I do not believe and most certainly do not hope that Destiny is the wave of the future. While i will buy the PC version when released reading and watching over 30 reviews made apparent to me that Activision invested heavily on Bungie's name and millions of dollars into promo in order to present the game as something never seen before which clearly isn't the case. And this shows in the reviews Destiny receives. With the exception of some media who's reviewers wet their pants by just seeing a good fps title the rest give Bungie's game mediocre to good ratings. This will steer away potential Activision "wannabes".
Originally posted by Dibdabs Once you've played a couple of FPS games you've basically played them all.
One could say that about all the genres. Not just FPS games. Not very insightful.
i would say that is true ONLY because of a lack of innovation.
There is nothing intrinsic about FPS that makes all FPS the same. Although in fairness applying such a narrow definition for a game is in fact implying exactly that.
I wouldn't say there is a lack of innovation. There's been quite a bit of back-end innovation, such as server technology and databases, within the MMO genre, and other genres as well. Persistence for DayZ is an example, although it's not really new and it's been around before that.
There's been quite a few innovations in the MMO genre too. Megaservers, action combat, AOE looting, Dynamic Events, etc. Yes, i know some of these have been around for a long time, but they have evolved within the genre so we're used to it by now, even though they were new and we never realized it.
As for Destiny, i seriously doubt it would be the standard for anything, because it's primarily a console game. Those games will always be restricted due to the limitations of the hardware. It'll never be like WoW, which has so many clones. I don't ever see doznes of clones popping up for Destiny.
I was in Game the other morning and have known the manager for a long time we always have chat and talk about random crap and I asked what he thought of destiny and he pointed out he had already exchanged his copy and that they have had quite a lot of copy's exchanged I think he said the store already had almost 30 pre own copy's for sale I no it doesn't sound like a lot but that's one store. If that's happening everywhere else that's a lot of unhappy customers.
No. The game is not good enough. It's like one of those blockbuster movies that everyone imagines is good - and every goes to check out but it sucks - so second weekend sales tank.
Its cool if you and others dont like it, there is no game that literally "everyone" will like but there are plenty of people that are enjoying it and think its a great game. This game is getting the same type of hate WoW always gets because of its popularity. Everyone always hate on the cool new popular kid in school.
The devs made back its 500 million on day one than another 325 million off of customer sales within 5 days
Value of boxes shipped to retailers has nothing to do with how much money Activision gets from retailers. Total gross sales is the value of all boxes sold, not how much money activision gets from the sales. Total budget for the game isn't cost for making the game.
Its typical of Activision and other big publishers to use inflated numbers to generate more hype, and it works. However, no matter how you try to spin numbers it doesn't tell how good the game is, and that's why the blockbuster analogy fits perfect. The only thing I disagree with is that all blockbusters are bad, some of them can be really entertaining.
they made 325 million off of customer sales as shown in that link
No. The game is not good enough. It's like one of those blockbuster movies that everyone imagines is good - and every goes to check out but it sucks - so second weekend sales tank.
Its cool if you and others dont like it, there is no game that literally "everyone" will like but there are plenty of people that are enjoying it and think its a great game. This game is getting the same type of hate WoW always gets because of its popularity. Everyone always hate on the cool new popular kid in school.
The devs made back its 500 million on day one than another 325 million off of customer sales within 5 days
Value of boxes shipped to retailers has nothing to do with how much money Activision gets from retailers. Total gross sales is the value of all boxes sold, not how much money activision gets from the sales. Total budget for the game isn't cost for making the game.
Its typical of Activision and other big publishers to use inflated numbers to generate more hype, and it works. However, no matter how you try to spin numbers it doesn't tell how good the game is, and that's why the blockbuster analogy fits perfect. The only thing I disagree with is that all blockbusters are bad, some of them can be really entertaining.
they made 325 million off of customer sales as shown in that link
Destiny sold for $325M, bungie/activision didn't make $325M. Huge difference.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Ok so a non mmo is doing okay? Whoopee frickin doo. Why is this instances game being discussed in an mmo forum? I rarely come here anymore because even some of the staff here at mmorpg.com don't know what an mmo is, let alone the posters.
Ok so a non mmo is doing okay? Whoopee frickin doo. Why is this instances game being discussed in an mmo forum? I rarely come here anymore because even some of the staff here at mmorpg.com don't know what an mmo is, let alone the posters.
