talking about the biggest percentage of self-entitlement players, in my opinion. If you let them go into the newest, hardest dungeons and have the opportunity to get the best gear available, it still will not be enough.
Hm. You're usually much more reasonable. Or at least much more diplomatic. I hardly think solo players are as demanding as PvP players. After all, we just want to be left alone, with content we can enjoy. We're perfectly happy for you to also have content you enjoy with your friends, we'd never try to interfere with that, so why would you want to interfere with our fun?
Of course, that doesn't apply to me, as I PvP as well as solo, therefore I will admit to being extremely demanding when it comes to my entertainment. It's because I'm entitled to enjoy the MMOs I play, or spend my tiny discretionary income elsewhere. I'd be a fool to do otherwise. Not that repeatable instances in an arduous gear grind is fun for me, mind you, but some solo players might like it.
Oh well, at least from what I've read, most grind in GW2 involves trying to get the same pieces of gear in various colors and who knows, maybe styles. I'd much rather kill the same mob fifty times trying to get that perfect shade of green boots to match my dress than kill the same mob fifty times so I can compete with Mr. and Mrs. Raider in PvP. Does that make me strange?
Oh well.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.
If more games had an end game that involves meaningful player driven content, yes. I believe too many games atm are raid/guild based with little focus on what a single player can accomplish when they have finished the majority of their progression. This content could come in many different forms, not just combat. Meaningful crafting and gathering, meaningful exploration, land/property ownership and improvement, mini-games, arena combat system, music (LotR style), meaningful territory control, mercenaries to guilds (seige protection/attacker), ship ownership, vendor shops, epic quest lines for single players, guild advancement, encouragement within the game to take part in social activities. I'm sure we could think of more, but we're getting into the realm of sandbox with this line of thinking. We all know that most developers would not dare approach the shear scope of a project like that.
Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.
And solo players can group up if they choose to. If you make the decision not to participate in group content, you are not being denied anything, you made that choice.
Most games have content for all playstyles and I do not believe that is the issue with most of these conversations. It usually comes down to solo players want solo content that gives the same reward as group or raid content.
Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.
And solo players can group up if they choose to. If you make the decision not to participate in group content, you are not being denied anything, you made that choice.
Most games have content for all playstyles and I do not believe that is the issue with most of these conversations. It usually comes down to solo players want solo content that gives the same reward as group or raid content.
solo players want progression just like the raiders and groupers and challenging content just like the raiders and groupers. it doesn't have to be raid quality items but there should be some sort of stat progression.
Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.
And solo players can group up if they choose to. If you make the decision not to participate in group content, you are not being denied anything, you made that choice.
Most games have content for all playstyles and I do not believe that is the issue with most of these conversations. It usually comes down to solo players want solo content that gives the same reward as group or raid content.
Yeah, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be group-only content. At all. Anywhere in my post.
And for me, personally, the reward is the content itself. Equips and such are just a garnish for the gaming experience, at least if said content is worthwhile.
How do you even make endgame content for a soloer? By definition, if it can be done solo it's going to be easy and the reward will be given to you. Raids are there to be done again and again, the boss drops 2-4 pieces of random loot that must then be given to one of the many people that turned up at the raid. Let's say there are 40 people at the raid and 2 pieces drop, usable for every class, then the Raid will have to be completed 40 times for everyone to be geared up. With loot for specfic classes, the drop rate is less likely so that 40 times might become 80 times. And we're talking of co-ordinating 40 people into a sleek fighting force, so chances are the raid is going to be a failure a few more times, so let's call it 100 times before everyone is geared up.
Meanwhile, the soloer does his solo 'raid', wins, he gets his items and he finishes. Now he needs another solo raid to do so he can progress again. You see the problem here? You would have to make a boatload of content to keep the soloer on the treadmill, while the people who play multiplayer - which, by the way, is what the genre is defined by - can keep repeating the same content until the developers create another raid.
So the question isn't /should/ solo players have an endgame, but rather /is it possible/ for solo players to have an endgame? I don't think so. And that's fine with me, as I'm one of those who play an MMO to team with other people. If I wanted solo content in an RPG I'd go play Oblivion.
Wtf is it with this "endgame" nonsense ? Endgame to me is when the game shuts down or has been completed, MMO's never end till they are shut down , with constant patches and content and expansions why do people call it endgame?
