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You simply cannot discuss deep old school mmorpg elements with newer mmo players.
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I have to say based on your recollection of EQ, you were probably playing the game wrong. I had a pretty extensive friends list, and a guild at all times on both the servers I played on (pve and pvp). I would send tells to people on my friends list when I logged on, or put a message in guild and almost always find a group or a potential spot. Sometimes I'd go to the group and help them out and wait for that spot to open, but generally I would duo or trio with randoms if all else failed. When I didn't I would work on crafting, or a quest that I could work on solo which generally involved a lot of traveling around the world.
Yea so what? Who made these rules? Maybe people should adjust and keep a more open mind. Maybe its the failure to understand that is the issue more then anything.
Yea I was in a huge guild and had no issues finding one maybe because the community was amazing and they knew me from grouping with them a few times.
And if they did, some, like me, may find that the cost of socialization, prestige and renown for crafters are a very small costs to pay for a much better game.
Haha very cute you talking about others having an open mind...its not that somebody "made" these rules. Its common sense, you dont know what anyone else thinks let along an entire community or group. And to think you do is completely ignorant.
And you are right people like you who think they know what an entire community wants, thinks or feels is a huge issue in today's MMORPGS.
That is why you see them changing .. and making convenience a priority.
Why would i play MMOs when it is not more fun but requires more of my time? In fact, devs already realize that many players won't stick to a single time anymore and they change their designs to accommodate.
LoL "newer mmorpg player". If anything, this is a case where another "mmo vet" waxes nostalgic over the games they played as a youth and proclaims them to be superior to anything available today. I played most of those early mmo's when they were new, in the late 1990's and early 2000's. Hate to break it to you, but if a game like WoW, even in it's current state, released at the same time as your beloved EQ, it would have curb stomped EQ and any other mmo with ease. As much as I have a soft spot for the early mmo's I played years ago, esp. swg, I'm not naive enough to think they any were better than what's around today. The only people that think that way are hipsters who don't like anything new and just want updated graphics for their Precious. Like I said, too cool for school.
Btw, anyone who refers to themselves as an "mmo vet" or some variation thereof, should, right now, step away from the computer, raise your hand high above your head then bring it down hard right into your junk.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Anyone that starts their post with the old "your spelling and grammer blaa blaa blaa" has major issues of their own to work through.
Well its ignorant to assume I do think this way, I never stated I knew how an entire community feels, but there is no doubt there are people who are like this and have this attitude in a forum. It is not common sense to be a jerk, its more common sense to keep an open mind if anything that should be more given these days.
Except there are more casual mmorpgs that have been out like dcuo, or even wow can be played casually but it doesnt mean everyone is happy with how casual friendly mmorpgs have become. What is so bad about playing single player rpgs if you want to play an rpg? I can understand why someone might want a glorified chat room but why torture yourself with a bad single player mmorpg when you can play something way better like dragon age or the witcher?
The point of games is gratification. If you take a gratifying game and delay gratification, you haven't made gaming better, you've actually made it worse. Compared with all the gratifying games out at the time (see prevous post), early MMORPGs were a big step backwards, mostly for the sake of the almighty dollar.
When a designer takes 1,000 XP to level and changes it to 1,000,000 XP to level, there is no actual gameplay improvement being made. Meanwhile we should've been extremely suspicious when that sort of thing started happening -- taking literally several magnitudes more time to get through the game -- in the exact same games that had started charging for time (subscriptions).
When a designer creates a challenging encounter, that's great.
When a designer takes that encounter and makes it excessively penalizing if you fail, there is no actual gameplay improvement being made. Gameplay is basically anything requiring skill (decisions and the execution of those decisions.) Good challenges require skill. Penalties often don't (or require considerably less skill than typical play; either way, they're a strong net-negative to the amount of skill a game involves.)
