Cant get much more mmo then this game, Its bursting to the seems with mmo goodness. That beautifull sight of flying over the heads of hundreds of other players in prairies as they level up while your traveling just like in another mmo I wont mention, you know your in mmo land.
Lets take the Agent / Smuggler class, how bloddy useless is it that you have to spend 1-2 seconds to enter a cover mode before you can use your shots, that thing becomes annoying before you even hit level 15, 2 classes i definitly wouldn't touch with a stick.
Oh yea and Space Battles is arcade mode, yay how fun, not............
You made a ton of great points.
Cover is awful, it should have a cd 3-5 s and provide a 20-40% damage bonus passive starting at lvl1 to next attack to make up for the wasted 2 sec.
I hope they do a JTLs x-pack. TO THIS DAY I SAY IT WAS THE GREATEST X-PACK EVER.
Why it was an entirely new game set perfectly into the existing game, ina way that didn't break the old game , but allowed an entire new experince, while influencing the old game to some degree (tradeskills, flight, some equipment)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Cant get much more mmo then this game, Its bursting to the seems with mmo goodness. That beautifull sight of flying over the heads of hundreds of other players in prairies as they level up while your traveling just like in another mmo I wont mention, you know your in mmo land.
I have never seen 100s of other players in game at the same spot, even on these weekends, you know they used instanced zones like tyrona sp? 1, 2, 3 etc.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
While a bit off topic, it's also somewhat related:
I fully intend to play at release and really like what I've seen - however, after about level 15-20 the world started feeling like a ghost town. I'd rarely come across anyone out in the world. At first I was thinking there weren't many people in the 20s, but that theory flies out the window when you see there's over 100 instances of Tatooine or whatever zone I happen to be in.
I think they would benefit from increasing the amount of players allowed in an instance of the open world. Because it certainly did feel like a singleplayer game even when it was clear there were hundrerds of other instances of my area running. Of course there's group content etc, however continually running through deserted spaceports and cantinas was depressing.
I'd like to see a few people out and about to atleast make it feel like an inhabited game world instead of me & hundreds of NPCs.
It's more of a group game than WOW is now, where everything outside of instances can be very easily soloed. The group dialog works extremely well too.
At what point does SWTOR become more of a group game? At what point is the content not easily soloed?
Flash points are hard.. about it.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
While a bit off topic, it's also somewhat related:
I fully intend to play at release and really like what I've seen - however, after about level 15-20 the world started feeling like a ghost town. I'd rarely come across anyone out in the world. At first I was thinking there weren't many people in the 20s, but that theory flies out the window when you see there's over 100 instances of Tatooine or whatever zone I happen to be in.
I think they would benefit from increasing the amount of players allowed in an instance of the open world. Because it certainly did feel like a singleplayer game even when it was clear there were hundrerds of other instances of my area running. Of course there's group content etc, however continually running through deserted spaceports and cantinas was depressing.
I'd like to see a few people out and about to atleast make it feel like an inhabited game world instead of me & hundreds of NPCs.
This is on topic and shows that the game is not really made for mmo. It is an mmo but in the lightest of massive ever possible.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I've just spent most of the last weekend beta testing, several chars, different classes to various levels. It's an RPG game online with places where you can meet, socialise and group for quests and small instances. It's not an MMO.
It's about as much an MMO as Guildwars or World of Tanks....
it's a good game, I enjoyed the weekend testing but it will fail as a monthly sub game unless they evolve it to F2P over the next year or 2.
The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line. Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points). Multi player 'Heroic' quests. World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so). Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train. Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip. Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line.
Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points).
Multi player 'Heroic' quests.
World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so).
Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train.
Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip.
Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
At what point do you actually have to group for those?
I kept seeing people asking for groups for those - for the life of me, I could not figure out why...unless they were just looking to be social.
edit: Serious question, btw - not trolling. I did not play past 11 on any of the toons I made - so I only got so far into Coruscant and Dromund Kaas.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Honest opinion, they started with KOTOR and decided how to put it online... the social aspects, grouping, everything else was a result of how can we make it massive and online.