What does this have to do with mmos? Or even better... why do I keep coming here when most posts aren't mmo related such as this one, and even some of the staff don't know what an mmo is.... I guess that's why I browse maybe only once a month now... sigh
No. The game is not good enough. It's like one of those blockbuster movies that everyone imagines is good - and every goes to check out but it sucks - so second weekend sales tank.
Its cool if you and others dont like it, there is no game that literally "everyone" will like but there are plenty of people that are enjoying it and think its a great game. This game is getting the same type of hate WoW always gets because of its popularity. Everyone always hate on the cool new popular kid in school.
The devs made back its 500 million on day one than another 325 million off of customer sales within 5 days
Value of boxes shipped to retailers has nothing to do with how much money Activision gets from retailers. Total gross sales is the value of all boxes sold, not how much money activision gets from the sales. Total budget for the game isn't cost for making the game.
Its typical of Activision and other big publishers to use inflated numbers to generate more hype, and it works. However, no matter how you try to spin numbers it doesn't tell how good the game is, and that's why the blockbuster analogy fits perfect. The only thing I disagree with is that all blockbusters are bad, some of them can be really entertaining.
Blockbusters can be absolutely entertaining sure.. I am talking about failed blockbusters the kind that fall off the map..after a quick start. For example X-Man wolverine..
Not the worst movie ever - but not as great as fans imagined either. Huge drop off in second week - because movie was not that good. You can only fool people so much - word of mouth gets around.
People forget that an MMO like WoW wasn't actually that big at the beginning. But word of mouth really grew it and a very good pace. The best recommendation a game or any kind of software can get is from a friend of a player.
If someone I know was telling me Destiny - its unbelievable you have to go play it - I'd probably go out and get it - especially if this player had put in a lot of hours.
People always take the word of their friends and family as a much stronger recommendation then advertising and even media coverage. Once a game is out - and people are still raving about it - that's the time to go out and get it..
Unfortunately game making is a lot like making movies nowadays - its big production - its a lot of money involved and you can't really tell if its going to work by the actors or features involved. Sometime it falls apart in strange ways that you couldn't really guess.
Originally posted by madazz Ok so a non mmo is doing okay? Whoopee frickin doo. Why is this instances game being discussed in an mmo forum? I rarely come here anymore because even some of the staff here at mmorpg.com don't know what an mmo is, let alone the posters.
Because many MMOs are instanced games now?
Example: WoT, LoL, Vindictus.
Oh, we all know .. .why do you think there is discussions about the broadening of the definition of MMO? If we do not know, there is no need to broaden.
Retailiers have 325 million dollars of licenses - that's not that same as selling 325 million dollars worth of games.
Destiny has put activision an estimated half billion in the hole (marketing and development) - so even if they sold that many games they would still be behind the 8 ball.
I remember how SWTOR came out of the gate like gangbusters... Businesses need to think of things like cost of customer acquisition...not just raw revenue. SWTOR had big initial success but then people decided they didn't like it - and they quit. And they didn't tell their friends to start playing either..
Minecraft is the opposite of this - no hype - just word of mouth and now its worth 2.5 billion. Lots of people think that companies can 'hype' or 'sell' to 'stupid sheep.' But this is not really true. After the initial start - the game has to b e good to do well - its just like a blockbuster movie.
Destiny sold for $325M, bungie/activision didn't make $325M. Huge difference.
Within 5 days tell me how many mmos did that so far, thats almost 1/4 of a billion dollars.
I don't know any MMO with Destiny's kind of budget. Its games like Call of duty and halo that beats those sales numbers, and its those crowd that bought Destiny. Bungie is making an mmo version of halo, greatest game ever!!!
You are the reason why Activision throws around numbers, that quality of the game is based on how much it sells. Transformers 2 was better than transformers 1 because it had much bigger initial sales.
As GuyClinch was saying, blockbuster games.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
a week of fun is great. You can always move onto the next game. I prefer quality (fun) over quantity (long time).
one point I think that you both missed in the importance of differentiating factors.
If the game plays and basically looks EXACTLY like other games in my collection why would I want to play it?
well I might actually..case in point GTA 4 vs GTA 5 HOWEVER, GTA 5 is no no way the 'wave of the future' In fact in this example it would be the RESULT of GTA 4 not a wave
Fun and a great quality, i saw so many MMO fail cause of many many bugs look at eso they have tons of bugs and they want monthly subs and had a great budget. In destiny i do not feel like a betatester.
If you play destiny you know every thing in the game is designed very well and it is playable with no or only minor bugs. That is something i will pay for, cause they do there job very well.
