When it comes to CoE, I am really am still very much on the fence on the whole Advantage thing, because all of these "advantages" are shared, they are no solitary.
Like for example: a Player buys a Kingdom, which includes an amount of infrastructure like, Roads, Bridges, Buildings, and Natural Resources like Rivers, Trees, Etc, that everyone else in that kingdom gets access to, free of charge, IE: They do not need to pay real money for it. So this King is shelling out Real Cash, for an Advantage that ALL of the citizens get to reap.
Unlike say, Buying a ChainMaile Bikini that keeps their personal nether regions protected from a crotch shot.
However, more people would view buying the Kingdom as P2W, then the Bikini, yet, the Kingdom is a shared investment whereas the bikini is a personal advantage.
Same with this voting for land domain or whatever the hell it turns out to be, I imagine that the King or Queen that gets first pick, which they will pay cash out of pocket for, will opt to go for a ideal plot of land with better natural defenses and more abundant resources, an in doing so, they will confer that Advantage to all their citizens, Everyone Down the Line, from their Nobel's, to city counsel members right down to the pig farmer and peasant, all will be able reap that reward as well, even if they didn't pay a cent of real money for it.
Sure the "King" and other nobel's as well as other positions will be able to charge taxes, which is their right, no matter how they managed to obtain the crown, nor how much they spent to give an advantage to their people. As such, all the money these Monarchs are spending past the purchase of the Crown itself is really money they are giving to their citizens to ensure they have a better place to live.
In that vein, they seem truly Nobel, and worthy of the title.
You are so very close to understanding the logic Caspian has been using to sell this whole concept which is why it's not surprising who agreed with you, they view themselves as some sort of noble servant of people.
Yet like all rulers they really are manipulating the populace for their own self serving interests, even in the real world "evil" tyrants have done "good" things for their populace, i.e. Cuba's education system, but this doesn't make them "noble."
In North Korea the "masses" can be seen wildly cheering their leader on, yet those of us on the outside say to ourselves, "wait, wut?" (Same goes for present US leadership I suppose)
Eerily similar parallel with COE (or other KSer games) where the fans really don't question the leadership, and vigorously defend actions (or inactions) those not so invested cannot fathom.
While the money spent might benefit the populace somewhat, doesn't change the fact they begin the game with significant advantage, regardless whether or not they can hold on to.it.
Caspian even said one reason for weighting the voting as he did was to give preference to those with the most to lose, so it makes sense to let them have the greater say.
If you are invested in this game for but a pittance, your opinion matters very little. Heck he wasn't even willing to give the recently created free accounts a token amount of influence, say like one or even ten, which might have made those folks feel like they were part of things.
Instead they are total outsiders with no more relevance than any non customer which is yet another failure by Caspian to really understand how players think.
I know many of you assume I wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to CoE but that is not the case. I have questioned several decisions made over the last three years. The only difference is, instead of coming here with assumptions I first talk to someone on the dev team looking for an clarification and justification, a feature that isn't available upon every game's creation. The transparency of CoE I believe it a double-edged sword because it brings the community and outsiders through the development process and game changes (Which can be twisted in a positive or negative light depending on how it is delivered).
As for understanding the "logic that Caspian sells", I believe I do understand the concept and recognize his passion for creating it. After three years of being part of the CoE community, I do believe with the passion of the team and community both have, CoE has a good chance of seeing the launch. (Only my opinion)
Are players purchasing an Advantageous start? Yes, they are. I agree... Do all players start Exposition on equal footing? No... (What has been considered the world building phase). And it needs to be that way. It creates conflicts which result in stories that other players get involved in (Elyrian Lore), it gives the players something to fight against, or fight for depending on what transpires in the game (Quest lines). Considering there is really nothing else in the game to fight against we only have each other. (World Player Verus Player). It would be pretty boring if these conflicts weren't started through Exposition, and everyone was equal at launch.
Every single member that has purchased an Advantageous start before launch, then only becomes a target once the actual game starts and is launched. Oh and let's not forget those that acquire Talents after launch (No cost, yet could be overpowered and a potential adversary). It is human nature to want what you don't have, and in Elyria, you can scheme to take it. Muahahaha..
Is every single feature going to work exactly as SBS has promised? Probably not, but that is what Alpha and Beta is for. I am sure we will see many more changes before then.
In my opinion, if equality and entitlement is something you are looking for in a game, then CoE isn't for you. No one will be able to control what happens to their characters/possessions once the game starts (after launch) because other players will affect your gameplay/story every step of the way.
Say what you must about how blind I am to what is really going on (Part of the Ivory Tower), but this is my interpretation of what SBS is trying to do and I have never once felt like I was being taken advantage of. Though, I do question potential changes that are questionable!
When it comes to CoE, I am really am still very much on the fence on the whole Advantage thing, because all of these "advantages" are shared, they are no solitary.
Like for example: a Player buys a Kingdom, which includes an amount of infrastructure like, Roads, Bridges, Buildings, and Natural Resources like Rivers, Trees, Etc, that everyone else in that kingdom gets access to, free of charge, IE: They do not need to pay real money for it. So this King is shelling out Real Cash, for an Advantage that ALL of the citizens get to reap.
Unlike say, Buying a ChainMaile Bikini that keeps their personal nether regions protected from a crotch shot.
However, more people would view buying the Kingdom as P2W, then the Bikini, yet, the Kingdom is a shared investment whereas the bikini is a personal advantage.
