Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

JohnP0100

That's because they can't go after Rob's work. He was involved in 3 out of 5 wing commanders. He was the old guard with Chris and Erin.
Only thing left is to attack his character or twist what he said.  But twisting 'there is some truth to that' doesn't really work.

barasawa

JohnP0100 said:

DKLond said:

Oh, so it's an attack to give my impression of a nice low-key guy who'd rather be doing less challenging work?

Being irrationally defensive doesn't really support an objective point of view.

I've had that impression of him since I first saw him in Wingman's Hangar - along with the host. They both seemed like a couple of nice and entertaining guys who were ill-suited for a hugely ambitious project like Star Citizen - which surely demands you get in line with the vision.

A smaller project like rebooting Descent seems much more like their style - so I don't see a problem.

So you said 'Slacking off' and you do not consider that as a personal attack?

The guy was involved in 3 out of 5 Wing Commanders and you are now accusing him of preferring 'less challenging work'? LOLWUT?!

This is totally not a CULT guys! 
#NOTACULT

Do you realize those games fit on floppies? It's not just the graphics that have gotten a LOT more extensive.

barasawa

Talonsin said:

Erillion said:

JohnP0100 said:

 name one person who has left CIG and is still considered 'good'  by CIG Fans.

Eric “Wingman” Peterson


Have fun

I hate that guy!  He is no good!

Sorry, had to do it.  I dont even know who that is, LOL.

Having left a company, especially when it wasn't exactly voluntarily (no idea what it was in his case), tends to leave a bitter taste. Some people embrace that and vitriolic spew like a firehose of acid. Giving them any attention does Not help the situation. Other people try to remain calmer and retain some perspective, even though they may harbor ill feelings. Then there's those that just won't talk about it, but since you don't hear anything from them...

Adjuvant1

gervaise1 said:

We all know why Escapist does this stuff - clickbait.

This statement is getting old from the people who argue "open mindedness" or even "impartiality" in the next paragraph. I linked on page 2 of this thread the history of the article contributor. It's not fair to call her work "clickbait". It's like this convenient, catch-all dismissive, in the same spirit of "calling everything with which you disagree as trolling". You're being unfair to a person who, if you're interested in pc and gaming news in general which I expect you are since you're caring to discuss here, you should be showing a modicum of respect.

She has an interview with one of the premiere white hats, ever, front and center. She likes pokemon and zelda. She's a person interested in the field in which she has the opportunity to discuss and report. She's not clickbait.

Adjuvant1

Burntvet said:

Personally, I am in the camp that SC is not a scam (beyond the ship selling maybe) but will eventually release as far less than was promised.

I'm not trying to square-off with you personally, but this is called "bargaining phase". I see it rampant in both the subreddit and the rsi official forums. Instead of being able to blanketly deny impropriety, everyone's left, now, subjectively defining "what is a scam". If I had a dime for every post like this, I could make my own mmo.

Distopia

Adjuvant1 said:

gervaise1 said:

We all know why Escapist does this stuff - clickbait.

This statement is getting old from the people who argue "open mindedness" or even "impartiality" in the next paragraph. I linked on page 2 of this thread the history of the article contributor. It's not fair to call her work "clickbait". It's like this convenient, catch-all dismissive, in the same spirit of "calling everything with which you disagree as trolling". You're being unfair to a person who, if you're interested in pc and gaming news in general which I expect you are since you're caring to discuss here, you should be showing a modicum of respect.

She has an interview with one of the premiere white hats, ever, front and center. She likes pokemon and zelda. She's a person interested in the field in which she has the opportunity to discuss and report. She's not clickbait.

She may be a great person... that really has nothing to do with it... It's how the outlet she works for uses the story that matters most. The term clickbait really has little to do with the author at all. The ball is still essentially in their court, as they did propose a follow up, they've been all but silent on the matter since. That's where my opinion on the matter comes from, it was a story that would bring in a lot of hits, yet it wasn't something the outlet was truly interested in seeing through to the end. 

Like the editor said when they broke the story, timing matters, hence they released it before they had the other side on record (Cr's "lost" email), at this point I'd assume it's old news as far as they're concerned. Which says two things, they had no real plan to investigate the matter, or they found nothing.

