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Expansion: HoT overpriced for what you get?
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Simple solution: tell them to hold off buying the expansion. After "some period of time" I think we can be sure that it will come down in price bringing their total investment below $50.
Delivered electronically - via NCSoft's site - this would certainly be feasible.
Not for retail - as this would involve 2 different boxes for retailer to stock, 2 boxes to produce and distribute etc. Which would increase costs so just the single combo in stores.
No, check out the official Gw2 sales page - you can no longer buy Gw2. HoT and Gw2 are now the same item.
So if they lower the price to let's say 25$ then that still means my friends paid 35$ instead.
Hadn't gone to the site to check the details but $35 would be less than $60 though.
At the end of the day for $10 they got to play (experience") the game prior to the expansion.
And as I said above they could sell the xpacs at a discount online only; how that plays out with retailers though - shrug. Surprised they haven't gone that way though.
Thought I'd see more rants about the price here. I sympathize, and so I registered here to reply to some people who just don't get why people rant.
Like you, Nitth. It seems logic doesn't come naturally to you. Let's try to remedy that. And look past the insult (yes, that is an insult) you deserve it for being so stubbornly ignorant.
So what's going?
Buying the expac for $50 yields you a new account with the expac on top of that account. Great for new players. They buy one item for $50 and can start the game right away then play HoT when it comes.
Obviously, ANet doesn't only want new players to buy the expac before launch, they want existing players to buy it too (after all we are the biggest market for the expac). So, they are hoping existing players will buy into the more expensive deluxe version (because new players don't need an extra char slot, right?). Well, turns out you get a free account with the deluxe version too. Did we expect anything else? No.
How exactly, then, is ANet targeting its existing customer base?
Well, we can buy the expac to get a new account then play the expac on that new account? Sounds, well it sounds a bit off. Alternatively, we can buy the expac and ignore the new account in favor of upgrading our main account? Sounds more like it, except why ditch a free account, right? It just doesn't make sense (5 char slots, more bag space, more bank space, extra monthly login rewards = lots of gold).
This is the reason for the outrage (the $50 price point fueled it, but did in no way help start the outrage). New players get a lot of value at pre-purchase (a whole game, plus an expac) while veteran players are at best ignored, at worst confronted with an unwanted predicament (discard a free account, or play HoT on a new account) with no added incentive to pre-purchase except for a title "Maguuma Trailblazer".
Sure, you may choose call the existing players entitled for hoping that they'd at least get some incentive to pre-purchase. Well that's not really it. It's not about feeling like you deserved something because you already paid a lot, it's about being part of a community - playing a game - and then being ignored by ANet marketing because you'll certainly pre-purchase the expansion anyway (because why wouldn't you? You want those elite specs. You want to try that new class. You want 3 more maps, right?).
That is the issue at hand, and it can easily be rectified by adding some incentive on the base package when adding the upgrade on top of an existing account. Then, of course they would need to apologize for being insensitive to their player base.
But it's not over yet.
You still have one claimant in this debacle. The people whom ANet bait-switched with $10 dollar account purchases "in preparation of the expansion", many of which will not get a refund because the purchases happened months ago. They most likely knew even at that point that they would be adding the base game as a free bonus on top of the expansion, so why would they then go on to have these discounted sales saying "oh you need the base game to play the expansion"; player goes "oh ok, well it's $10 so might as well buy now", 3 months later ANet goes "Hey you can just buy the expansion and we'll throw in an account for ya". <- Turns out you didn't need to buy an account to play the expansion after all.
Does that make more sense for you? Do you want me to ELY5? I can if this wasn't clear enough.
Anyone can get games cheaper just by waiting. The community was undecided and I suggested to buy now because the base game will never get cheaper.
That's what Anet made it look like before they ninja'ed their faq.
What new players get (in a 3 year old game) has nothing to do with veterans players feeling neglected. Veterans has gotten 3 years worth of features and updates for free. Many of the games systems favor play over long time which favors existing players, just like all the achivements, content, rewards and gameplay new players cant get.
If you want a extra character slot, then covert the gold to gems, and buy the character slot with in game gold. I just checked - It's 138 gold, which is easily gotten by just playing.
