Don t worry PinoX, the next comment will be that Sovrath has 20K plus posts, so he knows all, you know nothing.
Anyone thinking this game isn t taking a turn for the worse is in huge denial, even if they won t admit it.
lol "no" I just like talkign about games and I type over 85 words per minute, and I'm an extrovert so "a lot of posts". Since my friends don't enjoy video games it's you lot.
Though in truth I do enjoy the people here and look forward, for the most part, in talking about games with them.
He didn't mean to be offensive. It was a joke. Lighten up. Geez, so serious. 85 words per minutes reference totally kills it.
Sovrath has been a pillar of this community a long time and is one of the more level headed ones around here. Your not doing your self a favor here by being so rude here, let alone to him.
Thanks Nanfoodle, I appreciate the comment. But it's all good, I strongly believe we would all have better and more clear conversations if we were actually sitting around a table with a good beer or wine instead of having to rely upon forum posts.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Anyone actually thinking this was a B2P game, I'm sorry but that's foolish. This is a f2p game in Korea. Just because they charged you money up front doesn't change the nature of the game. You live in a time when all recent sub games have converted to some kind of f2p scheme. What were you expecting with a game that is already f2p in other regions?
I love how my comment about being happy that I charged-back was deleted. What the hell was controversial about that? They lied to us - the friggin' article even MENTIONS that they lied to us.
They did not lie. They said before launch that if, in the future, they allowed the sale of cash shop items than they would be limited. Which is EXACTLY what they did.
Granted you probably don't have a way for people to connect your forum name here with you in real life, but if I committed fraud and stupidly bragged that i was happy about it I would be glad that it was deleted from the internet.
I thought the ability to sell pearl items on the marketplace was a good one actually. However, when I saw how much in game currency you get for selling costumes I won't use the feature most likely. Basically $30 for not even one armor piece? Yeah this p2w thing isn't a factor, people just haven't done the math yet.
I thought the ability to sell pearl items on the marketplace was a good one actually. However, when I saw how much in game currency you get for selling costumes I won't use the feature most likely. Basically $30 for not even one armor piece? Yeah this p2w thing isn't a factor, people just haven't done the math yet.
I don't think the amount of silver gained can be underestimated where it comes to upgrading gear, and silver is a very important resource when it comes to doing so.
Yes. We buy this game to NOT GET f2p trash korean game effects like real money -in game currency converter options. BDO has all trash f2p things,. Just it's not free. this is "good" for new players. Many old and strong players left the game. Most of real PvP guilds are weeks now. Many uncontested nodes. This Company is pathetic.
The amount of money you get from it so way too small. There are far better ways to obtain silver in game.
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
Follow this simple rule to achieve zen-level happiness:
"If it's Asian, it's a P2W equation."
Like FFXIV? Aion? TERA? There are pay 2 win western games as well you know.
I think those are just thoughtless racist statements people barf out that have no basis in reality.
EVE - P2W - rmt resources FF14 - P2W - rent extra storage space for crafting, rent extra character slots, cash shop WoW - P2W - character boosts, mounts, more powerful battle pets EQ2 - P2W - Pay for being able to slot top tier gear and skills, character boosts, rmt conversion, content lock LotRO - content lock, character boost, faster riding skills, crafting mats, LI items, and more GW2 - P2W - rmt conversion RIFT - class skills/souls, item slots, character boosts, rmt conversion
The list could get bigger. Most online games have some pay to win and always have. Korea is just intellectually honest about how they charge.
Very, very few of these are P2W
The notion that RMT subscriptions (EvE, WoW, EQ2, GW2, RIFT) are P2W is just ludicrous. None of those games have currency being particularly meaningful
FF14 is convenience.
EQ2 is sub2win.
LOTRO and Rift are the only two games on your list where money buys you player power (not counting subs or expansions) that you couldn't get otherwise. And neither case is particularly extreme.
People need to stop with calling everything pay 2 win. The meaning has been completely lost since the days of games like Runes of Magic or Perfect World where player power was proportional to money spent. none of that list is anything like that.
The definition of P2W is for someone to get a CLEAR advantage by spending cash on a game. I've heard people say that ESO is P2W, that SW:TOR is P2W, that WoW is P2W.
