Originally posted by bcbully No it's the players who are willing to buy reskinned old ideas over and over. New message same game. I'm talking about you RIFT, SWTOR, TSW, GW2, Wildstar. Hopefully Wildstar is the last of the retreads
So? If it is fun, i don't see a problem.
And if you think wielding assault drivers is the same as wielding a sword, and playing in modern london is the same playing in Azeroth, then i think it is your problem.
We have superheroes MMO, Star Trek MMO .. and many other variety. The only sub-genre being monotonic is fantasy.
You may as well say all FPS are the same, all stealth games are the same, and all puzzle games are the same.
Multitasking was not factored in. I think the variance that multitasking would have would lean heavily in favor of actually spending more time in game. Counterbalanced by being less productive at any one particular task. The priority would still live with the game as you take a bite from your sandwhich without taking your eyes off of the monitor and then 4 minutes later take your second bite.
Originally posted by bcbully No it's the players who are willing to buy reskinned old ideas over and over. New message same game. I'm talking about you RIFT, SWTOR, TSW, GW2, Wildstar. Hopefully Wildstar is the last of the retreads
Woah dude, TSW is very different.
Also, GW2 is different enough that most of us quit playing it.
They are MMO´s but not sandbox games, so for most people they are the same as all the other MMo´s...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The problem is the publishers and the style of MMO. The last 8 years it's all been WoW clones (or the politically correct term, themeparks), and those need a massive amount of content to keep them from losing people faster than they gain. Only WoW really has enough marketing budget and presence to keep their numbers high. (though the untold story is they bleed most of their players pretty quickly)
Devs and publishers don't realize that the content they keeps people sticking around are the other players. The more and more MMOs try to be singleplayer games, the faster they die.
Originally posted by bcbully No it's the players who are willing to buy reskinned old ideas over and over. New message same game. I'm talking about you RIFT, SWTOR, TSW, GW2, Wildstar. Hopefully Wildstar is the last of the retreads
Woah dude, TSW is very different.
Also, GW2 is different enough that most of us quit playing it.
They are MMO´s but not sandbox games, so for most people they are the same as all the other MMo´s...
TSW was different, but it was still a singleplayer game pretending to be an MMO, and as soon as the content ran out, the people left.
GW2 is probably the only semi themepark game that isn't doing too bad, and that's a combination of slightly fresh ideas, one time fee, and above all, they make you interact with other players (albeit, only superficially)
Why doesnt some of these developers ever make single player games? like ncsoft or arenanet. And when is funcom ever gonna make a new Dreamfall. Making a good single player game might even help them financially too if it good.
It's a mixture of things like an economic climate where no one has the resources spare to take risks,the stock market system that also makes companies risk adverse,
Then there's the changing player base that don't want hardcore MMORPG ideals or are even looking for a game to play long term(More than month or two),They don't want virtual worlds or long term goals they want bite sized gaming and easy to earn/buy shinies.The F2P model is perfect for this and game design has changed to reflect it.Many of us here hate the direction that has been taken but we are a minority in the MMORPG market now.
Of course there are many copy and paste MMORPGs made cheaply and made to make a quick profit mostly from Asia but this is something that happens in all industries.
ArcheAge Looks Generic. Granted, they are trying different ideas inside the game, but the game looks like every other game out there. My qualms with ArcheAge atm are purely visual, which is 50% of an MMORPG. The game looks so damn generic that is makes me throw up that they backed up such a generic look with innovative ideas inside the game. Cry all you want, but ArcheAge is going to fail.
Why cry when its the #1 most anticipated sandbox mmo ever? You reason that its going to fail is that to you the graphics look generic?
That's because XL Games marked it all wrong.
Unless the graphics are hyper-realistic and using the latest GPU techniques, an MMO will come under fire for having 'outdated' or 'kiddie' graphics. They could have avoided that with a few marketing changes.
First, pitch the development not by XL Games but by "Jake Song, a developer who broke away from NCSoft after leading development on the blockbuster title Lineage to design a more creative and less mainstream game experience." Then make a point to talk about your small, close-knit team. Be sure to position yourself against The Man, and talk about the freedom you have not having your hands tied by greedy investors, money-grubbing publisher, or corporate micromanagement.
