It's almost like you think computer games invented the concept of putting time into something in order to get better at it. Last time I checked the same concept works in playing musical instruments, sports and just about anything else in life you want to mention. Throwing money at a piano is never going to do much for you unless you also put in the time to become excellent.
Absolutely not. What the leveling process introduced to gaming was the ability to gain a permanent advantage by investing time and not effort.
When I was learning to wrestle or play football they didn't say "Go tackle this dummy 1000 times" and call it good. They gave me specific drills to build up strength in specific areas and I had to work freaking hard at it to really get good. If I was to step back onto the mat of field after over ten years of absence from them, I would get my butt creamed by people who have been training hard every day in recent years.
In other words time + effort are what make you good at a musical instrument, sport, and anything else in life you want to mention. The level of effort put in being directly proportional to what you get out of it. If you don't get home from football practice with every muscle in your body on fire feeling utterly exhausted, you probably aren't getting better.
Time is what makes you level up. Effort is irrelevant.
Time + effort is what makes you get better at MOBAs. Time + effort is what makes you get better at FPSs. Time + effort is what makes you get better at Darksouls.
Time is what makes you get better at EQ, WoW, and all their spawn. Effort isn't even a factor really.
Time + effort is what makes you get better at MOBAs. Time + effort is what makes you get better at FPSs. Time + effort is what makes you get better at Darksouls.
Time is what makes you get better at EQ, WoW, and all their spawn. Effort isn't even a factor really.
Totally disagree. You're just parading your bias. Everything you mention has about the same learning curve.
Besides, if your argument is that you hate vertical progression, what the heck are you doing playing MMORPGs in the first place? Sometimes I wonder just what the heck some of you are doing in this site since you seem to dislike basic concepts such as character progression.
It's what these games are all about and surprisingly, some of us like it that way.
But it makes more sense to me now. You don't see a difference between spending time or spending money because it's for something you dislike anyway. Strange though that your focus is still on reaching for the top elite levels.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Not at all strange. It's not even so much that I don't want to invest time. It's that in most games I push myself, and that's how I end up doing well. I'm not content to sit there and do the same content at the same difficulty for forever. I'm amping up the difficulty and number of opponents, PvPing, reading articles and watching videos on areas I'm weak in. Reconfiguring keybinds. Adjusting my build. My growth is time + effort so I compensate for lack of time by putting in more effort.
In most MMOs I'm finding the most efficient way to get XP, gear or gold and doing it over, and over, and over, and over. It doesn't challenge anything but my patience. It's funny anyone would think the deserve to reach the top elite levels through such a monotonous, brain dead, three-year-old-could-do-it process.
The learning curve isn't anywhere near the same. And it's not like I could make it the same by doing things differently. I'm held back on the learning curve because the game simply gates me from doing what I want to do with levels. There is no way to level up nearly as fast as a driven player can learn in any MMO.
Also MMO =/= grind. They equal Massively Multiplayer Online games. I enjoy the massively multiplayer aspect.
RPG =/= grind. They equal Role Playing Games. I enjoy the role playing aspect.
That's why I enjoy MMORPGs and hold out hope of what they can be, and what some of the games on the horizon like Star Citizen in Crowfall that promise less grind can be. I want an MMO. I want an RPG. I want an MMORPG. I just don't want the damn grind and massive stat gap that's seeing the number of players in this genre decline steadily every year.
In most MMOs I'm finding the most efficient way to get XP, gear or gold and doing it over, and over, and over, and over. It doesn't challenge anything but my patience. It's funny anyone would think the deserve to reach the top elite levels through such a monotonous, brain dead, three-year-old-could-do-it process.
You do realize being a grinder, which is what you're describing, is a choice right? You're going for maximum efficiency. Not everyone does that.
And yeah, it's monotonous as fuck - it's why I never do it.
