Oh look, it's another "Rosey Rear-view/you noobs are having fun wrong/here comes the WoW killer" thread. The site desperately needed another one of these...
I hope Pantheon launches as a good game that scratches the itch of the gamers it's built for. But it's being built for a very specific, very narrow slice of the gamer market that hasn't been well served as of late. It is very specifically, very deliberately NOT an "everybody" game.
I'm about as "old school" as they come, and I will not be playing this for the same reasons I had no interest in playing EQ when it came out. It's as simple as different strokes for different folks.
With great respect, I could understand your reasons.
My point in a nut shell is this :
If the game is as advertised. Large crowds will roll in, others will follow to simply see what's going on. Being a REAL mmo ( been a long time ). Most will stay.
I'll admit EQ when it came out was not my style. But the need for an mmo seems to overpower that at least for me. Also, this is 2015, I'm not expecting stick figures and dull flat land graphics.
People bring people. If many are playing it, it would be impossible not to give it a try, even if the basic synopsis is not my style.
It's quite possible not to try it. As I said, I have no interest in the games basic mechanics, and I know more than a few that wouldn't try it. This is assuming that it's even as "good" a game as you said as it's advertised to be, which in my opinion is going to be its biggest hurdle.
My point in a nutshell is this:
"everyone" will not play it.
OK, I understand you don't like the game. Your committed to this, simply because it's a fact. No one can tell you what you like and dislike.
Can I please with great humbleness ask just one more question, just because your the perfect one to ask because you DO NOT LIKE Pantheon.
If for example, one million players instantly play the game. It turns out to be a very likable game for many then three million more follow. Then the games momentum builds even deeper.
Would you try it ?
I think your basic premise if flawed in a number of places.
1) Brad is in charge of this game right? His track record on delivering complete, well built releases is poor. There was already some early allegations of misspent kickstarter funds by the initial team, not a great start for the savior of the genre. 2) This is the typical underfunded indie, so even if they wanted to deliver everything promised, they won't have the money to do so. Likely you'll get a partial alpha/beta type release, which has the potential to drive away everyone before it ever gets off the ground. 3) Now, the follow the herd mentality does not apply to me, so perhaps I don't give enough weight to it, but looking at this games design, it's nothing I would ever play, (much like MOBA's) so I don't care if 10M people are playing it, I won't be. If a million people try it at launch, and 80% hate it as is typical, there will be no follow on growth. 4) Is this title really what "everyone" wants? I know I want a virtual world, in depth MMOPRG, but if it isn't designed around player control of resources and land (a la EVE, Shadowbane, Lineage 1/2 etc) it's definitely not for me, my tastes in gaming are very narrow. 5) If you enter Pantheon in Google it takes you to numerous links of a web hosting site, you must enter Rise of the Fallen to get to the game itself. 6) Group centric, slow leveling, not exactly the formula for success in the modern MMO space, like others said, there's a niche for this sort of game, but the masses just aren't going to buy into this design? 7) Payment model? No matter what they chose, they're bound to alienate some segment. In fact, to draw the masses it should be F2P, but their core target audience likely favors a sub only model, so what to do.
Finally, your title is troll bait, and you are increasingly coming across in your posts as a blind "fanboi", soon none will take you seriously if you can't keep some balance in your perspective and put a little less faith and bit more reality into what this title might eventually turn out to be.
But Kyleran, it's a REAL mmo!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wtf are you going on about, I've been backing the game from day one. Actually read what I'm saying [mod edit]
You guys are exactly what I imagine the community of this game to be like.
It's almost a carbon copy of the Vanguard threads from eight or nine years ago. There seem to be two groups of fans of this game:
The "real MMO" fanatics who feel it is going to give millions the epic game they are craving for.
The crowd that is glad the game is targeting their interests and hopes that focused approach keeps away the people with no interest in that feature set so that the focus remains
...and each group finds the other group to be a detriment to the game.
Post edited by Vaross on
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
Why do you think people want a MMO like this when you say classics are dried up and that this is just another try to remake EQ and Vanguard?
Need to get a clue...EQ was popular for being one of the first 3d MMO's...not because of gameplay or the mechanics..it really was popular because there was not much else to play which drew a lot of players.
Vanguard was never going to be much better (if that) even with a perfect launch. People had, and have, moved on from the mechanics this game, and you, keep saying are what "a lot" of people are dreaming and waiting for.