This is a classic MMORPG.com forum twist.
So if you don't subscribe to SWTOR(like in GW2), you don't get the SWTOR expac for free? So how much is it for f2p players? Also, you realize you are still paying for the SWTOR expac right? Only it's in installments of $15 a month, for as long as you play the game. When you stop giving EA money (cancel your sub), they stop giving you an Expac to play. When I stop giving Anet my money, I still have an Expac to play. Plus I can go play your game (SWTOR) for free. How you like them apples?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Not true. Once you unlock an expack, its yours. I'm currently not playing SWTOR but I'm pretty sure my account still has access to Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Housing.
The latest trick EA is pulling out of their hat is that ... all expacks cost money to unlock. And the upcoming one will have some sort of price tag (40-50-60) BUT it will be free if you are subscriber, you'll also get early access. Meaning, you'll unlock it first. And you can unsub then. You'll keep the update.
Funcom's F2P model about Issues is pretty much the same.
I see you lack in the reasoning department as well.
Let me try to ELY5.
It's not about what value we have gotten for the initial investment of $10-150. It's about a company wanting to sell an expansion before its imminent launch.
The company wants everyone to buy their expansion because they think it is great. Though they themselves know it is going to be great. They, like any company, understands that just explaining that it is great is not enough to make people want to pre-order their expansion. So they devise incentive packages, a package meant to help push you that much further towards a purchase.
New players get the Original game thrown in for free, so they don't need to make any extra purchases. That is cool. Basically, new players are looking at a relatively ok pay-wall (this depends on which country you are from, I know plenty of gamers to whom $50 is more than half their monthly wage but they are a minority, and the majority can accept $50 for both a game and its expac.).
Additionally, ANet throws in Beta access and an exclusive title to sweeten the deal.
Now we come to the question of existing GW2 players. What incentive do they get to pre-purchase, and exclusive title and beta access (a minority of players already have beta acccess). Assuming they don't start a new account in which case they get the same benefits of a new player.
ANet thought this sufficient because, after all, existing players are hyped for the expansion and we "know" they deliver premium content, and we're ok with discarding a free account to upgrade our current one, wait what? Not everybody are ok with this. Basically we get a free account, but we don't because we unlock access to the new content with it instead. While to some this sounds completely reasonable; it is not because it doesn't add up. You are looking at the intrinsic value of a new account vs. the value of the expac. and they are not 1 = 1. Furthermore as a "new" player you get more value for your purchase. It's like an airline offering their premium members a meal for $50 on one of their flights, but new customers who register now get both the meal and a seat for the same price. It will not sit well with the premium members no matter how you look at it.
And we are not even touching upon player retention vs. acquisition. In the MMO industry retention trumps acquisition if it was a zero game, because it's been proven again and again that the longer a player stays in an mmo the more likely it is that they will commit money to that mmo. The thing is acquisition vs. retention in this case was not a zero game. ANet could have given incentive to both new and existing players, but they chose to blatantly ignore existing players. In fact the presented them with a worse deal than new players, and that doesn't sit well with players who were looking forward to the expansion and who feels a part of the GW2 family.
It's not entitlement, and let me explain why. Entitlement means that you have laid down time/effort/money on a certain product/job/event and you feel entitled to some recognition for that. Often entitlement is justified, else you wouldn't commit yourself to much. It's like helping a friend, through doing so, you expect at least acknowledgement that you helped, if not help in return (I wouldn't call anyone I helped who just ignored my help a friend).
However the expansion debacle is not a case of entitlement, it's a case of misleading marketing, and inconsistent sales logic. Sure, many are suffering from wrongful entitlement. However the case I am arguing is not that we should get this or get that, it's the inconsistency. You pay for an acccount and an expac, but you don't get the account if you use an email that already has an account registered. Furthermore the company has up until now touted that you need a copy of the original game to play the expansion pack (and through that logic have held discounted sales events) only to revert their marketing stance and now not requiring an original copy of the game. We are talking a company that has abused a bait-switch tactic, and who seemingly cares for little else than first time purchase. A company like that doesn't deserve respect, nor customers. And as such many refuse to buy the expac./decry the company tactics in hope of them reverting the marketing stance to something a little more inclusive.
