Wow, I am shocked at how few votes AOC combat got.
Im shocked at how many votes the WoW/Rift/lotr/eq style got.
This really. It seems like people really like the standard mmo combat.
I grew up with action games such as Mortal Kombat, typical mmo combat has never felt right to me.
Which is why I wish MMORPG Developers had never started trying to please your type of player, I totally enjoy the traditional combat model which is why I came to MMO's in the first place and avoided FPS and action style games.
No offense
I grew up playing card and board games and when I started playing computer games they were mostly turn based strategy games like Civilization or fligth simulators. I also mostly missed out on arcade and console game playing. Thus I naturally prefer slower, 'thinking man's' games and generally consider fighting games and more aggressive FPS games as 'kid's games' that don't require real skill.
I still remember my puzzlement when playing Street Fighter and having to those weird combos to execute moves. If I knew what move I needed to make, why was the game forcing me to all those hand gymnastics instead of letting me do what I needed to do.
Frankly I saw nothing innovative about AOC's combat system. I was just executing the same combos over and over which was the equivalent of an auto-attack anyway.
Wow, I am shocked at how few votes AOC combat got.
Im shocked at how many votes the WoW/Rift/lotr/eq style got.
This really. It seems like people really like the standard mmo combat.
I grew up with action games such as Mortal Kombat, typical mmo combat has never felt right to me.
Which is why I wish MMORPG Developers had never started trying to please your type of player, I totally enjoy the traditional combat model which is why I came to MMO's in the first place and avoided FPS and action style games.
No offense
I grew up playing card and board games and when I started playing computer games they were mostly turn based strategy games like Civilization or fligth simulators. I also mostly missed out on arcade and console game playing. Thus I naturally prefer slower, 'thinking man's' games and generally consider fighting games and more aggressive FPS games as 'kid's games' that don't require real skill.
I still remember my puzzlement when playing Street Fighter and having to those weird combos to execute moves. If I knew what move I needed to make, why was the game forcing me to all those hand gymnastics instead of letting me do what I needed to do.
Frankly I saw nothing innovative about AOC's combat system. I was just executing the same combos over and over which was the equivalent of an auto-attack anyway.
Yep, my gaming history pretty much is a parallel of yours, heck my first RPG games required you to use graph paper to map where you were in order to navigate, and when you torch burned out, you were standing in the dark and couldn't hit anything.
The trick is, there's room for all sorts of targeting and combat systems, and the problem comes when MMO developer try to create a system that fits everyone. Just can't be done, so then they decide to go after only the largest demographic, again excluding a portion of the market that would prefer another option.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Continent of the Ninth is the best combat system i have played by far, the problem is that you need a lot of enviorment to do it, anyway each system have pros and cons, i enjoyed a ton the EQ combat system as a Monk, but in that time the players had a freedom that today dont have, so more than the combat system was the freedom of how use it what was fun.
I would like to see more combat such as DCUO's, Vindictus and Tera (ive yet to experience it personally but it looks similar to these other 2 games right?) in mmorpgs.
I understand that mmorpg's did not start this way and some people may say "if it had this combat it wouldnt be an mmorpg." Maybe they would say that, i hope not tho. Of course you can make an mmorpg with this FPS styled combat, the rpg part is the content itself, not the gameplay.
Ive played the free version of Age of Conan and really enjoyed the combat. I agree that it was basically auto attacking but i have to point out that auto attacking is boring to a lot of people, not you? I'd bet youre bored of auto attacking, i totally understand your point but even if youre repeating the combos in the game at least youre actively taking part in the combat which makes it much more fun to me than your sit and watch your character do stuff thing. I dont mind those either, i love long animations in combat like Kabod and crap im forgetting the other names, i like watching cool combat but id much rather also feel like im actually controlling it too.
Contintent of the Ninth looks so cool!!!
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief. Join me on TwitchFacebook Twitter
Wow, I am shocked at how few votes AOC combat got.
Im shocked at how many votes the WoW/Rift/lotr/eq style got.
This really. It seems like people really like the standard mmo combat.
I grew up with action games such as Mortal Kombat, typical mmo combat has never felt right to me.
Which is why I wish MMORPG Developers had never started trying to please your type of player, I totally enjoy the traditional combat model which is why I came to MMO's in the first place and avoided FPS and action style games.
No offense
Pfft...
I can understand your point of view I guess. Still, mmo combat in general has always felt too static for me. I enjoy movement and that's particulary why I'm looking forward to GW2 and their outlook on combat.