Same with this voting for land domain or whatever the hell it turns out to be, I imagine that the King or Queen that gets first pick, which they will pay cash out of pocket for, will opt to go for a ideal plot of land with better natural defenses and more abundant resources, an in doing so, they will confer that Advantage to all their citizens, Everyone Down the Line, from their Nobel's, to city counsel members right down to the pig farmer and peasant, all will be able reap that reward as well, even if they didn't pay a cent of real money for it.
Sure the "King" and other nobel's as well as other positions will be able to charge taxes, which is their right, no matter how they managed to obtain the crown, nor how much they spent to give an advantage to their people. As such, all the money these Monarchs are spending past the purchase of the Crown itself is really money they are giving to their citizens to ensure they have a better place to live.
In that vein, they seem truly Nobel, and worthy of the title.
You are so very close to understanding the logic Caspian has been using to sell this whole concept which is why it's not surprising who agreed with you, they view themselves as some sort of noble servant of people.
Yet like all rulers they really are manipulating the populace for their own self serving interests, even in the real world "evil" tyrants have done "good" things for their populace, i.e. Cuba's education system, but this doesn't make them "noble."
In North Korea the "masses" can be seen wildly cheering their leader on, yet those of us on the outside say to ourselves, "wait, wut?" (Same goes for present US leadership I suppose)
Eerily similar parallel with COE (or other KSer games) where the fans really don't question the leadership, and vigorously defend actions (or inactions) those not so invested cannot fathom.
While the money spent might benefit the populace somewhat, doesn't change the fact they begin the game with significant advantage, regardless whether or not they can hold on to.it.
Caspian even said one reason for weighting the voting as he did was to give preference to those with the most to lose, so it makes sense to let them have the greater say.
If you are invested in this game for but a pittance, your opinion matters very little. Heck he wasn't even willing to give the recently created free accounts a token amount of influence, say like one or even ten, which might have made those folks feel like they were part of things.
Instead they are total outsiders with no more relevance than any non customer which is yet another failure by Caspian to really understand how players think.
I know many of you assume I wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to CoE but that is not the case. I have questioned several decisions made over the last three years. The only difference is, instead of coming here with assumptions I first talk to someone on the dev team looking for an clarification and justification, a feature that isn't available upon every game's creation. The transparency of CoE I believe it a double-edged sword because it brings the community and outsiders through the development process and game changes (Which can be twisted in a positive or negative light depending on how it is delivered).
As for understanding the "logic that Caspian sells", I believe I do understand the concept and recognize his passion for creating it. After three years of being part of the CoE community, I do believe with the passion of the team and community both have, CoE has a good chance of seeing the launch. (Only my opinion)
Are players purchasing an Advantageous start? Yes, they are. I agree... Do all players start Exposition on equal footing? No... (What has been considered the world building phase). And it needs to be that way. It creates conflicts which result in stories that other players get involved in (Elyrian Lore), it gives the players something to fight against, or fight for depending on what transpires in the game (Quest lines). Considering there is really nothing else in the game to fight against we only have each other. (World Player Verus Player). It would be pretty boring if these conflicts weren't started through Exposition, and everyone was equal at launch.
Every single member that has purchased an Advantageous start before launch, then only becomes a target once the actual game starts and is launched. Oh and let's not forget those that acquire Talents after launch (No cost, yet could be overpowered and a potential adversary). It is human nature to want what you don't have, and in Elyria, you can scheme to take it. Muahahaha..
Is every single feature going to work exactly as SBS has promised? Probably not, but that is what Alpha and Beta is for. I am sure we will see many more changes before then.
In my opinion, if equality and entitlement is something you are looking for in a game, then CoE isn't for you. No one will be able to control what happens to their characters/possessions once the game starts (after launch) because other players will affect your gameplay/story every step of the way.
Say what you must about how blind I am to what is really going on (Part of the Ivory Tower), but this is my interpretation of what SBS is trying to do and I have never once felt like I was being taken advantage of. Though, I do question potential changes that are questionable!
Well said, thanks for sharing, it is clear you well know the score and what really being attempted.
The ivory tower comments really more directed to the COE forums, the level of back slapping and lack of complaints is almost surreal.
I suspect a combination of the developers outright sarcasm or dismissal and fans furious down voting of posts they hold in contempt have created a weirdly utopian environment that is not at all as it appears.
But as they say in recovery, "keep coming back." Your insight is always appeciated.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When it comes to CoE, I am really am still very much on the fence on the whole Advantage thing, because all of these "advantages" are shared, they are no solitary.
Like for example: a Player buys a Kingdom, which includes an amount of infrastructure like, Roads, Bridges, Buildings, and Natural Resources like Rivers, Trees, Etc, that everyone else in that kingdom gets access to, free of charge, IE: They do not need to pay real money for it. So this King is shelling out Real Cash, for an Advantage that ALL of the citizens get to reap.
Unlike say, Buying a ChainMaile Bikini that keeps their personal nether regions protected from a crotch shot.
However, more people would view buying the Kingdom as P2W, then the Bikini, yet, the Kingdom is a shared investment whereas the bikini is a personal advantage.
Same with this voting for land domain or whatever the hell it turns out to be, I imagine that the King or Queen that gets first pick, which they will pay cash out of pocket for, will opt to go for a ideal plot of land with better natural defenses and more abundant resources, an in doing so, they will confer that Advantage to all their citizens, Everyone Down the Line, from their Nobel's, to city counsel members right down to the pig farmer and peasant, all will be able reap that reward as well, even if they didn't pay a cent of real money for it.