With the PR machine now in full force, you can unload the most visually horrifying piece of crap imaginable and you will have thousands that will defend you to death over it, armed with the highroad of "gameplay over graphics," resolute in their support for the underdog. If you do have a decent graphics team, all the better, because now you can release stylized graphics and, because you are the underdog, you will have that rabid legion - the same ones who would have ripped apart the graphics had they come from SOE, NCSoft or EA - defending your choice to dare to do something different and break from the mold.
XL Games missed a golden opportunity.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
ArcheAge Looks Generic. Granted, they are trying different ideas inside the game, but the game looks like every other game out there. My qualms with ArcheAge atm are purely visual, which is 50% of an MMORPG. The game looks so damn generic that is makes me throw up that they backed up such a generic look with innovative ideas inside the game. Cry all you want, but ArcheAge is going to fail.
Why cry when its the #1 most anticipated sandbox mmo ever? You reason that its going to fail is that to you the graphics look generic?
That's because XL Games marked it all wrong.
Unless the graphics are hyper-realistic and using the latest GPU techniques, an MMO will come under fire for having 'outdated' or 'kiddie' graphics. They could have avoided that with a few marketing changes.
First, pitch the development not by XL Games but by "Jake Song, a developer who broke away from NCSoft after leading development on the blockbuster title Lineage to design a more creative and less mainstream game experience." Then make a point to talk about your small, close-knit team. Be sure to position yourself against The Man, and talk about the freedom you have not having your hands tied by greedy investors, money-grubbing publisher, or corporate micromanagement.
With the PR machine now in full force, you can unload the most visually horrifying piece of crap imaginable and you will have thousands that will defend you to death over it, armed with the highroad of "gameplay over graphics," resolute in their support for the underdog. If you do have a decent graphics team, all the better, because now you can release stylized graphics and, because you are the underdog, you will have that rabid legion - the same ones who would have ripped apart the graphics had they come from SOE, NCSoft or EA - defending your choice to dare to do something different and break from the mold.
XL Games missed a golden opportunity.
ArcheAge has some of the best graphics I have ever seen in a mmo. I just love the look of an open seamless realistic looking world. That's why to me Lineage 2 still today has the best looking game world of any mmo out but that's just my opinion. To each his own I guess.
I don't think that most MMOs on the market are "mediocre". I enjoy playing them and get more entertainment per dollar value out of them than a typical single player game. Sure there are plenty of mediocre F2P MMOs, but I think most of us could care less about those and I doubt that's what people bring up. I don't see what the problem is here. Bioware didn't research the MMO market very well if they thought 180 hours of content was going to last players 3 or 4 months. People need to stop going under the false assumption that a MMO is suppose to last you years of playability and just enjoy the MMOs and move on when you get bored. Gone are the days of either choosing Everquest, FFXI, or Ultima Online. We have options now, lots of options.
As for "certain" players ranting and causing public rejection of the game I don't see it. You have plenty of people on the other side of the coin defending any flaw a game might have. There are certainly a few trolls who want nothing to do to then complain, but I think the majority of the public perception of a game isn't influenced at all by a general public's opinion of something (look at how well Transformer movies tend to do and how poor they do with critics). Word of mouth is a factor, but if word of mouth is overwhelmingly negative than that's certainly more of a problem that likely wasn't caused by "certain" players.
I find it strange that players view many of the games listed here as failures when they are doing well (even exceptionally well) in terms of sales and subs, especially when I see a few posters who were defending some of those games for months whenever someone criticized something about said game. Now they are going to turn around and criticize those games and call them failures because they stopped playing those games? That's really hypocritical.
ArcheAge Looks Generic. Granted, they are trying different ideas inside the game, but the game looks like every other game out there. My qualms with ArcheAge atm are purely visual, which is 50% of an MMORPG. The game looks so damn generic that is makes me throw up that they backed up such a generic look with innovative ideas inside the game. Cry all you want, but ArcheAge is going to fail.
Why cry when its the #1 most anticipated sandbox mmo ever? You reason that its going to fail is that to you the graphics look generic?
That's because XL Games marked it all wrong.
Unless the graphics are hyper-realistic and using the latest GPU techniques, an MMO will come under fire for having 'outdated' or 'kiddie' graphics. They could have avoided that with a few marketing changes.