Deivos

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

Distopia

Adjuvant1 said:

Burntvet said:

Personally, I am in the camp that SC is not a scam (beyond the ship selling maybe) but will eventually release as far less than was promised.

I'm not trying to square-off with you personally, but this is called "bargaining phase". I see it rampant in both the subreddit and the rsi official forums. Instead of being able to blanketly deny impropriety, everyone's left, now, subjectively defining "what is a scam". If I had a dime for every post like this, I could make my own mmo.

Well that's because we're all just guessing, we'll be able to say what it was in hindsight, until then it's just guess work. So why would anyone offer any kind of blanket denial?

Adjuvant1

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

CIG hired a private investigator in October to lock down the sources of any leaks within the company. By this time, things would need to go so far south with the project, before such relevant data were available, that the issues would be readily apparent to the common observer. So, the article basically empowered to company to fixate a better lid on the situation.

Distopia

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

 wasn't it the escapist's admission that the story came to them more or less? They already have sources with inside knowledge to help bring more of this to them or at least more whistle blowers, where is it, where are they? More sources can be just as anonymous as the originals, all they need are more people backing the story for a follow up.

Which brings another thought, couldn't this guy be one of the original sources?

AnnaTS

Adjuvant1 said:

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

CIG hired a private investigator in October to lock down the sources of any leaks within the company. By this time, things would need to go so far south with the project, before such relevant data were available, that the issues would be readily apparent to the common observer. So, the article basically empowered to company to fixate a better lid on the situation.

People will go to great lengths to keep information from the public especially if they are going to suffer from the information being put out there they don't want especially if they have the money to do it and it's probably happened today at some point across the world some celebrity or company paying people to keep shhh.

Adjuvant1

Distopia said:

Adjuvant1 said:

Burntvet said:

Personally, I am in the camp that SC is not a scam (beyond the ship selling maybe) but will eventually release as far less than was promised.

I'm not trying to square-off with you personally, but this is called "bargaining phase". I see it rampant in both the subreddit and the rsi official forums. Instead of being able to blanketly deny impropriety, everyone's left, now, subjectively defining "what is a scam". If I had a dime for every post like this, I could make my own mmo.

Well that's because we're all just guessing, we'll be able to say what it was in hindsight, until then it's just guess work. So why would anyone offer any kind of blanket denial?

Because this isn't an average, ordinary, every-day game development. People compare this, with "hype level and common failure to deliver", with other propagandized projects. Those were not just things to say to accumulate hype ahead of a project release, those were promises (i.e. stretch goals), intended as guarantees, the basis of which they have been receiving support and backing. It's not the same thing.

People gave them money because they game will have this, this and this other. The game will have this and this, but not this other. That makes for lies, not conjecture, not approximation. It's nonsense to argue otherwise.

If I pay you to paint my house blue because you tell me you will paint my house blue, if you paint half my house yellow and say, "oops I ran out of blue paint", I'm going to be understandably upset. So, what, so they have in this tos, "we might not deliver exactly what we said, or anything we said, or anything at all". Well, then, none of it is defensible. Not at all. Not one bit. That's no comparison to, "well alot of people are paid to paint blue houses and instead paint yellow houses". They don't. No one makes money doing that. No one, but the gaslighted or otherwise abused, thinks that's ok.

Distopia

Adjuvant1 said:

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

CIG hired a private investigator in October to lock down the sources of any leaks within the company. By this time, things would need to go so far south with the project, before such relevant data were available, that the issues would be readily apparent to the common observer. So, the article basically empowered to company to fixate a better lid on the situation.

Reporting racism in hiring by senior staff, anything involving a scam, etc..etc.. would not be covered under an NDA, as they're unlawful practices, in such a case the employer would be breaching their contracts to begin with, illegal activity breaks any legal agreement... Their not divulging trade secrets here..

If people really want to speak out about such things there is little legally CIG could do if damning proof comes with it. Lets consider those emails for one, why did no one screencap one? That's all it would have taken to prove such an environment. 