Sure the "King" and other nobel's as well as other positions will be able to charge taxes, which is their right, no matter how they managed to obtain the crown, nor how much they spent to give an advantage to their people. As such, all the money these Monarchs are spending past the purchase of the Crown itself is really money they are giving to their citizens to ensure they have a better place to live.
In that vein, they seem truly Nobel, and worthy of the title.
You are so very close to understanding the logic Caspian has been using to sell this whole concept which is why it's not surprising who agreed with you, they view themselves as some sort of noble servant of people.
Yet like all rulers they really are manipulating the populace for their own self serving interests, even in the real world "evil" tyrants have done "good" things for their populace, i.e. Cuba's education system, but this doesn't make them "noble."
In North Korea the "masses" can be seen wildly cheering their leader on, yet those of us on the outside say to ourselves, "wait, wut?" (Same goes for present US leadership I suppose)
Eerily similar parallel with COE (or other KSer games) where the fans really don't question the leadership, and vigorously defend actions (or inactions) those not so invested cannot fathom.
While the money spent might benefit the populace somewhat, doesn't change the fact they begin the game with significant advantage, regardless whether or not they can hold on to.it.
Caspian even said one reason for weighting the voting as he did was to give preference to those with the most to lose, so it makes sense to let them have the greater say.
If you are invested in this game for but a pittance, your opinion matters very little. Heck he wasn't even willing to give the recently created free accounts a token amount of influence, say like one or even ten, which might have made those folks feel like they were part of things.
Instead they are total outsiders with no more relevance than any non customer which is yet another failure by Caspian to really understand how players think.
The problem here is that you are trying to mix ideology with reality.
First off Being a Nobel ruler does not mean that someone is Ideologically Good. In fact many of the rulers in history that were considered great rulers, had to make some ruthless and hard decisions that cost the lives of a great many people, many of our greatest leaders and rulers fought wars, and in some cases fought in wars.
So, lets not play up some idealism.
Secondly, in a game of Kings and Queens, no.. the pawns and peasants do not have a say. To quote Monty Python "You do not vote for your King"
and since I said first and second, this is the Third point., CoE made no bones about the fact that in this game, there very much will be the have, and the have-nots at the start, people that bought an early advantage, much in the same way people get born into rich families and poor ones. In COE, you can either roll the dice and play with what you get, or bribe the stork to ensure you are born into wealth. In fact that was marketed as a key aspect of the game, so to complain about it seems moot.
And Finally, lets be real, this is the only real way to have the game open launch with actual player driven kingdoms, with players having the roles of monarchs, they will have to have been there before anyone else to set up THEIR Kingdom.
Just saying.
No the game is not fair.. it's not going to be fair.. ever.. but it never said it would be.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
When it comes to CoE, I am really am still very much on the fence on the whole Advantage thing, because all of these "advantages" are shared, they are no solitary.
Like for example: a Player buys a Kingdom, which includes an amount of infrastructure like, Roads, Bridges, Buildings, and Natural Resources like Rivers, Trees, Etc, that everyone else in that kingdom gets access to, free of charge, IE: They do not need to pay real money for it. So this King is shelling out Real Cash, for an Advantage that ALL of the citizens get to reap.
Unlike say, Buying a ChainMaile Bikini that keeps their personal nether regions protected from a crotch shot.
However, more people would view buying the Kingdom as P2W, then the Bikini, yet, the Kingdom is a shared investment whereas the bikini is a personal advantage.
Same with this voting for land domain or whatever the hell it turns out to be, I imagine that the King or Queen that gets first pick, which they will pay cash out of pocket for, will opt to go for a ideal plot of land with better natural defenses and more abundant resources, an in doing so, they will confer that Advantage to all their citizens, Everyone Down the Line, from their Nobel's, to city counsel members right down to the pig farmer and peasant, all will be able reap that reward as well, even if they didn't pay a cent of real money for it.
Sure the "King" and other nobel's as well as other positions will be able to charge taxes, which is their right, no matter how they managed to obtain the crown, nor how much they spent to give an advantage to their people. As such, all the money these Monarchs are spending past the purchase of the Crown itself is really money they are giving to their citizens to ensure they have a better place to live.
In that vein, they seem truly Nobel, and worthy of the title.
You are so very close to understanding the logic Caspian has been using to sell this whole concept which is why it's not surprising who agreed with you, they view themselves as some sort of noble servant of people.
Yet like all rulers they really are manipulating the populace for their own self serving interests, even in the real world "evil" tyrants have done "good" things for their populace, i.e. Cuba's education system, but this doesn't make them "noble."
In North Korea the "masses" can be seen wildly cheering their leader on, yet those of us on the outside say to ourselves, "wait, wut?" (Same goes for present US leadership I suppose)
Eerily similar parallel with COE (or other KSer games) where the fans really don't question the leadership, and vigorously defend actions (or inactions) those not so invested cannot fathom.
While the money spent might benefit the populace somewhat, doesn't change the fact they begin the game with significant advantage, regardless whether or not they can hold on to.it.
Caspian even said one reason for weighting the voting as he did was to give preference to those with the most to lose, so it makes sense to let them have the greater say.
If you are invested in this game for but a pittance, your opinion matters very little. Heck he wasn't even willing to give the recently created free accounts a token amount of influence, say like one or even ten, which might have made those folks feel like they were part of things.