What they dint make well was the story, but this point i can not judge now cause maybe the story will get exiting with the next updates.
Fun and a great quality, i saw so many MMO fail cause of many many bugs look at eso they have tons of bugs and they want monthly subs and had a great budget. In destiny i do not feel like a betatester.
If you play destiny you know every thing in the game is designed very well and it is playable with no or only minor bugs. That is something i will pay for, cause they do there job very well.
What they dint make well was the story, but this point i can not judge now cause maybe the story will get exiting with the next updates.
I am not saying Destiny is a bad game. I dont know if it is or not I am not playing it becasue I do not see anything interesting about it. What I AM saying however. is...
Destiny is NOT the wave of the future its the RESULT of OTHER games being the wave of the future.
In order to be 'the wave of the future' you need to be being something new to the table otherwise the 'wave of the future' is 'no change at all'
I think folks are placing wayyy too much emphasis on the number of copies sold.
It has no competition on the next-gen consoles, specifically the PS4. Even a saltine cracker tastes like a feast when you're starving.
It has Bungie's name behind it.
It has Activision's money and marketing prowess.
It was hyped to the moon and back.
It's a solid game, but if it hadn't been Bungie/Activision hyping and developing it, it would've sold no better than Titanfall or Watch Dogs, and it would've received the same reviews. It lacks the depth of loot shooters such as Borderlands, the story of games such as The Last of Us, and fails to connect the narrative to the character, like Bioshock.
It's a fun little "get together with friends and pew pew," but it's in no way deserving of "wave of the future" or 9 and 10-point reviews.
... and who says everything needs to be new. Just the amount of details and polish will carry far.
LoL is not the first MOBA and yet it created a new genre. Wow is not the first MMO but it changes the genre. There are plenty of example that you don't have to do it first .. just have to do it well.
A generic IP?
Online matchmaking with 3 or 6 players and 0 communication with players you see around the world?
Sorry, the game is definitely a regular FPS, I'd rather play Borderlands.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
Destiny sold for $325M, bungie/activision didn't make $325M. Huge difference.
Within 5 days tell me how many mmos did that so far, thats almost 1/4 of a billion dollars.
The sales numbers aren't even being compared to existing MMORPGs, but to games that have broken every gaming sales record that has existed. Other MMORPGs aren't even in the same ball park with Destiny in terms of how many people have purchased the game. At each person spending $125, that's 2.6 million people who have started playing the game. If the average sale per person is $90, they are up to 3.6 million people. They are talking more along the lines of 5 million people at an average of $65 a person though.
The question isn't whether or not Destiny is the wave of the future, the question is what lessons are developers going to learn from Destiny? MMORPGs can be released on consoles? Shooters sell better than RPGs? Allow single player, instanced story line content in games that are MMORPGs? What will the lesson(s) be?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
I wouldn't say there is a lack of innovation. There's been quite a bit of back-end innovation, such as server technology and databases, within the MMO genre, and other genres as well. Persistence for DayZ is an example, although it's not really new and it's been around before that.
There's been quite a few innovations in the MMO genre too. Megaservers, action combat, AOE looting, Dynamic Events, etc. Yes, i know some of these have been around for a long time, but they have evolved within the genre so we're used to it by now, even though they were new and we never realized it.
As for Destiny, i seriously doubt it would be the standard for anything, because it's primarily a console game. Those games will always be restricted due to the limitations of the hardware. It'll never be like WoW, which has so many clones. I don't ever see doznes of clones popping up for Destiny.
they made 325 million off of customer sales as shown in that link
Destiny sold for $325M, bungie/activision didn't make $325M. Huge difference.
Blockbusters can be absolutely entertaining sure.. I am talking about failed blockbusters the kind that fall off the map..after a quick start. For example X-Man wolverine..
Not the worst movie ever - but not as great as fans imagined either. Huge drop off in second week - because movie was not that good. You can only fool people so much - word of mouth gets around.
People forget that an MMO like WoW wasn't actually that big at the beginning. But word of mouth really grew it and a very good pace. The best recommendation a game or any kind of software can get is from a friend of a player.
If someone I know was telling me Destiny - its unbelievable you have to go play it - I'd probably go out and get it - especially if this player had put in a lot of hours.
People always take the word of their friends and family as a much stronger recommendation then advertising and even media coverage. Once a game is out - and people are still raving about it - that's the time to go out and get it..