Maybe that's who you guys who don't mind P2W so much are: you're the driven grinders who want to get highest faster. I get good eventually in the MMOs I play but I'm never there first.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It's not even about getting the highest fastest. It's not that I want to reach the top first.
It's that canned quests that say "Kill X Goblins", "Pick Up X Goblin Spear Heads", "Deliver a Letter Because I'm a Lazy *****" aren't fun for me after the first five minutes. Neither is grinding on mobs. Challenging dungeons are fun. PvP is fun. Building cities is fun. Guild politics are fun.
But none of that crap is fun if there is a huge stat gap preventing you from doing it.
I don't grind to reach the top first. I grind so that that I'm no longer forced to do content I don't find enjoyable in order to be efficient or even capable of doing the content I do. I'm not racing anyone else, just my own boredom.
Unfortunately most MMOs are so bad my boredom wins that race.
It is not terrible for you because you can choose not to play. In fact, if it is terrible for you to play such a game, why would you? You are not into self-torture, are you?
So at worst, for you, is as-if these game does not exist. Why would that be terrible for you?
If it were the exception to the rule it wouldn't be terrible... but it's not. It's the norm today. And that's besides the point. If your whole point is that any pay model is good because people can just not play the game... well thanks for such an enlightening comment. That would explain why I'm on this forum instead of playing F2P game 23893721. What's your excuse?
again, why would it be terrible for you if you are playing these games? Why would you feel terrible if whales (not YOU) pay to not play the game? You are not the one paying to not play? It is a free world.
I don't need an excuse. forum pvp is obviously more fun than MMOs (well, at least traditional ones, with the broadened definition, it may be different), and i go where the fun is.
See .. not terrible of me at all since I am not playing them. Or the one i enjoy freeriding on ... (Marvel Heroes) .. is fun when i play it (though it gets a bit old lately). If i am having fun, FREE, what is so terrible?
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Control?
And I thought he was just giving his opinions, just like you, me and the rest of us.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
....
And I thought he was just giving his opinions, just like you, me and the rest of us.
ignore post I read wrong.
how hard is it to add a friggin delete feature to a forum page?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Control?
And I thought he was just giving his opinions, just like you, me and the rest of us.
Yeah, it's getting crazy in here. All those points are either the symptoms or the fruits of the core problem. It still comes down to monetizing progression. The problem of "time vs money vs time with money" will never get solved in mmos because the core device being leveraged is progression, specifically how to make players pay for it.
Or just accept that development studios and publishers are going to leverage both against the playerbase to squeeze them for as much money as possible.
I don think that is what nariusseldon is getting at.
What he is getting at is if another persons method of playing doesnt directly impact yours then what is the problem?
now a developer making it nearly impossible to progress in a game without paying for in game items and features is a different story but I think most F2P are not that hardlined but even if they are if you end up paying the same as you would outright then its not exactly the end of the world
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Control?
And I thought he was just giving his opinions, just like you, me and the rest of us.
Yeah, it's getting crazy in here. All those points are either the symptoms or the fruits of the core problem. It still comes down to monetizing progression. The problem of "time vs money vs time with money" will never get solved in mmos because the core device being leveraged is progression, specifically how to make players pay for it.
Or just accept that development studios and publishers are going to leverage both against the playerbase to squeeze them for as much money as possible.
I just want to be entertained and have fun for a reasonable price. I'm fortunate, I have and enjoy many ways to be entertained for for my dollar.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Control?
And I thought he was just giving his opinions, just like you, me and the rest of us.
Yeah, it's getting crazy in here. All those points are either the symptoms or the fruits of the core problem. It still comes down to monetizing progression. The problem of "time vs money vs time with money" will never get solved in mmos because the core device being leveraged is progression, specifically how to make players pay for it.
Or just accept that development studios and publishers are going to leverage both against the playerbase to squeeze them for as much money as possible.
I don think that is what nariusseldon is getting at.