Ahh the ongoing war of group vs solo rages on.Endgame -why would you want the game to end anyways unless it isnt fun.If endgame means stuff to do once you hit lvl cap of course there should be stuff to do at that point for all types of players how else is your game going to afford its upkeep and new content if it isnt keeping everyone happy.
But they don't develop content for all types of players just the PVP and Raid crowds everything else is dismissed and considered boring by most players who have never touched a real MMO with real features besides Raids and PVP. That's why MMO's are considered a joke these days you spend 1-3 months in a newly launched MMO then unsub and never look back , you check in every now and again to see if they have expanded beyond basic standard features and you see that they don't , so you pitch the game in the burn pile never to be played again ( I did this with Rift...)
If more games had an end game that involves meaningful player driven content, yes. I believe too many games atm are raid/guild based with little focus on what a single player can accomplish when they have finished the majority of their progression. This content could come in many different forms, not just combat. Meaningful crafting and gathering, meaningful exploration, land/property ownership and improvement, mini-games, arena combat system, music (LotR style), meaningful territory control, mercenaries to guilds (seige protection/attacker), ship ownership, vendor shops, epic quest lines for single players, guild advancement, encouragement within the game to take part in social activities. I'm sure we could think of more, but we're getting into the realm of sandbox with this line of thinking. We all know that most developers would not dare approach the shear scope of a project like that.
They could in post-launch in content updates and even expansions a little bit at a time but they don't and that's the problem , that is why many new MMO's don't have any true retention or staying power to keep people subbing except the raiders, you can get good PVP in a FPS or a RTS game , I don't pay a monthly sub just to be offered one activity once I complete the main journey, it's shallow and its wrong, and your right MMO's need more fluff features and player driven content to keep people interested.
MMOG are about player interaction. it doesn't matter whether one plays solo, with group, or in raid, as long as their activity affects other players, groups and/or raids. if one player activity does not affect other players, game has failed as MMO.
Wtf is it with this "endgame" nonsense ? Endgame to me is when the game shuts down or has been completed, MMO's never end till they are shut down , with constant patches and content and expansions why do people call it endgame?
...sometimes I'm a sucker for trolls layin bait...I'll bite.
"Endgame" is that time in a MMO when your main toon has reached lvl cap, (that's short for maximum level capacity), and thus has no more questing or dungeoning s/he can do to gain more experiance. Not to say that is the end of the game, because, as you obviously said, the game doesn't end untill the servers shut down for good. Endgame content usually comes in the form of Raids, and PvP.
Raids are when you and a group of guildies/friends numbering anywhere between 6-25 total players take on the big baddies of whtever game you happen to be playin. Loot drops, hopefully for your toon, you move on to the next boss, wash, rinse, repeat.
PvP is short for Player versus Player.
I'm done nibbling on the bait, time for a cigarette, enjoy.
I think it is a big piece missing for solo players. Not everyone has time to join a guild and participate in raids. There should be end game (i.e. level cap) solo dungeons that are randomized to keep them fresh and challenging.
If you get in a MMORPG, you have to accept that at some point you'll have to group to progress further, thats the narure of the beast
Why? Why does it HAVE to be this way? Why is it absolutely mandatory in every single MMO for it to be this way?
It isn't. It's just how most MMOs are designed now, because they all want to cash in on the Wow format, Soloers are not asking for group content to be removed, nor do they always solo. But there is no reason, NONE, why it must be that only grouping has a progressive endgame.
Playing devils advocate here but it probably has something (not everything) to do with loot. These days the kind of games that cater to solo players (outside of crafters and the like) are the kind of loot heavy themepark we see alot of.
Are solo players going to get the same kind of gear from their scaled down dungeons as players who group to raid get? If so you can be your arse the raiders will cry about it, if not you can stake your money on the soloers crying about it.
Sad but true.
Personally I don't agree with the whole "endgame" thing anyway. At level/skill cap it should be about living in and impacting upon a game world and it's community. If people cannot make as much of an impact as those who work together then tough tits really.
to be fair it's a bit much solo players expecting to be able to do everything that people who take the time and effort to group up can do. If someone can't play as much due to other commitments then that's life i'm afraid, choosing a subscription based group orientated game was probably not the best idea for those people.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
YES. but at same time group players should have many possibilities for an "before end-game".
What is the problem nowadays is that in "levelling" times all is SOLO and "endgame" is all about grouping.
Thing is until game is all about comabt and running instanced dungeons / raids over and over , that's not going to change.