So the above are the basic guidelines which explain why early MMORPGs evolved in the direction they did. They really just started as an aberration to gaming and it was a testament to the underlying idea of a MMORPG that they did well at all. And once they became stronger games, that's when they really took off.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
OP, I agree. the older games required grouping and the classes had their role. Nowadays many games have multiple classes that can heal, CC, speed buff, w/e you want, they got a little bit of it. It is lame, and homogenous. That's why the games are homogenous.
It is the developers thinking too deeply in the wrong area like "how can we get people to play are game, as we don't want them waiting around LFG so lets make it so they can immediately gain EXP just as fast solo as they can in a group". Well anyways, MMO's in general probably won't go bck to EQ, Ultima, or DAOC type of gameplay in general BUT we might get lucky and get a handful in the coming years that try to take a page from the old school MMO's, like Camelot Unchained.
What's this solo content people talk about.
After those 50 hours of solo tutorial, everything after is group content.
Maybe you are just too casual for mmorpg.
Except the point of instant gratification is just that instant gratification, and no the only difference is not the delay at all its all the rewards you get on the way in older mmorpgs there was more including alternate advancements the problem with instant gratification mmorpgs is they lack actual leveling choices most of the time and are very linear and barely able to keep the rpg genre in title alone. Its also the more encouraged group content, yea there is more delay it isnt even about that its about the rewarding progression system and group rich content on the way its more about the journey.
And im sick to death of people jumping to assumptions of what people mean about mmorpgs, no one said older mmorpgs didnt have flaws. It doesnt mean newer ones arent flawed if not worse. And it certainly doesnt excuse the attitude of younger gen gamers.
Exactly, and that is also why there will likely be a gaming crash in general because no one takes notes from older games and instead alienates players with shallow design. The fact is you need a balance of older ideas and newer ideas, human beings always tend to go to one extreme to another and ill never understand that.
And to the other poster yea end game is about grouping but thats less fun to me because I actually enjoy getting new abilities and leveling figuring out my classes as I level, instead of just rushing to end game. Take eq2 for example it has an alternate advancement system which keeps end game interesting and you can level it before end game then you have a very in depth crafting system with lots of collections.
Why does it even matter. Getting to level cap takes like no time.
In all my mmorpg I played I always have thousands of playing hours. Why even care about 50 hours of solo leveling. That's not the main point anyway.
I can ask any of my guildmates in almost any game. Everyone have thousands of playing hours. Who even care about leveling.
I wasn't aiming it at you,have you never heard the lame ass argument 'casual games are the way to go,when I first played mmorpg I could play for 8+ hours a day,now I have kids' ? I hear it all the time.
Lets make every single game for these people because of course the universe revolves around them... Anyway it is beside the point,there will never be a great mmorpg where you have to invest time to make a great character adventure or crafting because the developers just aim to the lowest common denominator.5 year old's need to be able to be maximum level and raid in 2 days too you know?
The fact that you even compare a game like WoW with classic EQ means you just don't get it, so your opinion is pretty much invalidated.
They were apples and oranges. I don't doubt for a second that WoW would have still appealed to a larger audience, but WoW never would have curb stomped it because classic EQ stood on its own, very different merits. It was a virtual world, with heavy emphasis on the massively multiplayer aspect, providing a distinct sense of community and far more meaningful and challenging character progression starting at level 1. Even in vanilla thru pre WoTLK no one would have mistaken WoW for offering that experience.
Please do go on though relegating very specific, very tangible features, to simply nostalgia and rose colored memories.
It matters because its fun to people, and either your not reading properly or dont get it but im not talking about these new mmorpgs where its a very brief time to max level. And who are you to say the main point to an rpg? One of the key elements to an rpg is leveling and progressing.
If that person even read comments beyond the original post he would be able to understand it has nothing to do with nostalgia. I am one of the most objective gamers out there, and people really need to stop throwing assumptions around in this forum they have no clue what they are talking about.
Fine then explain your experience in playing it, explain the horrible things you dont like about it, tell me about the areas you where in and the class you played tell me what was so bad about it.