Originally posted by lizardbones The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line. Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points). Multi player 'Heroic' quests. World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so). Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train. Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip. Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
At what point do you actually have to group for those? I kept seeing people asking for groups for those - for the life of me, I could not figure out why...unless they were just looking to be social. edit: Serious question, btw - not trolling. I did not play past 11 on any of the toons I made - so I only got so far into Coruscant and Dromund Kaas.
On some of them I'm not sure. I completed some of them without realizing that they were heroic quests. On others though, not only did you need a group, you needed a tank and a healer. That's probably the difference between Heroic +2 and Heroic +4 quests.
** edit ** I definitely noticed some mobs were much harder to kill, which is probably the Heroic +2 quests. On some of those, I ended up using my companion as a meat shield, healing them while they did the dps. I am glad they don't try to make you feel too guilty about getting your companions killed.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line.
Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points).
Multi player 'Heroic' quests.
World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so).
Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train.
Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip.
Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
At what point do you actually have to group for those?
I kept seeing people asking for groups for those - for the life of me, I could not figure out why...unless they were just looking to be social.
edit: Serious question, btw - not trolling. I did not play past 11 on any of the toons I made - so I only got so far into Coruscant and Dromund Kaas.
On some of them I'm not sure. I completed some of them without realizing that they were heroic quests. On others though, not only did you need a group, you needed a tank and a healer. That's probably the difference between Heroic +2 and Heroic +4 quests.
** edit **
I definitely noticed some mobs were much harder to kill, which is probably the Heroic +2 quests. On some of those, I ended up using my companion as a meat shield, healing them while they did the dps. I am glad they don't try to make you feel too guilty about getting your companions killed.
Ah, did not know there were Heroics other than the +2. Thanks for the info.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It's more of a group game than WOW is now, where everything outside of instances can be very easily soloed. The group dialog works extremely well too.
At what point does SWTOR become more of a group game? At what point is the content not easily soloed?
Flash points are hard.. about it.
So let me guess you can solo the heroic zones on every planet and FFA pvp zones too? even your companion won't help you in heric areas unless you are 4 or 5 levels above.
I am a long time Vanguard player, now Vanguard is a mmo that you have to group on occasion , but being the stubborn person that I am ,l usually try to go it alone and get killed, it is not so much that I am anti social as I dont like to go where others like to go so I solo and go where i want. At lvl 9 in SW I decided what the heck new game let me try and group and man what a blast, social points , the story line continues but now he is talking to the group , Bioware has done it again, this has changed my mind about grouping forever
Originally posted by Supersoups Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by NasherUK
It's more of a group game than WOW is now, where everything outside of instances can be very easily soloed. The group dialog works extremely well too.
At what point does SWTOR become more of a group game? At what point is the content not easily soloed? Flash points are hard.. about it. So let me guess you can solo the heroic zones on every planet and FFA pvp zones too? even your companion won't help you in heric areas unless you are 4 or 5 levels above.
Most of the content is supposed to be soloable. You're not required to get in a group to progress your character. You're also not required to solo to progress your character either. You get to choose.
I found a couple of heroic areas that I couldn't get through at first, but I could level ahead of the areas. I found a couple heroic areas that weren't all that heroic until the final 'boss'. I found a couple of heroic areas (more like Flash Points) that required not only a full group but an organized group. There is a wide variety of content available.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbones The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line. Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points). Multi player 'Heroic' quests. World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so). Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train. Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip. Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
I forgot the 'Social Points'. Yet more encouragement to group. You get points for participating in groups, which you can then use to get better gear (I think). I got my social level up, but I didn't do anything with it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line.
Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points).
Multi player 'Heroic' quests.
World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so).
Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train.
Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip.
Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
I forgot the 'Social Points'. Yet more encouragement to group. You get points for participating in groups, which you can then use to get better gear (I think). I got my social level up, but I didn't do anything with it.