I am ALL for solo players getting end-game under circumstances that group players get fun levelling possibilities as well. To make clear - running solo content in a group and /or running some instanced dungeon while levelling if NOT going to cut it.
Wtf is it with this "endgame" nonsense ? Endgame to me is when the game shuts down or has been completed, MMO's never end till they are shut down , with constant patches and content and expansions why do people call it endgame?
...sometimes I'm a sucker for trolls layin bait...I'll bite.
"Endgame" is that time in a MMO when your main toon has reached lvl cap, (that's short for maximum level capacity), and thus has no more questing or dungeoning s/he can do to gain more experiance. Not to say that is the end of the game, because, as you obviously said, the game doesn't end untill the servers shut down for good. Endgame content usually comes in the form of Raids, and PvP.
Raids are when you and a group of guildies/friends numbering anywhere between 6-25 total players take on the big baddies of whtever game you happen to be playin. Loot drops, hopefully for your toon, you move on to the next boss, wash, rinse, repeat.
PvP is short for Player versus Player.
I'm done nibbling on the bait, time for a cigarette, enjoy.
It's a real shame that players buy into that. If nothing else, it's illogical.
Many MMO gamers go through this pattern of racing to the cap to get to 'endgame' as if it's some promised land of great new gameplay, despite history proving that 'the cap' is nothing but a waiting room to store the impatient in until the new levels or next hamster wheel can be sold to them in the next expansion. If the wait is getting a bit long, the devs will add in another tier of gear to keep that wheel spinning a bit longer. They will then race to the next cap and hop on the next hamster wheel until they can buy more expansions.
You''ve been taking the bait, alright... at 30-5o dollars a pop.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Having Played these games since the start of EQ and having seen end game in EQ, EQ2, WoW and now Lord of the Rings online this is what I have experience. In the start there is alot of solo content and no problem with gear. As the games progress gear get s harder to come by as does solo content. Lord of the Rings online is better than EQ2 and Wow in gear attainabillity and solo content. Still it is a MUST that you group at end game. I like grouping. The problems is I have NO friends who I know person on person who play these games. I join guilds ---If you count all games around 30 of them over the years, use Ventrillo, try to get to know people---still they are strangers gouped in thier own little groups. Trying to find groups for the class quest ect. you need in the guids/kinships is exetremely difficult in all of the above listed games. Why ?? Because my time and their time is limited. They work on what their circle of people need NOT what the odd guy needs. When they are doing the quests that I need odds are I have to work. I'm PST most of the players seem to be EST.
This is why I want end game solo as a choice. In Lord of the Rings online if you are completing some of the quests solo instead of with a group you recieve a Buff. Unfortunately this seems to come to an abrupt halt at level 50 or so for some of the class quest and so on. It's been 2 months and I have one toon who still can not find a group to complete her class quest.
I want the choice to do that content solo so I can get the gear I need.
I stopped playing both EQ2 and WoW because of the FORCED GROUPING END GAME---BUT WAIT I CAN'T FIND A GROUP ISSUE. I'm not against grouping and raiding. Most of the time I love them. I'm just saying it's makes gaming UNCOOL when grouping is required and you can't meet that requirement . Am I the only one out there with this problem who is over the age of 25???
Miracles happen when you believe.
Yes. Players that want soloable content should have an end game with rewards that are somehow just as good as those obtained by raiding yet still somehow diffrent enough that players will find themselves encouraged to do both on occassion. This soloable content would of course have to be challenging on a level above the typical PVE run.
Totally agree.
Nice necro. But it is a good thread.
If end game equals running and raiding the same content over and over, then no thanks, I don't want your endgame anyway, you social hamsters can keep it, I'll roll alts until I'm bored, then I'll go play something else. Or at this rate, stop playing MMOs altogether.
Now, if there's endgame pvp that is actually fun (as in, there are more than three or four instances and it's not all about dying at the spawn until you have enough gear to be worth crap, and pubs are separated from premades), then I'm all for it. I like pvp. I also enjoy crafting and pixel home decoration, so any endgame with enjoyable forms of either one at level cap will keep me logging on to my mains rather than rolling alts or quitting.
Dailies? What a joke, get rid of dailies entirely, that's not endgame, that's chores.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Guild Wars 2 seems to have fixed the gear disparity problem for solo players:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3
"Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours...."