Instead they are total outsiders with no more relevance than any non customer which is yet another failure by Caspian to really understand how players think.
The problem here is that you are trying to mix ideology with reality.
First off Being a Nobel ruler does not mean that someone is Ideologically Good. In fact many of the rulers in history that were considered great rulers, had to make some ruthless and hard decisions that cost the lives of a great many people, many of our greatest leaders and rulers fought wars, and in some cases fought in wars.
So, lets not play up some idealism.
Secondly, in a game of Kings and Queens, no.. the pawns and peasants do not have a say. To quote Monty Python "You do not vote for your King"
and since I said first and second, this is the Third point., CoE made no bones about the fact that in this game, there very much will be the have, and the have-nots at the start, people that bought an early advantage, much in the same way people get born into rich families and poor ones. In COE, you can either roll the dice and play with what you get, or bribe the stork to ensure you are born into wealth. In fact that was marketed as a key aspect of the game, so to complain about it seems moot.
And Finally, lets be real, this is the only real way to have the game open launch with actual player driven kingdoms, with players having the roles of monarchs, they will have to have been there before anyone else to set up THEIR Kingdom.
Just saying.
No the game is not fair.. it's not going to be fair.. ever.. but it never said it would be.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When it comes to CoE, I am really am still very much on the fence on the whole Advantage thing, because all of these "advantages" are shared, they are no solitary.
Like for example: a Player buys a Kingdom, which includes an amount of infrastructure like, Roads, Bridges, Buildings, and Natural Resources like Rivers, Trees, Etc, that everyone else in that kingdom gets access to, free of charge, IE: They do not need to pay real money for it. So this King is shelling out Real Cash, for an Advantage that ALL of the citizens get to reap.
Unlike say, Buying a ChainMaile Bikini that keeps their personal nether regions protected from a crotch shot.
However, more people would view buying the Kingdom as P2W, then the Bikini, yet, the Kingdom is a shared investment whereas the bikini is a personal advantage.
Same with this voting for land domain or whatever the hell it turns out to be, I imagine that the King or Queen that gets first pick, which they will pay cash out of pocket for, will opt to go for a ideal plot of land with better natural defenses and more abundant resources, an in doing so, they will confer that Advantage to all their citizens, Everyone Down the Line, from their Nobel's, to city counsel members right down to the pig farmer and peasant, all will be able reap that reward as well, even if they didn't pay a cent of real money for it.
Sure the "King" and other nobel's as well as other positions will be able to charge taxes, which is their right, no matter how they managed to obtain the crown, nor how much they spent to give an advantage to their people. As such, all the money these Monarchs are spending past the purchase of the Crown itself is really money they are giving to their citizens to ensure they have a better place to live.
In that vein, they seem truly Nobel, and worthy of the title.
You are so very close to understanding the logic Caspian has been using to sell this whole concept which is why it's not surprising who agreed with you, they view themselves as some sort of noble servant of people.
Yet like all rulers they really are manipulating the populace for their own self serving interests, even in the real world "evil" tyrants have done "good" things for their populace, i.e. Cuba's education system, but this doesn't make them "noble."
In North Korea the "masses" can be seen wildly cheering their leader on, yet those of us on the outside say to ourselves, "wait, wut?" (Same goes for present US leadership I suppose)
Eerily similar parallel with COE (or other KSer games) where the fans really don't question the leadership, and vigorously defend actions (or inactions) those not so invested cannot fathom.
While the money spent might benefit the populace somewhat, doesn't change the fact they begin the game with significant advantage, regardless whether or not they can hold on to.it.
Caspian even said one reason for weighting the voting as he did was to give preference to those with the most to lose, so it makes sense to let them have the greater say.
If you are invested in this game for but a pittance, your opinion matters very little. Heck he wasn't even willing to give the recently created free accounts a token amount of influence, say like one or even ten, which might have made those folks feel like they were part of things.
Instead they are total outsiders with no more relevance than any non customer which is yet another failure by Caspian to really understand how players think.
I know many of you assume I wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to CoE but that is not the case. I have questioned several decisions made over the last three years. The only difference is, instead of coming here with assumptions I first talk to someone on the dev team looking for an clarification and justification, a feature that isn't available upon every game's creation. The transparency of CoE I believe it a double-edged sword because it brings the community and outsiders through the development process and game changes (Which can be twisted in a positive or negative light depending on how it is delivered).
As for understanding the "logic that Caspian sells", I believe I do understand the concept and recognize his passion for creating it. After three years of being part of the CoE community, I do believe with the passion of the team and community both have, CoE has a good chance of seeing the launch. (Only my opinion)
Are players purchasing an Advantageous start? Yes, they are. I agree... Do all players start Exposition on equal footing? No... (What has been considered the world building phase). And it needs to be that way. It creates conflicts which result in stories that other players get involved in (Elyrian Lore), it gives the players something to fight against, or fight for depending on what transpires in the game (Quest lines). Considering there is really nothing else in the game to fight against we only have each other. (World Player Verus Player). It would be pretty boring if these conflicts weren't started through Exposition, and everyone was equal at launch.
Every single member that has purchased an Advantageous start before launch, then only becomes a target once the actual game starts and is launched. Oh and let's not forget those that acquire Talents after launch (No cost, yet could be overpowered and a potential adversary). It is human nature to want what you don't have, and in Elyria, you can scheme to take it. Muahahaha..
Is every single feature going to work exactly as SBS has promised? Probably not, but that is what Alpha and Beta is for. I am sure we will see many more changes before then.
In my opinion, if equality and entitlement is something you are looking for in a game, then CoE isn't for you. No one will be able to control what happens to their characters/possessions once the game starts (after launch) because other players will affect your gameplay/story every step of the way.
Say what you must about how blind I am to what is really going on (Part of the Ivory Tower), but this is my interpretation of what SBS is trying to do and I have never once felt like I was being taken advantage of. Though, I do question potential changes that are questionable!
I think my reluctance to believe you is based on the utter lack of holding them accountable when they fail time and time again to produce what they say they will, when they say they will (or reasonably close). Just look at Prelude, SpatialOS, ElyriaMud, VoxElyria... Alpha 1... etc...
Their search on the forums is very poor, but I looked to find a single critical post by you on there about any of these things. I didn't see any. As I said, their forum search function is poor so maybe I just missed them. If so I would love to read a few of those posts where you are questioning them. And by that I do not mean a post that says "These nitwits on MMORPG.COM are saying XYZ..." I mean actually owning the question. And then following up when later what they say is proven wrong...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Secondly, in a game of Kings and Queens, no.. the pawns and peasants do not have a say. To quote Monty Python "You do not vote for your King"
I can agree with you here. Which is why I think the whole "voting" is a waste of time. It does follow the whole game design, higher up the totem pole you are, more say/power that you have. Which is really why they should have just got the dukes/kings together and done their own voting on the maps.
Which Caspian on discord did say something like "We were only going to let count+ vote, but decided to let everyone with IP vote". So seems like they wanted to go with their design, but maybe was scared of the fallout that would create. So now opened it up to everyone, while knowing that it won't matter anyway.
Even as a count myself, with a nice amount of IP. I wouldn't have cared if the kings only voted. Less time wasted on this, more time focusing on pushing out pre-alpha/alpha 1. Getting to the all important domain selection, only thing I really care about coming "soon".
I'm more annoyed at them trying to cover up, like it's some open vote. When really, anyone can see it's those super rich who will be picking. Even if all the commoners got together, it wouldn't do anything.
Yet the interesting thing. They already got the kings together to do lore on each kingdom. No one seemed to care about that. So they really could have just got the kings to only vote again. I doubt people overall would have really cared. Well, before they made such a big deal out of the whole thing.
Secondly, in a game of Kings and Queens, no.. the pawns and peasants do not have a say. To quote Monty Python "You do not vote for your King"
I can agree with you here. Which is why I think the whole "voting" is a waste of time. It does follow the whole game design, higher up the totem pole you are, more say/power that you have. Which is really why they should have just got the dukes/kings together and done their own voting on the maps.
Which Caspian on discord did say something like "We were only going to let count+ vote, but decided to let everyone with IP vote". So seems like they wanted to go with their design, but maybe was scared of the fallout that would create. So now opened it up to everyone, while knowing that it won't matter anyway.
Even as a count myself, with a nice amount of IP. I wouldn't have cared if the kings only voted. Less time wasted on this, more time focusing on pushing out pre-alpha/alpha 1. Getting to the all important domain selection, only thing I really care about coming "soon".
I'm more annoyed at them trying to cover up, like it's some open vote. When really, anyone can see it's those super rich who will be picking. Even if all the commoners got together, it wouldn't do anything.
Yet the interesting thing. They already got the kings together to do lore on each kingdom. No one seemed to care about that. So they really could have just got the kings to only vote again. I doubt people overall would have really cared. Well, before they made such a big deal out of the whole thing.
Personally, I think the biggest shame is all the resources that are going into this. All the time making maps to be voted on, a website to support the vote, rules... bleh. They need to focus on game basics.And thats what I was looking for in my post above. Someone to step up and tell him "Enough is enough!" top adding new stuff... focus on delivering the core basic game. No Plague events, no Map voting website, nothing other than what is core to the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Personally, I think the biggest shame is all the resources that are going into this. All the time making maps to be voted on, a website to support the vote, rules... bleh. They need to focus on game basics.And thats what I was looking for in my post above. Someone to step up and tell him "Enough is enough!" top adding new stuff... focus on delivering the core basic game. No Plague events, no Map voting website, nothing other than what is core to the game.
Yeah that would be nice to see, then watch that post get downvoted to hell and back. Which is one main reason I have changed my tune. I was very much a good little sheep. I liked that they stopped adding stretch goals years back. After being burnt by star citizen. Was a nice change. To then see, they just added them in different things. Like all these events, which they can say it doesn't add on anymore time. But really it's impossible not to.
People on discord did somewhat bring it up during the plague event. Why there was a somewhat backlash at the time. People basically saying they were being punished if they didn't play the event. Most finding it boring. Some communities went so far to then say, they would attack anyone in game not helping, assuming they were active at the time. People complaining to SBS they didn't back them, to play in some stupid event years before launch.
But like most things in this world. The complainers were shut down pretty easily. The whole "you don't have to play it". Much like any other events. I could make a post complaining that map voting is a complete waste of time. I just get people telling me the same line. Of course, many still somehow think the game really is launching next year. Anytime a thread appears of some random asking when the game will come out and people saying realistic guesses of 2020/21/22. Downvoted to hell and back. But someone saying "It's coming out next year". Spam that upvote button!
Secondly, in a game of Kings and Queens, no.. the pawns and peasants do not have a say. To quote Monty Python "You do not vote for your King"
I can agree with you here. Which is why I think the whole "voting" is a waste of time. It does follow the whole game design, higher up the totem pole you are, more say/power that you have. Which is really why they should have just got the dukes/kings together and done their own voting on the maps.
Which Caspian on discord did say something like "We were only going to let count+ vote, but decided to let everyone with IP vote". So seems like they wanted to go with their design, but maybe was scared of the fallout that would create. So now opened it up to everyone, while knowing that it won't matter anyway.
Even as a count myself, with a nice amount of IP. I wouldn't have cared if the kings only voted. Less time wasted on this, more time focusing on pushing out pre-alpha/alpha 1. Getting to the all important domain selection, only thing I really care about coming "soon".
I'm more annoyed at them trying to cover up, like it's some open vote. When really, anyone can see it's those super rich who will be picking. Even if all the commoners got together, it wouldn't do anything.
Yet the interesting thing. They already got the kings together to do lore on each kingdom. No one seemed to care about that. So they really could have just got the kings to only vote again. I doubt people overall would have really cared. Well, before they made such a big deal out of the whole thing.
Personally, I think the biggest shame is all the resources that are going into this. All the time making maps to be voted on, a website to support the vote, rules... bleh. They need to focus on game basics.And thats what I was looking for in my post above. Someone to step up and tell him "Enough is enough!" top adding new stuff... focus on delivering the core basic game. No Plague events, no Map voting website, nothing other than what is core to the game.
AFAIK, Map Selection uses a lot of the same tools and interface that will be used in domain selection. I think map voting is overall pointless as a selling point but I can see it's usefulness in testing the infrastructure for Domain Selection. The last thing SBS needs is a bug/glitch screwing up selection order since that will have an actual effect on peoples investments into the game.
AFAIK, Map Selection uses a lot of the same tools and interface that will be used in domain selection. I think map voting is overall pointless as a selling point but I can see it's usefulness in testing the infrastructure for Domain Selection. The last thing SBS needs is a bug/glitch screwing up selection order since that will have an actual effect on peoples investments into the game.
Wouldn't surname selection been a test for all that? Which at least looked like people got their own windows. All the details we have heard about domain selection. Is people picking in groups. In very short windows. I can't see that not being a mess really, but that's another topic all together.
"Users cannot exchange, buy, or sell their votes. Any users found in violation will be banned from the community."
I wonder if anyone will get busted!
Also, you cannot change your vote once it has been cast. It probably makes sense to hold out on voting until the last day in round 1. However, Round 2 being closed voting, it probably doesn't matter much to wait.
Also, does anyone else find it weird that they assume the Oceanic server players all want to play on an archipelago-style map?
Why not give them the full option of maps? It'd be like saying American servers can only select from continent-style maps. Or the North Pole server can only have maps with snow biomes.
I'm sure there is some reason for it that I missed, but I just found it weird.
Also, does anyone else find it weird that they assume the Oceanic server players all want to play on an archipelago-style map?
Why not give them the full option of maps? It'd be like saying American servers can only select from continent-style maps. Or the North Pole server can only have maps with snow biomes.
I'm sure there is some reason for it that I missed, but I just found it weird.
It's cause we have a way way smaller population than the other servers. So everything has less here. As every other server has 6 kingdoms, within each kingdom 12 duchies, within each duchy 24 counties. OCE has 4 kingdoms, 8 duchies, 16 counties.
The only thing I'm finding really bloody annoying, I'm apart of the OCE kingdom that came up with the idea, well more the king did. Which SBS loved it naturally. While I wasn't a fan of it at first. Playing on tiny, possible duchy size islands grew on me. Now that same king and everyone else within the kingdom. Plans to vote on the map with the biggest single island. Why they suggested it in the first place is beyond me. Which doesn't help me feel where it's even more pointless. They seemed to get really pissed at me, when I suggested I wouldn't be voting with them either. God forbid I vote on a map I like..
Also, does anyone else find it weird that they assume the Oceanic server players all want to play on an archipelago-style map?
Why not give them the full option of maps? It'd be like saying American servers can only select from continent-style maps. Or the North Pole server can only have maps with snow biomes.
I'm sure there is some reason for it that I missed, but I just found it weird.
It's cause we have a way way smaller population than the other servers. So everything has less here. As every other server has 6 kingdoms, within each kingdom 12 duchies, within each duchy 24 counties. OCE has 4 kingdoms, 8 duchies, 16 counties.
The only thing I'm finding really bloody annoying, I'm apart of the OCE kingdom that came up with the idea, well more the king did. Which SBS loved it naturally. While I wasn't a fan of it at first. Playing on tiny, possible duchy size islands grew on me. Now that same king and everyone else within the kingdom. Plans to vote on the map with the biggest single island. Why they suggested it in the first place is beyond me. Which doesn't help me feel where it's even more pointless. They seemed to get really pissed at me, when I suggested I wouldn't be voting with them either. God forbid I vote on a map I like..
Ahh gotcha. If that's what the majority of you guys want then that makes sense.
Sucks your mates are trying to pressure you into voting a particular way though. I know round 2 is a closed vote. Will the be publishing how everyone voted after the election is over? If not, you could always not tell them how you voted.
Ahh gotcha. If that's what the majority of you guys want then that makes sense.
Sucks your mates are trying to pressure you into voting a particular way though. I know round 2 is a closed vote. Will the be publishing how everyone voted after the election is over? If not, you could always not tell them how you voted.
Well that's the thing, a few kings came up with that map idea. At the time, there were many people that didn't like it. Which once again just shows that SBS only cares what the high rollers think.
If my kingdom really doesn't like it and kick up a stink about it. Probably just leave. Doesn't really bother me too much. Of course they will have no idea who I am in game anyway. Not stupid like others to share my character name.
ugh procedural... I've yet to see a completely procedural world that is anywhere near a good hand crafted world. I could see it as the base they start from but if they are using multiple different procedural worlds, with their budget they aren't going to have alot of time to do any handcrafted finish work.
I think they'd be much better off letting people vote on one map for all servers, and then spend all the time they can making it a truly good world.
Off discord via Caspian "No two servers will have the same maps going into round 2".
I can't see that ending well. While sure there is 20 maps to vote from, seems that could still happen. Seems like it's something that should be decided in round 2. Or two servers top map in round 1, may not even get pick by any server the end of round 2.
Off discord via Caspian "No two servers will have the same maps going into round 2".
I can't see that ending well. While sure there is 20 maps to vote from, seems that could still happen. Seems like it's something that should be decided in round 2. Or two servers top map in round 1, may not even get pick by any server the end of round 2.
That's interesting. So of the 20 maps in round 1, only 5 get eliminated? It definitely makes the voting more important now, since not only do you have to win the vote against other people on your own server. You also have to win the vote against all the other servers.
I can see people getting upset by this. "The Luna server's top 3 maps, were out influenced by the other servers picks, so now in round 2, Luna gets to pick from the maps voted 4-8."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm unclear why it would be an issue for two servers to have the same map. (Or if it's even an issue. )
Understanding COE is hard.
I'm in complete agreement here. Why not let every sever just get to vote on all 20 and get their pick regardless of the other severs choices?
My only guess is because they want cartographers to have at least some semblance of being necessary. If every sever had the same exact map and people uploaded maps to the internets... Well there goes your profession!
Also let's not forget, Ghettomaster can still trump in with the rest of his hard earned monies and buy all 5 of the best maps! Leaving the other two servers with options 5-15 to fight over
I'm unclear why it would be an issue for two servers to have the same map. (Or if it's even an issue. )
Understanding COE is hard.
I'm in complete agreement here. Why not let every sever just get to vote on all 20 and get their pick regardless of the other severs choices?
My only guess is because they want cartographers to have at least some semblance of being necessary. If every sever had the same exact map and people uploaded maps to the internets... Well there goes your profession!
Also let's not forget, Ghettomaster can still trump in with the rest of his hard earned monies and buy all 5 of the best maps! Leaving the other two servers with options 5-15 to fight over
Because no two dimensions are indentical, everyone knows that!
Can't have one server world be the same as the other. Take a look at the current genre landscape; it's quite obvious having the same game world for all your servers is a death setnence.
Comments
I know many of you assume I wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to CoE but that is not the case. I have questioned several decisions made over the last three years. The only difference is, instead of coming here with assumptions I first talk to someone on the dev team looking for an clarification and justification, a feature that isn't available upon every game's creation. The transparency of CoE I believe it a double-edged sword because it brings the community and outsiders through the development process and game changes (Which can be twisted in a positive or negative light depending on how it is delivered).
As for understanding the "logic that Caspian sells", I believe I do understand the concept and recognize his passion for creating it. After three years of being part of the CoE community, I do believe with the passion of the team and community both have, CoE has a good chance of seeing the launch. (Only my opinion)
Are players purchasing an Advantageous start? Yes, they are. I agree... Do all players start Exposition on equal footing? No... (What has been considered the world building phase). And it needs to be that way. It creates conflicts which result in stories that other players get involved in (Elyrian Lore), it gives the players something to fight against, or fight for depending on what transpires in the game (Quest lines). Considering there is really nothing else in the game to fight against we only have each other. (World Player Verus Player). It would be pretty boring if these conflicts weren't started through Exposition, and everyone was equal at launch.
Every single member that has purchased an Advantageous start before launch, then only becomes a target once the actual game starts and is launched. Oh and let's not forget those that acquire Talents after launch (No cost, yet could be overpowered and a potential adversary). It is human nature to want what you don't have, and in Elyria, you can scheme to take it. Muahahaha..
Is every single feature going to work exactly as SBS has promised? Probably not, but that is what Alpha and Beta is for. I am sure we will see many more changes before then.
In my opinion, if equality and entitlement is something you are looking for in a game, then CoE isn't for you. No one will be able to control what happens to their characters/possessions once the game starts (after launch) because other players will affect your gameplay/story every step of the way.
Say what you must about how blind I am to what is really going on (Part of the Ivory Tower), but this is my interpretation of what SBS is trying to do and I have never once felt like I was being taken advantage of. Though, I do question potential changes that are questionable!
The ivory tower comments really more directed to the COE forums, the level of back slapping and lack of complaints is almost surreal.
I suspect a combination of the developers outright sarcasm or dismissal and fans furious down voting of posts they hold in contempt have created a weirdly utopian environment that is not at all as it appears.
But as they say in recovery, "keep coming back." Your insight is always appeciated.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First off Being a Nobel ruler does not mean that someone is Ideologically Good. In fact many of the rulers in history that were considered great rulers, had to make some ruthless and hard decisions that cost the lives of a great many people, many of our greatest leaders and rulers fought wars, and in some cases fought in wars.
So, lets not play up some idealism.
Secondly, in a game of Kings and Queens, no.. the pawns and peasants do not have a say. To quote Monty Python "You do not vote for your King"
and since I said first and second, this is the Third point., CoE made no bones about the fact that in this game, there very much will be the have, and the have-nots at the start, people that bought an early advantage, much in the same way people get born into rich families and poor ones. In COE, you can either roll the dice and play with what you get, or bribe the stork to ensure you are born into wealth. In fact that was marketed as a key aspect of the game, so to complain about it seems moot.
And Finally, lets be real, this is the only real way to have the game open launch with actual player driven kingdoms, with players having the roles of monarchs, they will have to have been there before anyone else to set up THEIR Kingdom.
Just saying.
No the game is not fair.. it's not going to be fair.. ever.. but it never said it would be.
My job is done here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Their search on the forums is very poor, but I looked to find a single critical post by you on there about any of these things. I didn't see any. As I said, their forum search function is poor so maybe I just missed them. If so I would love to read a few of those posts where you are questioning them. And by that I do not mean a post that says "These nitwits on MMORPG.COM are saying XYZ..." I mean actually owning the question. And then following up when later what they say is proven wrong...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Which Caspian on discord did say something like "We were only going to let count+ vote, but decided to let everyone with IP vote". So seems like they wanted to go with their design, but maybe was scared of the fallout that would create. So now opened it up to everyone, while knowing that it won't matter anyway.
Even as a count myself, with a nice amount of IP. I wouldn't have cared if the kings only voted. Less time wasted on this, more time focusing on pushing out pre-alpha/alpha 1. Getting to the all important domain selection, only thing I really care about coming "soon".
I'm more annoyed at them trying to cover up, like it's some open vote. When really, anyone can see it's those super rich who will be picking. Even if all the commoners got together, it wouldn't do anything.
Yet the interesting thing. They already got the kings together to do lore on each kingdom. No one seemed to care about that. So they really could have just got the kings to only vote again. I doubt people overall would have really cared. Well, before they made such a big deal out of the whole thing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People on discord did somewhat bring it up during the plague event. Why there was a somewhat backlash at the time. People basically saying they were being punished if they didn't play the event. Most finding it boring. Some communities went so far to then say, they would attack anyone in game not helping, assuming they were active at the time. People complaining to SBS they didn't back them, to play in some stupid event years before launch.
But like most things in this world. The complainers were shut down pretty easily. The whole "you don't have to play it". Much like any other events. I could make a post complaining that map voting is a complete waste of time. I just get people telling me the same line. Of course, many still somehow think the game really is launching next year. Anytime a thread appears of some random asking when the game will come out and people saying realistic guesses of 2020/21/22. Downvoted to hell and back. But someone saying "It's coming out next year". Spam that upvote button!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/news/28985/Announcement-of-Map-Voting
I found this rule interesting:
"Users cannot exchange, buy, or sell their votes. Any users found in violation will be banned from the community."
I wonder if anyone will get busted!
Also, you cannot change your vote once it has been cast. It probably makes sense to hold out on voting until the last day in round 1. However, Round 2 being closed voting, it probably doesn't matter much to wait.
Why not give them the full option of maps? It'd be like saying American servers can only select from continent-style maps. Or the North Pole server can only have maps with snow biomes.
I'm sure there is some reason for it that I missed, but I just found it weird.
The only thing I'm finding really bloody annoying, I'm apart of the OCE kingdom that came up with the idea, well more the king did. Which SBS loved it naturally. While I wasn't a fan of it at first. Playing on tiny, possible duchy size islands grew on me. Now that same king and everyone else within the kingdom. Plans to vote on the map with the biggest single island. Why they suggested it in the first place is beyond me. Which doesn't help me feel where it's even more pointless. They seemed to get really pissed at me, when I suggested I wouldn't be voting with them either. God forbid I vote on a map I like..
Sucks your mates are trying to pressure you into voting a particular way though. I know round 2 is a closed vote. Will the be publishing how everyone voted after the election is over? If not, you could always not tell them how you voted.
If my kingdom really doesn't like it and kick up a stink about it. Probably just leave. Doesn't really bother me too much. Of course they will have no idea who I am in game anyway. Not stupid like others to share my character name.
I think they'd be much better off letting people vote on one map for all servers, and then spend all the time they can making it a truly good world.
I can't see that ending well. While sure there is 20 maps to vote from, seems that could still happen. Seems like it's something that should be decided in round 2. Or two servers top map in round 1, may not even get pick by any server the end of round 2.
Its theoretically possible that the smallest (by influence) server could head to voting round 2 without ANY of their top voted maps.
Why does this guy over complicate everything?
*By smallest I mean EU, NA West and NA East. OCE is actually lucky because they truly will get the server they vote for.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I can see people getting upset by this. "The Luna server's top 3 maps, were out influenced by the other servers picks, so now in round 2, Luna gets to pick from the maps voted 4-8."
Understanding COE is hard.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CoE is very complex and unlike any other game.
CoE backers: "Well, Kings had guards in real life! It makes sense. You don't understand the vision."
My only guess is because they want cartographers to have at least some semblance of being necessary. If every sever had the same exact map and people uploaded maps to the internets... Well there goes your profession!
Also let's not forget, Ghettomaster can still trump in with the rest of his hard earned monies and buy all 5 of the best maps! Leaving the other two servers with options 5-15 to fight over
Can't have one server world be the same as the other. Take a look at the current genre landscape; it's quite obvious having the same game world for all your servers is a death setnence.