Ive played the free version of Age of Conan and really enjoyed the combat. I agree that it was basically auto attacking but i have to point out that auto attacking is boring to a lot of people, not you? I'd bet youre bored of auto attacking, i totally understand your point but even if youre repeating the combos in the game at least youre actively taking part in the combat which makes it much more fun to me than your sit and watch your character do stuff thing. I dont mind those either, i love long animations in combat like Kabod and crap im forgetting the other names, i like watching cool combat but id much rather also feel like im actually controlling it too.
I really do not see where you got the 'actively taking part in the combat' aspect of AOC. When I played the game, the combat felt less active than that in WoW. I would just repeat sequences of keypresses to activate combos (usually in the same order every time). When I started the game the combat system felt more reactive but I quickly realized that it really wasn't. I don't know if it worked that way by design or was simply broken but the directional attacks really did not function. The best tactic was to just spam your most powerful combos as they came off cooldown and not worry about the mob's defences. When I realized that, the game lost all its lustre. I had less choices than when fighting a green mob in WoW.
Not only do you parry manually by parrying to certain directions; you can also parry a strike from the right by parrying left and then turning to the right.
You can chamberblock by pushing away someone elses weapon by charging an attack so the weapon animation passes through the enemy's weapon on the way "back".
One time I accidentally killed someone behind me by charging an overhead-strike with a twohander.
Arrows can get stuck on the inside part of your shield.
Arrows can be blocked with weapons (extremely hard to do).
Lol I can't believe auto-attack has the most votes.. fanboy invasion I guess.
I don't even consider lotro, wow or rift to be auto-attack systems either, they are button mashers. EQ they put in the same group and that is more of an auto-attack system. Rogues/Monks/Warriors really only had a few abilities to use, most dmg came from auto-attack. So I would say that "auto-attack" being the most popular is a tad bit misleading.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
I want a system based on realistic actions and consequences. Notice, I said "based." That doesn't mean completely realistic. I believe reality should be mitigated a little for fun. After all, how long will it be fun to rush into battle and die immediately or not much later and then either having to respawn and run back or create another character entirely. With that in mind:
I'd like to see combat be realistic. You swing your sword, dodge, block, and aim ranged weapons and magic.
There's no auto-targeting, sticky-targeting, or auto-follow and running.
Armor carries over the realistic advantages and disadvantages of wearing the different kinds as it does in real life. Weapons carries over the realistic advantages and disadvantages of wielding them as it would in real life, minus instant kills. A shot that would, in reality, kill a person with one hit should take 3 hits, while a strike that would maim a person in real life, should maim them in the game (not lose an arm or leg, but slow the person's attacks or moving speed depending on where hit). 5 hits in non-critical areas should kill a person. However, because archery requires manual aiming and the use of light armor, which makes them easy kills up close, they should be allowed to have head shots as instant kills, 2 shots to a light armor or unarmored chest/back cause death. Again, depending on the type of armor worn.
For instance, a warrior wearing plate armor will move slower, but be nearly indestructible against some damage types. His lack of speed, however, gives an expert archer the chance to shoot an arrow through the exposed parts the armor can't cover. In return, once again, a warrior with a shield will move even slower, but can deflect arrows. The light armored archer can evade easily and so on. Anyone well versed with realistic combat actions and consequences get where I'm going with this.
as long as the attacks are NOT mapped to mouse buttons (DCUO, vindictus, tera, DDO, rakion, etc) count me in for any other combat system.... tho i prefer standard (wow, eq, rift) combat and GW2 combat as well
if i ever wanted to have attacks mapped to mouse clicks then i would go MMOFPS
Lol I can't believe auto-attack has the most votes.. fanboy invasion I guess.
I don't even consider lotro, wow or rift to be auto-attack systems either, they are button mashers. EQ they put in the same group and that is more of an auto-attack system. Rogues/Monks/Warriors really only had a few abilities to use, most dmg came from auto-attack. So I would say that "auto-attack" being the most popular is a tad bit misleading.
button mashing is not fun, but action mmos like dcuo, vindictus, ddo are more button mashers but just with mouse buttons..... so thats even less fun than standard "auto attack button mashers", IMO
srsly if you haven't go play mount and blade... warband is 7.50 right now on d2d. lol@ ppl voting for auto attack. noobs.
so because many ppl feel more confortable playing auto attack mmos does that make us noobs?.... grow up...... if u like mount adn blade then enjoy it with the ones who like it.... nobody else has to follow you if they dont like it or just rather a different combat style...