Social point gear = aesthetics not even worth looking at
SWTOR is obviously an MMORPG...duh. I think that when people say it's a single player game they are just using hyperbole to make a point. It's like if I saw a basketball player and I said "OMG that dude is like 20 feet tall!!!" And then you argued that he could not possibly be 20 feet because if he was, his heart could not pump blood efficiently throughout his body and he would die.
The 20 feet tall was obviously hyperbole...I realized that he is not really 20 feet tall when I said.
That said, my issue with the "single-playerness" of SWTOR is that nearly ALL of the "new stuff" in the game is single player. SWTOR's bread and butter is its "story," and "story" is essentially a single player feature. Yes sure, you can argue that if you are grouped your party mates can choose the dialog by dice roll...but is this really that exciting? It's amusing for sure, but I don't think it's enough to make me want to buy a game.
On the MMORPG front, SWTOR is EXTREMELY similar to WoW. It has all the problems WoW had and makes hardly any effort to fix them.
I am so sick of not being able to group with someone because we aren't on the same quest or are different levels, or whatever. I am so sick of having to fight other players for the 10 rat tails I'm trying to collect. I am so sick of your run-of-the-mill instanced battleground.
None of this stuff interests me. The only thing that DOES interest me is the story (because it's different from WoW) and that is essentially single player.
Originally posted by Sourd420 Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by lizardbones The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line. Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points). Multi player 'Heroic' quests. World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so). Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train. Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip. Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
I forgot the 'Social Points'. Yet more encouragement to group. You get points for participating in groups, which you can then use to get better gear (I think). I got my social level up, but I didn't do anything with it.
Social point gear = aesthetics not even worth looking at
If the gear is aesthetic, looking at it is what it's for. That sounds appropriate for something you get by being social.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
1. Roughly 30 hours played 2. In a group the whole time (duo). We only split up for the class quest so that we can tell each other what happened when we meet outside the area( if our class quests are close) If theyre far ish and on the way toother quests, we do together. 10% of time we were in a ful group 3. % soloed is like...1% or something negligible
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
2. In a group the whole time (duo). We only split up for the class quest so that we can tell each other what happened when we meet outside the area( if our class quests are close)
If theyre far ish and on the way toother quests, we do together. 10% of time we were in a ful group
3. % soloed is like...1% or something negligible
Granted, but you could do that in any regular RPG that offers coop, like Diablo or Borderlands. I don't really view this as an "MMO" feature, just a multiplayer feature.
MMO features are more about interacting with other people through the shared, persistent world in a way that is not possible in a standard multiplayer RPG. Some examples are:
1. The auction house. The AH is a shared, persistent entity that players use to trade. If it did not persist, trading would not be possible outside of using external means.
2. Open world PvP/RvR. The whole premise of open world PvP is that the players can enter and exit a persistent PvP zone as they wish and fight for some kind of goal (either developer or player determined). It differs from instanced PvP in that the zone you fight in is persistent and your battles can have lasting consequences.
3. Meeting new people. The persistent world also serves as a social environment in which you can meet and play with new people. Everquest was really good at this since you basically had to group. You would often forge relationships with new people in your travels. While this could be done in a chat room as well, I feel that the persistent world adds enough to this process to be valuable.
4. Public quests / Rifts / Dynamic events. These quests are tied to the world not the player. They are not possible without a persistent world.
So there's some examples. Things like instanced dungeons and instanced battlegrounds just are not MMO features to me. Even though they are multiplayer.
Comments
Cant get much more mmo then this game, Its bursting to the seems with mmo goodness. That beautifull sight of flying over the heads of hundreds of other players in prairies as they level up while your traveling just like in another mmo I wont mention, you know your in mmo land.
At what point does SWTOR become more of a group game? At what point is the content not easily soloed?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
You made a ton of great points.
Cover is awful, it should have a cd 3-5 s and provide a 20-40% damage bonus passive starting at lvl1 to next attack to make up for the wasted 2 sec.
I hope they do a JTLs x-pack. TO THIS DAY I SAY IT WAS THE GREATEST X-PACK EVER.