This game you keep seeing in your head as "the perfect game" will never be that. Not even to you, even if it ever see's the light of day as a completed game.
Niche games are fine, but trying to make them more than that just ruins them for everyone, including the niche they were made for.
People and players have moved on. What you remember and what is reality are so far apart it is getting hard to take you seriously.
It is hard to see if you really believe these things you are saying or just looking to troll people here....if you do believe..just wow.
Brad or Smedly, just because they are making a game will tell me not to play it. No matter what happens this game will never get installed on my system.
I'll have to say, Crowed Funding or Kick starter or what ever you call them, leaves a bad taste.
The fact is there are no better option at this point. Wall street backers with greed and fast profit seems to be a thing of the past unless developers make another run of the mill quick-fun-fun game again. In that case Pantheon would be another of the 200 kids on the long list. Just another video game.
What I'm concerned about is this ;
Crowed Funding and Kick starters need a trickle release. In order to get mid game development funding players will slowly trickle in and out. Never will the game be full population at once. This is bad for mmos.
I'll be honest i cannot remember much about this game far too many games flooding this market.
You obviously don't mean everyone not likely even 50% because most either hate pvp or ONLY want pvp.
For myself i am very finnicky,if i see really stupid ideas i am out of the game soo fast i burn rubber.
I find it so very difficult to enjoy a game because what i see are so many ideas and systems that contradict each other in games or just really bad implementation.
I will touch on one topic >>>grouping.I love grouping but it has to be done right not just a bunch of soloists with a group flag.Then to boot i cannot stand spammy combat or the non realism of fighting several mobs at the same time,i prefer pulling ONE mob at a time.Having said i enjoy grouping,i can't stand raids,they are ALWAYS spam combat and just tons of players,it is really bad content to put in any game.
I don't want to hear anything about old school or new school,i want to hear people working the systems that have a clue what they are doing and can THINK for themselves.So yeah this game has big shoes to fill if it wants to appease me.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
I neither hate or love this game, but I did give you 7 valid reasons why this title will firmly be niche, but you totally ignored it, I guess it poked too many holes in your argument.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
I neither hate or love this game, but I did give you 7 valid reasons why this title will firmly be niche, but you totally ignored it, I guess it poked too many holes in your argument.
Sorry I just found your seven reasons. I'll try to answer my views on your 7 reasons in a paragraph because honestly I don't understand a few of them.
As far as Brads reputation, if the game is good, players will forget all that. You would need your head examined if hatred would hold you back on a game that you would enjoy, and if that's the only motivation in not playing it. As far as funding being imposable, we don't know, none of us have a clue. But everything I say is based on the game delivering all promised.
Player controlled resources and land, not sure what your even talking about, if your talking about players should be fighting over stuff, then you maybe truly alone on this venture.
You dont like slow leveling, but like fast, so your talking in the lines of two quest per level and being done with a virtual world style game in 30 days ? Sounds lonely to me if you gain 5-10 levels a day. If you play hard you get to say see-ya-later-alligator to any possible friends.....30 days later you can also say next quick game please !
And lastly, F2P.....Do you really like running around with totally free players, or on the other side of the coin, do you like everyone around you giving $300 a month......Who has what ??....Monthly subscription is the only solution. Now that I think about it, I am flawed, the FREE players are out.
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
I neither hate or love this game, but I did give you 7 valid reasons why this title will firmly be niche, but you totally ignored it, I guess it poked too many holes in your argument.
Come on Kyleran, you know you want to.
Especially with all that fast leveling you do in EvE.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
This whole sorry thread pre-supposes that it will actually release.
And not look like Mortal Online when it does.
Which is very far from certain.
I don't care who you are, or what you have done in the past or what "visions" you have, it takes money, a lot of money, to make any kind of a reasonable MMO, and this game has practically none. (Raph Koster recently said that it would take at least $10 mil to make even a scaled down MMO, as a bare minimum.)
(And if you WANT to talk about the past, Mcquaid had ~ $35 million in funding for Vanguard, and he STILL couldn't get that train wreck released.)
This whole sorry thread pre-supposes that it will actually release.
And not look like Mortal Online when it does.
Which is very far from certain.
I don't care who you are, or what you have done in the past or what "visions" you have, it takes money, a lot of money, to make any kind of a reasonable MMO, and this game has practically none. (Raph Koster recently said that it would take at least $10 mil to make even a scaled down MMO, as a bare minimum.)