How much content does it entail? Better be a lot for the price of a whole new game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You're providing an oxymoron here. One big strawman in a incoherent ramble. Please read the entire thread. Most of what you bring up have already been addressed and debunked.
Furthermore, stop acting like people are in agreement about this. There is something annoyingly patronizing about you trying to stir this discussion into "inconsistent sales logic" territory.
Obviously the center of this entire thing is the perceived value of the expansion being 50 USD, and about new players getting the entire base game for free. This is the gist of it. Don't spin it around on all sorts of weird analogies that doesn't make sense in the context of what we are talking about.
Also, stop ignoring the fact that this is a 3 year old game, that has given significant gameplay and content benefits to people who have already purchased it AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT THE EXPANSION HAS NO RELEASE DATE. IT COULD STILL BE MONTHS AWAY, particularly from the sales that have been ongoing throughout the last year.
Removing responsibility from yourself while you already scored the base game at a significant sale is not a loss. You can play a quality product now that has a lot of value for a much cheaper price than what it normally costs, and everyone is free to not pre-order. It's an option. Not a demand.
It's a common theme not to pre-order that has been tackled on everything from total biscuit to south park. Vote with your wallet then, but cut back on the sensationalistic jibberish.
Nobody knows. They have shown 2 areas so far, and said the maps will work in biomes instead of making a large land mass. They insist that their regions are loaded with events within a smaller space.
As for the selling point of hard challenging content, they haven't shown anything yet. We don't even know what it is. If it's fractals, dungeons or world bosses.
All of this of course also signify how prematurely and unreasonable this entire debate is. We simply don't know yet.
Sorry, I tried my best at ELY5. It's not my strong suit. It's after all much easier to debate with someone who can understand arguments without putting words in my mouth.
Also please refrain from capitalizing full words; it's a headache to read. And before I forget, an argument cannot be an oxymoron. It can, however, be paradoxical.
While your argument makes some sense, it lacks in that you have simply discarded your opponent's arguments as entitled shit.
To break down what you are telling me is A: I should be arguing about the price more directly since I obviously hide discontent over the price in my arguments, and B: I refuse to take into account that I (might or might not) have been playing this game for 3 years, regardless I should understand that this factors into their marketing strategy of the expansion.
Let me try to frame what ANet is doing in different way: Some people are not getting refunds despite being led to believe that they got better value buying the game at their time of purchase instead of closer to the expansion, because after all they needed to have an account to buy the expansion. Regardless of how much they played until now (and enjoyed that content), the marketing tactic was misleading, and a class suit would have been won if people sued ANet over it.
That's one part of it. Now here's the other issue. Nothing is free. Nothing. Ever. The "free" account with the purchase of the expansion has to be paid by someone. ANet doesn't suddenly have loads of empty servers with no accounts populating them. The cost of an account has to be paid by someone. That someone are the players upgrading their existing account with HoT. For every purchase used to upgrade there is an unused account for another person to enjoy. Don't understand why? It's because the person who upgraded their existing account had the choice to either create a new account after purchase, or upgrade their existing account. Upgrading an existing account does not require any more server space than that player is currently taking up. Creating a new account requires a new entry in a database and so it requires physical space. The fact that as an existing user you pay for others to get free accounts is riling up a lot of players. In and of itself helping new players get into the game is great. The way ANet did it, is not great. They provide a subpar incentive for existing players to pre-purchase, while they provide a good incentive for new players to buy.
Like you say, we should vote with our wallet, and we do. We also like to voice our issue, so ANet are aware just why people are not buying. It would be ridiculous if we all voted with our wallets and ANet had to ask "why aren't you pre-purchasing?". Better that we voice our opinion. As most humans are emotional beings we tend to agitate easily if we are in a bad mood. The outrage you see is the natural result of shared discontent in places where people meet.
Is that explanation easier to swallow?
Anet has stressed several times that they are not holding back anything, and that they have shown all the features.
First of all,
Thank you for making an effort. Many people on this site unfortunately, don't try. So thank you. Great reply. You condensed it and I can follow it much more clearly.