Why it was an entirely new game set perfectly into the existing game, ina way that didn't break the old game , but allowed an entire new experince, while influencing the old game to some degree (tradeskills, flight, some equipment)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have never seen 100s of other players in game at the same spot, even on these weekends, you know they used instanced zones like tyrona sp? 1, 2, 3 etc.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
While a bit off topic, it's also somewhat related:
I fully intend to play at release and really like what I've seen - however, after about level 15-20 the world started feeling like a ghost town. I'd rarely come across anyone out in the world. At first I was thinking there weren't many people in the 20s, but that theory flies out the window when you see there's over 100 instances of Tatooine or whatever zone I happen to be in.
I think they would benefit from increasing the amount of players allowed in an instance of the open world. Because it certainly did feel like a singleplayer game even when it was clear there were hundrerds of other instances of my area running. Of course there's group content etc, however continually running through deserted spaceports and cantinas was depressing.
I'd like to see a few people out and about to atleast make it feel like an inhabited game world instead of me & hundreds of NPCs.
Flash points are hard.. about it.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This is on topic and shows that the game is not really made for mmo. It is an mmo but in the lightest of massive ever possible.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
From myself, having played the following;
Planetside, SWG, Tabula Rasa, WOW, Darkfall, Everquest 2, Mortal Online, WWII Online, WoT
and others which I forget...
SW:TOR is not an MMO as far as I can see.
I've just spent most of the last weekend beta testing, several chars, different classes to various levels. It's an RPG game online with places where you can meet, socialise and group for quests and small instances. It's not an MMO.
It's about as much an MMO as Guildwars or World of Tanks....
it's a good game, I enjoyed the weekend testing but it will fail as a monthly sub game unless they evolve it to F2P over the next year or 2.
The game has all the indicators of being an mmo, and more importantly, an mmorpg. There is encouragement, but no requirement to group. There will be an in game economy. Crafting requires more than a single player. There is large group content even at low levels. I'm not sure how anyone can say the game isn't an mmorpg.
Single player rpg story line.
Multi player Flash Points (with multi player rpg story points).
Multi player 'Heroic' quests.
World Bosses (starting at level 14 or so).
Crafting requires more gathering professions at higher levels than you can train.
Crafting only covers one type of item you can equip.
Galactic Market will have the crafting supplies, crafted goods and loot drops that you wouldn't otherwise get.
How is this game not an MMO?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
tyrona? WTF is that...
Im talking about when your flying the speeder transport you see everyone else doing there quests while you fly over them.
At what point do you actually have to group for those?
I kept seeing people asking for groups for those - for the life of me, I could not figure out why...unless they were just looking to be social.
edit: Serious question, btw - not trolling. I did not play past 11 on any of the toons I made - so I only got so far into Coruscant and Dromund Kaas.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Honest opinion, they started with KOTOR and decided how to put it online... the social aspects, grouping, everything else was a result of how can we make it massive and online.
The game design is back to front.
On some of them I'm not sure. I completed some of them without realizing that they were heroic quests. On others though, not only did you need a group, you needed a tank and a healer. That's probably the difference between Heroic +2 and Heroic +4 quests.
** edit **
I definitely noticed some mobs were much harder to kill, which is probably the Heroic +2 quests. On some of those, I ended up using my companion as a meat shield, healing them while they did the dps. I am glad they don't try to make you feel too guilty about getting your companions killed.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ah, did not know there were Heroics other than the +2. Thanks for the info.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
So let me guess you can solo the heroic zones on every planet and FFA pvp zones too? even your companion won't help you in heric areas unless you are 4 or 5 levels above.
I am a long time Vanguard player, now Vanguard is a mmo that you have to group on occasion , but being the stubborn person that I am ,l usually try to go it alone and get killed, it is not so much that I am anti social as I dont like to go where others like to go so I solo and go where i want. At lvl 9 in SW I decided what the heck new game let me try and group and man what a blast, social points , the story line continues but now he is talking to the group , Bioware has done it again, this has changed my mind about grouping forever
Flash points are hard.. about it.