First, pitch the development not by XL Games but by "Jake Song, a developer who broke away from NCSoft after leading development on the blockbuster title Lineage to design a more creative and less mainstream game experience." Then make a point to talk about your small, close-knit team. Be sure to position yourself against The Man, and talk about the freedom you have not having your hands tied by greedy investors, money-grubbing publisher, or corporate micromanagement.
With the PR machine now in full force, you can unload the most visually horrifying piece of crap imaginable and you will have thousands that will defend you to death over it, armed with the highroad of "gameplay over graphics," resolute in their support for the underdog. If you do have a decent graphics team, all the better, because now you can release stylized graphics and, because you are the underdog, you will have that rabid legion - the same ones who would have ripped apart the graphics had they come from SOE, NCSoft or EA - defending your choice to dare to do something different and break from the mold.
XL Games missed a golden opportunity.
Chuckle, Hop aboard the skeptic train, you can sit in the window seat.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
People need to stop going under the false assumption that a MMO is suppose to last you years of playability and just enjoy the MMOs and move on when you get bored. Gone are the days of either choosing Everquest, FFXI, or Ultima Online. We have options now, lots of options.
No, you can still get years of playability out of some titles if you have the mindset for it.
Unfortunately, everyone decides their favorite way is the only way, puts on the team jerseys, and starts ripping everything that doesn't meet the home teams political platform.
Give me a serious roleplaying game (you think your hopes have been ignored by the industry for a long time now?) again, sand or park, and I'm there. I'll wear both jerseys, ifn I gotta.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think the problem is Marketing-driven MMORPG design. Marketing folks take a poll of players and get back stuff like "we want more story", "I want my actions to impact the whole world", "I want to be the hero", etc... And when players get that, many of them hate it.
Devs need to follow the MMORPG "vision" and that is "world".
I've never been polled by any marketer (except possibly here, viral marketers?) about an mmo. Designers haven't ever worked that way, anywhere, to my knowledge.
But I don't know, maybe somewhere? Guys?
A truth, or ForumTruth?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by tkreep Why doesnt some of these developers ever make single player games? like ncsoft or arenanet. And when is funcom ever gonna make a new Dreamfall. Making a good single player game might even help them financially too if it good.
Because publishers get involved. TSW was going to be singleplayer. NWN was going to be online multiplayer. But publishers get involved and bastardize the game by forcing some basic MMO functionality, just to justify the monthly fee. SWTOR would have been a great Kotor 3, but now its both a horrible singleplayer game AND a horrible MMO.
I think the problem is Marketing-driven MMORPG design. Marketing folks take a poll of players and get back stuff like "we want more story", "I want my actions to impact the whole world", "I want to be the hero", etc... And when players get that, many of them hate it.
Devs need to follow the MMORPG "vision" and that is "world".
I've never been polled by any marketer (except possibly here, viral marketers?) about an mmo. Designers haven't ever worked that way, anywhere, to my knowledge.
But I don't know, maybe somewhere? Guys?
A truth, or ForumTruth?
I've filled them out when leaving MMO's. I would like to say several several MMO's several times, I don't recall though. I know I"ve filled out a survey every time I've left WoW so several times on that one. I think I've done it on EQ2 though as well can't recall.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by bcbully No it's the players who are willing to buy reskinned old ideas over and over. New message same game. I'm talking about you RIFT, SWTOR, TSW, GW2, Wildstar. Hopefully Wildstar is the last of the retreads
/Thread.
People keep buying the junk, so the developers keep producing it. Just go to the forums of Wildstar, TESO, ArcheAge, etc and look at the hoopa-ha of retards, trying with all their might, to convince themselves that these games are 'unique' and def not clones.
This isn't just an MMORPG problem either. This problem extends across multiple genres and is even more prevalent in FPS games. **Cough** COD.
Hmm i think games like ArcheAge and Age Of Wushu have quite a few unique features.
Offline feature of AOW
Prison Systems of both games.
Bounty System of both games, especially AOW Yes we have had a bounty system in western MMO's but nothing compared to both these games, not even close.
kidnapping System of Age Of Wushu
The list goes on.
If these things were in a western mmo we wouldn't hear the last of it.
I'm not saying these are the best mmo's ever made but to imply that they are more of the same is a bit of a stretch.
I don't know one western mmo where an instanced boss can call on actual players to help him defend his dungeon or where certain skills will change your appearance permantly.