Look how angry some are about the very accusation of such a thing taking place, you think the people actually witnessing it would not be as well?

Adjuvant1

Distopia said:

Adjuvant1 said:

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

CIG hired a private investigator in October to lock down the sources of any leaks within the company. By this time, things would need to go so far south with the project, before such relevant data were available, that the issues would be readily apparent to the common observer. So, the article basically empowered to company to fixate a better lid on the situation.

Reporting racism in hiring by senior staff, anything involving a scam, etc..etc.. would not be covered under an NDA, as they're unlawful practices, in such a case the employer would be breaching their contracts to begin with, illegal activity breaks any legal agreement... 

You have to prove it. The human resource department is Ben Lesnick's wife, answerable directly to Chris Roberts and Sandi Gardiner. There's no hope for any kind of ethical support from the company echo chamber.

Deivos

Distopia said:

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

 wasn't it the escapist's admission that the story came to them more or less? They already have sources with inside knowledge to help bring more of this to them or at least more whistle blowers, where is it, where are they? More sources can be just as anonymous as the originals, all they need are more people backing the story for a follow up.

Which brings another thought, couldn't this guy be one of the original sources?

If those sources are locked down and can't offer communication without complications, then more people coming to them to give any info is kind of hard to achieve.

The idea they can be just as anonymous as the originals, as you put it, doesn't really work if the company in question is watching it's employees communications and otherwise more closely following such a leak.

And he very well could be.

EDIT: My point in commenting at all on this is that there is way too much conjecture and speculation going on. The more either side has chosen to expound on things the closer both have come to looking like conspiracy theorists. The reality tends to sit somewhere more moderated.

Distopia

Adjuvant1 said:

Distopia said:

Adjuvant1 said:

Deivos said:

MisterZebub said:

Or C: they're hiding under the desk pissing themselves.

Or D : They never got communication back from RSI or other sources to get the info necessary to do a follow up.

After what that kerfuffle seemed to amount to, I doubt much meaningful communication has happened any direction.

CIG hired a private investigator in October to lock down the sources of any leaks within the company. By this time, things would need to go so far south with the project, before such relevant data were available, that the issues would be readily apparent to the common observer. So, the article basically empowered to company to fixate a better lid on the situation.

Reporting racism in hiring by senior staff, anything involving a scam, etc..etc.. would not be covered under an NDA, as they're unlawful practices, in such a case the employer would be breaching their contracts to begin with, illegal activity breaks any legal agreement... 

You have to prove it. The human resource department is Ben Lesnick's wife, answerable directly to Chris Roberts and Sandi Gardiner. There's no hope for any kind of ethical support from the company echo chamber.

My edit while you were typing..

"If people really want to speak out about such things there is little legally CIG could do if damning proof comes with it. Lets consider those emails for one, why did no one screencap one? That's all it would have taken to prove such an environment. 

Look how angry some are about the very accusation of such a thing taking place, you think the people actually witnessing it would not be as well?"

Little-Boot

I find the dismissal of The Escapist article slightly odd. One of two situations exist: -
 
1. The Escapist did not use corroborating vetted sources for their article, in which case CIG would follow up on their knee-jerk threat to sue, or; 
2. The Escapist did use corroborating vetted sources for their article, in which case their are (ex)employees of the firm giving accounts form their own intimate experience of the firm and its practices. 

Given that legal action has not been taken it is most likely that 2 is true. If 2 is true, these (ex)employees know far more about the situation than anyone on these forums defending CIG from a position of total ignorance. 

Likewise when the former lead designer talks of their being some truth to the article, and then expounds on scope creep and over-reaching by Chris Roberts... then he also knows far more of the situation than anyone defending CIG on these forums.

Personally, I am not particularly interested in Star Citizen, and if people have paid for it I hope it finally releases and offers some of what they hoped to get. But the disingenuous manner in which some defend CIG on this site, is becoming laughable.    
 

JohnP0100

DeathmachinePT said:

The article is far from the truth(racism and no money left and no game?? when you can already fly ships, shoot them, get out of ships , capture them in zero g and when they are opening new studios worldwide and bring new people in?) but is it true that in many games there are feature creeps and conflicts with managers and creative people yes but that is the norm in making a game..

Such a pathetic title shame on you JohnP0100 for just making the title to bait irrational fans and anti-fans and not promoting a more adult discussion based on the video.

I must have missed this post.

Yes,  shame on me for getting my thread title accurate. 'there is some truth to that' is literally Rob's response. You don't like it?  Tough.

I must have missed the memo where attacking Rob or myself is an 'adult discussion'. See wonderful posters like DKlond and Realizer.

You don't like that i highlight things that puts SC/CIG in a negative light?  Okay. Whatever. Just don't lie about it.

Distopia

Little-Boot said:

I find the dismissal of The Escapist article slightly odd. One of two situations exist: -
 
1. The Escapist did not use corroborating vetted sources for their article, in which case CIG would follow up on their knee-jerk threat to sue, or; 
2. The Escapist did use corroborating vetted sources for their article, in which case their are (ex)employees of the firm giving accounts form their own intimate experience of the firm and its practices. 

Given that legal action has not been taken it is most likely that 2 is true. If 2 is true, these (ex)employees know far more about the situation than anyone on these forums defending CIG from a position of total ignorance. 

Likewise when the former lead designer talks of their being some truth to the article, and then expounds on scope creep and over-reaching by Chris Roberts... then he also knows far more of the situation than anyone defending CIG on these forums.

Personally, I am not particularly interested in Star Citizen, and if people have paid for it I hope it finally releases and offers some of what they hoped to get. But the disingenuous manner in which some defend CIG on this site, is becoming laughable.    
 

It's usually best to quote what you're referring to, I didn't really notice anyone dismissing the article, nor dismissing the lead designer interviewed here. 

JohnP0100

Little-Boot said:

I find the dismissal of The Escapist article slightly odd. One of two situations exist: -
 
1. The Escapist did not use corroborating vetted sources for their article, in which case CIG would follow up on their knee-jerk threat to sue, or; 
2. The Escapist did use corroborating vetted sources for their article, in which case their are (ex)employees of the firm giving accounts form their own intimate experience of the firm and its practices. 

Given that legal action has not been taken it is most likely that 2 is true. If 2 is true, these (ex)employees know far more about the situation than anyone on these forums defending CIG from a position of total ignorance. 

Likewise when the former lead designer talks of their being some truth to the article, and then expounds on scope creep and over-reaching by Chris Roberts... then he also knows far more of the situation than anyone defending CIG on these forums.

Personally, I am not particularly interested in Star Citizen, and if people have paid for it I hope it finally releases and offers some of what they hoped to get. But the disingenuous manner in which some defend CIG on this site, is becoming laughable.    
 

Careful. You must apply #criticalthinking and realize there is nothing wrong with SC and any negative signs are done by those evil 'non-believers'  #notacult.  /sarcasm

Distopia

JohnP0100 said:

Careful. You must apply #criticalthinking and realize there is nothing wrong with SC and any negative signs are done by those evil 'non-believers'  #notacult.  /sarcasm

Eh? Who said there is nothing wrong at CIG? Are we at the phase of making up points to argue with already?

laserit

Derek Smart.... Derek Smart.... Derek Smart

JohnP0100

laserit said:

Derek Smart.... Derek Smart.... Derek Smart

In this very thread i was accused of being a Derek Smart alt.
Which is hilarious as 
1. Derek smart has his own account here
2. ROFL if you think his ego will let him be anyone other than Derek f-ing Smart the 'internet warlord' anywhere on the internet.

Adjuvant1

laserit said:

Derek Smart.... Derek Smart.... Derek Smart

Doesn't the entity need to be a malignant spirit for this to work?

Anyway, theme music.

laserit

JohnP0100 said:

laserit said:

Derek Smart.... Derek Smart.... Derek Smart

In this very thread i was accused of being a Derek Smart alt.
Which is hilarious as 
1. Derek smart has his own account here
2. ROFL if you think his ego will let him be anyone other than Derek f-ing Smart the 'internet warlord' anywhere on the internet.

Lighten up

I'm just trying to invoke the powers of Derek