Well, if people are against this then they should be against _all_ games that offer in-game advantages from money-purchased things.
((Yes, I know...wall of text. But I feel I need to point this out because people seem to be blind to it. TLDWTR, I just took a very hardline stance. Most, I'm sure, would say it's stupid to think the below. And I would agree. I think this is called Devil's Advocate???))
This means things like:
PLEX, APEX, "WOW Tokens", Battlefield Weapon Packs (you just paid money to skip grinding the unlock), PRE-ORDER ITEMS, Mounts, Pets, Costumes with stats, XP Boosters, Instant "on-site" Resurrection Potions, House (oh no! That means Shroud and CU), Space Ships (uh oh, that means Star Citizen!), Cards (no more Hearthstone!), "Freemium Content" (ie 5% extra XP for having a sub), I'm sure I missed a few.
Now, I'm sure people will look at that and say "that is not pay 2 win". Why? I put money down and skip content that you would _normally_ have to grind through (you could run Arenas in Hearthstone for gold for card packs). Some will say that "well BDO places a higher importance on coinage that other games).
...so. By the definition established by the "Say No to P2W" group. Anytime you take real money and buy something with it that allows you to skip/"get ahead" it's "P2W".
Even if that means I by a mount on the WoW store. Because I can take the gold I [b]would have[/b] spent on it and buy something else.
IE:
Two players, both have exactly enough to buy Mount Training and a mount.
--For referencing: We'll say the Training costs 150 gold and the mount costs 50 gold--
Player 1: Buys the two with the gold
Player 2: Buys the Training (you have to) with gold, but then picks up the mount from the cash shop.
Player 2 still has 50 gold to go buy something else. Something else that Player 1 cannot get unless they farm more gold.
((Most would say this is Pay 2 Skip, and not P2W. In fact, most Cash Shops bet on this angle and offer XP Boosters, Mounts, Respec Tokens, etc. In the hopes that people will look at the Dollar Sign...then look at their coin purse [in game], and finally at the clock. And go "meh fuck it, I don't feel like grinding for 7 hours".))
This means the only non-P2W way to do this is to look at WoW's transmog system. Just because I put a new skin on my weapon didn't improve it's stats or gain me an advantage. And this is how it all started, at least here in the West, was by selling cosmetic/vanity items; want to look cool? Cough up five dollars.
But it slowly changed...
In short, ever game that's been released in the past few years is P2W. And older games like Lineage II are being retro-fitted to sport Cash Shops with advantages
((Just looked at PoE...inventory upgrades. That's P2W, because now I can store more before selling off items for room. It's very minor but technically still gives me an advantage.))
This is like DLC. People generally didn't mind it and now it's been taken 'a bit too far' in the opinion of many.
...whelp, welcome to the Age of Cash Shops.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
It's nothing like the Credd system in Wildstar, BDO is open world pvp...gear is power, gear stops others playing near you, gear lets you control the game. They told us with the game being B2P we would not get the P2W model ...they lied
I DON'T WANT THE GAME SELLING ANYTHING A PLAYER CAN USE (OR WILL FEEL COMPELLED TO BUY)
I WANT PAYING CUSTOMERS TO = NON PAYING SQUATTERS.
Dang, I'm not going to say I'm indifferent. The bottom line is the game isn't a charity. You guys hornswaggled them into not charging you a monthly fee so that you could convince your mom to pay for the game one time because you told her there's no monthly fee.
Now that the release is over and the developers are back to eating ramen noodles you are upset that they finally put something in their 'item mall' that people will actually feel compelled to buy.
Gosh guys, the 15 bucks a month thing was great, it's 15 bucks, that's less than your water bill and you probably feel like you need the mmo you're addicted to more than water anyway. This is a self inflicted tragedy.
As it relates to BDO, I'm not playing this broken game because you guys broke it, it was broke before it was released. When you do a Buy to Play you put all your eggs in the release basket and there is ABSOLUTELY NO motivation for the developers to keep you around, just keep selling boxes, and when that dries up they either move on or make the game have a bunch of money barriers like the aforementioned Star Trek Online. Or they start an in house gold selling operation like BDO did LOLOL!
COME ON AND SAY IT GUYS, GIVE US OUR SUBSCRIPTIONS BACK.
If they can flip a switch and disable open world pvp outside of town arenas and equalize stats in arenas and node wars/siege then i would'nt mind the infamous pearl business.
pay to win is a term thrown about a little too easily. mostly by people who have never played a true pay to win game with cash shop items that translate into immediate power. exp pots and the like are, imo, borderline items. especially in a game like bdo where skill points are just as important as gear. if you want to be level 60 on day one, go for it. u will be the gimpest failiest lvl 60 around. i only use them as an example as bdo offers exp enhancing items, but in the form of pretty pixels instead of a potion. other items are available in the loyalty shop as well as the pearl shop so its a wash and accessible to all.
so that covers exp, which covers costumes, which are the bulk of whats available on the in game market place. most full sets cost about 22 bucks usd. they sell for 20mill in game. i can make 20 mill in 1 full gaming day going full grind. some can do it quicker with sales, and trade, some longer, but my point is, if you want to blow 22 bucks for a 20 mill return, go for it. ill buy it. i wont sell it, but ill take advantage of you. and thats not pay to win. its sanctioned in game gold (silver) selling.
now if you sold boss armor for pearls, thats pay to win. guaranteed upgrade stones? thats pay to win.
its a slippery slope for the powers that be. if this is a success they may think about increasing revenues, in the short term, by offering true p2w items and gears, not realizing they killed their game in the process. i hope they dont do that. but for now, i see no issue with this.