Originally posted by tkreep Why doesnt some of these developers ever make single player games? like ncsoft or arenanet. And when is funcom ever gonna make a new Dreamfall. Making a good single player game might even help them financially too if it good.
Because publishers get involved. TSW was going to be singleplayer. NWN was going to be online multiplayer. But publishers get involved and bastardize the game by forcing some basic MMO functionality, just to justify the monthly fee. SWTOR would have been a great Kotor 3, but now its both a horrible singleplayer game AND a horrible MMO.
Wait .. what monthly fee? There is none for TSW, nor NWO.
TSW and NWO would both be fine games without the MMO elements. In fact, the worst part of NWO is to walk all the public zones to the actual story instance. I would much prefer to get there by a lobby. Walking the same city around bunch of players again and again is just a chore to me.
I've filled them out when leaving MMO's. I would like to say several several MMO's several times, I don't recall though. I know I"ve filled out a survey every time I've left WoW so several times on that one. I think I've done it on EQ2 though as well can't recall.
And did you get what you asked Santa for?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The problem is the publishers and the style of MMO. The last 8 years it's all been WoW clones (or the politically correct term, themeparks), and those need a massive amount of content to keep them from losing people faster than they gain. Only WoW really has enough marketing budget and presence to keep their numbers high. (though the untold story is they bleed most of their players pretty quickly)
Devs and publishers don't realize that the content they keeps people sticking around are the other players. The more and more MMOs try to be singleplayer games, the faster they die.
Originally posted by tkreep Why doesnt some of these developers ever make single player games? like ncsoft or arenanet. And when is funcom ever gonna make a new Dreamfall. Making a good single player game might even help them financially too if it good.
Because publishers get involved. TSW was going to be singleplayer. NWN was going to be online multiplayer. But publishers get involved and bastardize the game by forcing some basic MMO functionality, just to justify the monthly fee. SWTOR would have been a great Kotor 3, but now its both a horrible singleplayer game AND a horrible MMO.
Wait .. what monthly fee? There is none for TSW, nor NWO.
TSW and NWO would both be fine games without the MMO elements. In fact, the worst part of NWO is to walk all the public zones to the actual story instance. I would much prefer to get there by a lobby. Walking the same city around bunch of players again and again is just a chore to me.
Not anymore there isn't. Because that's not how you make a good MMO. But by forcing some sort of always online requirement by making a frankenstein MMO, you can charge way more than if you made a good singleplayer game.
Originally posted by tkreep Why doesnt some of these developers ever make single player games? like ncsoft or arenanet. And when is funcom ever gonna make a new Dreamfall. Making a good single player game might even help them financially too if it good.
Because publishers get involved. TSW was going to be singleplayer. NWN was going to be online multiplayer. But publishers get involved and bastardize the game by forcing some basic MMO functionality, just to justify the monthly fee. SWTOR would have been a great Kotor 3, but now its both a horrible singleplayer game AND a horrible MMO.
Wait .. what monthly fee? There is none for TSW, nor NWO.
TSW and NWO would both be fine games without the MMO elements. In fact, the worst part of NWO is to walk all the public zones to the actual story instance. I would much prefer to get there by a lobby. Walking the same city around bunch of players again and again is just a chore to me.
Not anymore there isn't. Because that's not how you make a good MMO. But by forcing some sort of always online requirement by making a frankenstein MMO, you can charge way more than if you made a good singleplayer game.
Do they? NWO is designed as a F2P game from the ground up. They certainly are not getting a dime from me, and no where close to what i will pay for a SP game.
Generalize the problem, your bound to find a faulty solution...
There are a lot of problems, but its certainly not the consumers responsibility to make an MMO successful. And the developers are certainly not doing well.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
What do you think? Are developers and publishers the reason why the last major MMO releases were not accepted by many players, or do certain players due to their way of life cause a lot of rant that leads to public rejection of a game?
As a gamer I've noticed this trend to more mediocre MMO's . The fault does rest with the Devs. The reasons being . Chasing the WOW formula. What is that formula ? It has more to do with accessibility at this point then anything else. That game is highly accessible , you don't need much to play the game , short of a hamster and screen ( exaggeration ) . The point being it's not a high resource game.
The other factor is consoles. In the drive to make MMO's more appealing to a larger population it had to be easily accessible and appealing to the console gen of players. Simpler is and always will be better. This gen is more about running through content then puzzles. Even though the puzzles don't present much of a challenge anymore , thanks to google and youtube.