For you the turn-based nature of the early RPG looks like a limitation while to others it looks like the main feature.
For people who prefer the more strategic and tactical aspects of slower combat, the more actiony and 'twichy' RPGs feel like 'dumbed down' RPGs meant for people who do not like to think as much.
I like the strategic and tactical aspects of turn-based combat, but I've yet to play a MMORPG that has that. MMORPG combat is so fast that you're staring at your hotbar mashing buttons, while killing enemy mobs in fast succession. DAoC had a slower pace, and you could pay more attention to the actual fight, but it still wasn't close to classic turn-based combat. I'd love to see turn-based combat like in Icewind Dale or Neverwinter Nights make an apperance in MMORPG's, just as much as I'd like a more realistic twitch combat system make it. I'm just tired of the current combat system, as it's repetitive and really easy to beat the enemy.
sry man but auto attack is just a snooze fest. you just stand there exchanging blows with 1 enemy at a time doesn't seem like very real or fun simulated combat. if your life was in mortal danger would you just stand there? but i guess that type of combat you usually aren't in danger.
sry man but auto attack is just a snooze fest. you just stand there exchanging blows with 1 enemy at a time doesn't seem like very real or fun simulated combat. if your life was in mortal danger would you just stand there? but i guess that type of combat you usually aren't in danger.
shrug
as far as we know GW2 is fixing that issue with moving combat / casting and ground targeting without switching from mmorpg to action mmo
If you look at the general zombie mass type gamer, you'll find that you get more bang for the buck just making a "kill 10 squirrels" quest vs some thought provoking quest. 1, because kill 10 is faster, and 2. the zombie horde does not read quests. Why make some epic social quest that takes 100 dev hours, when the zombie players skips the all 10 hours worth of story and lore and getis it donein 30 minutes. Dev frusteration causes them to say, "Screw it, kill 40 rats!"done in 1 dev hour.
Well it's actually that way because players like it more.
As you allude to, the tradeoff isn't a simple "Do you want Quest A which sucks or Quest B which is awesome?"
The question is more "Do you just want Quest B which is awesome, or do you want a huge array of 50 quests which keep you bouncing between various activities?"
And if you're playing a MMORPG, you're actually voting for the latter (by opting for masses of lite questing in a 1000+ hour game rather than the focused AAA-quality content found in 20-hour non-MMOs.)
As for "skipping" story, that's more a critical failure of MMORPGs to employ "show don't tell". Ironically this literary rule of thumb is the very reason MMORPGs should be less "literary". It should come as no surprise that when you immerse players in a huge, visual world that they tend to ignore flat, ugly text boxes.
Which is yet another reason MMORPGs employ so many micro-quests. They get you to participate in the story rather than trying to tell it with text. Participation is a step beyond simple "showing".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
sry man but auto attack is just a snooze fest. you just stand there exchanging blows with 1 enemy at a time doesn't seem like very real or fun simulated combat. if your life was in mortal danger would you just stand there? but i guess that type of combat you usually aren't in danger.
shrug
Agreed but the current MMOs who have a different system have Diablo styled mouse clicking instead, and that rather suck as well.
Anyone who ever wielded a sword know that melee is all about tactics. Outsmart your oponent or loose. And I don't see that happening in MMOs.
Well, GW2 use of the thief is actually the best thing I seen so far, you can't spamm any attacks but must think fast, react to your opponent and dodge manually, no standing still there. Even though the theifs attacks are outragous, with acrobatics and magic it still is the most realistic combat I seen in a MMO, sad isn't it?
dragon saga looks SO AWESOME! BUT I CANT PLAY ITT because i am not allowed for the content >:(
You're young. Just wait.
Anyway, as far as my preference... Something faced-paced but not too fast-paced that it makes you feel like you're playing streetfighter instead of an MMORPG. Dragon Saga is an exception.
Examples of these are Guild Wars, Diablo, and City of Heroes.
Comments
I grew up playing card and board games and when I started playing computer games they were mostly turn based strategy games like Civilization or fligth simulators. I also mostly missed out on arcade and console game playing. Thus I naturally prefer slower, 'thinking man's' games and generally consider fighting games and more aggressive FPS games as 'kid's games' that don't require real skill.
I still remember my puzzlement when playing Street Fighter and having to those weird combos to execute moves. If I knew what move I needed to make, why was the game forcing me to all those hand gymnastics instead of letting me do what I needed to do.
Frankly I saw nothing innovative about AOC's combat system. I was just executing the same combos over and over which was the equivalent of an auto-attack anyway.
Yep, my gaming history pretty much is a parallel of yours, heck my first RPG games required you to use graph paper to map where you were in order to navigate, and when you torch burned out, you were standing in the dark and couldn't hit anything.
The trick is, there's room for all sorts of targeting and combat systems, and the problem comes when MMO developer try to create a system that fits everyone. Just can't be done, so then they decide to go after only the largest demographic, again excluding a portion of the market that would prefer another option.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Continent of the Ninth is the best combat system i have played by far, the problem is that you need a lot of enviorment to do it, anyway each system have pros and cons, i enjoyed a ton the EQ combat system as a Monk, but in that time the players had a freedom that today dont have, so more than the combat system was the freedom of how use it what was fun.
I would like to see more combat such as DCUO's, Vindictus and Tera (ive yet to experience it personally but it looks similar to these other 2 games right?) in mmorpgs.
I understand that mmorpg's did not start this way and some people may say "if it had this combat it wouldnt be an mmorpg." Maybe they would say that, i hope not tho. Of course you can make an mmorpg with this FPS styled combat, the rpg part is the content itself, not the gameplay.
Ive played the free version of Age of Conan and really enjoyed the combat. I agree that it was basically auto attacking but i have to point out that auto attacking is boring to a lot of people, not you? I'd bet youre bored of auto attacking, i totally understand your point but even if youre repeating the combos in the game at least youre actively taking part in the combat which makes it much more fun to me than your sit and watch your character do stuff thing. I dont mind those either, i love long animations in combat like Kabod and crap im forgetting the other names, i like watching cool combat but id much rather also feel like im actually controlling it too.
Contintent of the Ninth looks so cool!!!
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
Join me on Twitch Facebook Twitter
Pfft...
I can understand your point of view I guess. Still, mmo combat in general has always felt too static for me. I enjoy movement and that's particulary why I'm looking forward to GW2 and their outlook on combat.
Voted for AOC melee combat,the most fun combat in a mmo for me .I also like the DCUO combat but it was not on that list.
I really do not see where you got the 'actively taking part in the combat' aspect of AOC. When I played the game, the combat felt less active than that in WoW. I would just repeat sequences of keypresses to activate combos (usually in the same order every time). When I started the game the combat system felt more reactive but I quickly realized that it really wasn't. I don't know if it worked that way by design or was simply broken but the directional attacks really did not function. The best tactic was to just spam your most powerful combos as they came off cooldown and not worry about the mob's defences. When I realized that, the game lost all its lustre. I had less choices than when fighting a green mob in WoW.
Mount & Blade: Warband.
No contest.
Not only do you parry manually by parrying to certain directions; you can also parry a strike from the right by parrying left and then turning to the right.
You can chamberblock by pushing away someone elses weapon by charging an attack so the weapon animation passes through the enemy's weapon on the way "back".
One time I accidentally killed someone behind me by charging an overhead-strike with a twohander.
Arrows can get stuck on the inside part of your shield.
Arrows can be blocked with weapons (extremely hard to do).
Very skilled players can completely dominate.
Aventurine-hater since December 5, 2009
Lol I can't believe auto-attack has the most votes.. fanboy invasion I guess.
Eat me!
I don't even consider lotro, wow or rift to be auto-attack systems either, they are button mashers. EQ they put in the same group and that is more of an auto-attack system. Rogues/Monks/Warriors really only had a few abilities to use, most dmg came from auto-attack. So I would say that "auto-attack" being the most popular is a tad bit misleading.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
move while attacking + jump
I'm happy with that.
Vindictus so far has the best combat system I have played.
If TERA and Blade and Soul can live up to that remains to be seen (for me at least, as I have nothing to go on other than videos).
I want a system based on realistic actions and consequences. Notice, I said "based." That doesn't mean completely realistic. I believe reality should be mitigated a little for fun. After all, how long will it be fun to rush into battle and die immediately or not much later and then either having to respawn and run back or create another character entirely. With that in mind:
I'd like to see combat be realistic. You swing your sword, dodge, block, and aim ranged weapons and magic.
There's no auto-targeting, sticky-targeting, or auto-follow and running.
Armor carries over the realistic advantages and disadvantages of wearing the different kinds as it does in real life. Weapons carries over the realistic advantages and disadvantages of wielding them as it would in real life, minus instant kills. A shot that would, in reality, kill a person with one hit should take 3 hits, while a strike that would maim a person in real life, should maim them in the game (not lose an arm or leg, but slow the person's attacks or moving speed depending on where hit). 5 hits in non-critical areas should kill a person. However, because archery requires manual aiming and the use of light armor, which makes them easy kills up close, they should be allowed to have head shots as instant kills, 2 shots to a light armor or unarmored chest/back cause death. Again, depending on the type of armor worn.
For instance, a warrior wearing plate armor will move slower, but be nearly indestructible against some damage types. His lack of speed, however, gives an expert archer the chance to shoot an arrow through the exposed parts the armor can't cover. In return, once again, a warrior with a shield will move even slower, but can deflect arrows. The light armored archer can evade easily and so on. Anyone well versed with realistic combat actions and consequences get where I'm going with this.
as long as the attacks are NOT mapped to mouse buttons (DCUO, vindictus, tera, DDO, rakion, etc) count me in for any other combat system.... tho i prefer standard (wow, eq, rift) combat and GW2 combat as well
if i ever wanted to have attacks mapped to mouse clicks then i would go MMOFPS
srsly if you haven't go play mount and blade... warband is 7.50 right now on d2d. lol@ ppl voting for auto attack. noobs.
die.
button mashing is not fun, but action mmos like dcuo, vindictus, ddo are more button mashers but just with mouse buttons..... so thats even less fun than standard "auto attack button mashers", IMO
so because many ppl feel more confortable playing auto attack mmos does that make us noobs?.... grow up...... if u like mount adn blade then enjoy it with the ones who like it.... nobody else has to follow you if they dont like it or just rather a different combat style...
I like the strategic and tactical aspects of turn-based combat, but I've yet to play a MMORPG that has that. MMORPG combat is so fast that you're staring at your hotbar mashing buttons, while killing enemy mobs in fast succession. DAoC had a slower pace, and you could pay more attention to the actual fight, but it still wasn't close to classic turn-based combat. I'd love to see turn-based combat like in Icewind Dale or Neverwinter Nights make an apperance in MMORPG's, just as much as I'd like a more realistic twitch combat system make it. I'm just tired of the current combat system, as it's repetitive and really easy to beat the enemy.
sry man but auto attack is just a snooze fest. you just stand there exchanging blows with 1 enemy at a time doesn't seem like very real or fun simulated combat. if your life was in mortal danger would you just stand there? but i guess that type of combat you usually aren't in danger.
shrug
die.
as far as we know GW2 is fixing that issue with moving combat / casting and ground targeting without switching from mmorpg to action mmo
Well it's actually that way because players like it more.
As you allude to, the tradeoff isn't a simple "Do you want Quest A which sucks or Quest B which is awesome?"
The question is more "Do you just want Quest B which is awesome, or do you want a huge array of 50 quests which keep you bouncing between various activities?"
And if you're playing a MMORPG, you're actually voting for the latter (by opting for masses of lite questing in a 1000+ hour game rather than the focused AAA-quality content found in 20-hour non-MMOs.)
As for "skipping" story, that's more a critical failure of MMORPGs to employ "show don't tell". Ironically this literary rule of thumb is the very reason MMORPGs should be less "literary". It should come as no surprise that when you immerse players in a huge, visual world that they tend to ignore flat, ugly text boxes.
Which is yet another reason MMORPGs employ so many micro-quests. They get you to participate in the story rather than trying to tell it with text. Participation is a step beyond simple "showing".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Auto-attack 20.1%
Hahaha
games have not regressed, people have.
Stay away from my action games noobs.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Agreed but the current MMOs who have a different system have Diablo styled mouse clicking instead, and that rather suck as well.
Anyone who ever wielded a sword know that melee is all about tactics. Outsmart your oponent or loose. And I don't see that happening in MMOs.
Well, GW2 use of the thief is actually the best thing I seen so far, you can't spamm any attacks but must think fast, react to your opponent and dodge manually, no standing still there. Even though the theifs attacks are outragous, with acrobatics and magic it still is the most realistic combat I seen in a MMO, sad isn't it?
It can be that TERA is on the right way as well.
at least some games are moving in the right direction 8D
die.
You're young. Just wait.
Anyway, as far as my preference... Something faced-paced but not too fast-paced that it makes you feel like you're playing streetfighter instead of an MMORPG. Dragon Saga is an exception.
Examples of these are Guild Wars, Diablo, and City of Heroes.
Intensity beats extensity everytime...