Unfortunately game making is a lot like making movies nowadays - its big production - its a lot of money involved and you can't really tell if its going to work by the actors or features involved. Sometime it falls apart in strange ways that you couldn't really guess.
Because many MMOs are instanced games now?
Example: WoT, LoL, Vindictus.
Oh, we all know .. .why do you think there is discussions about the broadening of the definition of MMO? If we do not know, there is no need to broaden.
Within 5 days tell me how many mmos did that so far, thats almost 1/4 of a billion dollars.
actually how many GAMES did that? Probably not more than a handful.
Retailiers have 325 million dollars of licenses - that's not that same as selling 325 million dollars worth of games.
Destiny has put activision an estimated half billion in the hole (marketing and development) - so even if they sold that many games they would still be behind the 8 ball.
I remember how SWTOR came out of the gate like gangbusters... Businesses need to think of things like cost of customer acquisition...not just raw revenue. SWTOR had big initial success but then people decided they didn't like it - and they quit. And they didn't tell their friends to start playing either..
Minecraft is the opposite of this - no hype - just word of mouth and now its worth 2.5 billion. Lots of people think that companies can 'hype' or 'sell' to 'stupid sheep.' But this is not really true. After the initial start - the game has to b e good to do well - its just like a blockbuster movie.
I don't know any MMO with Destiny's kind of budget. Its games like Call of duty and halo that beats those sales numbers, and its those crowd that bought Destiny. Bungie is making an mmo version of halo, greatest game ever!!!
You are the reason why Activision throws around numbers, that quality of the game is based on how much it sells. Transformers 2 was better than transformers 1 because it had much bigger initial sales.
As GuyClinch was saying, blockbuster games.
yeah, for about a week or so
a week of fun is great. You can always move onto the next game. I prefer quality (fun) over quantity (long time).
one point I think that you both missed in the importance of differentiating factors.
If the game plays and basically looks EXACTLY like other games in my collection why would I want to play it?
well I might actually..case in point GTA 4 vs GTA 5 HOWEVER, GTA 5 is no no way the 'wave of the future' In fact in this example it would be the RESULT of GTA 4 not a wave
Fun and a great quality, i saw so many MMO fail cause of many many bugs look at eso they have tons of bugs and they want monthly subs and had a great budget. In destiny i do not feel like a betatester.
If you play destiny you know every thing in the game is designed very well and it is playable with no or only minor bugs. That is something i will pay for, cause they do there job very well.
What they dint make well was the story, but this point i can not judge now cause maybe the story will get exiting with the next updates.
I am not saying Destiny is a bad game. I dont know if it is or not I am not playing it becasue I do not see anything interesting about it. What I AM saying however. is...
Destiny is NOT the wave of the future its the RESULT of OTHER games being the wave of the future.
In order to be 'the wave of the future' you need to be being something new to the table otherwise the 'wave of the future' is 'no change at all'
I think folks are placing wayyy too much emphasis on the number of copies sold.
It has no competition on the next-gen consoles, specifically the PS4. Even a saltine cracker tastes like a feast when you're starving.
It has Bungie's name behind it.
It has Activision's money and marketing prowess.
It was hyped to the moon and back.
It's a solid game, but if it hadn't been Bungie/Activision hyping and developing it, it would've sold no better than Titanfall or Watch Dogs, and it would've received the same reviews. It lacks the depth of loot shooters such as Borderlands, the story of games such as The Last of Us, and fails to connect the narrative to the character, like Bioshock.
It's a fun little "get together with friends and pew pew," but it's in no way deserving of "wave of the future" or 9 and 10-point reviews.
hmm .. does it look EXACTLY like other games?
best I can tell yes.
A generic IP?
Online matchmaking with 3 or 6 players and 0 communication with players you see around the world?
Sorry, the game is definitely a regular FPS, I'd rather play Borderlands.
The sales numbers aren't even being compared to existing MMORPGs, but to games that have broken every gaming sales record that has existed. Other MMORPGs aren't even in the same ball park with Destiny in terms of how many people have purchased the game. At each person spending $125, that's 2.6 million people who have started playing the game. If the average sale per person is $90, they are up to 3.6 million people. They are talking more along the lines of 5 million people at an average of $65 a person though.
The question isn't whether or not Destiny is the wave of the future, the question is what lessons are developers going to learn from Destiny? MMORPGs can be released on consoles? Shooters sell better than RPGs? Allow single player, instanced story line content in games that are MMORPGs? What will the lesson(s) be?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
which one?