Comments
((Yes, I know...wall of text. But I feel I need to point this out because people seem to be blind to it. TLDWTR, I just took a very hardline stance. Most, I'm sure, would say it's stupid to think the below. And I would agree. I think this is called Devil's Advocate???))
This means things like:
PLEX, APEX, "WOW Tokens", Battlefield Weapon Packs (you just paid money to skip grinding the unlock), PRE-ORDER ITEMS, Mounts, Pets, Costumes with stats, XP Boosters, Instant "on-site" Resurrection Potions, House (oh no! That means Shroud and CU), Space Ships (uh oh, that means Star Citizen!), Cards (no more Hearthstone!), "Freemium Content" (ie 5% extra XP for having a sub), I'm sure I missed a few.
Now, I'm sure people will look at that and say "that is not pay 2 win". Why? I put money down and skip content that you would _normally_ have to grind through (you could run Arenas in Hearthstone for gold for card packs). Some will say that "well BDO places a higher importance on coinage that other games).
...so. By the definition established by the "Say No to P2W" group. Anytime you take real money and buy something with it that allows you to skip/"get ahead" it's "P2W".
Even if that means I by a mount on the WoW store. Because I can take the gold I [b]would have[/b] spent on it and buy something else.
IE:
Two players, both have exactly enough to buy Mount Training and a mount.
--For referencing: We'll say the Training costs 150 gold and the mount costs 50 gold--
Player 1: Buys the two with the gold
Player 2: Buys the Training (you have to) with gold, but then picks up the mount from the cash shop.
Player 2 still has 50 gold to go buy something else. Something else that Player 1 cannot get unless they farm more gold.
((Most would say this is Pay 2 Skip, and not P2W. In fact, most Cash Shops bet on this angle and offer XP Boosters, Mounts, Respec Tokens, etc. In the hopes that people will look at the Dollar Sign...then look at their coin purse [in game], and finally at the clock. And go "meh fuck it, I don't feel like grinding for 7 hours".))
This means the only non-P2W way to do this is to look at WoW's transmog system. Just because I put a new skin on my weapon didn't improve it's stats or gain me an advantage. And this is how it all started, at least here in the West, was by selling cosmetic/vanity items; want to look cool? Cough up five dollars.
But it slowly changed...
In short, ever game that's been released in the past few years is P2W. And older games like Lineage II are being retro-fitted to sport Cash Shops with advantages
((Just looked at PoE...inventory upgrades. That's P2W, because now I can store more before selling off items for room. It's very minor but technically still gives me an advantage.))
This is like DLC. People generally didn't mind it and now it's been taken 'a bit too far' in the opinion of many.
...whelp, welcome to the Age of Cash Shops.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
-Semper ubi sub ubi!
always wear underwear
I'M NOT PAYING MONTHLY.
I'M NOT SPENDING MY MONEY ON A GAME.
I DON'T WANT THE GAME SELLING ANYTHING A PLAYER CAN USE (OR WILL FEEL COMPELLED TO BUY)
I WANT PAYING CUSTOMERS TO = NON PAYING SQUATTERS.
Dang, I'm not going to say I'm indifferent. The bottom line is the game isn't a charity. You guys hornswaggled them into not charging you a monthly fee so that you could convince your mom to pay for the game one time because you told her there's no monthly fee.
Now that the release is over and the developers are back to eating ramen noodles you are upset that they finally put something in their 'item mall' that people will actually feel compelled to buy.
Gosh guys, the 15 bucks a month thing was great, it's 15 bucks, that's less than your water bill and you probably feel like you need the mmo you're addicted to more than water anyway. This is a self inflicted tragedy.
As it relates to BDO, I'm not playing this broken game because you guys broke it, it was broke before it was released. When you do a Buy to Play you put all your eggs in the release basket and there is ABSOLUTELY NO motivation for the developers to keep you around, just keep selling boxes, and when that dries up they either move on or make the game have a bunch of money barriers like the aforementioned Star Trek Online. Or they start an in house gold selling operation like BDO did LOLOL!
COME ON AND SAY IT GUYS, GIVE US OUR SUBSCRIPTIONS BACK.
so that covers exp, which covers costumes, which are the bulk of whats available on the in game market place. most full sets cost about 22 bucks usd. they sell for 20mill in game. i can make 20 mill in 1 full gaming day going full grind. some can do it quicker with sales, and trade, some longer, but my point is, if you want to blow 22 bucks for a 20 mill return, go for it. ill buy it. i wont sell it, but ill take advantage of you. and thats not pay to win. its sanctioned in game gold (silver) selling.
now if you sold boss armor for pearls, thats pay to win. guaranteed upgrade stones? thats pay to win.
its a slippery slope for the powers that be. if this is a success they may think about increasing revenues, in the short term, by offering true p2w items and gears, not realizing they killed their game in the process. i hope they dont do that. but for now, i see no issue with this.