In all fairness gamers were I believe more serious ( or should I say dedicated ? )back in the day. Good luck putting a 75 man raid together nowadays or even 40 man. Makes games more accessible has had the consequence of dropping the level to the lowest common denominator. Devs have responded accordingly , until it became this vicious circle. People are basically lazy and the devs have corresponding become so.
Nope it's the players fault, and the markets fault.
Players are at fault
1. base your expectations on what features on what an mmo should contain based off what a game you played for 5 to 10 years had when it went tits up. Don't think about how many expansions, and updates aforementioned game had in it's time span, just hold the next game accountable to somehow have 5-10 years of content at launch.
2. Gamer's expectations are stupid. Take any game, mix the best features from every game you've ever played, and expect the one game coming out to incorporate all of them.
3. Gamer's are as unified as the panel on any Jerry Springer episode. They can all agree that a game sucks, and they are united as hell voicing their complaints with other's that are complaining about other features. Now, ask that same unified group what the game needs, and they are torn apart instantly(sandbox features, more themepark features, less PvP, more PvP and on and on). The only thing gamer's will agree on, is publisher hate, but ask about a specific gameplay mechanic, or game feature, and they are instantly on opposite sides. What can a developer do when they have any given 100 gamers, all wanting 100 different things.
4. Complaining about games, is the new trendy hip thing to do. It's more important for jackwads to spend their days hating a game(lets say guildwars 2) rather than playing another game. I don't like GW2, but I don't post about it, cause I don't f****** play it.(that and I'm a FPS guy-planetside/star citizen type stuff). I don't post "GW2 would be so much better if it was in first person, and came with rifles". Doesn't stop a lot of people from posting their stupid "what this game needs" cries.
Market
There is a ton of options, why limit your self to one game that your done with.
Why should anyone stick with a game for more than six months, there is a completely new game always coming out, with all brand new stuff to check out. You could probably try a new online game every day for the next year, why stick with any of them. Why wait for SWTOR to add a new planet, when there will be another game thats 100% new to you. Why stick with GW2 waiting on the next micro update, when there is more games in the same genre always coming out with different stuff to check out. Why keep playing planetside 2 when you can try out defiance, or any of the other shooter mmo's?
Basically, why wait for a little content update, when you can jump ship to another game, and get a 100% brand new experience.
The only thing keeping some games like WoW with the same numbers, is the community grew familiar with each other. it's the social familiarity that keeps those people there.
As a gamer I've noticed this trend to more mediocre MMO's .
Anecdote isn't premise.
But if you begin with this anecdote, without jumping directly to the conclusion in the very next sentence, we're willing to entertain the conversation, fair enough?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
So? If it is fun, i don't see a problem.
And if you think wielding assault drivers is the same as wielding a sword, and playing in modern london is the same playing in Azeroth, then i think it is your problem.
We have superheroes MMO, Star Trek MMO .. and many other variety. The only sub-genre being monotonic is fantasy.
You may as well say all FPS are the same, all stealth games are the same, and all puzzle games are the same.
They are MMO´s but not sandbox games, so for most people they are the same as all the other MMo´s...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The problem is the publishers and the style of MMO. The last 8 years it's all been WoW clones (or the politically correct term, themeparks), and those need a massive amount of content to keep them from losing people faster than they gain. Only WoW really has enough marketing budget and presence to keep their numbers high. (though the untold story is they bleed most of their players pretty quickly)
Devs and publishers don't realize that the content they keeps people sticking around are the other players. The more and more MMOs try to be singleplayer games, the faster they die.
TSW was different, but it was still a singleplayer game pretending to be an MMO, and as soon as the content ran out, the people left.
GW2 is probably the only semi themepark game that isn't doing too bad, and that's a combination of slightly fresh ideas, one time fee, and above all, they make you interact with other players (albeit, only superficially)
It's a mixture of things like an economic climate where no one has the resources spare to take risks,the stock market system that also makes companies risk adverse,
Then there's the changing player base that don't want hardcore MMORPG ideals or are even looking for a game to play long term(More than month or two),They don't want virtual worlds or long term goals they want bite sized gaming and easy to earn/buy shinies.The F2P model is perfect for this and game design has changed to reflect it.Many of us here hate the direction that has been taken but we are a minority in the MMORPG market now.
Of course there are many copy and paste MMORPGs made cheaply and made to make a quick profit mostly from Asia but this is something that happens in all industries.
That's because XL Games marked it all wrong.
Unless the graphics are hyper-realistic and using the latest GPU techniques, an MMO will come under fire for having 'outdated' or 'kiddie' graphics. They could have avoided that with a few marketing changes.
First, pitch the development not by XL Games but by "Jake Song, a developer who broke away from NCSoft after leading development on the blockbuster title Lineage to design a more creative and less mainstream game experience." Then make a point to talk about your small, close-knit team. Be sure to position yourself against The Man, and talk about the freedom you have not having your hands tied by greedy investors, money-grubbing publisher, or corporate micromanagement.
With the PR machine now in full force, you can unload the most visually horrifying piece of crap imaginable and you will have thousands that will defend you to death over it, armed with the highroad of "gameplay over graphics," resolute in their support for the underdog. If you do have a decent graphics team, all the better, because now you can release stylized graphics and, because you are the underdog, you will have that rabid legion - the same ones who would have ripped apart the graphics had they come from SOE, NCSoft or EA - defending your choice to dare to do something different and break from the mold.
XL Games missed a golden opportunity.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
ArcheAge has some of the best graphics I have ever seen in a mmo. I just love the look of an open seamless realistic looking world. That's why to me Lineage 2 still today has the best looking game world of any mmo out but that's just my opinion. To each his own I guess.
I don't think that most MMOs on the market are "mediocre". I enjoy playing them and get more entertainment per dollar value out of them than a typical single player game. Sure there are plenty of mediocre F2P MMOs, but I think most of us could care less about those and I doubt that's what people bring up. I don't see what the problem is here. Bioware didn't research the MMO market very well if they thought 180 hours of content was going to last players 3 or 4 months. People need to stop going under the false assumption that a MMO is suppose to last you years of playability and just enjoy the MMOs and move on when you get bored. Gone are the days of either choosing Everquest, FFXI, or Ultima Online. We have options now, lots of options.
As for "certain" players ranting and causing public rejection of the game I don't see it. You have plenty of people on the other side of the coin defending any flaw a game might have. There are certainly a few trolls who want nothing to do to then complain, but I think the majority of the public perception of a game isn't influenced at all by a general public's opinion of something (look at how well Transformer movies tend to do and how poor they do with critics). Word of mouth is a factor, but if word of mouth is overwhelmingly negative than that's certainly more of a problem that likely wasn't caused by "certain" players.
I find it strange that players view many of the games listed here as failures when they are doing well (even exceptionally well) in terms of sales and subs, especially when I see a few posters who were defending some of those games for months whenever someone criticized something about said game. Now they are going to turn around and criticize those games and call them failures because they stopped playing those games? That's really hypocritical.
Chuckle, Hop aboard the skeptic train, you can sit in the window seat.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
No, you can still get years of playability out of some titles if you have the mindset for it.
Unfortunately, everyone decides their favorite way is the only way, puts on the team jerseys, and starts ripping everything that doesn't meet the home teams political platform.
Give me a serious roleplaying game (you think your hopes have been ignored by the industry for a long time now?) again, sand or park, and I'm there. I'll wear both jerseys, ifn I gotta.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've never been polled by any marketer (except possibly here, viral marketers?) about an mmo. Designers haven't ever worked that way, anywhere, to my knowledge.
But I don't know, maybe somewhere? Guys?
A truth, or ForumTruth?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Because publishers get involved. TSW was going to be singleplayer. NWN was going to be online multiplayer. But publishers get involved and bastardize the game by forcing some basic MMO functionality, just to justify the monthly fee. SWTOR would have been a great Kotor 3, but now its both a horrible singleplayer game AND a horrible MMO.
I've filled them out when leaving MMO's. I would like to say several several MMO's several times, I don't recall though. I know I"ve filled out a survey every time I've left WoW so several times on that one. I think I've done it on EQ2 though as well can't recall.
Hmm i think games like ArcheAge and Age Of Wushu have quite a few unique features.
Offline feature of AOW
Prison Systems of both games.
Bounty System of both games, especially AOW Yes we have had a bounty system in western MMO's but nothing compared to both these games, not even close.
kidnapping System of Age Of Wushu
The list goes on.
If these things were in a western mmo we wouldn't hear the last of it.
I'm not saying these are the best mmo's ever made but to imply that they are more of the same is a bit of a stretch.
I don't know one western mmo where an instanced boss can call on actual players to help him defend his dungeon or where certain skills will change your appearance permantly.
Wait .. what monthly fee? There is none for TSW, nor NWO.
TSW and NWO would both be fine games without the MMO elements. In fact, the worst part of NWO is to walk all the public zones to the actual story instance. I would much prefer to get there by a lobby. Walking the same city around bunch of players again and again is just a chore to me.
And did you get what you asked Santa for?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Anyway, here is the right answer.
Not anymore there isn't. Because that's not how you make a good MMO. But by forcing some sort of always online requirement by making a frankenstein MMO, you can charge way more than if you made a good singleplayer game.
Do they? NWO is designed as a F2P game from the ground up. They certainly are not getting a dime from me, and no where close to what i will pay for a SP game.
There are a lot of problems, but its certainly not the consumers responsibility to make an MMO successful. And the developers are certainly not doing well.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
As a gamer I've noticed this trend to more mediocre MMO's . The fault does rest with the Devs. The reasons being . Chasing the WOW formula. What is that formula ? It has more to do with accessibility at this point then anything else. That game is highly accessible , you don't need much to play the game , short of a hamster and screen ( exaggeration ) . The point being it's not a high resource game.
The other factor is consoles. In the drive to make MMO's more appealing to a larger population it had to be easily accessible and appealing to the console gen of players. Simpler is and always will be better. This gen is more about running through content then puzzles. Even though the puzzles don't present much of a challenge anymore , thanks to google and youtube.
In all fairness gamers were I believe more serious ( or should I say dedicated ? )back in the day. Good luck putting a 75 man raid together nowadays or even 40 man. Makes games more accessible has had the consequence of dropping the level to the lowest common denominator. Devs have responded accordingly , until it became this vicious circle. People are basically lazy and the devs have corresponding become so.
Nope it's the players fault, and the markets fault.
Players are at fault
1. base your expectations on what features on what an mmo should contain based off what a game you played for 5 to 10 years had when it went tits up. Don't think about how many expansions, and updates aforementioned game had in it's time span, just hold the next game accountable to somehow have 5-10 years of content at launch.
2. Gamer's expectations are stupid. Take any game, mix the best features from every game you've ever played, and expect the one game coming out to incorporate all of them.
3. Gamer's are as unified as the panel on any Jerry Springer episode. They can all agree that a game sucks, and they are united as hell voicing their complaints with other's that are complaining about other features. Now, ask that same unified group what the game needs, and they are torn apart instantly(sandbox features, more themepark features, less PvP, more PvP and on and on). The only thing gamer's will agree on, is publisher hate, but ask about a specific gameplay mechanic, or game feature, and they are instantly on opposite sides. What can a developer do when they have any given 100 gamers, all wanting 100 different things.
4. Complaining about games, is the new trendy hip thing to do. It's more important for jackwads to spend their days hating a game(lets say guildwars 2) rather than playing another game. I don't like GW2, but I don't post about it, cause I don't f****** play it.(that and I'm a FPS guy-planetside/star citizen type stuff). I don't post "GW2 would be so much better if it was in first person, and came with rifles". Doesn't stop a lot of people from posting their stupid "what this game needs" cries.
Market
There is a ton of options, why limit your self to one game that your done with.
Why should anyone stick with a game for more than six months, there is a completely new game always coming out, with all brand new stuff to check out. You could probably try a new online game every day for the next year, why stick with any of them. Why wait for SWTOR to add a new planet, when there will be another game thats 100% new to you. Why stick with GW2 waiting on the next micro update, when there is more games in the same genre always coming out with different stuff to check out. Why keep playing planetside 2 when you can try out defiance, or any of the other shooter mmo's?
Basically, why wait for a little content update, when you can jump ship to another game, and get a 100% brand new experience.
The only thing keeping some games like WoW with the same numbers, is the community grew familiar with each other. it's the social familiarity that keeps those people there.
Anecdote isn't premise.
But if you begin with this anecdote, without jumping directly to the conclusion in the very next sentence, we're willing to entertain the conversation, fair enough?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.