I think you and me are on the same page on some of this stuff actually, but were I am coming from with the "vote with my wallet" is that I think (some people) are too aggressive in their tone. I don't preorder games myself and I never have (or it has been 5-10 years at least. I can't remember) and so I encourage people not to preorder.
Im also for constructive feedback, but if you look at the forums, reddit and the comments section under various gw2 e3 articles, people are not being constructive - They are being gross, extremist and toxic. A really crappy attitude to see, when this community otherwise is known for being a friend community.
For the other point, is the one you said about marketing - Putting your product on sale because you are trying to empty inventory, in an attempt to make way for a new product - It's something many MMORPGs have done. Particularly the games that ended up going F2P. I paid money for a whole bunch of games, that ended up going f2p relatively soon after. I wouldn't call that a bait and switch, simply because the release date has not been finalized, and simply because if I was a new player and I had a interest in GW2, I would start with GW2. I would wait with the expansion, so if I could get GW2 for 10 dollars, that is amazing value.
It's amazing value to be able to play a fantastic games for months, before HoT goes life. It sucks for those people who only bought GW2 on sale just for HoT. We can agree on that, but I don't think that was due to malice. I simply don't think ArenaNet has communicated properly, and like Valve, communicating with their players is something they struggle to find the balance with.
Had the GW2 sale been right before the release of the expansion, I would have agreed that it was a bait and switch. But I don't think it is, and I don't think you need to own the expansion to have fun. Many people didn't buy the campaigns or the expansion for GW1. And that is good. Because it should be a choice and not feel like an obligation.
I'm saying this because I'll argue that you don't need this expansion right away. One of my guildies is going to wait buying this until it is on sale. He'll pick up a key on amazon when it hits 30 dollars or something. That's fine. He gets access to a lot of the HoT content just by being a core player; WvW, sPvP, Guild Halls.
This is not correct though. What they said was that they have "announced" all the features, but as for showing features, they held a lot of things back, as you saw with this guild hall system. Nobody had any idea it would contain things like cross guild chat, an actual sandbox, a building decoration system, a new crafting building profession and so on.
Of the major features, they haven't shown hard challenging content. People don't know what it means. Some people expect hard instanced content that might be dungeon based, some say it's new fractals, others think it is world bosses like triple wurm and teq.
Furthermore, they haven't said anything about the new story. Only were it begins, from the beta. We haven't had any actual confirmation on if there will be new guild missions, treks, puzzles, bounties and so on. They have said those systems are being reworked as guild merit is getting canned.
Furthermore, they haven't showed us half the elite specializations (warrior, engineer, elementalist, revernant) or the last 1-2 legends for the revernant in itself. I would call of those major features they haven't shown.
nothing like a boatload of entitlement floating through a river of tears over the most insignificant thing, A.K.A. someone else getting a deal. Sounds like spoiled children whining away about someone else getting the toy even though it doesn't stop them from playing with what they already have.
Don't buy the expansion, Dont' play the game. Take your precious entitlement and go elsewhere. Let me and the rest of the people that appreciate what Anet has provided, pay the wages of the people that are working to create our entertainment. Go as far away as you can from this game, and may you always get the same appreciation for your efforts as you give to others.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Be specific and show where people are being entitled. People like you keep throwing this word around.
I own the game already but don't get as much as someone that doesn't own the game = I own the game already and therefore am entitled to a better deal.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I kind of felt this way when I bought the SWTOR collectors edition and then the game went f2p. Oh well, nothing is ever really fair!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Actually I would get the same thing everyone else (new) gets but not allowed to claim it at the same price as everyone else (new) gets.
There might be some people who see it that way, but that's not how i, and others, see it. I see people upset over the price tag, due to the sparse content within the expansion, which doesn't justify the price. It's not being entitled when you expect better quality and more quantity out of an expansion, especially when you compare it to the competition.
So after 3 years of substantial content updates from a B2P title with NO subscription, paying $50 is too much for a few new zones, a new class, a completely new mode of travel? Seriously? Do you actually have any concept at all of what $50 is actually worth nowadays? Maybe you should fuel up a vehicle, or buy groceries once. It might open your eyes to how little $50 actually is.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.