So let me guess you can solo the heroic zones on every planet and FFA pvp zones too? even your companion won't help you in heric areas unless you are 4 or 5 levels above.
Most of the content is supposed to be soloable. You're not required to get in a group to progress your character. You're also not required to solo to progress your character either. You get to choose.
I found a couple of heroic areas that I couldn't get through at first, but I could level ahead of the areas. I found a couple heroic areas that weren't all that heroic until the final 'boss'. I found a couple of heroic areas (more like Flash Points) that required not only a full group but an organized group. There is a wide variety of content available.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I forgot the 'Social Points'. Yet more encouragement to group. You get points for participating in groups, which you can then use to get better gear (I think). I got my social level up, but I didn't do anything with it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Social point gear = aesthetics not even worth looking at
This is true.. but lets be honoust here.. we all seen too many pvp'ers who probebly would have put up a more challenging fight by going afk.
SWTOR is obviously an MMORPG...duh. I think that when people say it's a single player game they are just using hyperbole to make a point. It's like if I saw a basketball player and I said "OMG that dude is like 20 feet tall!!!" And then you argued that he could not possibly be 20 feet because if he was, his heart could not pump blood efficiently throughout his body and he would die.
The 20 feet tall was obviously hyperbole...I realized that he is not really 20 feet tall when I said.
That said, my issue with the "single-playerness" of SWTOR is that nearly ALL of the "new stuff" in the game is single player. SWTOR's bread and butter is its "story," and "story" is essentially a single player feature. Yes sure, you can argue that if you are grouped your party mates can choose the dialog by dice roll...but is this really that exciting? It's amusing for sure, but I don't think it's enough to make me want to buy a game.
On the MMORPG front, SWTOR is EXTREMELY similar to WoW. It has all the problems WoW had and makes hardly any effort to fix them.
I am so sick of not being able to group with someone because we aren't on the same quest or are different levels, or whatever. I am so sick of having to fight other players for the 10 rat tails I'm trying to collect. I am so sick of your run-of-the-mill instanced battleground.
None of this stuff interests me. The only thing that DOES interest me is the story (because it's different from WoW) and that is essentially single player.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I forgot the 'Social Points'. Yet more encouragement to group. You get points for participating in groups, which you can then use to get better gear (I think). I got my social level up, but I didn't do anything with it.
Social point gear = aesthetics not even worth looking at
If the gear is aesthetic, looking at it is what it's for. That sounds appropriate for something you get by being social.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
2. In a group the whole time (duo). We only split up for the class quest so that we can tell each other what happened when we meet outside the area( if our class quests are close)
If theyre far ish and on the way toother quests, we do together. 10% of time we were in a ful group
3. % soloed is like...1% or something negligible
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Granted, but you could do that in any regular RPG that offers coop, like Diablo or Borderlands. I don't really view this as an "MMO" feature, just a multiplayer feature.
MMO features are more about interacting with other people through the shared, persistent world in a way that is not possible in a standard multiplayer RPG. Some examples are:
1. The auction house. The AH is a shared, persistent entity that players use to trade. If it did not persist, trading would not be possible outside of using external means.
2. Open world PvP/RvR. The whole premise of open world PvP is that the players can enter and exit a persistent PvP zone as they wish and fight for some kind of goal (either developer or player determined). It differs from instanced PvP in that the zone you fight in is persistent and your battles can have lasting consequences.
3. Meeting new people. The persistent world also serves as a social environment in which you can meet and play with new people. Everquest was really good at this since you basically had to group. You would often forge relationships with new people in your travels. While this could be done in a chat room as well, I feel that the persistent world adds enough to this process to be valuable.
4. Public quests / Rifts / Dynamic events. These quests are tied to the world not the player. They are not possible without a persistent world.
So there's some examples. Things like instanced dungeons and instanced battlegrounds just are not MMO features to me. Even though they are multiplayer.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?