(And if you WANT to talk about the past, Mcquaid had ~ $35 million in funding for Vanguard, and he STILL couldn't get that train wreck released.)
And that is the reality of it.
If this is true, then the entire mmo industry is screwed, and the only thing possible would be
1) Short little quick fun games with F2P cash shops. Every game in the last 5 years.
2) Asian remakes. You know the ones with the teenager girls with less than questionable sexy outfits, irritating music, and depressing water color graphics with lots of mushrooms ( why mushrooms, Asian games seem to love them ) and yes F2P cash shops.
I cant seem to figure out how the average poster here seems to be deep into companies financial business. This is privileged information.
Are they asking for a sub to play the alpha/pre alpha for this game?
When I go to the website I can't see any information on costs/pricing- its the same with Pathfinder Online, when I click the "store" button, or in Pantheon the "subscribe" button, the website asks me to sign up, but doesn't show me any pricing.
I like your enthusiasm, but I doubt "everyone" will play Pantheon, no matter how good it will turn out to be. In fact I can confirm that Pantheon is aiming at a smaller niche of dedicated player (people like me)
That Pantheon is going to be a niche game, that's unquestionable. But how big this niche market really is?
Personally, I think that this kind of game potentially has a big player base, I believe the Industry snubbed this type of games because they are less profitable than the current mainstream casual MMOs.. That left a huge gap in the market, so whoever can make a decent Old School game it will hit the jackpot. I hope Pantheon is going to be that game.
This whole sorry thread pre-supposes that it will actually release.
And not look like Mortal Online when it does.
Which is very far from certain.
I don't care who you are, or what you have done in the past or what "visions" you have, it takes money, a lot of money, to make any kind of a reasonable MMO, and this game has practically none. (Raph Koster recently said that it would take at least $10 mil to make even a scaled down MMO, as a bare minimum.)
(And if you WANT to talk about the past, Mcquaid had ~ $35 million in funding for Vanguard, and he STILL couldn't get that train wreck released.)
And that is the reality of it.
If this is true, then the entire mmo industry is screwed, and the only thing possible would be
1) Short little quick fun games with F2P cash shops. Every game in the last 5 years.
2) Asian remakes. You know the ones with the teenager girls with less than questionable sexy outfits, irritating music, and depressing water color graphics with lots of mushrooms ( why mushrooms, Asian games seem to love them ) and yes F2P cash shops.
I cant seem to figure out how the average poster here seems to be deep into companies financial business. This is privileged information.
Well, I work in the investment industry, so I am not the "average poster" when it comes to the financial side of things.
We know that Microsoft invested between $30-$35 mil in Vanguard before they pulled out of that project (there were several threads about it at the time, might still be in the VG forum, might not be, it has been a while). We also know that it was not enough for Mcquaid to actually release VG, as he sold to SOE who had to put several more months work into before it could be "released" (if you call what they did a release, what a mess, the game would barely run on a top end system att).
And Raph Koster posted about needing to raise at least $10 mil to even try to do a crowdfunded MMO, or words to that effect, fairly recently.
Ideas and "vision" is great and all that, but in the real world, you can not force an MMO into being by force of will, it takes a whole lot of money to pay for the resources and infrastructure to get it done (which is why these KS/crowdfunded MMOs have been failing left, right and center, lately).
I won't be playing this because I'm done with MMOs. I play the one I play now strictly for story purposes. There aren't any other ones I'm interested in and I'm just going to stick to single player or small multiplayer games.
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
Why do you think people want a MMO like this when you say classics are dried up and that this is just another try to remake EQ and Vanguard?
Need to get a clue...EQ was popular for being one of the first 3d MMO's...not because of gameplay or the mechanics..it really was popular because there was not much else to play which drew a lot of players.
This really couldn't be more wrong. There have been doctoral thesis quality posts, blogs and forums dedicated to EQ and older MMOs where people have broken down exactly what they liked about it and why it fostered an entirely different environment and was so enjoyable and addictive. You should probably go back and read some and "get a clue." Specifically there was one earlier this year called something like "Call it nostalgia all you want" and dozens of people gave very detailed lists of why they enjoyed EQ and what specifically made it better than modern games.
ARK:Survival Evolved feels more like an MMORPG than any I've played in the last few years. Fun leveling for myself and my dinosaurs, building whatever bad base designs I come up with and simply just doing whatever I want in the world like a true sandbox MMO should be. No ARK is not flawless, not even close. However it is entertaining and what I want from an MMO in the long run.
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
Why do you think people want a MMO like this when you say classics are dried up and that this is just another try to remake EQ and Vanguard?
Need to get a clue...EQ was popular for being one of the first 3d MMO's...not because of gameplay or the mechanics..it really was popular because there was not much else to play which drew a lot of players.
This really couldn't be more wrong. There have been doctoral thesis quality posts, blogs and forums dedicated to EQ and older MMOs where people have broken down exactly what they liked about it and why it fostered an entirely different environment and was so enjoyable and addictive. You should probably go back and read some and "get a clue." Specifically there was one earlier this year called something like "Call it nostalgia all you want" and dozens of people gave very detailed lists of why they enjoyed EQ and what specifically made it better than modern games.
How is he wrong though? In 2004 oldschool gamers who were playing EQ and it's peers left those games in droves to go play WoW. It would seems that even in the vaunted oldschool player base there was a majority that chose a far less punishing far more solo friendly game once they were actually offered a choice.
Just because oldschool games had an "entirely different environment" doesn't mean a great deal of their success couldn't be attributed to not having to compete with WoW.
However, it has been so long since there has been an alternative to the WoW model that there could be significant pent up demand for something different. I certainly felt more than a twinge of nostalgia after watching the Tree of Savior review that talk about grind parties rather than questing to level.
Comments
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I hope Pantheon launches as a good game that scratches the itch of the gamers it's built for. But it's being built for a very specific, very narrow slice of the gamer market that hasn't been well served as of late. It is very specifically, very deliberately NOT an "everybody" game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's almost a carbon copy of the Vanguard threads from eight or nine years ago. There seem to be two groups of fans of this game:
...and each group finds the other group to be a detriment to the game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I see two types here, the people that love it and the people that hate it. This is what I was expecting.
However what I'm saying is both will become one. Not entirely but close.
Reasons ?
- It's been years since we had a real mmo. Players are starving.
- Many have never experienced an mmo. The classics are old and dried up from back in 2004 and beyond. You would have to be crazy to expect something that old to catch the new generation of players. To make matters worse their now cash grabs.
- Everyone would in brace a living world.
- Many like the idea, but despise Everquest, Vanguard, SOE along with the entire staff from past failures. But they will come around the quickest if the games turns out to be good.
- Many post on this site are hateful and harmful just because. Time and time again their is more bashing than agreeing. People seem to love ripping a post to shreds, looking for that weak point and going for the main artery. It's what people do.
- No one likes easy, short games. It's part of the lie I was talking about.
Need to get a clue...EQ was popular for being one of the first 3d MMO's...not because of gameplay or the mechanics..it really was popular because there was not much else to play which drew a lot of players.
Vanguard was never going to be much better (if that) even with a perfect launch. People had, and have, moved on from the mechanics this game, and you, keep saying are what "a lot" of people are dreaming and waiting for.
This game you keep seeing in your head as "the perfect game" will never be that. Not even to you, even if it ever see's the light of day as a completed game.
Niche games are fine, but trying to make them more than that just ruins them for everyone, including the niche they were made for.
People and players have moved on. What you remember and what is reality are so far apart it is getting hard to take you seriously.
It is hard to see if you really believe these things you are saying or just looking to troll people here....if you do believe..just wow.
This game is defo going places..
Good luck guys
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
I'll have to say, Crowed Funding or Kick starter or what ever you call them, leaves a bad taste.
The fact is there are no better option at this point. Wall street backers with greed and fast profit seems to be a thing of the past unless developers make another run of the mill quick-fun-fun game again. In that case Pantheon would be another of the 200 kids on the long list. Just another video game.
What I'm concerned about is this ;
Crowed Funding and Kick starters need a trickle release. In order to get mid game development funding players will slowly trickle in and out. Never will the game be full population at once. This is bad for mmos.
MMO's need the shock and awe at release.
You obviously don't mean everyone not likely even 50% because most either hate pvp or ONLY want pvp.
For myself i am very finnicky,if i see really stupid ideas i am out of the game soo fast i burn rubber.
I find it so very difficult to enjoy a game because what i see are so many ideas and systems that contradict each other in games or just really bad implementation.
I will touch on one topic >>>grouping.I love grouping but it has to be done right not just a bunch of soloists with a group flag.Then to boot i cannot stand spammy combat or the non realism of fighting several mobs at the same time,i prefer pulling ONE mob at a time.Having said i enjoy grouping,i can't stand raids,they are ALWAYS spam combat and just tons of players,it is really bad content to put in any game.
I don't want to hear anything about old school or new school,i want to hear people working the systems that have a clue what they are doing and can THINK for themselves.So yeah this game has big shoes to fill if it wants to appease me.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sorry I just found your seven reasons. I'll try to answer my views on your 7 reasons in a paragraph because honestly I don't understand a few of them.
As far as Brads reputation, if the game is good, players will forget all that. You would need your head examined if hatred would hold you back on a game that you would enjoy, and if that's the only motivation in not playing it. As far as funding being imposable, we don't know, none of us have a clue. But everything I say is based on the game delivering all promised.
Player controlled resources and land, not sure what your even talking about, if your talking about players should be fighting over stuff, then you maybe truly alone on this venture.
You dont like slow leveling, but like fast, so your talking in the lines of two quest per level and being done with a virtual world style game in 30 days ? Sounds lonely to me if you gain 5-10 levels a day. If you play hard you get to say see-ya-later-alligator to any possible friends.....30 days later you can also say next quick game please !
And lastly, F2P.....Do you really like running around with totally free players, or on the other side of the coin, do you like everyone around you giving $300 a month......Who has what ??....Monthly subscription is the only solution. Now that I think about it, I am flawed, the FREE players are out.
Come on Kyleran, you know you want to.
Especially with all that fast leveling you do in EvE.
This whole sorry thread pre-supposes that it will actually release.
And not look like Mortal Online when it does.
Which is very far from certain.
I don't care who you are, or what you have done in the past or what "visions" you have, it takes money, a lot of money, to make any kind of a reasonable MMO, and this game has practically none. (Raph Koster recently said that it would take at least $10 mil to make even a scaled down MMO, as a bare minimum.)
(And if you WANT to talk about the past, Mcquaid had ~ $35 million in funding for Vanguard, and he STILL couldn't get that train wreck released.)
And that is the reality of it.
If this is true, then the entire mmo industry is screwed, and the only thing possible would be
1) Short little quick fun games with F2P cash shops. Every game in the last 5 years.
2) Asian remakes. You know the ones with the teenager girls with less than questionable sexy outfits, irritating music, and depressing water color graphics with lots of mushrooms ( why mushrooms, Asian games seem to love them ) and yes F2P cash shops.
I cant seem to figure out how the average poster here seems to be deep into companies financial business. This is privileged information.
When I go to the website I can't see any information on costs/pricing- its the same with Pathfinder Online, when I click the "store" button, or in Pantheon the "subscribe" button, the website asks me to sign up, but doesn't show me any pricing.
In fact I can confirm that Pantheon is aiming at a smaller niche of dedicated player (people like me)
That Pantheon is going to be a niche game, that's unquestionable.
But how big this niche market really is?
Personally, I think that this kind of game potentially has a big player base, I believe the Industry snubbed this type of games because they are less profitable than the current mainstream casual MMOs..
That left a huge gap in the market, so whoever can make a decent Old School game it will hit the jackpot.
I hope Pantheon is going to be that game.
We know that Microsoft invested between $30-$35 mil in Vanguard before they pulled out of that project (there were several threads about it at the time, might still be in the VG forum, might not be, it has been a while). We also know that it was not enough for Mcquaid to actually release VG, as he sold to SOE who had to put several more months work into before it could be "released" (if you call what they did a release, what a mess, the game would barely run on a top end system att).
And Raph Koster posted about needing to raise at least $10 mil to even try to do a crowdfunded MMO, or words to that effect, fairly recently.
Ideas and "vision" is great and all that, but in the real world, you can not force an MMO into being by force of will, it takes a whole lot of money to pay for the resources and infrastructure to get it done (which is why these KS/crowdfunded MMOs have been failing left, right and center, lately).
No ARK is not flawless, not even close. However it is entertaining and what I want from an MMO in the long run.
Just because oldschool games had an "entirely different environment" doesn't mean a great deal of their success couldn't be attributed to not having to compete with WoW.
However, it has been so long since there has been an alternative to the WoW model that there could be significant pent up demand for something different. I certainly felt more than a twinge of nostalgia after watching the Tree of Savior review that talk about grind parties rather than questing to level.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!