Apparantly their dynamic events can be completed by soloers, but I suspect the optional/informal nature of that kind of grouping structure will appeal to them enough to give a try.
They already do have an end-game, but it's never going to be enough. We are talking about the biggest percentage of self-entitlement players, in my opinion. If you let them go into the newest, hardest dungeons and have the opportunity to get the best gear available, it still will not be enough.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
interesting question considering more and more, groupers don't have a "pre" game .. at least not one that is any more exciting than running dailies over and over again.
imo solo players shouldn't play mmos. i'd prefer to have a genre dedicated to group oriented gaming, not that there can't be solo games with a global chatbox and an auction house /cough D3 /cough .. but there are very few games that put any real emphasis on grouping anymore .. but that is obviously not how mmo developers of the day feel so ..
anyway .. sure I think they should have it .. idk what it would be besides the crap they can already do at endgame .. but i'd prefer a real mmo anyway, so .. /meh
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
No players should have "end cap" in the first place. MMO's should provide enough content and continued expansion support to make the MMO in question a never ending adventure...just like they were meant to be and what defined them as a seperate genre from console gaming, where an ending is expected. They should also provide enough challenge to keep things interesting and slow to rush to cap that so many in this new generation of gamers feel the need to do. And for what? To be "1st" in several categories? And so they can sit at cap whining there isn't enough to do?
Hm. You're usually much more reasonable. Or at least much more diplomatic. I hardly think solo players are as demanding as PvP players. After all, we just want to be left alone, with content we can enjoy. We're perfectly happy for you to also have content you enjoy with your friends, we'd never try to interfere with that, so why would you want to interfere with our fun?
Of course, that doesn't apply to me, as I PvP as well as solo, therefore I will admit to being extremely demanding when it comes to my entertainment. It's because I'm entitled to enjoy the MMOs I play, or spend my tiny discretionary income elsewhere. I'd be a fool to do otherwise. Not that repeatable instances in an arduous gear grind is fun for me, mind you, but some solo players might like it.
Oh well, at least from what I've read, most grind in GW2 involves trying to get the same pieces of gear in various colors and who knows, maybe styles. I'd much rather kill the same mob fifty times trying to get that perfect shade of green boots to match my dress than kill the same mob fifty times so I can compete with Mr. and Mrs. Raider in PvP. Does that make me strange?
Oh well.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.
If more games had an end game that involves meaningful player driven content, yes. I believe too many games atm are raid/guild based with little focus on what a single player can accomplish when they have finished the majority of their progression. This content could come in many different forms, not just combat. Meaningful crafting and gathering, meaningful exploration, land/property ownership and improvement, mini-games, arena combat system, music (LotR style), meaningful territory control, mercenaries to guilds (seige protection/attacker), ship ownership, vendor shops, epic quest lines for single players, guild advancement, encouragement within the game to take part in social activities. I'm sure we could think of more, but we're getting into the realm of sandbox with this line of thinking. We all know that most developers would not dare approach the shear scope of a project like that.
And solo players can group up if they choose to. If you make the decision not to participate in group content, you are not being denied anything, you made that choice.
Most games have content for all playstyles and I do not believe that is the issue with most of these conversations. It usually comes down to solo players want solo content that gives the same reward as group or raid content.
solo players want progression just like the raiders and groupers and challenging content just like the raiders and groupers. it doesn't have to be raid quality items but there should be some sort of stat progression.
Craft, pug, or GTFO
So no.
MMOs don't have high score lists, and that's a damn shame.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Yeah, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be group-only content. At all. Anywhere in my post.
And for me, personally, the reward is the content itself. Equips and such are just a garnish for the gaming experience, at least if said content is worthwhile.
How do you even make endgame content for a soloer? By definition, if it can be done solo it's going to be easy and the reward will be given to you. Raids are there to be done again and again, the boss drops 2-4 pieces of random loot that must then be given to one of the many people that turned up at the raid. Let's say there are 40 people at the raid and 2 pieces drop, usable for every class, then the Raid will have to be completed 40 times for everyone to be geared up. With loot for specfic classes, the drop rate is less likely so that 40 times might become 80 times. And we're talking of co-ordinating 40 people into a sleek fighting force, so chances are the raid is going to be a failure a few more times, so let's call it 100 times before everyone is geared up.