What he is getting at is if another persons method of playing doesnt directly impact yours then what is the problem?
now a developer making it nearly impossible to progress in a game without paying for in game items and features is a different story but I think most F2P are not that hardlined but even if they are if you end up paying the same as you would outright then its not exactly the end of the world
Yeah, that's not what narius is about at all, but it's still the root problem of their argument, of this whole fiasco regarding monetizing online gaming.
let me try to simplify it.
1. whales do not affect your game play. 2. if whales did not exist you would have to pay for your game play 3. if you do not like that system I would highly suggest you consider the fact that NOT A SINGLE GAME I PLAY HAS THAT and maybe open your mind to other options.
is what I am saying somewhat clear or is it still muddy?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
I gotta ask, are you playing such games? I mean lets be honest here.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
I gotta ask, are you playing such games? I mean lets be honest here.
I have played them but not for long. Neverwinter, SWL, etc. Not to mention the many games that keep in-game ads to a minimum such as ESO that just pop up ads for special sales once a day or so.
We don't all just play obscure indie games exclusively Sean. So unlike you, we're discussing actual things we experience and don't just interject ourselves into every thread for the hell of it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
I gotta ask, are you playing such games? I mean lets be honest here.
I have played them but not for long. Neverwinter, SWL, etc. Not to mention the many games that keep in-game ads to a minimum such as ESO that just pop up ads for special sales once a day or so.
We don't all just play obscure indie games exclusively Sean. So unlike you, we're discussing actual things we experience and don't just interject ourselves into every thread for the hell of it.
lol..
but the games you DO play you COMPLAIN about the games I play I DONT complain about.
is the pattern sinking in yet? your actually not being the cool kid on the block by playing games you complain about while attacking the people and the games that people like me are NOT complaining about
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
I gotta ask, are you playing such games? I mean lets be honest here.
I have played them but not for long. Neverwinter, SWL, etc. Not to mention the many games that keep in-game ads to a minimum such as ESO that just pop up ads for special sales once a day or so.
We don't all just play obscure indie games exclusively Sean. So unlike you, we're discussing actual things we experience and don't just interject ourselves into every thread for the hell of it.
lol..
but the games you DO play you COMPLAIN about the games I play I DONT complain about.
is the pattern sinking in yet?
Ignorance is bliss?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Except in your world Frodo spent $100 for a Elvish Cloak instead of actually earning it by interacting with Galadriel. For another $75 he bought a vial with the light of the Evenstar...
yeah so? Some whales want to buy virtual trinkets to subsidize others. I say let them. In fact, it is a free world. If the dev and whales agree this is want they want to do, what is it to you?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
I gotta ask, are you playing such games? I mean lets be honest here.
I have played them but not for long. Neverwinter, SWL, etc. Not to mention the many games that keep in-game ads to a minimum such as ESO that just pop up ads for special sales once a day or so.
We don't all just play obscure indie games exclusively Sean. So unlike you, we're discussing actual things we experience and don't just interject ourselves into every thread for the hell of it.
lol..
but the games you DO play you COMPLAIN about the games I play I DONT complain about.
is the pattern sinking in yet?
Ignorance is bliss?
ok think that thru a bit.
are you suggesting that I should play games you play so I can have something to complain about or are you suggesting that if you dont play the games I play then you will be ignorant of not complaining?
i mean for love of fuck balls seriously people!
STOP PLAYING THOSE GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Most people don't know (or remember) the history of game monetization. When online games became commercial, people were paying by the minute for connection, as well as by the minute for the game service. As technology improved, the monthly sub (for both connection and service) came along as the 'better deal'.
MMORPG's were a good fit for time based payments (as compared to other online games) because they had an artificial improvement structure (levels) that allowed for in game development separate to user development. What we call MMORPG's were developed around the concept that time spent in the game = content. However, as the technology continued to mature, as did the features offered in thees games, the perceived value of time spent decreased, and the perceived value of other things increased (first power, then prestige). Business models changed to better monetize based on the customer demand for these things. At this time, many/most MMORPG's don't require payment up front for time spent. Most focus their monetization on either selling power, or prestige.