No, a thousand times no. Those games, and quite a few that I have seen accused of being P2W are not. I am sure that there are a number of P2W games out there, but BDOs changes are not P2W. They won't affect anyone other than give an advantage for 'subbing', like so many games do that charge a sub. I am sure someone will figure out an exploit and make a kajillion silver or gold, or whatever. How is that P2W? Those gold sellers in WoW do the same thing, and none of them rule the game.
If you want a P2W game, look at Forsaken World. I'm not going to go into detail, but suffice it to say that if you spend $2000 in real cash you will be unbeatable by anyone that does not spend that cash. I know, my guild fought a tank that was level 84 in a level 90 game. He came back for an expansion. There were 16 of us,and he beat us all, every one of us. We hardly scratched him. He even admitted to 'taking advantage of the cash shop'. So my guild put our noses to the grindstone, and worked our butts off to get better. We did the grind, over and over and over. We worked hard, and after 4 solid months we went back into PvP.
And got our butts handed to us again. 20 of us could not get a single kill against 3 guys, including one so-called 'glass cannon'.
Almost all of us quit the next day and started playing ESO.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
If people don't buy the items to sell...I would bet that the cap would be increased until they see a positive change in sales. It's all about money, it runs the world. Many say it's not as bad as it could have been. Don't worry, P2W is something that is gradually achieved, not in just one update.
Just enjoy the game until it hits the point that each person comes to the conclusion that the game has become P2W in their own definition.
The definition of P2W is for someone to get a CLEAR advantage by spending cash on a game. I've heard people say that ESO is P2W, that SW:TOR is P2W, that WoW is P2W.
No, a thousand times no. Those games, and quite a few that I have seen accused of being P2W are not. I am sure that there are a number of P2W games out there, but BDOs changes are not P2W. They won't affect anyone other than give an advantage for 'subbing', like so many games do that charge a sub. I am sure someone will figure out an exploit and make a kajillion silver or gold, or whatever. How is that P2W? Those gold sellers in WoW do the same thing, and none of them rule the game.
If you want a P2W game, look at Forsaken World. I'm not going to go into detail, but suffice it to say that if you spend $2000 in real cash you will be unbeatable by anyone that does not spend that cash. I know, my guild fought a tank that was level 84 in a level 90 game. He came back for an expansion. There were 16 of us,and he beat us all, every one of us. We hardly scratched him. He even admitted to 'taking advantage of the cash shop'. So my guild put our noses to the grindstone, and worked our butts off to get better. We did the grind, over and over and over. We worked hard, and after 4 solid months we went back into PvP.
And got our butts handed to us again. 20 of us could not get a single kill against 3 guys, including one so-called 'glass cannon'.
Almost all of us quit the next day and started playing ESO.
Unfair gameplay has nothing to do with the P2W acronym. P2W just describes the microtransaction business model, which brings us back to all microtransaction games are P2W. Whether or not the game is fair to both paying and nonpaying players is a line that everyone draws differently and worth discussion. Sadly, no developer ever wants to discuss with players where that line should be drawn.
It is what it is people, micro transactions and P2P and P2W is a business model, and until companies find another way to generate revenue this is here to stay.
There is another way to generate income, but today's generation of gamer wants someone else to pay the way for them. Kind of sounds like it is in RL doesn't it? Guess that bleeds over into gaming too.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
Follow this simple rule to achieve zen-level happiness:
"If it's Asian, it's a P2W equation."
Like FFXIV? Aion? TERA? There are pay 2 win western games as well you know.
I think those are just thoughtless racist statements people barf out that have no basis in reality.
EVE - P2W - rmt resources FF14 - P2W - rent extra storage space for crafting, rent extra character slots, cash shop WoW - P2W - character boosts, mounts, more powerful battle pets EQ2 - P2W - Pay for being able to slot top tier gear and skills, character boosts, rmt conversion, content lock LotRO - content lock, character boost, faster riding skills, crafting mats, LI items, and more GW2 - P2W - rmt conversion RIFT - class skills/souls, item slots, character boosts, rmt conversion
The list could get bigger. Most online games have some pay to win and always have. Korea is just intellectually honest about how they charge.
How is GW2 P2W ? Having a legendary not going to help you really WIN, All gear with highest stats can 'basically' be obtained by all without much effort. GW2 is not a gear grind oriented game, at least not when I left it.
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
Follow this simple rule to achieve zen-level happiness:
"If it's Asian, it's a P2W equation."
Zen-Level, would be specific to Perfect World Game's P2W equastions.
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
Follow this simple rule to achieve zen-level happiness:
"If it's Asian, it's a P2W equation."
Zen-Level, would be specific to Perfect World Game's P2W equastions.
The worst thing is that you see a lot of really nice looking games being developed there, and BDO is no exception, it went for the 'realistic' graphic approach rather than 'anime' there is no question that the game itself is well designed, i just wish that it along with so many other games developed in Korea etc. did not have such a toxic love affair with P2W. Even now, if BDO released a server that just had the cosmetic items in it, or at least the same kind of things that were there on release, without direct player trading still and without being able to sell pearl shop items in the market, and required a subscription to play it, i totally would, because the game itself was good enough. I have to wonder though, how many others would have played BDO as a P2P game rather than the route they chose, which was to include P2W features to boost cash shop use?
None of them are really P2W. It's why I hate that term. It's just something used to trash talk. Very rarely is there actually a problem with how RMT/cash shop purchases affect a game.
Has anyone won EVE because they sold a bunch of PLEX and bought up massive resources for a more powerful ship? I think not.
EQ2 gets a pass because spending money on a recurring basis for power is okay but one off RMT is not? When LotRO and Rift sell power does it actually have a measurable affect on the game play? No. I've played LotRO for 9 years now. It doesn't make a difference.
Western games try to mask when they sell an advantage. Korean games, not so much.
What BDO sells in their store isn't any more P2W. Letting players trade those items now doesn't increase the P2W. Those items were already in the game. If someone sells powerful gear it's because they crafted it. It didn't get auto-generated in the cash shop. My point is that this being a problem is exaggerated.
I agree people need to stop overusing P2W because like you said it muddies up the issue when a game really does have a bad problem.
EQ2 gives its max power to subscribers. LOTRO and Rift do not. EQ2 gets a pass from me in terms of model because the transition in payment models had no impact on how you play the game and access its gear and content. It had an enormous impact on quality of content development, but thats a whole different issue.
Rift and LOTRO are much more aggressive in getting subbers to use the expansion. Rift crams their shop down your throat every time you run to a vendor. Systems like minions were designed completely as a means to get cash shop sales. Subbers dont even get a stipend (which is beyond ridiculous). LOTRO is a little more upfront about selling player power, but its nothing like a real p2w model. But in both those games I still see the developers begging hand everywhere as a subber. EQ2 i can play like normal with the only reminder being at log in.
We agree overall about the overuse of p2w. I personally feel the genre was in a MUCH better place in terms of game experience before these alternate monetizations came in, but its not like we are dealing with Forsaken World here.
End of the day you agree with it or not, it shall still be. Damage was done, life go on, or people accept it or people stop playing it. Because it's quite clear that on the developer side here nothing will happen.
Still against it. This video sums up my feelings very well
Disregarding whether or not you think we were deceived (and we were), this payment model is too much on top of the crazy model they already had.
I mean, today it's techincally "not the worst thing in the world" since they only sell for 20m, but it's only going to get more p2w as they increase the price in the marketplace (which they surely will do as sales drop off).
I've just had too much "it's not the worst thing in the world" piled on top of eachother with this game, to the point where it basically is the worst thing in the world now.
All that being said, it's a great game and I am happy people like cheyane, and anyone else, are still enjoying it.
I like this video but this video leaves out Joe. Joe has time and money. As this progresses Joe will be better "basketball" than anyone from that example.
But the more artsy side is...
This is a virtual world, what we all do in it and how we find solutions to adversity is all part of the narrative that make it an interesting place. *and he held aloft his MIGHTY VISA and said...* <- this is a very boring solution and I find it detracts from the world itself, as more of this gets added.
As for "they need to make money" Hey great! I will pay a sub fee to be on a No-P2W server. I will pay extra to get on this thing!
Gotta love the "it doesn't affect how I play" defense. "Slow" people are why publishers/developers do this stuff and will keep doing this stuff.
I doubt they are slow. In denial is much more of a ring to it. Over investing in game sometimes contributes to denial attitude, especially those who already throws shit load of $$$ and time into it.
BDO is leaking players like an open faucet.
Well maybe it doesn't. Stop looking at things solely from your perspective.
The "this is how I see the world and it's the only truth" just doesn't work. Some people just don't care about this stuff.
edit: I'll add that I completely understand why people hate it but that doesn't mitigate that fact that others are indifferent.
I agree with ya after playing mmos for over 20 years now I have to say it really does not affect me as I am indifferent to it and just have learned to not let it affect my enjoyment of the game.
The point is against or not, if they make money from it they'll keep it. The reputation was already damaged so they won't get that back, so i don't see any situation where things would change.
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Are you calling people who do not agree with you "retards"? Is that where you want to go with this?
Granted you probably don't have a way for people to connect your forum name here with you in real life, but if I committed fraud and stupidly bragged that i was happy about it I would be glad that it was deleted from the internet.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
The amount of money you get from it so way too small. There are far better ways to obtain silver in game.
asdasdasd
The notion that RMT subscriptions (EvE, WoW, EQ2, GW2, RIFT) are P2W is just ludicrous. None of those games have currency being particularly meaningful
FF14 is convenience.
EQ2 is sub2win.
LOTRO and Rift are the only two games on your list where money buys you player power (not counting subs or expansions) that you couldn't get otherwise. And neither case is particularly extreme.
People need to stop with calling everything pay 2 win. The meaning has been completely lost since the days of games like Runes of Magic or Perfect World where player power was proportional to money spent. none of that list is anything like that.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
No, a thousand times no. Those games, and quite a few that I have seen accused of being P2W are not. I am sure that there are a number of P2W games out there, but BDOs changes are not P2W. They won't affect anyone other than give an advantage for 'subbing', like so many games do that charge a sub. I am sure someone will figure out an exploit and make a kajillion silver or gold, or whatever. How is that P2W? Those gold sellers in WoW do the same thing, and none of them rule the game.
If you want a P2W game, look at Forsaken World. I'm not going to go into detail, but suffice it to say that if you spend $2000 in real cash you will be unbeatable by anyone that does not spend that cash. I know, my guild fought a tank that was level 84 in a level 90 game. He came back for an expansion. There were 16 of us,and he beat us all, every one of us. We hardly scratched him. He even admitted to 'taking advantage of the cash shop'. So my guild put our noses to the grindstone, and worked our butts off to get better. We did the grind, over and over and over. We worked hard, and after 4 solid months we went back into PvP.
And got our butts handed to us again. 20 of us could not get a single kill against 3 guys, including one so-called 'glass cannon'.
Almost all of us quit the next day and started playing ESO.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Just enjoy the game until it hits the point that each person comes to the conclusion that the game has become P2W in their own definition.
Snowball effect....
Unfair gameplay has nothing to do with the P2W acronym. P2W just describes the microtransaction business model, which brings us back to all microtransaction games are P2W. Whether or not the game is fair to both paying and nonpaying players is a line that everyone draws differently and worth discussion. Sadly, no developer ever wants to discuss with players where that line should be drawn.
There is another way to generate income, but today's generation of gamer wants someone else to pay the way for them. Kind of sounds like it is in RL doesn't it? Guess that bleeds over into gaming too.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I could not care less. It's a mindless relaxation game for me.
Even now, if BDO released a server that just had the cosmetic items in it, or at least the same kind of things that were there on release, without direct player trading still and without being able to sell pearl shop items in the market, and required a subscription to play it, i totally would, because the game itself was good enough. I have to wonder though, how many others would have played BDO as a P2P game rather than the route they chose, which was to include P2W features to boost cash shop use?
Rift and LOTRO are much more aggressive in getting subbers to use the expansion. Rift crams their shop down your throat every time you run to a vendor. Systems like minions were designed completely as a means to get cash shop sales. Subbers dont even get a stipend (which is beyond ridiculous). LOTRO is a little more upfront about selling player power, but its nothing like a real p2w model. But in both those games I still see the developers begging hand everywhere as a subber. EQ2 i can play like normal with the only reminder being at log in.
We agree overall about the overuse of p2w. I personally feel the genre was in a MUCH better place in terms of game experience before these alternate monetizations came in, but its not like we are dealing with Forsaken World here.
I like this video but this video leaves out Joe. Joe has time and money. As this progresses Joe will be better "basketball" than anyone from that example.
But the more artsy side is...
This is a virtual world, what we all do in it and how we find solutions to adversity is all part of the narrative that make it an interesting place. *and he held aloft his MIGHTY VISA and said...* <- this is a very boring solution and I find it detracts from the world itself, as more of this gets added. As for "they need to make money" Hey great! I will pay a sub fee to be on a No-P2W server. I will pay extra to get on this thing!
I agree with ya after playing mmos for over 20 years now I have to say it really does not affect me as I am indifferent to it and just have learned to not let it affect my enjoyment of the game.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.