Meanwhile, the soloer does his solo 'raid', wins, he gets his items and he finishes. Now he needs another solo raid to do so he can progress again. You see the problem here? You would have to make a boatload of content to keep the soloer on the treadmill, while the people who play multiplayer - which, by the way, is what the genre is defined by - can keep repeating the same content until the developers create another raid.
So the question isn't /should/ solo players have an endgame, but rather /is it possible/ for solo players to have an endgame? I don't think so. And that's fine with me, as I'm one of those who play an MMO to team with other people. If I wanted solo content in an RPG I'd go play Oblivion.
Wtf is it with this "endgame" nonsense ? Endgame to me is when the game shuts down or has been completed, MMO's never end till they are shut down , with constant patches and content and expansions why do people call it endgame?
But they don't develop content for all types of players just the PVP and Raid crowds everything else is dismissed and considered boring by most players who have never touched a real MMO with real features besides Raids and PVP. That's why MMO's are considered a joke these days you spend 1-3 months in a newly launched MMO then unsub and never look back , you check in every now and again to see if they have expanded beyond basic standard features and you see that they don't , so you pitch the game in the burn pile never to be played again ( I did this with Rift...)
They could in post-launch in content updates and even expansions a little bit at a time but they don't and that's the problem , that is why many new MMO's don't have any true retention or staying power to keep people subbing except the raiders, you can get good PVP in a FPS or a RTS game , I don't pay a monthly sub just to be offered one activity once I complete the main journey, it's shallow and its wrong, and your right MMO's need more fluff features and player driven content to keep people interested.
MMOG are about player interaction. it doesn't matter whether one plays solo, with group, or in raid, as long as their activity affects other players, groups and/or raids. if one player activity does not affect other players, game has failed as MMO.
...sometimes I'm a sucker for trolls layin bait...I'll bite.
"Endgame" is that time in a MMO when your main toon has reached lvl cap, (that's short for maximum level capacity), and thus has no more questing or dungeoning s/he can do to gain more experiance. Not to say that is the end of the game, because, as you obviously said, the game doesn't end untill the servers shut down for good. Endgame content usually comes in the form of Raids, and PvP.
Raids are when you and a group of guildies/friends numbering anywhere between 6-25 total players take on the big baddies of whtever game you happen to be playin. Loot drops, hopefully for your toon, you move on to the next boss, wash, rinse, repeat.
PvP is short for Player versus Player.
I'm done nibbling on the bait, time for a cigarette, enjoy.
I think it is a big piece missing for solo players. Not everyone has time to join a guild and participate in raids. There should be end game (i.e. level cap) solo dungeons that are randomized to keep them fresh and challenging.
Playing devils advocate here but it probably has something (not everything) to do with loot. These days the kind of games that cater to solo players (outside of crafters and the like) are the kind of loot heavy themepark we see alot of.
Are solo players going to get the same kind of gear from their scaled down dungeons as players who group to raid get? If so you can be your arse the raiders will cry about it, if not you can stake your money on the soloers crying about it.
Sad but true.
Personally I don't agree with the whole "endgame" thing anyway. At level/skill cap it should be about living in and impacting upon a game world and it's community. If people cannot make as much of an impact as those who work together then tough tits really.
to be fair it's a bit much solo players expecting to be able to do everything that people who take the time and effort to group up can do. If someone can't play as much due to other commitments then that's life i'm afraid, choosing a subscription based group orientated game was probably not the best idea for those people.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
"Should solo players have an endgame?"
YES. but at same time group players should have many possibilities for an "before end-game".
What is the problem nowadays is that in "levelling" times all is SOLO and "endgame" is all about grouping.
Thing is until game is all about comabt and running instanced dungeons / raids over and over , that's not going to change.
I am ALL for solo players getting end-game under circumstances that group players get fun levelling possibilities as well. To make clear - running solo content in a group and /or running some instanced dungeon while levelling if NOT going to cut it.
It's a real shame that players buy into that. If nothing else, it's illogical.
Many MMO gamers go through this pattern of racing to the cap to get to 'endgame' as if it's some promised land of great new gameplay, despite history proving that 'the cap' is nothing but a waiting room to store the impatient in until the new levels or next hamster wheel can be sold to them in the next expansion. If the wait is getting a bit long, the devs will add in another tier of gear to keep that wheel spinning a bit longer. They will then race to the next cap and hop on the next hamster wheel until they can buy more expansions.
You''ve been taking the bait, alright... at 30-5o dollars a pop.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre