The game does not really encourage grouping or giving specific group bonuses. No "skill chains" or special attacks either.
Let's look at the Heroic quests for example:
You can choose to do them with a group and breeze through them in 5 minutes.
You can level up 2 more levels and solo them. Thats how Heroic they are.
There is no real incentive to grouping other than faster leveling and speeding through the content even faster.
PS: Except the infamous "Social Points". That's not really worth it unil they add really good items not only fluff.
You are right but there is OPEN PVP and Bioware even added non instanced FFA PVP planet so that players who want to group together have something more to do beyond Flashpoints and heroics. In my opinion devs don't want to force players into grouping anymore but rather give them a choice. it is upto players if they want to group or not.
Most of the times all group content at lower levels act more like a hurdle once the population move on to higher areas. I think that the majority of grouping should happen only at end game.
Forced grouping is of cause bad and the reasons for that have been beaten like the proverbial horse.
What i was trying to say is that there should be content that is extremely challanging that requries to group up even at lower levels.
I love hard quests that make the reward really an achievment. Maybe that's just me though.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
I've commented on this before, but TOR doesn't feel any more massive than Diablo 2. I mean the group max is 4 players. Its a MORPG not MMOPRG.
The group max is 24 players. Most games group max is usually 40 or less. I wouldn't say 40 is MASSIVE. What is massive about these games is the amount of people playing concurrently in the same game world.
Is there some game out there I don't know of where you can have 2,000 people in a party? LOL
Originally posted by Biggus99
You can't be serious.
Originally posted by Precusor
Where are you getting your info from?
I played beta, ran a flashpoint, in a group of 4. I played more did some heroic quests, in a group of 4. I mean I guess they have "raids" those are like instances? that can have bigger groups, but in general your going to be working in a group of 4. One for each class I suppose.
As for the playing concurrently in the same game world. I guess you dont count different instances of a planet as different game worlds? When I was on Ord Mantell there were at least 6 instances of it. Anyway, my statement stands it felt similar to Diablo 2. Going between planets is like going to different Acts. If the pvp groups are 24 players then kudos to BioWare, though I'm not sure if I'll enjoy PvP in an mmo combat setting. Also 40 is massive that's a fine standard for a game with avatars.
So most MMO's have dungeons of 5 people. OMG it's one less! That's so much less massive!! How about the fact that there is open world pvp that can hold hundreds to thousands of people? Is that not massive??? What about 16 player operations? That's not 4 player. You can form a group of 24 for open world pvp. It's not like there are 40 man raids in wow anymore, but you can form a 40 person group. Is WoW not an MMO? What about Rift?
What exactly is an mmo if SWTOR is not massive enough for you?
Like I said, you still haven't named the mmo that is more massive than this and why it is more massive. What mmo lets you run around in 2,000 player groups while you're questing?
You are just spreading misinformation after having played Ord Mantell for one weekend and barely seeing 5% of the game. You really don't know what you are talking about so maybe you should just keep your lies and misinformation to yourself.
As far as sharding goes:
The reason that there was sharding is because you were part of a weekend test, which makes me laugh because you haven't hardly seen any of the content. The weekend test are simulated launches. Yeah, you're there to stress the servers. The sharding is designed for extremely high population times (like launch) and is not normally there. The servers that the long time beta testers (like myself) are playing are more like what would be going on in normal operation. We are spread out over different planets and there aren't multiple shards of a planet. This is not due to low pop though, as the server is almost always about 3/4 full with no shards.
The sharding is designed for launch and other extremely high population times. Would you rather the servers went down? Would you prefer a massive amount of lag? Do you even have any clue what you are talking about?
AFTER launch settles down the sharding will go away. It is a dynamic system that is designed to handle extremely high stress on the servers and is only a temporary solution.
Its nto jus that. Mmos have to have solo ability in them. to many times if u read all the nostalgia the group quests u had to do to move on forced peoploe to stop playing. They had to stop and wait to get a group so they could move on.
Sorry thats not good design. Players have to be able to play and play at there own pace.Tor does everythign it can to encourage grouping without forcing it.
the heroic quests give ub etter gear then the reg quests. The instanded stuff gives better gear. If u group up u get social points u can spend on stuff for doing conversations in groups. The list goes on and on in how they are encouraging grouping.
Now can u solo if u want yes. Thats the way mmos have to be in todays world. To many people who play mmos have less then 10 hrs a week play time. they cant hit a block when they can play and not be able to move on because at the time they play they cant find a group.
/forced grouping in an mmo is bad design. And not having forced grouping doesnt make a game a single player game
tor fits all the definitions of an mmo that ive read on any gaming site ive ever found.
Exactly. This is precisely why players like myself wouldn't touch an MMO back in the old days. I don't mind grouping up with other people on occasion, but forceing me to do so just to play the content that I'm paying a monthly sub for isn't my cup of tea. And no, that is not how a REAL world functions. Millions of people populate the earth but very often don't interact with people they don't know. You have a small group of people that you work and play with every day while the rest of the world does the same. As far as I'm concerned MMOs are much more realistic than they used to be . If people want to group up they can. Nothing in TOR's game design stops that from happening. In fact I'd say there is plenty of incentive since you get to experience so much of the story with your friends. It's not a single player game just because you can level to max by yourself. Anyone that says so is just flat out wrong.
SWtoR does that. Lots of players (potentially) in each world and the world remains when you log off (and your friends, family, bffs etc log off as well). Persistent worlds.
Some folks seem to be defining SWtoR to NOT be an MMORPG because you can complete the bulk of the game (max level) solo. That doesn't make it not an MMORPG.
Personally I like to solo and for one was quite happy to see that SWtoR was solo friendly. Once I got into the last beta I did solo a lot but also found myself grouping a lot and actually ENJOYING it. TBH I was kind of shocked. (There will always be the PUG related issues, of course).
Forced grouping doth not an MMORPG make.
SWtoR is a solo-friendly MMORPG with plenty of opportunities for grouping. Perhaps they might offer more encouragement to grouping by +XP for grouped quests even 'normal' difficulty level. (I didn't notice this when I was grouped though it might have been there.)
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
Don t worry he s just trying to get you going. Of course it does everything you mentioned there.
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
Don t worry he s just trying to get you going. Of course it does everything you mentioned there.
Oh I don't think he was trolling. I was just curious if there was a logical argument as to how/why it didn't (by his standards) qualify for that. Basically a cogent argument FOR his apparent perspective wuold quantify the entire thread premise from the OP.
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
It does not say can, it says that they interact so I interpret this as part of the normal gameplay. And it also said a very large number. You could argue that in SW:TOR you interact sometimes with a small amount of people but the normal game play seem to be single player storyline with occasional encounters with other people.
For me that does not play like an MMORPG but I guess it differs for different people.
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
Don t worry he s just trying to get you going. Of course it does everything you mentioned there.
Yes ofcourse your interpretation is the absolute correct one and everyone else is just trolling... god forbid that people may have different interpretations and opinions than you.
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
Don t worry he s just trying to get you going. Of course it does everything you mentioned there.
Yes ofcourse your interpretation is the absolute correct one and everyone else is just trolling... god forbid that people may have different interpretations and opinions than you.
I just asked for the reason behind your opinion, mate.... Any thoughts?
Originally posted by DignaA lot of posts here say (or try to ) that SWtoR is not an MMORPG. "Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
It does not say can, it says that they interact so I interpret this as part of the normal gameplay. And it also said a very large number. You could argue that in SW:TOR you interact sometimes with a small amount of people but the normal game play seem to be single player storyline with occasional encounters with other people.For me that does not play like an MMORPG but I guess it differs for different people.
Nice try.
Even if we go with your "interpretation" (this isn't the Bible btw, it's a video game genre, a very well defined video game genre) of "can interact" vs "DO interact" I have provided several examples of how you DO interact with other players even IF you CHOSE to play the game solo (again, your fault for playing the game solo not the games).
Here we go:
If I need to kill a unique mob for a quest, and I'm soloing, but someone else needs to kill the same mob as me and gets there a few seconds before me, he has tagged that mob first and gets to kill it first. I then have to wait for the mob to respawn and kill it after him. I just INTERACTED with that player because he is affecting the same world that I am playing in. I have to wait for the mob to respawn which slows me down.
Same as if I go for a gathering node to try to get some mats, someone can beat me to it and I can beat them to it. That is INTERACTING while soloing, because we both want to get that node. Only one of us can get it, we don't each get one as we would in a single player game.
If I am on a pvp server, and questing solo, and a JC Shadow pops out of stealth and ganks me then camps my corpse, I just INTERACTED with that player while playing solo, against my will I might add.
If I want to craft a certain blaster rifle, but am missing some of the mats, I can run to the GTN and buy one that someone else put up for auction. I am playing solo, but just interacted with that player through the purchase of his goods.
If a part of the map is densely populated with elites or otherwise tough mobs, and I am trying to solo there, someone else coming along and keeping some of the packs off my back simply by doing the same quest is helping me by making the area a little easier to move around in. I'm solo but INTERACTING with that player as we are both killing the same spawns.
Same as if he pulls a patrol that's wandering around while I'm fighting other mobs. If it was going to get me, but he kills it because he's soloing and needs those mobs as well we just INTERACTED. He just saved my but, even if he wasn't trying to save me or interact with me.
If I keep an eye on chat and see someone talking about a great talent spec they liked, which I later try out and also like, that player just INTERACTED with me. If a player walks by me while soloing and does a /salute emote, guess what? INTERACTION
These are all examples of things that can happen while I'm soloing. As you can see there are many ways to INTERACT with other players, even while playing the game solo I'm not really playing by myself. Should be pretty simple to grasp for someone who's such an expert on what is and isn't an MMORPG, these types of interactions have been in MMO's since the beginning and they are no different in SWTOR. Case closed on that one. It's not open to your interpretation.
Lets take a look at all of the many ways that this game encourages group activity shall we?
Contrary to popular (wrong) belief. It is actually much faster in this game to level while in a group with a friend or two. The quests (which are your main source of XP btw) go by so fast when you team up on them, AND you are also rewarded for participating in group conversations with social points. A Specific reward that can only be attained through grouping up to do the content. Not to mention the fact that the group conversations can be very fun when you're partnered up with a friend. Just because you choose to solo these quests doesn't mean thats the only way or even the best way to do them.
Come launch day, me and a buddy will be questing together because of the speed at which quests are completed. It really is far superior.
There are MANY Heroic group quests that are scattered throughout your leveling process. They are in such a way that there are several on each planet, and they are spread out from the beginning to the end of the planet. They are SUPER easy to find groups for because the rewards are great. On top of all that they are repeatable daily. Some of the 4+ ones are fairly difficult and require good group cooperation, especially at higher levels (which I'm sure you haven't seen).
There are 15 flashpoints. That is quite a lot for an MMO launch, and they are spread out in a way that there is always one right around your level that is worth doing. These flashpoints are fun and engaging. They have difficult but fun mechanics at higher levels, and they include group conversations. You can also do them in hard mode at level 50 for better rewards.
PvP. This should be obvious but I'm not so sure with the crowd around these forums. It is entirely group content. Instanced Warzones are quite obviously multiplayer content.
You can queue up for GROUP based instanced pvp at level 10, and start earning rewards for level cap right away. Unlike most themepark pvp reward systems where the reward points, badges, ranks, don't really mean anything until you hit 50. You can actually start saving up all of the PvP commendations and valor starting at level 10 and use them at level 50.
FFA open world PvP zones? Hello? You can attack memebers of your faction. Rewards here are rare crafting mats and a rare pvp reward item vendor with items not available elsewhere. I'd say that's pretty good encouragement to go in there if you want an item or mats from there. And it will take a group if you want to survive in a freaking FFA PvP zone.
Illum. Open world objective based massive PvP zone? Anyone home? This place is absolutely massive. You are rewarded with commendations and valor used to purchase pvp gear. Hmmm. Sounds pretty group based. Why not throw in endgame Operations (raids) for good measure. Sounds pretty single player to me. I'm sure you can solo these and do real well.
You could argue that in SW:TOR you interact sometimes with a small amount of people but the normal game play seem to be single player storyline with occasional encounters with other people.
You could argue that, but you would be wrong. Occasional encounters with other people? Laughable. There are people all over this game. Every planet. All the way. I've never seen a "dead" zone or an area where people weren't out doing stuff.
Small amount of people? Absurd. I've seen them max out a server before, and it takes a LOT of people.
The "normal" gameplay is whatever you make of it. For someone so interested in wanting to have this great multiplayer experience, it sure doesn't sound like you are concerned with anything but soloing. Which is totally optional btw.
Grouping in SWTOR is fun, rewarding, and heavily encouraged throughout the game. As I posted even if your "normal" gameplay is to play solo, you are still interacting with many other players all the time, no matter what. They are all playing in the same game world as you affecting everything around you. And they continue playing in that game world even when you are logged off.
Just because they are on the server does not automatically mean you are interacting with them in any meaningful way. If most people are either doing single player storyline quest or in 12 (or whatever) player instances then you will rarely be interacting with alot of people.
For me interacting in meaningful way would be if you are in a guild with large amounts of people either grouping with each other or grouping and interacting with another guild. Sure this is possible in SW:TOR but the focus seem to be single player storyline and PvP instances. I dont see either of those two main activities as interacting with large groups of people.
Now if I hear that there will be extensive open world PvP or quests involving alot of people or a rich economy then I would change my mind but for me, right now, SW:TOR is a single player game with a multiplayer option as a secondary feature.
Just because they are on the server does not automatically mean you are interacting with them in any meaningful way. If most people are either doing single player storyline quest or in 12 (or whatever) player instances then you will rarely be interacting with alot of people.
For me interacting in meaningful way would be if you are in a guild with large amounts of people either grouping with each other or grouping and interacting with another guild. Sure this is possible in SW:TOR but the focus seem to be single player storyline and PvP instances. I dont see either of those two main activities as interacting with large groups of people.
Now if I hear that there will be extensive open world PvP or quests involving alot of people or a rich economy then I would change my mind but for me, right now, SW:TOR is a single player game with a multiplayer option as a secondary feature.
The multiplayer in SWTOR is primary, not secondarey. It's obvious you didn't read my post as I provided many examples of how you can interact with other players even while soloing. Not once did I say that just because you are on the same server you are automatically interacting with people. I provided several examples of how other players in the world can affect your gameplay.
This game is no different than any other themepark MMO in this sense. If anything it encourages grouping much more, without punishing you for not grouping up all the time.
I've been in beta for 6 months and I have spent FAR more time in a group than not in a group. If you want a game that affords you the opportunity to play in a multiplayer setting then this is it.
Just because other people are out there playing solo doesn't mean you have to. Just get some friends together and do whatever you want. It is an MMORPG after all.
Another obvious clue that you didn't read my post is the fact that you ignore that I specifically mentioned some of the open world PvP available in this game and it is extensive. I used open world pvp as a specific example of grouping activities (and believe me, it's extensive, play on a PvP server) and then you said Well if I heard anything about open world pvp then I might change my mind or whatever. Hillarious.
I know my post was kind of long, but read it. It will enlighten you. This game doesn't feel like a single player game to me AT ALL. It is similar to any other themepark MMO and feels just as much an MMO as they do.
Everyone uses the WoW clone argument, then goes on to say this is a single player game. I don't know if you've made that argument before, but this game plays a lot like WoW does. Are we going to start saying WoW isn't an MMO? That is laughable.
Then there is also the fact that all you are talking about is questing. Who cares? Questing in every freaking MMO is soloable. This game specifically makes it way more fun and rewarding to group up, but you are COMPLETELY ignoring all of the other content in the game. There is so much group content in this game for a brand new MMO, it's quite impressive. If you are a group minded player there is a ton of group content and also end game group (and solo) content for you to enjoy.
If you are so worried about it feeling like a single player game? Why the hell would you play an mmo as a single player game? EVERYTHING in this game can be considered group content. Forcing everyone to always be in a group at all times for all content does not make a game any more of an MMO than not having forced grouping. Even the freaking cutscenes are multiplayer! How many games have you seen with multiplayer custscene conversations? not freaking many.
This argument is so tired. I have provided you with fact after fact that clearly disprove your point, yet you are floating on impression and opionion. I'm giving you specifics while you are being vague and hypothetical.
Bottom line is this. You are wrong. It's not open to interpretation. It's not a matter of opinion.
SWTOR is NOT a single player game. It IS an MMO in the truest sense of the world. Based on many of your statements I'm pretty sure you haven't played the game at all. If you did it was briefly during the stress test because you don't know anything about the game. It never feels like a single player game. It feels like an MMO. Just because there is VO and story doesn't make it single player.
Originally posted by Yamota Just because they are on the server does not automatically mean you are interacting with them in any meaningful way. If most people are either doing single player storyline quest or in 12 (or whatever) player instances then you will rarely be interacting with alot of people. For me interacting in meaningful way would be if you are in a guild with large amounts of people either grouping with each other or grouping and interacting with another guild. Sure this is possible in SW:TOR but the focus seem to be single player storyline and PvP instances. I dont see either of those two main activities as interacting with large groups of people. Now if I hear that there will be extensive open world PvP or quests involving alot of people or a rich economy then I would change my mind but for me, right now, SW:TOR is a single player game with a multiplayer option as a secondary feature.
If you're using the auction house, you're interacting with everyone else on the server who is using the auction house. That is a massive interaction.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Just because you choose to play an MMORPG solo, doesn't make it single player. That is your own fault. If you don't have any friends or something maybe MMORPG's like SWTOR aren't your thing.
I'm gonna go ahead and bump this from 20 pages deep because apparently people still don't understand that this is not a single player game and are spreading that lie around again.
If you think WoW, LotRO, Rift, Aion, WAR, and AoC are all single player games, then yes, SW:TOR is a single player game, but it would only be so based on the same criteria that makes all those other games singleplayer as well.
The story-based gameplay does not impede traditional group play in the slightest.
If you think WoW, LotRO, Rift, Aion, WAR, and AoC are all single player games, then yes, SW:TOR is a single player game, but it would only be so based on the same criteria that makes all those other games singleplayer as well.
The story-based gameplay does not impede traditional group play in the slightest.
There are even incentives to get folks together to do the story group content for the social points...and I found this to be one of the most entertaining new things to experience...seeing who would win the roll and what the outcome would be. Blew me away actually, one of those things I never expected to catch me like it did
If you think WoW, LotRO, Rift, Aion, WAR, and AoC are all single player games, then yes, SW:TOR is a single player game, but it would only be so based on the same criteria that makes all those other games singleplayer as well.
The story-based gameplay does not impede traditional group play in the slightest.
There are even incentives to get folks together to do the story group content for the social points...and I found this to be one of the most entertaining new things to experience...seeing who would win the roll and what the outcome would be. Blew me away actually, one of those things I never expected to catch me like it did
I was personally amazed at how much I WANTED to group in this game thanks to the team mechanics BioWare set up. Most MMOs I could care less, it is always more fun to group, but is often a pain as well. This game makes me WANT to group up for a change.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
If you think WoW, LotRO, Rift, Aion, WAR, and AoC are all single player games, then yes, SW:TOR is a single player game, but it would only be so based on the same criteria that makes all those other games singleplayer as well.
The story-based gameplay does not impede traditional group play in the slightest.
There are even incentives to get folks together to do the story group content for the social points...and I found this to be one of the most entertaining new things to experience...seeing who would win the roll and what the outcome would be. Blew me away actually, one of those things I never expected to catch me like it did
I was personally amazed at how much I WANTED to group in this game thanks to the team mechanics BioWare set up. Most MMOs I could care less, it is always more fun to group, but is often a pain as well. This game makes me WANT to group up for a change.
I agree, actually I remember thinking that after finishing some of the group quests on Hutta, that I want to group as much as possible just b/c it was fun as hell with the group story options. I suppose this may wear off over time, but hey, I sure as hell am excited about it right now.
I haven't read every post so this could be redundant, but my opinion? SW:TOR is a mostly Single Player Game in a Multiplayer Environment. Note the use of 'mostly' there, as things like Flashpoints are really good.
It feels like it on a lot of levels, particularly "after" you get your companions. The world design is very corridor like and not quite open like other MMOs. The "story telling" system and instancing has "This guy's the owner of this moment, WAIT YOUR TURN!" when you're grouped up.
In design of progress the group stuff seems quite tagged on, and them labelling it (You need another person, or a good companion to do this) isn't really a very inviting group mechanic.
I'm sure the end game will need groups because gear obtainment will be all there is to do since space combat is tacked on.
Over all the "MM" part of this mmorpg is lack luster.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Comments
Forced grouping is of cause bad and the reasons for that have been beaten like the proverbial horse.
What i was trying to say is that there should be content that is extremely challanging that requries to group up even at lower levels.
I love hard quests that make the reward really an achievment. Maybe that's just me though.
So most MMO's have dungeons of 5 people. OMG it's one less! That's so much less massive!! How about the fact that there is open world pvp that can hold hundreds to thousands of people? Is that not massive??? What about 16 player operations? That's not 4 player. You can form a group of 24 for open world pvp. It's not like there are 40 man raids in wow anymore, but you can form a 40 person group. Is WoW not an MMO? What about Rift?
What exactly is an mmo if SWTOR is not massive enough for you?
Like I said, you still haven't named the mmo that is more massive than this and why it is more massive. What mmo lets you run around in 2,000 player groups while you're questing?
You are just spreading misinformation after having played Ord Mantell for one weekend and barely seeing 5% of the game. You really don't know what you are talking about so maybe you should just keep your lies and misinformation to yourself.
As far as sharding goes:
The reason that there was sharding is because you were part of a weekend test, which makes me laugh because you haven't hardly seen any of the content. The weekend test are simulated launches. Yeah, you're there to stress the servers. The sharding is designed for extremely high population times (like launch) and is not normally there. The servers that the long time beta testers (like myself) are playing are more like what would be going on in normal operation. We are spread out over different planets and there aren't multiple shards of a planet. This is not due to low pop though, as the server is almost always about 3/4 full with no shards.
The sharding is designed for launch and other extremely high population times. Would you rather the servers went down? Would you prefer a massive amount of lag? Do you even have any clue what you are talking about?
AFTER launch settles down the sharding will go away. It is a dynamic system that is designed to handle extremely high stress on the servers and is only a temporary solution.
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Exactly. This is precisely why players like myself wouldn't touch an MMO back in the old days. I don't mind grouping up with other people on occasion, but forceing me to do so just to play the content that I'm paying a monthly sub for isn't my cup of tea. And no, that is not how a REAL world functions. Millions of people populate the earth but very often don't interact with people they don't know. You have a small group of people that you work and play with every day while the rest of the world does the same. As far as I'm concerned MMOs are much more realistic than they used to be . If people want to group up they can. Nothing in TOR's game design stops that from happening. In fact I'd say there is plenty of incentive since you get to experience so much of the story with your friends. It's not a single player game just because you can level to max by yourself. Anyone that says so is just flat out wrong.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
A lot of posts here say (or try to ) that SWtoR is not an MMORPG. "
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game." (From here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game )
SWtoR does that. Lots of players (potentially) in each world and the world remains when you log off (and your friends, family, bffs etc log off as well). Persistent worlds.
Some folks seem to be defining SWtoR to NOT be an MMORPG because you can complete the bulk of the game (max level) solo. That doesn't make it not an MMORPG.
Personally I like to solo and for one was quite happy to see that SWtoR was solo friendly. Once I got into the last beta I did solo a lot but also found myself grouping a lot and actually ENJOYING it. TBH I was kind of shocked. (There will always be the PUG related issues, of course).
Forced grouping doth not an MMORPG make.
SWtoR is a solo-friendly MMORPG with plenty of opportunities for grouping. Perhaps they might offer more encouragement to grouping by +XP for grouped quests even 'normal' difficulty level. (I didn't notice this when I was grouped though it might have been there.)
I would question if that is really the case in SW:TOR. For me it does not qualify for that.
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How so not? I suppose if you want to argue semantics you could phrase it as"....number of players CAN interact with one another..." (Basically can versus do).
Don t worry he s just trying to get you going. Of course it does everything you mentioned there.
Oh I don't think he was trolling. I was just curious if there was a logical argument as to how/why it didn't (by his standards) qualify for that. Basically a cogent argument FOR his apparent perspective wuold quantify the entire thread premise from the OP.
It does not say can, it says that they interact so I interpret this as part of the normal gameplay. And it also said a very large number. You could argue that in SW:TOR you interact sometimes with a small amount of people but the normal game play seem to be single player storyline with occasional encounters with other people.
For me that does not play like an MMORPG but I guess it differs for different people.
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Yes ofcourse your interpretation is the absolute correct one and everyone else is just trolling... god forbid that people may have different interpretations and opinions than you.
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I just asked for the reason behind your opinion, mate.... Any thoughts?
Nice try.
Even if we go with your "interpretation" (this isn't the Bible btw, it's a video game genre, a very well defined video game genre) of "can interact" vs "DO interact" I have provided several examples of how you DO interact with other players even IF you CHOSE to play the game solo (again, your fault for playing the game solo not the games).
Here we go:
If I need to kill a unique mob for a quest, and I'm soloing, but someone else needs to kill the same mob as me and gets there a few seconds before me, he has tagged that mob first and gets to kill it first. I then have to wait for the mob to respawn and kill it after him. I just INTERACTED with that player because he is affecting the same world that I am playing in. I have to wait for the mob to respawn which slows me down.
Same as if I go for a gathering node to try to get some mats, someone can beat me to it and I can beat them to it. That is INTERACTING while soloing, because we both want to get that node. Only one of us can get it, we don't each get one as we would in a single player game.
If I am on a pvp server, and questing solo, and a JC Shadow pops out of stealth and ganks me then camps my corpse, I just INTERACTED with that player while playing solo, against my will I might add.
If I want to craft a certain blaster rifle, but am missing some of the mats, I can run to the GTN and buy one that someone else put up for auction. I am playing solo, but just interacted with that player through the purchase of his goods.
If a part of the map is densely populated with elites or otherwise tough mobs, and I am trying to solo there, someone else coming along and keeping some of the packs off my back simply by doing the same quest is helping me by making the area a little easier to move around in. I'm solo but INTERACTING with that player as we are both killing the same spawns.
Same as if he pulls a patrol that's wandering around while I'm fighting other mobs. If it was going to get me, but he kills it because he's soloing and needs those mobs as well we just INTERACTED. He just saved my but, even if he wasn't trying to save me or interact with me.
If I keep an eye on chat and see someone talking about a great talent spec they liked, which I later try out and also like, that player just INTERACTED with me. If a player walks by me while soloing and does a /salute emote, guess what? INTERACTION
These are all examples of things that can happen while I'm soloing. As you can see there are many ways to INTERACT with other players, even while playing the game solo I'm not really playing by myself. Should be pretty simple to grasp for someone who's such an expert on what is and isn't an MMORPG, these types of interactions have been in MMO's since the beginning and they are no different in SWTOR. Case closed on that one. It's not open to your interpretation.
Lets take a look at all of the many ways that this game encourages group activity shall we?
Contrary to popular (wrong) belief. It is actually much faster in this game to level while in a group with a friend or two. The quests (which are your main source of XP btw) go by so fast when you team up on them, AND you are also rewarded for participating in group conversations with social points. A Specific reward that can only be attained through grouping up to do the content. Not to mention the fact that the group conversations can be very fun when you're partnered up with a friend. Just because you choose to solo these quests doesn't mean thats the only way or even the best way to do them.
Come launch day, me and a buddy will be questing together because of the speed at which quests are completed. It really is far superior.
There are MANY Heroic group quests that are scattered throughout your leveling process. They are in such a way that there are several on each planet, and they are spread out from the beginning to the end of the planet. They are SUPER easy to find groups for because the rewards are great. On top of all that they are repeatable daily. Some of the 4+ ones are fairly difficult and require good group cooperation, especially at higher levels (which I'm sure you haven't seen).
There are 15 flashpoints. That is quite a lot for an MMO launch, and they are spread out in a way that there is always one right around your level that is worth doing. These flashpoints are fun and engaging. They have difficult but fun mechanics at higher levels, and they include group conversations. You can also do them in hard mode at level 50 for better rewards.
PvP. This should be obvious but I'm not so sure with the crowd around these forums. It is entirely group content. Instanced Warzones are quite obviously multiplayer content.
You can queue up for GROUP based instanced pvp at level 10, and start earning rewards for level cap right away. Unlike most themepark pvp reward systems where the reward points, badges, ranks, don't really mean anything until you hit 50. You can actually start saving up all of the PvP commendations and valor starting at level 10 and use them at level 50.
FFA open world PvP zones? Hello? You can attack memebers of your faction. Rewards here are rare crafting mats and a rare pvp reward item vendor with items not available elsewhere. I'd say that's pretty good encouragement to go in there if you want an item or mats from there. And it will take a group if you want to survive in a freaking FFA PvP zone.
Illum. Open world objective based massive PvP zone? Anyone home? This place is absolutely massive. You are rewarded with commendations and valor used to purchase pvp gear. Hmmm. Sounds pretty group based. Why not throw in endgame Operations (raids) for good measure. Sounds pretty single player to me. I'm sure you can solo these and do real well.
You could argue that, but you would be wrong. Occasional encounters with other people? Laughable. There are people all over this game. Every planet. All the way. I've never seen a "dead" zone or an area where people weren't out doing stuff.
Small amount of people? Absurd. I've seen them max out a server before, and it takes a LOT of people.
The "normal" gameplay is whatever you make of it. For someone so interested in wanting to have this great multiplayer experience, it sure doesn't sound like you are concerned with anything but soloing. Which is totally optional btw.
Grouping in SWTOR is fun, rewarding, and heavily encouraged throughout the game. As I posted even if your "normal" gameplay is to play solo, you are still interacting with many other players all the time, no matter what. They are all playing in the same game world as you affecting everything around you. And they continue playing in that game world even when you are logged off.
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Just because they are on the server does not automatically mean you are interacting with them in any meaningful way. If most people are either doing single player storyline quest or in 12 (or whatever) player instances then you will rarely be interacting with alot of people.
For me interacting in meaningful way would be if you are in a guild with large amounts of people either grouping with each other or grouping and interacting with another guild. Sure this is possible in SW:TOR but the focus seem to be single player storyline and PvP instances. I dont see either of those two main activities as interacting with large groups of people.
Now if I hear that there will be extensive open world PvP or quests involving alot of people or a rich economy then I would change my mind but for me, right now, SW:TOR is a single player game with a multiplayer option as a secondary feature.
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The multiplayer in SWTOR is primary, not secondarey. It's obvious you didn't read my post as I provided many examples of how you can interact with other players even while soloing. Not once did I say that just because you are on the same server you are automatically interacting with people. I provided several examples of how other players in the world can affect your gameplay.
This game is no different than any other themepark MMO in this sense. If anything it encourages grouping much more, without punishing you for not grouping up all the time.
I've been in beta for 6 months and I have spent FAR more time in a group than not in a group. If you want a game that affords you the opportunity to play in a multiplayer setting then this is it.
Just because other people are out there playing solo doesn't mean you have to. Just get some friends together and do whatever you want. It is an MMORPG after all.
Another obvious clue that you didn't read my post is the fact that you ignore that I specifically mentioned some of the open world PvP available in this game and it is extensive. I used open world pvp as a specific example of grouping activities (and believe me, it's extensive, play on a PvP server) and then you said Well if I heard anything about open world pvp then I might change my mind or whatever. Hillarious.
I know my post was kind of long, but read it. It will enlighten you. This game doesn't feel like a single player game to me AT ALL. It is similar to any other themepark MMO and feels just as much an MMO as they do.
Everyone uses the WoW clone argument, then goes on to say this is a single player game. I don't know if you've made that argument before, but this game plays a lot like WoW does. Are we going to start saying WoW isn't an MMO? That is laughable.
Then there is also the fact that all you are talking about is questing. Who cares? Questing in every freaking MMO is soloable. This game specifically makes it way more fun and rewarding to group up, but you are COMPLETELY ignoring all of the other content in the game. There is so much group content in this game for a brand new MMO, it's quite impressive. If you are a group minded player there is a ton of group content and also end game group (and solo) content for you to enjoy.
If you are so worried about it feeling like a single player game? Why the hell would you play an mmo as a single player game? EVERYTHING in this game can be considered group content. Forcing everyone to always be in a group at all times for all content does not make a game any more of an MMO than not having forced grouping. Even the freaking cutscenes are multiplayer! How many games have you seen with multiplayer custscene conversations? not freaking many.
This argument is so tired. I have provided you with fact after fact that clearly disprove your point, yet you are floating on impression and opionion. I'm giving you specifics while you are being vague and hypothetical.
Bottom line is this. You are wrong. It's not open to interpretation. It's not a matter of opinion.
SWTOR is NOT a single player game. It IS an MMO in the truest sense of the world. Based on many of your statements I'm pretty sure you haven't played the game at all. If you did it was briefly during the stress test because you don't know anything about the game. It never feels like a single player game. It feels like an MMO. Just because there is VO and story doesn't make it single player.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
If you're using the auction house, you're interacting with everyone else on the server who is using the auction house. That is a massive interaction.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Just because you choose to play an MMORPG solo, doesn't make it single player. That is your own fault. If you don't have any friends or something maybe MMORPG's like SWTOR aren't your thing.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
I'm gonna go ahead and bump this from 20 pages deep because apparently people still don't understand that this is not a single player game and are spreading that lie around again.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
If you think WoW, LotRO, Rift, Aion, WAR, and AoC are all single player games, then yes, SW:TOR is a single player game, but it would only be so based on the same criteria that makes all those other games singleplayer as well.
The story-based gameplay does not impede traditional group play in the slightest.
Yes it's a mmo with competitive multi-player, co-op and extensive solo play.
However the best part of the entire experience is the personal story of your character.
Everything else is underwhelming imo.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
There are even incentives to get folks together to do the story group content for the social points...and I found this to be one of the most entertaining new things to experience...seeing who would win the roll and what the outcome would be. Blew me away actually, one of those things I never expected to catch me like it did
I was personally amazed at how much I WANTED to group in this game thanks to the team mechanics BioWare set up. Most MMOs I could care less, it is always more fun to group, but is often a pain as well. This game makes me WANT to group up for a change.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I agree, actually I remember thinking that after finishing some of the group quests on Hutta, that I want to group as much as possible just b/c it was fun as hell with the group story options. I suppose this may wear off over time, but hey, I sure as hell am excited about it right now.
I haven't read every post so this could be redundant, but my opinion? SW:TOR is a mostly Single Player Game in a Multiplayer Environment. Note the use of 'mostly' there, as things like Flashpoints are really good.
Ooo didnt know that group size tells if game is MMORPG...
It can be tho'.
It feels like it on a lot of levels, particularly "after" you get your companions. The world design is very corridor like and not quite open like other MMOs. The "story telling" system and instancing has "This guy's the owner of this moment, WAIT YOUR TURN!" when you're grouped up.
In design of progress the group stuff seems quite tagged on, and them labelling it (You need another person, or a good companion to do this) isn't really a very inviting group mechanic.
I'm sure the end game will need groups because gear obtainment will be all there is to do since space combat is tacked on.
Over all the "MM" part of this mmorpg is lack luster.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.