Think of it this way. You used to pay for time, to increase power, to get prestige. Then they lowered/stopped charging for time, and sold power, so you could get prestige. Now they give you time for free, let you earn power, but sell prestige. Not much has really changed overall, what has changes is which components of the service you get for free, and what you have to pay for.
Big games are interested in exploitation, marketing, getting people to think the best games are only the ones with all the news, and keeping their investors who dont give a damn about games happy.
Smaller firms do it for the love of the work.
people who are displeased with their gaming experience should be more open minded and trust me, I know from personal experience what its like to ignore the non-large games and I know the reasons for it as well. I used to be there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Keep it quiet and away from the game? Not much of a problem.
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
Why is it a problem if you are not playing the game?
There are plenty of entertainment that does not involve cash shops. Some single player games. Neflixs. Heck, reading novels. How about movies and anime? Have you heard of those?
You really don't know much about entertainment if you think the shopping channel is the only alternatives to MMOs. How about just forum pvp? If you post here, you should know about that well.
No. Not playing games you don't like is bliss. Is that so hard to understand?
If you have a simple mind where everything is either black or white as you seem to have, understanding would be very easy.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
When I was learning to wrestle or play football they didn't say "Go tackle this dummy 1000 times" and call it good. They gave me specific drills to build up strength in specific areas and I had to work freaking hard at it to really get good. If I was to step back onto the mat of field after over ten years of absence from them, I would get my butt creamed by people who have been training hard every day in recent years.
In other words time + effort are what make you good at a musical instrument, sport, and anything else in life you want to mention. The level of effort put in being directly proportional to what you get out of it. If you don't get home from football practice with every muscle in your body on fire feeling utterly exhausted, you probably aren't getting better.
Time is what makes you level up. Effort is irrelevant.
Time + effort is what makes you get better at MOBAs. Time + effort is what makes you get better at FPSs. Time + effort is what makes you get better at Darksouls.
Time is what makes you get better at EQ, WoW, and all their spawn. Effort isn't even a factor really.
Besides, if your argument is that you hate vertical progression, what the heck are you doing playing MMORPGs in the first place? Sometimes I wonder just what the heck some of you are doing in this site since you seem to dislike basic concepts such as character progression.
It's what these games are all about and surprisingly, some of us like it that way.
But it makes more sense to me now. You don't see a difference between spending time or spending money because it's for something you dislike anyway. Strange though that your focus is still on reaching for the top elite levels.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
In most MMOs I'm finding the most efficient way to get XP, gear or gold and doing it over, and over, and over, and over. It doesn't challenge anything but my patience. It's funny anyone would think the deserve to reach the top elite levels through such a monotonous, brain dead, three-year-old-could-do-it process.
The learning curve isn't anywhere near the same. And it's not like I could make it the same by doing things differently. I'm held back on the learning curve because the game simply gates me from doing what I want to do with levels. There is no way to level up nearly as fast as a driven player can learn in any MMO.
Also MMO =/= grind. They equal Massively Multiplayer Online games. I enjoy the massively multiplayer aspect.
RPG =/= grind. They equal Role Playing Games. I enjoy the role playing aspect.
That's why I enjoy MMORPGs and hold out hope of what they can be, and what some of the games on the horizon like Star Citizen in Crowfall that promise less grind can be. I want an MMO. I want an RPG. I want an MMORPG. I just don't want the damn grind and massive stat gap that's seeing the number of players in this genre decline steadily every year.
And yeah, it's monotonous as fuck - it's why I never do it.
Maybe that's who you guys who don't mind P2W so much are: you're the driven grinders who want to get highest faster. I get good eventually in the MMOs I play but I'm never there first.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's that canned quests that say "Kill X Goblins", "Pick Up X Goblin Spear Heads", "Deliver a Letter Because I'm a Lazy *****" aren't fun for me after the first five minutes. Neither is grinding on mobs. Challenging dungeons are fun. PvP is fun. Building cities is fun. Guild politics are fun.
But none of that crap is fun if there is a huge stat gap preventing you from doing it.
I don't grind to reach the top first. I grind so that that I'm no longer forced to do content I don't find enjoyable in order to be efficient or even capable of doing the content I do. I'm not racing anyone else, just my own boredom.
Unfortunately most MMOs are so bad my boredom wins that race.
I don't need an excuse. forum pvp is obviously more fun than MMOs (well, at least traditional ones, with the broadened definition, it may be different), and i go where the fun is.
See .. not terrible of me at all since I am not playing them. Or the one i enjoy freeriding on ... (Marvel Heroes) .. is fun when i play it (though it gets a bit old lately). If i am having fun, FREE, what is so terrible?
You don't have to play ball, and you don't control what others like.
And I thought he was just giving his opinions, just like you, me and the rest of us.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
how hard is it to add a friggin delete feature to a forum page?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
What he is getting at is if another persons method of playing doesnt directly impact yours then what is the problem?
now a developer making it nearly impossible to progress in a game without paying for in game items and features is a different story but I think most F2P are not that hardlined but even if they are if you end up paying the same as you would outright then its not exactly the end of the world
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
1. whales do not affect your game play.
2. if whales did not exist you would have to pay for your game play
3. if you do not like that system I would highly suggest you consider the fact that NOT A SINGLE GAME I PLAY HAS THAT and maybe open your mind to other options.
is what I am saying somewhat clear or is it still muddy?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Make the promotion and sales of shit an unavoidable part of the game with in-game ads, broadcast announcements, loot crates that drop off mobs, etc? That's a problem unless your idea of good entertainment is the shopping channel.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
We don't all just play obscure indie games exclusively Sean. So unlike you, we're discussing actual things we experience and don't just interject ourselves into every thread for the hell of it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
but the games you DO play you COMPLAIN about
the games I play I DONT complain about.
is the pattern sinking in yet?
your actually not being the cool kid on the block by playing games you complain about while attacking the people and the games that people like me are NOT complaining about
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
are you suggesting that I should play games you play so I can have something to complain about or are you suggesting that if you dont play the games I play then you will be ignorant of not complaining?
i mean for love of fuck balls seriously people!
STOP PLAYING THOSE GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
MMORPG's were a good fit for time based payments (as compared to other online games) because they had an artificial improvement structure (levels) that allowed for in game development separate to user development. What we call MMORPG's were developed around the concept that time spent in the game = content. However, as the technology continued to mature, as did the features offered in thees games, the perceived value of time spent decreased, and the perceived value of other things increased (first power, then prestige). Business models changed to better monetize based on the customer demand for these things. At this time, many/most MMORPG's don't require payment up front for time spent. Most focus their monetization on either selling power, or prestige.
Think of it this way. You used to pay for time, to increase power, to get prestige. Then they lowered/stopped charging for time, and sold power, so you could get prestige. Now they give you time for free, let you earn power, but sell prestige. Not much has really changed overall, what has changes is which components of the service you get for free, and what you have to pay for.
Big games are interested in exploitation, marketing, getting people to think the best games are only the ones with all the news, and keeping their investors who dont give a damn about games happy.
Smaller firms do it for the love of the work.
people who are displeased with their gaming experience should be more open minded and trust me, I know from personal experience what its like to ignore the non-large games and I know the reasons for it as well. I used to be there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
There are plenty of entertainment that does not involve cash shops. Some single player games. Neflixs. Heck, reading novels. How about movies and anime? Have you heard of those?
You really don't know much about entertainment if you think the shopping channel is the only alternatives to MMOs. How about just forum pvp? If you post here, you should know about that well.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED